Licensing Sub-Committee - Tuesday 24 June 2025, 7:00pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Licensing Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 24th June 2025 at 7:00pm 

Agenda

Slides

Transcript

Map

Resources

Forums

Speakers

Votes

 
Share this agenda point

So the meeting is now live and we'll move to the first item formally and that's to
appoint a chair which I believe members have unanimously supported for Councillor Marshall
to take that role but just for the public meetings that confirmed Councillor Humphries?
Fine with me, agreed. Thank you and Councillor McLeod will be joining
via mobile and he can hear the meeting and so Councillor Marshall it's over to you now,
thank you very much for sharing.
Sorry, I'm muting my phone which I hadn't done.
Just hope that's not going to affect the...
Right, sorry, I just put my phone on
theatre. Is that okay, Maurice? Can you still hear me?
Yes, okay. Sorry if you will get disturbed during the meeting.
So, good evening everybody. My name is Councillor Norman Marshall, and I am chairing this meeting this evening.
This is being held as a remote meeting of the Licensing Subcommittee. It's being webcast.
Mr Novak, if you could...
I wonder if that's called you like if you guys hear me yeah if you could just
mute and it's your chance to speak to somebody yeah sorry I'm not a problem
thank you and you will have a chance to speak and will indicate thank you very
much mr. Nova so I'm just going to invite the other attendees to introduce
themselves um counselors officers applicants and representations um so we have here um
council humphries evening everybody uh legal advisor um um and um council mccloud
councilman cloud here from the park ward good evening um and uh council mr flowers michael
from Democratic Services. Thank you and then Miss Hopkins. Julie Hopkins, Licensing Officer.
Thank you and finally as applicants and representations, Steve Novak,
if you could unmute and introduce yourself.
Sorry was that me? Yes, I am Stephen Novak, the owner and operator of Canard Battersea.
Great, thank you very much indeed.
So, I think, are there any apologies for absence?
No, we're all here I think.
And declarations of interest for any items on the agenda?
Any items of personal interest? No.
Gender item 4, then.
We will now consider the application for a variation of a premises license in respect to the premises known as HANA.
281 Lavender Hill and an SW11 1 LP and I now invite the licensing officer to introduce
the application. Thank you Councillor. Piedy Battersea Limited has applied to vary the
premises licensing respective Hannah 281 Lavender Hill. The applicant is applying to extend
the hours for the provision of regulated entertainment recorded music by one hour until 2am on the
hours for the provision of regulated entertainment for live music by three
hours until 2 a .m. on the morning following Fridays and Saturdays. Also to
extend the hours for the sale of alcohol for consumption on the premises by one
hour until 2 a .m. on the morning following Fridays and Saturdays.
They're also applying to extend the opening times by one hour on Fridays and
Saturdays until 0230 hours. I'll pass two in the morning. The existing and proposed
licenceable activities and the hours are laid out in appendix C to the report. The application
was advertised as required under the legislation. A site notice was displayed from the 24th
of April 25 and the newspaper advert was put in the Wimbalden and Wandsworth Times on the
This results in the receipt of two representations from other persons opposing the application.
No representations were received from any of the responsible authorities.
Copies of the representations have been provided to the applicant and to members of the licensing
subcommittee.
The applicant has not offered any additional conditions on this variation application,
so if granted, all the existing conditions attached to the current license will still
apply.
A copy of the existing license with conditions is included in the bundle provided.
The options open to the licensing subcommittee are that you could grant the application as
requested, modify the conditions of the license or alter or omit a condition or add a new
one or reject the whole or part of the application if it considers such steps to be appropriate
in order to promote the licensing objectives.
Councillors, I have no other matters to raise, but would be happy to answer any questions
you may have. Thank you very much. Councillors, do we have any questions for the officer?
Not at this stage, thank you. None for Mr Humphreys. And Councillor McLeod?
Yeah, yeah, just a very quick one if I may. I just want to confirm in my head, this is just
extension of hours, isn't it? So if that's the case, is this still within our set of licensing
hours? Because normally I would expect the representations from the police, environmental
health and people like that, because they're not there. Is this within our normal, still within
our licensing normal licensing rates? Yes, yes, it's in the policy hours.
Yeah. Okay, I just want to clear my head. Thank you. I have no questions. The papers all seem
very clear, so essentially this is bringing the hours up to 2 a .m. for all forms of activity at
the premises, and we've had two representations from members of the public or other bodies.
Is there anything else? Do we come on to the representations?
I don't know. I don't think there's anything any clarification we need from the officers at that
stage. So I think I now move on to invite the applicant. So this is Heidi Battersea Limited
represented by Mr Stephen Novak to address this subcommittee and you've got five minutes to tell
about this application please.
