Children's Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Wednesday 25 June 2025, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Children's Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Wednesday, 25th June 2025 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

Good evening everybody and welcome to this children's overview and scrutiny committee
this evening.
I know it is very, very warm so I wanted to say throughout the committee meeting do get
up, get water, go and have a blast of the air con over there if you feel like you're
wilting and we will just carry on.
I know how uncomfortable it can get.
So my name is Councillor Sheila Boswell and I am the chair of the Children's
Overview and Scrutiny Committee. I'm going to call your names in alphabetical
order and switch on your microphone so that we can hear you on the webcam.
Councillor Annan, I think we have apologies.
Councillor Burchill. Good evening everybody.
Councillor Crivelli.
Good evening everybody.
Councillor Davies.
Good evening.
Councillor Dobras, we have apologies.
Councillor Jaffray.
Good evening.
Councillor Osbourne.
Good evening everybody.
Councillor Osbourne representing Tooting Broadway Ward.
Councillor Owens.
Good evening Councillor Owens representing Northcott Ward.
Councillor Sweet, absent. Apologies. Thank you very much, Councillors.
I would also like to welcome the cabinet member for children, Councillor Judy Gasser, if you
would like to say a few words, Judy. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor
Boswell. Thank you. I'm delighted to be back in this room with this group of people.
I know most of you, looking forward to getting to know the rest of you, and I know this is a group of people that is so dedicated and passionate about doing everything we can for the children in our borough.
And it's part of a wider team, isn't it? We have a whole team in Children's Services that are striving to make sure we do everything we possibly can to support our children to thrive, to play, to be the best that they can be.
And I'm really, really pleased to be a part of that again. I'll leave it at that.
Thank you very much, Judy, Councillor Gasser.
I'm also going to take this opportunity to thank Councillor Kate Stock, our previous
cabinet member, for all the wonderful work that she did.
While she was cabinet member, really mission -led, and you see the results of that actually in
the KPI paper, how much has been achieved of what Kate put in place.
So if we could just have that in the minutes, please,
that the committee sends thanks to Councillor Kate Stock.
And I would also like to congratulate Rashid Pendry,
Director of Practice Children's Services,
on receiving and being honored with an OBE.
I know that Rashid, you would say this is for everyone in the children's team, and it's
lovely, and it's lovely for Wandsworth Council.
And this is also sadly Rashid's last overview and exclusionary committee, because he's moving
on with a new appointment as Director of Children's Services in Solihull.
Yes.
So thank you so much for everything you've done for the children in Wandsworth.
Right, so we start this evening, I'd like to start off by celebrating the election of our new Youth Mayor,

1 Declarations of Interest

Kwazi Adjikum and Deputy Youth Mayor, Sofia Dyson.
Their election is an important part of our commitment to putting children and young people at the heart of our decision making.
Krasi and Sofia are both passionate about uniting young people.
I'm really, really keen on the issues of mental health in young people,
career opportunities and inclusion.
And everyone will be excited to follow what they do through the year.
They are our second cohort of youth mayors.
And then last week we launched the Year of Play.
I don't know if any of you were lucky enough to come along, but I was there where the fountain
courtyard was turned into the most wonderful play area.
The fountain, the water there was used for water play for the children with Hook the
Duck and I think it is probably never ever experienced since it was built in 18, whatever
it was, such a thing.
but it was lovely to see the children enjoying it so much.
And thank you to everybody who made that happen.
So the Year of Play is a year -long celebration of play
and how crucial it is for children and adults,
our well -being, relationship building.
And I'm really proud that we are giving it the significance
that it absolutely deserves.
and I think this year of play is going to be a tremendous success.
So, moving to what we have on the agenda this evening,
previous committees have revolved heavily around budgets and performance,
and that is a very important part of our function,
and that is something that we're going to continue tonight.
The papers highlight the Department's commitment to robust financial management
and collaboration to deliver for all our children and our young people
in circumstances that we find ourselves in which are way beyond the boundaries of Wandsworth and the control of this council.
And as we move to the papers, especially the first paper, I think if we could just all bear in mind that we have a shared ambition for all our children and young people.
And at the end of the day, that is what really matters that we do our absolute best for them
in this increasingly volatile financial climate.
Okay, declarations of interest.
Are there any declarations of interest?
No.
Cue minutes.

2 Minutes, 11th February 2025

Is that a minute's agreed from the meeting of February 25?
Thank you.
So we can move to our first paper, which is schools finance.

3 Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG) Recovery Strategy. Paper No. 25-223)

Georgia's services department has continuously shown resilience and adaptability in managing
its resources.
But despite this, the financial position of the dedicated schools grant is a sobering one,
and you've all read these papers, and you've all seen what is there.
The challenges of a statutory framework that incentivizes schools and parents to reach for
an EHCP, an education, health, and care plan to ensure that children with SEND have their needs met.
and an environment of increasing demand at a time of impact from so many outside pressures,
the results of COVID and socio -economic challenges as well.
Exacerbate the challenge and let's all bear that in mind.
So do we have any questions on this paper?
It is paper number 25 to 33, the dedicated schools grants recovery update.
Rex, Councillor Osborn.
Yes, pull that towards me, that's better, yes.
We've obviously had a challenging year in this area of work.
Things were going well for a year or two and now we're faced with something quite different.
Across the board, several of our committees are facing all sorts of difficulties.
This is one of the most serious, but all sorts of difficulties because of one reason.
It's not the only reason, but one reason is the demographic change that we're facing in the borough.
I don't think anybody anywhere quite understands that demographic change yet.
I think it's too early to say what's happening.
But my guess is that's one of the things that's putting pressure on our service in this area.
Can you say in some detail what one of the officers tell us what we think is driving,
for example, the growth in EHCPs at the moment, putting the kind of pressure that we're seeing
on this area of our work.
When in the background, school roles are falling, and yet we've got this EHCP pressure on,
sorry to keep using all these initials, education and healthcare plan, pressure on what we're doing.
I'll take that one, thank you.
I think it's evident that birth rates globally, not just nationally, are falling significantly,
which is impacting school roles, as you've said.
I think linked to this is a recognition that more families are now facing socioeconomic
deprivation that is impacting on children's health, their well -being, and their education.
Increases in EHC needs assessments is actually a result of an increase in need.
You know, that's what's happening and this is a national picture.
Recent data shows a 69 % increase nationally in EHCPs under fives between 2019 and 2023.
And there are three broad areas for this.
One is children whose early childhood was affected by pandemic, by the lockdown.
Another is growth in the profile of needs that mirrors what is being seen in the wider SEND trends.
Also communication and interaction needs, so around social communication needs.
So they're the three broad areas that we're sort of seeing.
There is clearly a correlation between deprivation and send and obviously our
NIPA project that we've introduced is targeted at settings with that high
deprivation. Children with or from sorry economically deprived families and they
don't have the same access to reading materials, resources, space and sometimes
parental time as well to aid their learning journey. So the drive to actually reduce the
HCPs I think now needs to be considered more widely given these different factors because
it is no longer education alone. I think also it's important to say that in a wider sense
a number of parents lodging an appeal for increased provision including specialist schools
with privately commissioned legal representation also continues to increase.
And this type of support can only be secured by parents who have the means to secure that legal representation
and that is causing inequity within the current system.
And I think it's important to say that actually Dame Christine Lenahan, the DfE Strategic Advisor for SEND,
has actually acknowledged this and hence the DfE are actually looking to address it.
Thank you very much.
Councillor Correlli.
Thank you for your answer there.
I just wanted to touch upon something that you just mentioned there.
The DfE are in effect looking at the HCP system as a whole.
I think there's been a suggestion that the government's going to try and propose some
sort of alternative to the EHCP system, either trying to significantly narrow the scope of
EHCPs or replace them all together.
I just wanted to hear what your view would be, because if EHCPs are significantly restructured
or indeed replaced, schools may potentially be expected to provide more support at an
earlier stage, but doing that without the backing of a formal sort of plan, are we prepared
for that? Can we rise to that challenge?
Yeah, I mean I think it's difficult to say at the moment because actually there hasn't
been as much as there's been indications of suggestions, nothing has actually been confirmed
yet and we have had regular meetings with the DfE, actually our AD for Centered Inclusion
actually has a meeting with Dame Lenahan next week, so we may have some more detail from that.
I think you're right. I think any change that comes will need, will be part, there'll be a
major consultation around that and I think that that will include parents, that will include
schools. You know, I mean our approach has always been or has been for a number of years now in
terms of addressing this about the right support at the right time without the need for a plan.
So our schools are already on that journey with us.
Now, like you said, any change is going to have to involve them.
We're going to have to think very carefully about what the implications of that are.
But because we don't have any detail, we can't really second guess at the moment what that is going to look like.
But I think we will have to think about resourcing.
We saw it last time when we moved from statements to EHCPs, that shift.
We had to change from one template to another within a two year period.
that was heavily resource driven and that took a lot of work.
So I think because we're engaged in that conversation with the DFA at the moment and we will feed this information back,
I think collectively they'll be thinking very carefully about what that new reform looks like.
I have Councillor Osborne next and then Councillor Herring, Councillor Burchill and Councillor Ains.
Yes, if I can, I have a question but it actually relates to something which Councillor Crivelli
said.
I want to pick up on something there.
First of all, the point about unsure just yet what the governance response is going
to be.
But Councillor Crivelli mentioned how the balance between how councils and schools handle
EHCPs may come into question.
And I think it's right to say that, I think I'm pleased to say that Wandsworth Council
is resisting a tendency which you find I think in some local authorities to push the responsibility
onto schools and push up their deficit rather than the Council's deficit.
Whereas I think Wandsworth is looking at a more balanced, but balanced approach on that.
And I think that's important.
And that means we still have to focus on what we do about EHCPs themselves.
And I mean, it strikes me that we as a council are investing in projects,
which aim to reduce the reliance on EHCP further down the line.
And therefore reduce the deficit for everybody, schools, council, everybody.
My question though is how confident are we that that's being successful?
And is there any measure, do we know that a child getting that kind of intervention
rather than an EHCP is a child that would have ended up in receipt of one of the plans
in any case?
Yeah, it is a balancing act.
It's system leadership.
We have to juggle that challenge of supporting our schools through a tough inflationary environment.
Some councils haven't given their schools any uplifts.
We've had to top our brakes on definitely not at the top of the benchmarking and not
at the bottom.
We're near the middle.
We try to support our schools on a fine line of having enough resources to support the
children that they have while also ensuring our side of the ledger is supported as well.
And that is a challenge, and especially in the last couple of years with high inflation,
it has been particularly.
And our schools really have worked with us incredibly, incredibly well through that period.
Independent providers have asked for a lot higher increases than our mainstream schools.
On the evidence of our support working in schools, our NIPAs are one of our biggest
intervention projects.
We do work with the schools and the settings
to identify those children we think, or they will say,
would have received an EACP.
So we get that evidence from the source.
We then track those children for two years
after that haven't received an EACP, who
we think the intervention has made an impact on,
because they haven't received an EACP.
And we believe that they would have,
through that engagement with the schools, for two years
to see what has happened.
and I think it's only 6 % have gone on after two years.
Lisa might correct me, is that right?
Yeah.
Yeah, just to add on that, I mean,
usually we've done some historic modeling,
and previously about 45 % would have gone on to have EHCPs.
And out of the cohort of 108 children on the NIPRA project,
we only had seven that went on to get EHCPs.
So significant reduction in what we would have seen previously
had we not put that intervention in place.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Halleck, could you tell us what NIPA, the acronym, what that is?
Very good, yes.
Apologies.
Nursery Inclusion Project for All.
Thank you very much.
Nursery Inclusion Project for All.
That tells us exactly what it's doing.
Great.
Okay, Ms Haroon.
Thanks for sharing such a detailed report.
However, I'm not sure that the deficit is just mainly because of ESCP or it's because
of Family Act 2014 or it's because of independent school.
Because what I believe that there are many other reasons, the lack of Peruvian, the root
issue is the insufficient local San Peruvian in the borough, despite you spend 45 million
from the capital fund.
The reliance on independent placement, I think roughly you are spending 40 million annually,
highlights this gap.
So, and secondly, you're saying though, you know, if it doesn't matter though, if
ESCP issue or not issue, the needs are there.
And secondly, the ineffective SANSPORT.
Children on a SANSPORT face higher exclusion rates than those with ESCP.
And I think recently they share the data, 5 % children's are on ESCP and 25 % on SANSPORT.
So, if you can see that, there is more support for the children who are ESCP.
And then there is a push from the parents and the schools to seek ESCP as the only route
to secure the provision.
So, the question is, what plan do you have in place?
Because also the third main thing is accountability.
Because if the ESCP is there, then the parents know that the school and the local authority
is accountable for the provision.
But if you are not putting the accountability for the schools, or even though for the local
authority, then how the parents can trust that you are providing the provision.
So again, even though I remember though, when there is a systematic review by the Ofsted
for the post 16 sport, and they clearly said, a stark disparities, the sport for the children,
children who are on a SANS spot versus the ESEP holders.
So how you are going to fill these gaps?
Thank you, Ms. Harian, and thank you for your scrutiny.
Mr. Halleck, would you like to take that?
Yeah, I'll take it.
I think we're going to break it up a bit and maybe Lisa can help me a little.
On the provision, yes, we have spent 45 million pounds.
We have built a lot of provision.
Some of it is only coming online now, September.
The paddock was, we closed Broadwater, as everyone knows,
that supported the whole area,
stronger school system in Tooting now.
We've taken advantage of that empty building,
lovely outside space to build the paddock.
It comes online soon, that will provide us with,
I think we've got 208 places in the paddock at the moment,
we'll have up to 300.
That is one of our biggest needs.
Granard has been a huge success
for a resource base in the school.
It will have nearly 95 by the time phase three is done.
I think it's got 50 or so at the moment.
Every one of those saves us 40 ,000 pounds a place.
I don't disagree with you.
We're trying to keep children local.
This is the best for the children and for our finances.
And we have extensive amount of provision.
I think we're between the fifth and the eighth
highest number of resource bases
in the country per population as well.
So we've done a lot of thinking and we continue to.
And some of that is policy and some of that we might explore
and later OSCs under the new program.
But we've done a lot in that space.
We have taken advantage of the falling roles
and space in schools.
So one of the reasons we have nearly no schools in deficit
when others have 50 % of their maintained schools
in deficit is because we have resource basis
supporting empty space in schools that helps us,
helps the school, helps everyone, helps the child.
So I think we've done a huge amount of that space.
Yes, I actually do agree.
There's probably a bit more.
The SCMH, as in the paper, there is a gap there still.
19 girls full.
On inclusion, definitely.
But the problem is, if all the money is going into HCPs,
you don't have that money to release into schools.
So somehow we have to reshift.
We are all hoping that something in the white paper
will help us.
There's the rapid response idea, multidisciplinary teams
in schools, because schools are saying training is great,
but we need actual people, but we don't just want one -to -ones.
So, but that has to be funded.
Multitool teams aren't cheap, to say the least.
So how we've siff from all the money going into EACPs to more to,
I have to agree, but it's not a simple solution.
I don't know if Lisa wants to come on accountability.
Yeah, I mean, again, it's working with families and schools
in terms of that confidence in the system.
and we know that that has got to be built.
Our Sended Inclusion team has evolved over time,
and obviously we are now working with schools
in a slightly different way.
I think we're definitely focusing
on the upskilling of staff to think about how they support
needs within the classroom and manage the behaviors
that they're seeing.
So as Michael said, we're sort of looking
at a slightly different approach to how we work with schools.
We are, like you said, we are trying to invest early
to avoid the need for an EHCP,
and I'm looking at things like our transition program.
Again, that is starting already.
We've had a cohort through that,
which again has been avoiding EHCPs
and that has been positive in terms of outcomes,
and obviously we're looking to now do that
from primary into secondary,
but also into reception now as well.
So I think there is a commitment,
there is a focus. I think we have to acknowledge that there is a challenge for schools as well.
But, you know, I think there is absolutely the willingness, the desire, but it's about how we
reroute some of the funding to be able to support earlier, even earlier than we are doing. And again,
I think, you know, we're in the early stages, our early years team has only really evolved over the
last couple of years, and they are really now embedded within this, within our early years
settings and again we're seeing the benefit of that. So it's going to take some time but
I do think that over time if we continue to work on this and we find ways creatively to
put the money in other spaces then we will see a benefit for children and families.
So another actually question. So when the children are on a SENSE sport right somehow
you are focused. If the children aren't sent sports, so without ESCP, they will get the sport right.
However, as I mentioned before, when it comes to suspension and exclusion, and when parents approach to the
unit officers from the local authority, our child is get excluded or suspended or
having difficulties, they said, oh, it's the Academy. We can't do anything.
And because the child hasn't had the ESEP, the school is not sporting,
so then how are you going to help the family and the child?
To be honest, with those families...
I would be interested to know if we have examples of that,
because actually our teams do.
Yes, obviously academies work slightly differently,
but we do provide support through our admissions,
place planning and exclusions team.
So we do have somebody that can support families
So absolutely we would get involved if there were concerns in terms of that.
So as I said, please ask, we need families to reach out to us if they are in need of support.