I will try and move around a little bit. I will speak up a little bit.
I hope you can hear me. Can you hear me quite clearly or not?
Yeah, the background noise over there is making it a little bit hard.
Okay, cool. One second. Can you turn the music off, please? Turn the music off, please.
So I'm a licensing hearing. I know it will affect you. I apologise. I'll be done soon. I hope.
my apologies. Turn the music off please. Off now. Now. Now. Thank you. Sorry about that.
Can you hear me okay? Very clearly, yes. It's very important. They will turn it off. I'm
in Stanley's of Streatham, another pub I own in Streatham. Okay, so we have been trading
I had a back to sea for five years now. That was fairly difficult. But for the past two
years, we were trading it late. And I'll tell you the full background of it. I think that's
important. We were trading late and we did get some noise complaints two years ago. We
had a noise abatement order against us. We then put some significant soundproofing in
for the flats above and I purchased one of the flats above. There's another flat that
is not owned by me that is above and we've been trading for the past two years post that
noise abatement rumor with no complaints whatsoever. However that's not entirely true because we
have had, I have recently due to the success of Ride Music there, I have recently put a
a guy in the beer garden. About four weeks ago I got a guy in the beer garden on a Thursday night
and we got complaints immediately from the neighbors. That was eight o 'clock on a Thursday
night and I stopped doing that immediately. This Saturday just gone I put a guy in the beer garden
at one o 'clock Saturday afternoon and we did get complaints immediately and we stopped
doing it immediately. The residents of Eccles Road and Llanding Hill have no qualms in communicating
with me at all of re -mailing coming in and I'm very conscious of upsetting their lives.
We have however traded the inside of the pub for two years now
to 1 a .m. without one single noise complaint and
I feel that the two representations that we made are in anticipation of the problem rather than a problem that exists
if you understand my perspective.
The noise team has not made a recommendation against this out of country
the police have not raised an application, uh, representation against this application.
I, you know, we trade, we trade the site responsibly and, uh, and I'll reference the
application, uh, the representations on, on one page. The pavement outside has, has got,
I admit, it's sometimes thinking, we clean that once a fortnight.
The people leaving at one o 'clock and disrupting other people, well, I believe that will dissipate if we have the extra hour.
people will leave gradually rather than abruptly leaving at one o 'clock. One o 'clock is not
a normal time for young rebels to be leaving establishment. If it were given to a team
feel it would have dispersed slower. But essentially we've been trading since 1am to 1am for two
years without a single complaint. I believe that the representations are sort of in anticipation
of a problem that currently doesn't exist. And I feel that we have traded that establishment
for two years without a single one's complaint. And I think the next round will make no difference
to that. If someone is being kept up at one o 'clock, they're being kept up at two o 'clock.
But they're not being kept up at one o 'clock. No one has ever suggested, no one has ever
this and I assure you those residents know how to contact me and everyone has my phone number
in detail with anything that strips them at all and I have done when I thought well I can spin
a busker in the afternoon and I stopped that immediately you know could you hear that okay?
Yes Mr Novak we could hear that and thank you for that detailed account of all the measures
that you've taken to adapt your business practices to neighbours and residents.
I just want to ask councillors if they have any questions for you.
I can't see anything on the floor. Please, Councillor McLeod, do you have any questions for the...
I just wanted to clarify the bit about you want to carry on until two o 'clock because
that allows people to disperse more gradually.
Is that what the applicant was saying?
That seems a bit, yeah, I didn't really follow that logic.
So the question, the question for Councilor Cloud
as restated in case it was a bit unclear
because of the noise that the applicant had said
that moving the closing time till two o 'clock
would result in instead of people leaving
in a large group at one o 'clock,
they would leave in a sort of more of a drip feed until two o 'clock, which is a more standard time, according to the applicant, for people to end their evening amongst the types of customers that he has.
And so he'd actually anticipate less of a surge of people leaving at one o 'clock. Is that correct, Mr Novak? Is that what you're saying?
That is what I suggested, yes.
Yes, you can.
That answered your question, Councillor McLeod.
Did the applicant say yes?
Yes, he did.
Okay, so in that case, the follow -up question is why does it seem that all happens, that
people just pick up until two o 'clock and then part out at 2am rather than 1am?
I'm going to paraphrase what I think I heard Mr Novak say, which is that it's sort of more like
custom and practice amongst people that of the age of his sort of most of his clientele
to carry on and past one o 'clock. One o 'clock is early for them to be finishing their evening's
entertainment and therefore if it closes at one o 'clock they are being sort of ejected before
they're ready to leave so they're leaving en masse whereas if you extend it until later
that would then mean that some people would leave at once on 1 15 so on 30 and so on and