Yeah, I mean that's the best way is to obviously communicate with us because unless we know then we can't obviously do anything about it.
Thank you Ms. Fenaroli and thank you Ms. Haroon for your scrutiny there.
Okay, Councillor Burchill then, Councillor Owens and Councillor Davies.
Thank you.
Councillor Osborne talked about early intervention and how important it is.
And I think we all totally agree on that.
So I was a little bit concerned, Miss Veneroni, when you were talking about children who are
coming from less privileged backgrounds, being deprived, some of them probably because of
COVID, not getting the support and the language that they should have had.
I don't like the idea of thinking that these children have got a problem that's going to
go up to being an EHCP.
A lot of them, they're not school ready yet, and that has held them back.
And I can see that it's a real problem for the primary schools.
But I'd like to see those children getting the extra support, the send support, to get
them up to their peers because most of them won't have an underlying need that will require
an EHCP.
Or am I wrong?
No, you're absolutely right.
And that is why, again, I mean, in terms of our early years team, which again has developed
over the last few years. You know we are now in we've gone into every single one
of our early year settings so across the board so we are identifying need earlier
but obviously the things that I've mentioned are impacting children and
their development and therefore it's it is about assessing is it a send need or
is it just a lack of development for a number of different reasons and that has
got to be unpicked so that's why our presence in our early year settings and
our early years teams and our advisors going in and working with the professionals in those to identify earlier.
Similarly through our family hubs, we have provision there as well in terms of supporting that identification.
So we will have children that have got additional needs for various reasons.
Our work is about identifying them earlier and then making sure we put that support in place.
Councillor Owens.
Thank you.
That was very interesting.
I was just going to follow on a bit about the early needs setting.
I'm just trying to understand, obviously in the last three years we've talked in this
committee about obviously some of the send money being going into sort of the deprived
schools or the maintained schools that you have, and that's what you're referring to.
The work that wasn't happening before perhaps to try and avoid the EHCPs.
From an academy perspective, because of course you have a lot of schools, primary schools
as well that are academies within the borough and those children are coming through with
the EHCPs and obviously the 40 % rise in the last four years and the 80 % rise in the five
years before. One of the things that's always struck me having gone through that system
within the borough is that the schools very early on, and this predates the pandemic by
a few years, would send out letters to your four or five, about your four or five year
old implying they might have sent because the curriculum had changed and the expectation
was that they should be able to spell at a certain level, etc., etc.
And so a lot of children as well were often August birthdays, for example,
back to Rosemary's point.
So it was just a sort of natural sort of state they were at.
And it was almost as if there seemed to be more money in the system
if you could push your child through not being spelling the right way,
whatever, at five, and that was encouraged.
And I was, it was quite ironic having a child who was hearing impaired,
who I wanted to take out of the CERN system,
that the entire time I was being encouraged with another child who couldn't spell to push them through and I wondered how much you work
with with the academies to sort of try and sort this out. Thank you
Yeah, I mean to be honest, it doesn't matter whether you're an academy
a maintained school. It doesn't matter where you are. The support we provide is universal
and our engagement and our messaging that we have is very very clear in terms of sort of our approach to
meeting the needs of children with SEND.
So I don't think there's any difference at all in terms of the sort of,
I think we've got some of our academies are some of our most inclusive schools.
And actually, some of them will say, will be advocating for
the fact that they don't feel that an EHCP is right for a child.
And that mirrors, as I said, what the DFE advisor is saying is actually that
the EHCP isn't necessarily the right vehicle for all children to receive the support they need.
And the system and the EHCPs at the moment are actually not fit for purpose.
So I think there is a clear acknowledgement of that.
But in terms of our vision and the way we work and how we support children,
it is no different whether they are in an academy or one of our maintained schools.
Thank you, that's very clear.
But I suppose for me it was a concern related to curriculum changes.
All of a sudden these children had to be able to spell the age of six and then they were all in CEN.
I mean that's going back ten years, but thank you.
Councillor Davies.
Yeah, hello, I just wanted to ask a question as well about early intervention and I was
really pleased to hear about the NIPA project, you know, seeing how that is creative, it's
intervention, it's working.
But I wondered about really early intervention and whether you are in touch with health professionals,
like health visitors through the inter -care board for example, to start parents thinking
about the need to talk and develop even as early as pregnancy or in the first year of
life so that people are more attuned and ready once they get to the early years team and
the children centres.
Thank you Councillor Davies, I'll take that one.
Absolutely. So we work really closely with our health visitors, with our midwives, through our family hubs.
We've also got our early years CAMS team that we work very closely with, our family nurse partnership team, and our family hubs as well.
And really thinking about our structured 0 -5 offer through our family hubs as well and our children's centres.
Really think about those early developmental milestones as well.
Obviously, we recently launched the extended the baby box scheme as well in terms of really reaching those families
That we can support earlier on through in their pregnancy
and into those early months as well through that childhood and obviously the baby box offers a whole range of
Resources to support and promote that engagement that play and bonding etc
Councillor Crivelli I
Just wanted to ask the officers a question
And I was quite surprised when I looked at the figures for appeals to the special educational
needs and disability tribunal that nationally over 21 ,000 appeals had been made.
And then I think the last year the rise has been something like 55 percent rise in appeals
made nationally.
I don't know what the figures are for Wandsworth, but I'm sure we're probably quite reflective
of that, that there has been a rise in appeals.
You can tell me that in a minute.
but clearly there's a greater awareness from parents
and educators in general about the needs of SEN
and SEN diagnosis.
I wanted to know if, because we're trying to be in effect
more robust with EHCPs, do we anticipate
that we're gonna have more appeals?
Are we gonna have to grin and bear that,
take it on the chin as it comes?
And we've talked a lot about early intervention.
I assume that that's part of the whole thing
about trying to avoid appeals.
I was just wondering if we could talk a little bit about the work
that Wandsworth does to try and avoid the appeal in the first place
so we don't get bogged down in challenging it legally.
Yeah, I mean, as I said in the first answer,
nationally, appeals are increasing,
and there is almost becoming a bit of a two -tiered system.
As I said, families that can afford the representation
are appealing around placements and provision.
Interestingly, I mean our appeals I think are slightly lower in Wandsworth than nationally.
And I think part of that is because of our approach to,
particularly around new plans is the sort of co -production piece is really,
really important for us so that we work closely with families right the way through the process to understand needs.
And so that they also understand our decision making as well, which is really, really critical.
I think we will go into a pill and we will challenge where we think that it is the right thing in terms of that the child's needs can be met in a setting which may not be the parental preference.
But where we don't believe that's the case, then we wouldn't challenge it.
So I think that there's something for me about that relationship and how we work with families, which is really, really important.
And I suppose one of the things for me is that, you know, our officers have, our coordinators
in SEND, you know, they work with a high number of families.
And so the capacity and the demands are really, really quite high.
So the more that we can reduce any sort of administrative tasks that officers have to
do so they can actually focus on the relational piece is really important.
So we're looking at AI tools at the moment to try and help with drafting of EHCP plans.
Obviously we don't want to lose the quality because our quality is very, very good.
But if we can do that, then actually we can free up some of the time of officers to work on that
relationship, not just with families, but with also with schools as well, so that we can actually
build better relationships and then hopefully stop the sort of number of appeals moving forward
because people have a better understanding around the decision -making
and also that they understand that all of us are coming from the same place and
we want what's right for that child.
Councillor Burchall, you wanted to come in.
Yes, I wanted to come in. Really it was what Ms Haroon had been saying about the
to send children not having a higher number of exclusions than the EHCP.
And there must, there can't be a cut off, you know, a clear line between a child that
needs an EHCP and a child that only needs SEND.
How, how do you cope with this?
I mean, I know that you are trying to cope and you're doing your best, but there shouldn't
be children that are being excluded just because they don't have these letters behind their
name.
I don't think that is the reason.
I think that our exclusion levels are actually lower in Wandsworth than nationally.
So in terms of our position, in terms of exclusions, actually we are doing better than most local authorities.
So even though it might show disproportionately that children on send support are excluded more so than children with EHDPs.
Actually we are talking about much, much smaller levels here.
What it is is about, and we work with schools on this in terms of exclusions is if a school excludes a child,
it's really understanding what sits underneath that.
So if a child has been excluded and it might be around behavior, what sits underneath that behavior?
And it's working with schools, challenging, providing that challenge, working with governors who make decisions around exclusions.
And that is all part of the work that we do within education to make sure that actually any decisions.
And you can't necessarily remove exclusions completely because in some cases, and schools make that decision.
For them, it might be the right decision.
It's making sure that we challenge and that we are convinced that actually the school has considered everything and has made the right decision for that child.
And like I said, we do a lot of that work with our schools and we provide that challenge where we need to.
Thank you very much, Ms. Fanaroli.
If there aren't any more questions, any more questions on this?
No, I think we can probably move on to the next paper.
But I did just want to say, and Ms. Haroon and Councillor Burchell and everybody co -opted,
parent governors, I can hear the exasperation in everyone over this issue.
And it is incredibly difficult to crack.

4 Children's Services End-Year 2024-25 Performance Report (Paper No. 25-224)

So rest assured, this paper that we've had just now, there will be more coming back to
on this and there will be more opportunities for this committee through
scrutiny to really help the officers work this problem but we will do that
together. Thank you. So the next, oh I have to ask you to note that paper for
information. Do we note the paper for information? Thank you. So moving to the
The next paper, which is Wordsworth year -end corporate plan actions and key performance
indicators for 24 -25, paper 25 -224.
Just briefly, this report is received by committee at this point every year.
We do always have this and it's a full progress update.
Unlike some of the other committees, there's a lot of narrative there for everyone to look
at alongside the KPIs, which I think is helpful.
And later on, we'll be talking about the new way
of doing scrutiny, but as we go through KPIs,
you might also like to think about,
we might like to have different KPIs
or offer a different measurement.
And that would be interested to investigate.
But nevertheless, there's lots of good news.
I think really stuck out for me the quality of schools in Wandsworth remains strong and above target with
97 % of our schools rated good or outstanding by Ofsted. That's something to really be
proud of. We've been talking about EHCPs. We have remained in the top 1 % throughout the year
100 % despite rising numbers of requests
and we are having more impact with our
young people and through our
youth service. But we know that there's plenty more to do. So I think Claire O 'Connor is
joining us online. She's on the screen now. Ms O 'Connor, would you like to just do a short
introduction, and then we'll get into questions. Yeah, my pleasure. I'm quite big on the screen
there. So, as the chair has explained, this is the report that you receive every year
to committee. It's a look back on the key performance indicators within the remit of
your committee and also the actions in the corporate plan. I would make councillors aware
that there is quite a comprehensive key performance indicator set that is reported to children.
It's in depth as are the actions and as is the narrative. And that reflects the commitment
to scrutiny from you as Councillors in relation to children's services. So I am here to answer
any questions on how targets were set in the report and obviously officers from children's
are in the room with you to answer any detailed questions around the performance or the actions.
Thank you very much, Mr O 'Connor. Ah, Councillor Davies first up then...
Yes, thank you very much for this report and I really appreciate the detail, the narrative
and just can see just how many actions there have been, you know, accumulating over the
years.
My question is about the child protection plans.
So I can see that the percentage of children who are the subject of child protection plans
for more than two years, it's decreased since this time last year, but it's still above
the target.
So, I'm just wondering, you know, why there is and also about what work is happening to
ensure that timely decisions are made for their children and, you know, and to right
decisions to move them to a better place.
Thank you.
I can take that.
So, we have a very small number of children who are the subject of child protection plans
for longer than we might want.
At the end of the year there were six children, three sibling groups, so three families.
For all of those children there was clear planning around them.
So they weren't the subjects of child protection plans on an ongoing basis without any alternative
planning.
So for some there will be under the court arena in care proceedings and we know that
There is a backlog in the courts at the moment and sometimes these plans are taking longer than we might want to conclude.
And we are working really hard to kind of make sure that whilst they are at home and
on child protection plans that there are plans to keep them safe.
So we have a variety of multidisciplinary professionals in our teams.
Domestic abuse workers, domestic abuse practitioners, substance misuse workers,
mental health practitioners, and our children's practitioners who offer family support, who will be going in multiple times a week.
And for all of those children, there are plans to achieve permanence for them.
So for them to either stay in their families permanently and safely, or for them to live in alternative care arrangements.
Yeah, so we constantly review those plans for those children.
We also have some kind of checks and balances in the system to make sure that we are keeping
track of planning for children.
So we have a regular meeting where we oversee children who have been on plans for more than
12 months, for 18 months, and that gives me oversight and senior managers oversight of
the planning kind of with families each day.
Ms Haroon, then Councillor Osborne.
So, it's action number one, and you mentioned about carry out an audit of child care provision
across the borough.
So, my question is, I wonder where is the results of this audit and who carried out.
Who would like to take that?
Where is it in the KPIs?
That's the action number one, page number one.
Okay.
Who would like to take that?
I think that was probably carried out by the early years team.
So they will have, in terms of making sure that there's sufficiency of childcare placements
across the borough, so that's been carried out by the team.
We have got sufficiency across the borough, so there isn't any need for additional places
for childcare.
and we've looked at that in terms of wards, so across the piece in terms of clusters.
So yeah, it's been conducted by the team and I'm sure that we'll be happy to share the information around the audit
in terms of the findings and where provision is and the amount of places we have and the need.
But we've identified that there is no additional places needed in terms of meeting the needs for children early years.
So, we would like to see the results and secondly, if it's conducted by the team, then we can't
say it's audit.
Because audit should be independent.
You can say it's internal review, but you can't say audit.
You can in terms of an education audit.
You can go out and audit provisions in terms of looking at sufficiency.
So we can conduct an internal audit of sufficiency places.
Shall I, yeah.
I would just say, this is not a financial...
Yes, that's absolutely fine, but even though it's not the finance,
but when we use the term audit, it's always independent.
Because then it's confusing between audit and internal review.
That's fine, thank you.
I think we're going into semantics, but I do understand the audit is normally a financial
audit or that word you would think that.
Councillor Osborne.
Yeah, I'm interested in another falling percentage.
You've got children looked after who are then placed in with in -house foster carers.
The percentage of that is decreasing as well and I'm inclined to ask what on earth is going
on there then and maybe it's a good thing.
It provokes me to ask what can we do to place more children with Wandsworth foster families
Or should we be doing more to place more children with Wandsworth foster families?
Yes, we are trying.
So the children that come into our care, so we have a really clear value base in Wandsworth to keep children and their families.
We will put any resource that is needed to keep a child within their family.
For those children that do need to come into our care, typically their experiences,
their needs mean that they present in complex ways.
That for a person that doesn't know them, to look after them can be challenging.
We often find ourselves with those children feeling not able to live in a family setting,
because they've come out of their own family setting and that's quite an adjustment.
But for children who can live in a family setting, we are actively recruiting foster carers for Wandsworth.
And we have a really kind of holistic training offer for them.
So we have an in -house social care CAMS team, we have a family therapy team,
all of which will wrap around our foster carers to support them to care for our children.
But I guess there are also some kind of challenges with our location, with people having homes with spare bedrooms.
And the kind of population in Wandsworth being one where,
as people want to buy large properties, they may move out of the borough.
And so locally, trying to recruit the kind of foster carers that we need for our sibling groups.
We want to keep brothers and sisters together.
And for our children with more complex needs is proven challenging.
But we are trying to actively address it through a number of routes.
Looking at our package, looking at how we publicize that and advertise it.
looking at how we reach the right people,
people who may have children moving on to university and other things.
So we're looking at all of those ways to try and recruit foster carers.
In the meantime though, we have some really strong relationships with independent fostering agencies.
And they are able to offer our children foster families locally.
It's really important to us to keep our children close to home, close to Wandsworth,
Where they have family, community, connection, and they feel that they belong.
And so we are working closely with those agencies in order to be able to make sure that we
kind of input into our children's care really significantly, that we wrap around them and their carers.
And we, I guess, treat their foster carers as if they are our own in terms of the support that we offer them and our children.
and I guess the way that we support our children to feel that they belong in
that foster carer's home. So I guess we're really trying to recruit in -house
foster carers but I feel really confident that even when we place our
children with external foster carers they get really good quality care.
Councillor Owens. Thank you. Just sort of following on from Ms Arun's point on
the first action and less about the audit, more sort of my interest with the vulnerable
two -year -olds because we've got here that Wandsworth were a little below our inner London
neighbors when it comes to take up of the vulnerable two -year -old offer.
And I was confused by this because of course you've had the increase in sort of the family
hubs, we've got these fantastic local nursery schools that have had vulnerable two -year -olds
Because for many years, in each of the three, well, in Ballyman, Battersea, and in Easton,
Rampton, and I was just interested as to why we haven't managed to reach out more to the
vulnerable two year olds, unlike other boroughs.
Yeah I mean I think the stats that we have at the moment are probably not reflective
of the current position.
I think we have seen an increase.
We've done a lot of work around this in terms of sending out postcards to families that
that are eligible.
We've done a lot of work through our hubs as well.
So as much as the data that we have here,
I think we will see an increase in the uptake
over the coming months, et cetera,
because of the work that we've put in
to try and engage with these families
and get them to take up their offer.