so forth but mr Novak can just confirm this is have I got have I got that correct mr Novak
that's exactly what I suggested yes there's a confirmation for mr Novak my interpretation
is correct yes
so if there are uh i don't i don't have any questions
um there's a question from council humphries apologies
thank you very much indeed yes council humphries
thank you sir yes i just wanted some clarity you you did refer mr novak to
some issues you've had when you were doing entertainment in the garden area. I just wanted
to clarify that that's not part of what you're applying for tonight. We're talking about
inside, are we, late on night? You have to clear the outside space by a certain time,
is that right?
Make no mistake, I have no intentions of putting any entertainment outside again. It clearly
causes the residents significant distress. And further to which we have, I have noticed
that obviously the popularity of the venue is it's called this year. I'm not an idiot,
I'm 30 years in this business. We now do not let customers out. We have a license for the pavement
to trade the pavement on Lavender Hill till well beyond 11 o 'clock. No one is allowed to drink
outside now till 11 o 'clock. We were finding issues with the Balkan people and I felt it was
unsafe. So we would clear all the tables outside the front of the venue now facing Lavender Hill,
Not not all the beer garden is clear
The beer garden faces whether complaints are from is always cleared at 930 without fail every night of the week
We have now decided through our
Defending just to ensure that I don't set anybody nobody's allowed
outside to drink
11 p .m. And they're only allowed outside to smoke
I felt that going outside to drink was causing some congestion on the pavement and potentially
have led to, well, worst case scenario, someone falling into the street and getting hit by
a car, you know, it needs potential.
But also, opening and closing the front door, I felt was causing some noise leakage and
letting people in and out all the time.
And I'm conscious that that's an issue.
again, that isn't an issue for the residents that have complained, that is an issue for
the residents of Bothell and we've had no complaints from them.
Valid, I own one of the flats above, so that's unlikely to be a complaint from me, but we've
had no complaints from anybody whatsoever in the immediate flats of the business.
Thank you.
Thank you for that. That's helpful. One further one if I might. I just wanted to ask, yes,
obviously as you say, it's reassuring what you're saying and obviously you've been in
business a long time. You understand how these things work. So I'm sure Mr Novak you can
understand the nervousness of your neighbours of extending the life you've stood to. And
Just for the reassurance of any of those residents listening in, perhaps you could give a little bit of detail about what measures you've got in place for when, for this birth and such like are they currently at one or what you're proposing to do at two o 'clock just to make sure that that's an orderly process at that time of night.
Absolutely, thankfully the live music has been very successful. So we are obliged by
the law, by the license to have two door staff until 1am at the minute. We've already, for
the past four weeks, I think possibly longer, we've had four door staff. The plan has been
and have been implemented, closing a member of the door stands on the apex of the, I think
you probably all know the apex of where we are and it's that sort of opposite as there
and the people that can choose to go obviously down to Clapham Junction or Thecald Road towards
the problem. Not many people do that, most people just get a taxi from outside. I purposely
further to noticing this one complaint from Ephraim's role, whichever one mentioned people
walking past this, and I've stationed a doorman there who requests that they are quiet and he's
there to half an hour after dispersing and the customers are generally receptive to it.
know the customers it's amazing to me compared to what it used to run from 30 years ago.
Clearing my beer garden at half nine is so easy now everyone knows the rule.
30 years ago clearing a beer garden at half nine would have people just like look at you like you were on crack.
You know so I think you know people are people know the game and uh and hopefully I can't
I can't suggest every junk and fool would behave their self on the way home.
I purposely positioned a dorm and they're requesting that they are quiet should they go there.
There's very few people who go down Eccles and Lavender Hill.
A lion's share of them getting an Uber which is straight out the front of the park.
Okay thank you very much.
Mr McLeod, Councillor McLeod.
Thank you. First off, I want to say that I'm quite easily reassured by someone's
I want to check it because the drinking time is losing time. I know I'm sort of fixated.
Does that not mean that people should be thinking towards the end? I'm really concerned about
this outpouring, you know, just moving from one till two. I'm really concerned about that
because the is there would the applicant um consider closing for drinks you know in time
for there to be clear up time and and time for dispersal so it's so it's ordered rather than
sort of a a guillotine
sorry that broke up quite heavily um the question let me just restate it because i can probably
here clearly. Councillor McLeod is saying you very much appreciate the evidence that
you stated in your statements of your concern for residents projections. But he remains
very concerned about an outflux of people at two o 'clock and wonders whether it would
be better for the sale of alcohol to stop at some time before two o 'clock to make more of a