And thank you, and there's obviously changes coming afoot
this September, aren't there, to childcare
in terms of from nine months, and obviously that's means tested.
But it's not necessarily the case perhaps that with the vulnerable younger ones that those parents would be working and would be actually eligible maybe for
the changes to childcare from the state as of nine months old.
So obviously it's helpful that the government intervenes in that sense because you will know about more children,
but clearly it may not be the children that you want to access.
Can I just follow on from that in terms of the supplementary?
So absolutely, and it follows on from a question from Councillor Davies early around the early
intervention and actually the work that we're doing with our health visitors in terms of
identifying families where they may have children eligible for the vulnerable two -year -olds
funding and how we're working with those.
And also triangulating in terms of being present around those two -year -old checks, for example,
and actually how we're there present for those conversations with regards to that.
but also working very closely with our voluntary and community and faith organisations
who are often engaging with these families in terms of supporting and making sure that they're aware of the vulnerable two -year -old funding and opportunities.
Thank you. I've got Councillor Davies next, then Councillor Burchill and then Mr Langan.
Yes, my question is a little bit similar to my previous one actually, but this time about the child and family assessments.
So, the last committee meeting, the last time we discussed the KPIs at committee, you know,
we heard about what work was happening there to ensure that they are completed in timely
ways.
So, I'm just looking for an update, really, about, you know, the progress to make sure
that we're consistently meeting those targets, ensuring families receive the right help at
the right time.
Thanks.
Yes.
So the statutory time scale for a child and family assessment is 45 working days.
And we've put a measure in place to kind of target ourselves at 35 working days.
We noticed that any of our later assessments, assessments that were over time scale,
were coming in between one and five days over time.
And talking to people about that, we understood that that was about kind of planning and writing as opposed to work with families.
So we've built in a kind of internal mechanism to track at 35 days,
which gives us some room for error in terms of that writing time.
I guess we're doing a lot of work, a lot of conversations with social workers.
We track assessments on a weekly basis.
We talk to social workers about their progress with families, what they're thinking.
And social workers have supervision at 10 days, at 20 days,
to make sure that they are, I guess, working with the family,
getting the right plan built with the family and that we have an indication of
what the outcome of that assessment will be. I am really confident that families
are getting the right help at the right time. The assessment is the written
product of that work and at times people have have I guess not planned that work
as we would want them to. So that our work has been largely around that more
than work to make sure that families are getting the right help at the right time.
That I'm very certain of. It's just the planning around it. But we are
getting there. We have been on target since April. So whilst the
weekly numbers kind of go up and down as you'd expect, we have been
consistently on target since April. And that I guess shows the kind of previous
six months of work in terms of getting people drilled in terms of their
planning and organization.
But yeah, the assessments and plans for families are all happening and we get to see that through
our visit data, our supervision data, and then our assessments.
Thank you so much.
That's very reassuring.
And you answered my supplementary question, which is how do you have confidence in knowing
that?
So thank you.
I have Councillor Burch will next.
I wasn't going to talk about what everybody else is talking about, but thank you very much.
You made it very clear about what you're doing for the early years.
I was looking at children going missing.
Now, I didn't, when I first became a Councillor, I didn't really understand the implication of this.
Now I do, and when we're hearing about the grooming gangs and the damage they are doing to some of the most vulnerable.
I just want to know a little bit more about how here in Wandsworth we are protecting these vulnerable young people.
So we have a number of ways that we do that.
So we have, I guess, a wealth of information and data about our children.
So each morning we have a briefing that includes our social workers, our kind of front door,
the police, and a kind of multi -agency group of people, so education, health, where we
Talk about information from the night before so any child or family that have come to police attention or come to community attention
The day before or the night before we talk about first thing in the morning and so that we are clear about the actions that we're
Taking and those notes get circulated to me every day
But also get circulated to the relevant people so that they have the actions to take forward for that child in that day
So for example your question was about missing if a child has gone missing overnight or has been missing for a number of days
every single day they will be spoken about in that meeting in the morning where we will be able to get direct updates from the police.
And from anyone else who may have information about them.
We also hold what we call strategy meetings.
So that's a meeting with the police and any other professional that's relevant to that child where we share information.
And we come up with a strategy essentially to locate that child,
to know what information there is around them, who they might be with, who they've communicated with.
And that enables us to make plans around those children.
Each month I chair a meeting about individual children who are at risk of or
experiencing exploitation, and I think that was your concern about kind of grooming.
And we talk about, one week of a month we talk about the individual plans around those children to make sure that we have everything in place that we need.
I co -chair that with my police exploitation colleagues.
And again, have a number of agencies in the room.
And then the next week of the month we have a strategic meeting that focuses on child
exploitation and that allows us to think at a slightly different level about plans that
we might have in place between ourselves, the police, community safety, to I guess address
any locations of concern, any individuals of concern, so that we're aware of what's
happening across the borough.
We have really close links with community safety and we join up on kind of projects,
So we've had a project previously around Carp and Junction to work with businesses in the area to increase their understanding of exploitation.
We've done work with hotel chains where there has been kind of concerns or patterns that children might be there.
I guess all to educate, to help them understand that children in these situations are victims, they can't consent.
and to increase awareness because, as you said, unless you occupy this space,
you won't always be aware of what exploitation is, which means you won't always be able to spot it.
So we do lots of stuff on a kind of individual child level,
but also on a system and partnership level to try and address that.
Thank you very much. I don't think I could ask you to do any more.
I just hope that you manage to get to the right answer for each of the children you're looking after.
So thank you.
Thank you, Councillor Burchall.
Yes, I was going to say from the chair, that is so interesting but also so impressive.
It was so comprehensive, the answer that you were able to give them as suitor.
Very reassuring for the whole committee and all our children in Wandsworth.
Mr. Langan next and then Councillor Crivelli and Councillor...
Thank you chair. Mine's a question of context and
clarification please. I'm looking at multi -agency services page 33 into page 34
and the comment engagement from across the borough was high we received 26 complete
survey responses and a further 24 partial completions. Can you say more
about the more detail there to actually explain why that number is high, what's the sort of
survey population potential, what could be done to actually improve those responses?
This is in regards to the We Are Young Wandsworth Youth Operators, is it?
So it's page 34 at the top, but it talks about the survey responses.
So without context, 50 responses doesn't sound like an awful lot, but it says it's a high
response rate.
So I'd like to hear more about why it's a high response rate, who are these surveys
coming in from, just to get some more detail.
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you everybody when you're asking questions on the KPIs it's really because it's such
a big paper it's really important to be very very clear because the officers are obviously
trying to follow through on that. We could go to the next question whilst.
So this relates to the development of the Youth Partnership and as we've been working
with the National Youth Agency to really understand about what the current offer is across Wandsworth.
I think it's recognized that maybe we didn't have a full and comprehensive understanding
of all the youth organisations that were working across Wandsworth.
So actually we worked with the National Youth Agency to create this survey in terms of reaching
out.
I think it was a good response in terms of we had the breadth of the response that we
had from different organisations.
Obviously we haven't reached all of the organisations that are delivering youth services, we know
that.
But actually it gave us a good understanding about the current services that are run off
up.
We know there's more to do.
The Youth Partnership is growing and developing.
I'm delighted to say that initially we started with about seven organizations who were part
of the Youth Partnership.
I think at the last count we were over 30 that are present on the partnership.
It's growing.
And really thinking about we've got those larger organizations that are well established
across the borough, but actually what we're really keen to do is reach those smaller grassroots
organizations as well that are really embedded in our communities.
What it gave us from the survey is a platform to work from and that actually this isn't
a one -off exercise and we're continually engaging with the partnership to really understand
what's on offer and the needs of our young people.
Can you say something about how you will engage with those smaller organizations to get the
numbers up?
So we're active through the youth partnerships, so we're actively working with those larger
organizations through that kind of peer support and actually reaching out in terms of their
experience to help us go and engage with some of those grassroots
organizations but through our cluster coordinators as well so we have a cluster
coordinator in each of our three areas and they're actively out and about
visible and approaching and working with those organizations through that as well
but also working through with our community leaders as well so
particularly through our faith sector we know there's an awful lot of youth
provision being delivered through our faith sector and how we go out and
engaging with those organisations.
I think I have got Councillor Crivelli next and then Councillor Osborne, Councillor Owens,
Ms Wolfson -Holm and Councillor Jaffray.
Can I ask two very brief questions about the KPIs. If we go to page 3 of 34, at the top
you say we have been proactively working with schools to encourage and support reductions
of costs for uniforms and we know the Government is pushing quite heavily to try and get schools
to find cheaper options for school uniforms for children.
One of the issues that I think we've encountered in the past
is that schools are quite keen to maintain their own identity
and their own ethos.
I was just wondering if you could say whether or not
are schools becoming a little bit more amenable to the idea
of having cheaper uniforms that aren't, say, for example,
their own brand.
Are we getting better feedback from the schools on that?
I'd be interested to know what you can tell us about that.
The second question I just wanted to ask was you mentioned about the baby box which was
on page 5 of 34 and you said that you can ask us the valuation possibly of university
led evaluation.
Am I correct?
Do I make the correct assumption here that the valuation will be is it value for money?
How effective is it?
And do we need to tweak it, alter it so that we can reach more people who it might benefit
better?
School uniforms, as per the KPIs, you can see that we do have the most generous vouchers
in London, which is great.
I think we all know the cost of uniforms is already high.
Therefore, I think it's quite a simple evaluation that we are actually substituting that, and
And they have that money to keep and spend on essentials for their homes.
So I don't know if there's a huge amount of assessment.
I don't know, might be going on the wrong path here.
Yeah, I mean, I think there has been some audits done of school uniforms.
And I know that, I mean, I've been into a few of our schools.
And some of them have completely given, have said, actually,
we don't require children to have a particular uniform.
They'll have a pair of black trousers or a white shirt.
I mean, some of them even went into one of the schools and even in the nursery,
they were allowing children because they felt comfortable to come in and have slippers.
So actually, it was about suitability and appropriateness and consideration also for their communities.
So it's schools understanding their community and what their community needs and therefore their approach to uniform is driven by that.
So I think, you know, it's not a one size fits all and I think schools will adapt according to their communities and their communities needs.
I had Councillor Osborne.
Just in relation to the baby box question.
Yes, so absolutely.
In terms of looking at both the social value as well, in terms of the impact of social value,
but also looking through the health and social inequalities lens in terms of improving outcomes both for children,
but also around parental mental health and well -being as well.
Councillor Osborne.
Yes, Councillor Osborne, whatever it might say on the screen.
It's got me right, it's got me right, good, okay.
The
Yes, we
We talked earlier on in the first paper about the difficulties around the EHCP provision.
One thing that I'm proud to say about Wandsworth is that for many years we've always taken
the view that families should get the right help at the right time and we're doing that
even in a period of rising demand at the moment.
But there's this astonishing figure in the paper we're looking at now.
With regard to this, I consider really quite tight window of 20 weeks in which to sort
out the provision of EHCPs.
And it turns out that we are really ahead of the game nationally in getting it sorted
in that period as a council. Can you say something about how on earth we pull that off? What
are we doing to get ourselves into that excellent position?
Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. And I agree, I have to say. I know I manage the team, but
I think it is a very impressive performance and it has been two years running and that
That is, when you consider the number of local authorities that can deliver 100 % in 20 week
timeliness, it's very, very small.
And some of those local authorities do not have anywhere near the level of number of
plans that we have to process within a 12 month period.
So I think I really want to say well done to the team who are dedicated, passionate.
So our SNAS team, Special Needs Assessment Service, sorry.
They are really committed to ensuring that children's needs are met in a timely way.
And that 20 week time, and this is really, really important.
And I think once we assess that the legal test has been met and
that an assessment is needed, the whole process is done collaboratively with families.
So I'm really, really proud of them.
But the other thing that I would say is it's very easy sometimes to deliver on a 20 week timeliness when you don't have the quality of plan either.
And one thing that sits alongside our 20 week timeliness and our timeliness around completing plans is our quality assurance framework.
And what is wonderful is that we have a multi agency group that audits EHCPs.
And that is from across the parent group, from schools,
from social care, from health.
So they sit on that group.
And recently, actually our parent carer forum,
one of the parents was part of our audit group and actually said
that the plan that she had looked at was one of the best she had seen
and that it was completely focused on the child,
that the actual child just sang through the document.
and that was just amazing to receive that email.
Having said that, you know, it's a challenge
and it's not easy to complete plans in time with the quality that we have.
And so that's why I mentioned earlier that we are looking at ways
to remove any sort of administrative tasks that we can
from the coordinators through using AI.
So we really are looking at that at the moment.
But as I said, the one thing for me is I'm happy to look at tools but actually not at
the detriment of quality because we need to make sure that those plans are still individualized.
They don't become generic because, you know, for me that would be a real travesty if we
lost that.
So I think, you know, we're looking at lots and lots of different ways.
And by having tools that help us and reduce the time spent on writing plans, we can actually
we work on the co -production, work on the relational piece with schools, with families.
And also if that demand does continue to be there around growth, it means also that if we can free up some of that time,
we're not then having to invest in more staff if we need to because obviously we're having to process more plans.
So that's sort of our approach to delivery, to making sure that we retain that 100 % time in this,
but also we don't lose the quality of the plans as well.
Thank you. Councillor Owens and then Ms Wilson -Holm and then Councillor Jaffray.
Thank you. This is sort of part of the youth strategy but more actually digital inclusion
and it relates to Councillor Gasser's new role because I think she might have taken
libraries or still have the responsibility for libraries from her previous role but as
I understand libraries obviously sits with environment. But one of the things that Councillor
Gasser knows because I've talked to her about it this week, it's come up time and time again
and relates to young people is this business of,
particularly in the holidays, but also half -term,
but also weekends in the exam season,
which seems to sort of run the entire year
from mocks that seem to start nowadays in October.
And they're still doing exams,
they think they've just finished last week.
But obviously with ones with libraries,
they are not all open Monday to Saturday.
And what we are seeing increasingly,
and I've seen this in my own ward,
but across the borough,
are children queuing from sort of half past eight
in the morning, particularly in the holidays.
And I think there's a sort of a misunderstanding perhaps
as to where the spaces might be within the library system.
And particularly when we discussed Northcott Library,
which is a brand new library that has meeting rooms,
but the children haven't necessarily been allowed
to use the meeting rooms to study as extra desk space.
And I wonder if there's something that could,
we've obviously discussed this
and there's a new library strategy and all the rest,
but it does relate to children across the borough
because, you know, not necessarily my sons, but they do go to the libraries, but, you
know, there are children that don't have, and we talk about digital inclusion, families
that don't have Wi -Fi, and it strikes me that more and more children are looking at libraries
as somewhere to help them, particularly teenagers, with exams, and more that we could do to pinpoint
them.
Thank you.
I think Councillor Gasser would like to respond.
Yes, thank you.
I mean, obviously, we met the other day, and also this came up at Environment Committee
last night, and we've heard you, and we've heard other people mention it last night.
we're looking into absolutely how we can provide more opportunities.
We're looking at that.
You asked about bookings, particularly Northcote Library.
And yeah, it does seem to me that when the rooms are not booked,
we should be allowing the children to use them.
And we're looking at that across the piece.
So absolutely, we've heard you, and we're going to do whatever we can on that.
Just out of interest, it's not necessarily even children in my own ward.
I know for a fact through my own children,
that it's children across the borough that go to different schools,
across boroughs, private and state, interestingly.
And they will go to different libraries on different days
because of course they're all open on different days.
And it's trying to understand where they can get access,
because if they're keen to get in at half eight
in the morning, our A -level and GCSE results
might improve as well, thanks.
Yeah, we've heard that, and the library team
absolutely looking into that.
I think we've got good results, actually, even better.
Thank you very much.
Ms. Wolfson -Holm, I think you had a question,
and then Councillor Jeffrey.
Yes, I was looking on page 15 of 34
about some of the things to do with schools particularly.
Obviously, the idea of having 95 % of the schools
rated good or outstanding is fantastic.
So I was just wondering how that was then going to progress
with the new way that Ofsted were changing their reviews.
But so that was my first one.
But the second one really was this thing about the closure
of maintained schools.
So working to avoid the closure of maintained schools before 2026, although it obviously
hasn't been entirely successful, I was just wondering how specifically you were going
about working with each school so we know exactly what the situation is and exactly
whether they might be at risk of closure and what support could possibly be put in place.
So, yeah, we work very, very closely, especially through Gareth's teams.
With our schools, we pride ourselves in being proactive in the space with everything driven
on a three -year forecast basis, pupil number, finances, obviously a lot of assumptions in
there.
But it does help to focus the mind and ensure that we take early action.
We don't have many week schools now.
Our reserves went up 14 % last year across our schools,
from 12 million to 14 million while we did go down
in total numbers of schools.
So it's quite a big change.
It was a challenging year with inflation.
And also, our schools did really, really well.
I think they've now got into that routine of assessing
their finances as a priority.
It's become a way of working, which is really good and really
embedded.
So, all that extra work that we've done, five years with our schools, is really paying off.
Obviously, we do a lot of work around, there's a lot of buildings going up and so on in the borough as well,
so we're hoping that that does yield children as well at some point.