tapered ending rather than a sudden guillotine of all activity at two. Have I got that correct?
Yes right so that's the question Mr Novak. Would you think...
I'm not entirely sure that that achieves anything for me. If I put it off at 1 .30, what I'm trying to do is suffering.
What this will mean is there's two more live musicians paid every Friday and Saturday nights.
you know if i get another half an hour then there is that you know um and i don't know
i don't know the benefit of that at the end of the day the one o 'clock the one o 'clock situation
causes no problems at the minute that i've been made aware of therefore i don't see why a two
o 'clock situation would cause any first or a half one situation there's currently no situation that
anyone has complained about.
So I don't, I mean, I can meet you halfway,
but what is the point of that?
You know, if it's half one, it's one o 'clock,
half one, and two o 'clock, it's, you know,
the only commercial reality for me is that at two o 'clock,
I can employ another live musician twice a week,
and to cut it short, makes me think,
make the situation any better for anyone. If they were to be woken up, they'd be woken up at half
one as opposed to two. They're not being woken up.
Correct. I think just to clarify Councillor McLeod's question, it's not that he wants the
music to stop at half past one, for example, but the sale of alcohol to stop at half past one. I
I understand that but I can't play live music to people and not sell them alcohol. They would not enjoy that and there is no commercial point for me to do it.
Are there any commonamorphosis about this issue? Is this something where there's any practical experience that we've got about this?
I'm asking the officers, the council officer who evaluated your application whether we
have experience of this kind of request from other applications to
To extend hours?
No, to have a last orders please before closing time.
Well I think they are asking for that because they are asking for alcohol until 2 and then
the 30 minute drinking up time after the turquoise.
Yeah so they'd close at 2 .30 in the morning.
Right, so that is pretty much it.
So people would be leaving the premises at 2 .30?
The premises were closed at 2 .30 so people naturally would have their last drink at 2 .00
and consume it for 30 minutes.
And the music would stop at 2 .00 whether it was recorded or live.
Yes.
And the last drink would be sold at 2 .00 and have half an hour to finish up their drinks.
for what it's worth as soon as the music is finished the lights go up the music goes off
and and they are made to feel very uncomfortable but my staff have no desire to entertain them
any longer. I think that certainly helps clarify things in my mind um yes councilman cloud
Thank you, that makes more sense to me now.
Good.
So I think there are no more questions for the applicant.
I don't think we've got any of the representations here are they Mr Flowers?
Thank you chair, that's just to confirm there's no representations in attendance but obviously
for any public watching, councillors will take into account their written representations
when they make their decision.
Thank you. So I think what happens now is that, electronically speaking, we leave the
room and go into private session.
Sorry. Sorry. So the applicant will have now a chance to provide some closing remarks if
want to which kind of two to three minutes and then we would go into that closing stage chair.
Yeah sorry um so yeah but this is your chance to if there's anything that's been
no um i think i've i've made my my points clear um and uh
I hope you agree with me. It's as simple as that really. Like I say, live music needs
places in London and we're doing well with it in Hannah and we're doing well with it
without upsetting anybody. It is only the anticipation of upsetting people that is upsetting
two beaten teams. And the noise team always has the last laugh. As soon as the noise team
comes down on me, no matter what license you give me, I have to bottle. So I very much
appreciate you giving me the chance to perform professionally and deliver a good product
and feature.
I think that's an important point you're making is that whatever license you get, the noise team will still have the option to investigate relevance complaints and ask you to comply with adjust. Is that correct?
The noise team are far more scary than you, Felt, but thank you very much.
I think I'll probably take that as a compliment.
So I think then we've thank you, I just kind of thank Mr Novak.
We're getting into it.
Do we come back into this room to announce or do we, this is the end of the public meeting?
Yes, Chair, would you like me to clarify to Mr Novak the next steps for you or?
Yes, I'd like to clarify to all of us what's going to happen next.
Thank you.
Mr Novak, this would then close the public portion of the meeting and what that means is
the public meeting will end and yourself and the licensing officer will be able to leave the
meeting entirely. Councillors, the legal advisor Mr Bishop and myself will go into a private area
where a decision will be made and obviously they'll discuss everything that's been
raised here and in the report and then a decision will be relayed to you within five working days.
and that will be done electronically and so if you can keep an eye on your email around that time
and that that's it I believe from that but thank you obviously to yourself and to everyone for
attending the public part of the meeting. Cool so thank you thank you very much folks and I will
get on with mic up please.
Thank you.
It's time to say goodbye.
It's time to say goodbye.
Thank you. Bye -bye.
Thank you.
Bye -bye.