Yes, I was also wondering whether the St. George's one looked as if it was going to time.
It was obviously a very tight timetable.
Also, just to come back on your point about Ofsted and obviously our schools are performing
exceptionally well.
I mean, the good thing that we have in Wandsworth is we have very high quality link advisors
that work with all of our schools in Wandsworth.
And obviously with the new Ofsted framework, the nine outcomes, we're very much focused
on supporting schools.
We go in, we review provision on a regular basis.
We work with schools in terms of those identified areas.
So I'm confident that actually despite changes we will still see high standards in our schools.
Councilor Jeffrey, I've got next.
Thank you.
So as a new person to this committee, it's been really great reading these KPIs and
seeing how much is actually happening in the children's committee and how hard
I've been working and everything, so first of all it's really great to see that.
So Wandsworth is defying the national and London trend in the use of agency social workers.
Can you explain how we have achieved this and the ongoing plans to maintain workforce
stability?
Yes, so we have been, I guess, defying the trends for some time, but we have reduced
our agency social workers even further. So I think last year we were at 9 % the end of
this year, so the end of March, we were at 7%, which is really, really low for any social
Department. I guess how we've done that and how we aim to maintain that. So
social work's a really tough job and I think to keep your workforce engaged,
committed, motivated and feeling able to do their jobs. We've worked really really
hard over the last few years to create a culture that means that our social
workers know that we all care. So you know we invest in them, we invest in
We give them the tools to do their jobs really well.
But we also take time to have conversations, to spend time together thinking about their dilemmas with families,
and helping them to feel held through what is sometimes really worrying work.
And it's usually those kinds of things that lead to people wanting to go and work somewhere else.
If they don't feel safe, they don't feel held.
We have looked at our kind of career progression as well.
So we have a really clear career progression pathway from student social workers to newly qualified social workers.
And a pathway that they can see to progress through to a senior social worker, an advanced social worker, and beyond.
We've got a variety of routes of progression.
We invest in systemic training for our social workers, which means that they have the option to be dual qualified as a family therapist later in their career if they want.
And we have, I guess, career progression opportunities into management, but also progression within
practice.
So for social workers that don't want to manage others, but do want to work with families
and influence the system in a different way, in a practice -led way, we have opportunities
for that as well.
We bring people together regularly at practice -focused sessions where we can all get kind of engaged
and enthused about our work.
Yeah, and I think, you know, investment in kind of workspaces
and other things is also really, really helpful.
So I think that's kind of what we've done so far,
and it seems to be working.
We take time to hear feedback, and we listen to that,
and we do things with it.
So I think investing in your kind of permanent workforce
means that you will always have a lower agency rate,
and we seem to have done that really successfully.
So I think we'll stick with what we're doing,
But also, you know, we're headed into another period of reform nationally for social care.
And that will, I guess, raise new challenges, but also new opportunities for people to work
in a system that we hope will work better for families.
Thank you.
Did you want to come back?
Yeah.
Thank you.
And I just have another question.
So, as a listening council and a borough of sanctuary, is it – it is encouraging to
see we have increased engagement with children and parents, ensuring their voices are integral
to the services and support we provide.
Could you elaborate on how parental experience and feedback has directly influenced our service
delivery and how we are able to listen to all voices?
and do you feel confident that the council's message is reaching all, especially minority groups?
Thank you for your question.
And I think we've made significant strides in embedding our parental voice into our services
with a direct impact both on design and delivery.
So I'm delighted to share with committee that we've now got 30 trained parent champions
that represented right the way across the borough.
Six of those parent champions now deliver our empowering parents,
empowering communities, parenting courses.
And 16 have been trained as part of our recruitment, with several actually sitting on interview panels,
ensuring that the parental perspective shape our recruitment, both in terms of front lines for frontline staff.
Over the last six months, our parent champions have supported engagement with over 1 ,400 parents and families.
signposting to early education, send support, and parenting workshops.
Their feedback is supported in the form of the play strategy,
our family hubs work, and our family information service refresh.
They've also supported us to lead on local initiatives
from our sensory play and reading sessions to female -led community groups,
and maintaining really strong links with some of our voluntary and community and faith organisations.
Our parent champions are also supporting the implementation of parent listening groups
in all of our family hubs which will be commencing from September to ensure that we hear the
voice of our families within the clusters.
Our specific parents and feedback branch is made up of mothers and fathers who have lived
experience of children's social care and they meet on a monthly basis to share their feedback
and experiences.
Their feedback experiences have been pivotal in terms of shaping areas such as our new
Child Protection Conference Suite and feeding back in terms of the environment.
They've also helped to co -design training which has been delivered to
over 60 of our social workers with a hundred percent positive feedback in
terms of impact and they've helped us to rewrite leaflets to make sure that
they're clear for children and people. Our parent feedback branch have also been
on participation and the participation interview panels for some of our systemic
therapists as well and they've created projects such as the tree collage to
help inform what good social work practice looks like in Wandsworth and how we work with families.
Our parents are also maintaining strong links with colleagues across the council to ensure
that the voice of parents is embedded across all the work that we do as a listening council.
Brilliant, thank you so much and it's great to hear that there's actually mothers and
fathers involved in this so thank you for that.
Councillor Davies and then Mr. Langan.
Yeah, I think I've got sort of two points that I'll mould into one.
So yeah, so the Year of Play that was launched last week and with the fountain of fun.
And so I think I'd just like to hear a little bit more about how this is going to be, you
know, rolled out and particularly about investments into play spaces over the next year or so.
But then also I'm aware about the, you know, I saw how the holiday activities fund, the
half program, you know, that kind of, yeah, rolls into play, doesn't it?
But, you know, I can see how staff, you know, have been very much, you know, it's a testament,
the success is a testament to dedication to the hard work of the team.
So absolutely well done.
And you know, you do mention that the school's minister, Stephen Morgan MP, he visited a
half program.
but you did mention that he also said it was fantastic.
So I wanted to just mention that as well. Thanks.
Thank you, Councillor Davies. Yes.
We're delighted and thank you for those that attended the Fountain of Fun.
It was, despite, I think, being the hottest day of the year so far,
it was fabulous to see the children engaging in play
and actually to share with the committee that we spoke to one child
as they were leaving from St Anne's School.
And there were, when we said, how was your day?
and they said this has been the best day of my life.
And I think that really is the power of play
in terms of those opportunities.
So the Year of Play is a borough -wide initiative
designed to embed play in everyday lives
for children and families.
It will be supported through a digital brochure,
which is now live on the Family Information Service website
and will be regularly updated
so that families have visibility
about the range of play -off opportunities available.
We're also connecting families to local services and organizations, offering play opportunities throughout the year, many that are free or at very low cost.
We'll also be circulating printed leaflets via schools and a digital platform.
There's some several key programs which are underway for delivery.
One of those is we're developing our 10x10, so 10 things for children to do by the age of 10,
ensuring that all children have access to a range of activities
and also in the process of working with young people about developing a 10x team,
so giving teenagers opportunity to access a range of play opportunities.
To support the development of play, we're also working with community organizations
to develop play ranger roles, so actually supporting play in our parks and community spaces
and developing play champions, which is training local volunteers
to advocate for and support play within their communities.
And there's been a significant capital investment into play,
and I'm delighted to share that we have at least
15 new play spaces expected to open
in the 2025 to 2026 period.
Major refurbishments included the Lady Allen playground
and the George Sharing Center,
both which have been designed with inclusive
and sensory play in mind for children and young people.
We've got new playgrounds at Downshire Field
and the Alton Activity Center
offering inclusive equipment and open access for all the community.
We're working with Colleach from housing to refurbish a number of housing estate playgrounds
with projects at Barloch House, Maskell Road and Wendleson Estate already scheduled for
completion by October 2025.
We've got a suite of parks projects including Wandsworth Park, Harroway Gardens and Tooting
Common all progressing through the planning and delivery phases with openings scheduled
for early into 2026.
Thank you, Mr Wyatt, and thank you for all your work on that,
making it all happen so quickly. Mr Lunga.
Thank you, Chair. I will try not to make this a leading question, but it is a question that I
would like to ask, and I'd sort of crave the indulgence. And to follow up to what Mrs Wollstone
was asking about school closures and the commitment that maintained schools are not closed
before 2026. Implicit within the narrative is the recognition that outside of mainstream
schools there are also diocese schools and academies. I know from my own local experience
that my local primary which is now under an academy train is closing at the end of this
term. So if it's appropriate, and I will ask that before I ask the question, is the council
developing a strategy for engaging with those schools and pupils who will at
least in part be coming back into mainstream state maintained schools or
is it being handled on a case -by -case basis? Who would like to answer that?
Mr. Fanaroli, Mr. Hollock.
Yeah, I mean, obviously, in terms of school closures,
it's the last resort.
And we work very closely with all of our schools,
regardless of whether, again, they're maintained academy,
faith school, in terms of trying to put them in a position
where they're not having to close.
Where that does happen, there is absolute engagement.
So the school that you're referring to, the academy, I've been part of that conversation from the outset.
And we've planned with them in terms of next steps for those children.
And obviously, the closure of an academy is very, very different to the closure of a maintained school.
The process is very, very different.
And it actually makes it harder to develop a plan.
But actually, in those cases, because of the way we've worked together with the trust,
we've developed a really robust plan.
Those children now have provision within Wandsworth if they wanted it.
And so obviously in terms of a decision when it comes to an academy, that is the Minister's
decision to close the school, not a local authority.
But I'm very, very confident that we have worked very, very closely with the trust and
and those children will be transitioned as they would
if it was a maintained school that we had closed.
So yeah, it doesn't matter to me.
My focus will be on children and making sure
that any closure that sadly has to happen,
we make sure that it is done as compassionately
and as smoothly as we possibly can to mitigate any impact
that a closure of a school would have
on the children and their family.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Just to add, any school that takes a material amount of extra children, we do support financially.
Thank you everybody.
If there aren't any further questions, we will move to the next paper.
Ms. Haroon.
Ms. Mirelli already mentioned about the completion of the ESCP and the quality.
I'm very keen, if you can share the data or detailed report,
How the local authority may yield the quality of the ESCP within this committee, please?
Yeah, I can go back to the team and look at, in terms of the audits that we do, how that
can be shared so that people have a shared understanding of the quality of the plans
that we are obviously issuing.
Thank you.
Sorry, you both had your microphones on at the same time, so I didn't quite hear that.
Ms Haroon, were you requesting something to be brought to Committee?
Yes, it's the quality I requested to share the data or detailed report,
how the local authority is measured the quality of the ESCP by the Quality Assurance Team.
Thank you very much for making that clear.
And we will obviously, we're going to be moving to a different style of committee
and that is relevant to the next paper,
but we will work out a way to share that information with you.
So I have to ask you to note that report.
The report is for information.
Is it noted?
Yes.
Thank you very much.
So we now move to the paper entitled Work Program,

5 Work Programme (Paper No. 25-225)

Paper number 25 to 225.
And you all have had a chance to have a look at it.
And this relates to moving into this new way of doing scrutiny.
Most of us have been on the training and beginning to get an idea of how it's going to work.
And this paper really does outline the how, not the content, not what we're going to scrutinize.
But the how and the next steps and Ms.
Mariana is here to just introduce the paper and then Councilor Osborn will do an introduction.
Thank you, Chair.
Sorry, I may have missed introductions earlier.
I'm Mariana Ritchie, Democratic Services Manager.
And yeah, as we know, we are moving into a new style of scrutiny and the paper just outlines the process and
guidance for how you might choose topics for scrutiny to look into, as well as the different
formats that you can choose to do that.
So, yeah, if anyone has any questions, I'm willing to answer them.
Okay, thank you.
And if, Councillor Osborne, if you'd like to do an introduction, and then we'll do questions
to you both.
Yes, very briefly, really, just to say that we are moving into a new style, as has been
described.
Personally, because it's been mostly discussed at the General Purposes Committee, which I
chair, I'm very wedded to the process and I think it's fair to say I'm excited by the
process.
The committee system in Wandsworth and the individual committees vary in their character.
Some have discussions which are perhaps more combative than others between the the majority party and the minority party.
and I mean going back over decades depending on who the majority party is
and who the minority party is and that varies.
This committee is a very good -natured one as you've all seen this evening.
People are on all sides of putting in thoughtful and considered contributions
aimed at providing a better service.
That's not to say that this committee has not had its moments, put it that way, in the past,
and has occasionally drifted off into the more combative side of discussion.
But I think the point is this, that all sides in the Council,
None of them have a prerogative on good ideas.
None of them have a prerogative on compassion or moral compass.
No counselor has any special role in the decision making in this council
by virtue of their party membership when it comes to the real nitty -gritty of taking a
sensible decision. And what we're trying to do is to move into a system where decisions
are taken which are primarily focused on the needs of the residents and the people of Wandsworth.
And if I'm honest, I think both parties have occasionally strayed from the straight and narrow path that is required in order to take decisions of that type.
And we're trying to come up with a system of scrutiny which makes it easier for the parties not to stray from that path and to focus on the needs of the residents of Wandsworth.
I am excited, not for the majority party, not for the minority party certainly, but for the people of Wandsworth about what it is we are now trying to achieve.
We do not know exactly what the final structure and nature of our scrutiny system is going to look like.
We are learning by doing and bringing in a system which is going to change organically as we go forward.
This paper which has come up on the agenda now, this work programme, is a framework.
It's not there to set a set of ideas for us necessarily to discuss.
We might want to change the headings in this paper as the weeks and months go by, because
the committees are going to have the autonomy to do exactly that.
But it gives us an idea of how we might be able to focus in that way, how decisions can
be taken.
It's a framework for us to work with and to insert ideas into.
So on that note, I think we're on the right track.
I think it's exciting and I'm trying very hard to get all sides, all councillors involved
in that process.
Thank you everybody.
Thank you very much, Councillor Osborne.
Have we got questions either for Mariana or for Councillor Osborne?
Any questions on this new form of doing scrutiny?
No. If I could just say from the Chair in terms of process and moving forward,
there is going to be a meeting with Councillor Sweet, the opposition lead on July the 8th,
with myself, with Councillor Davies, who's the Deputy Chair of this committee,
with Mariana from Democratic Services, Ms Fofovici, and obviously with our cabinet member as well.
And the way that we're taking that forward is, we're talking about the how, but this is the content.
So on our side, we've met and we've come up with two or
three issues that we would like to look into scrutinizing.
There's a very strict criteria which it'll have to be run against and they may not make it through.
And I very much was hoping that Councilor Sweet would be here this evening so
that I could ask him if your side have had that meeting and that he will bring two or
three issues that you would consider for scrutiny to that meeting.
Councillor Crivelli, are you the Deputy Chair?
I'm Deputy Lead.
I can't speak for Councillor Sweet. I'm afraid I'm not sure what his position is on this.
But obviously, of course, we'd be very keen to feed into ensuring that scrutiny is as robust as it possibly can be.
And obviously, if it is the case that we're going to have a meeting on that,
I'm sure the Councillors will take the lead and try and represent the minority group as best you can.
Thank you very much.
And to the co -operative members and parent governors, obviously this is going to be a different way of working.
We're hoping that it's going to be more enjoyable for everybody because we sort of listen to long reports
and we think we're impacting on a decision but we're not really because it's going to cabinet really quick.
So this way of doing scrutiny, which to be fair, nearly all other councils do it that way.
Wandsworth is a real outlier in how it's been done.
In this way, we don't have the power to change what cabinet would decide.
The power rests with them, but we certainly have the power to influence it,
which we don't have now, or even come up with ideas for cabinet,
to take to cabinet to put on the agenda.
So for all of those reasons, like Councillor Osborne has said, it's exciting.
So I will speak to you all individually outside committee about how that is going to work.
And obviously you're here as part of the education function,
so we wouldn't be expecting you to be on task and finish groups, for example,
where we're scrutinising children's services.
but if we're scrutinizing the education function,
you'd be very welcome to join those groups.
But I will email and call you all
separately outside the meeting.
Thank you very much.
Any further questions?
No.
Okay.

6 Children's Services - Final Outturn Position FY 2024-25 (Paper No. 25-226)

That paper was for report, was for information,
so is it noted?
Thank you very much.
So we move to the final paper which is Children's Services General Fund Outterm Position 24 -25.
And really huge, huge thanks to our dedicated team for their efforts in managing the complex financial landscape of the last year.
And as I said at the beginning, there's so many factors outside, outside our control constantly
and in the world at the moment, which obviously affect economic decision.
But despite all the challenges and the high levels of our placement inflation,
we've talked about that already. Our team has worked tirelessly and we've come in with only
a slight overspend and you've all seen that there.
So we have Gareth Evans who Gareth is going to give an introduction.
Yeah, hi there.
I think you said a little bit there really.
This is the regular report that comes to committee to highlight the financial position of Children's
Services General Fund.
The position didn't move significantly from the position presented at quarter three.
So we finished the year with that overspend you mentioned of 485K, which represents half
a percent of the budget.
So not a huge overspend and not a large movement from quarter three.
Thank you very much, Gareth.
Have we got any questions on this paper?
Ms. Haroon.
Yeah, under business and resources is underspent by 1 .3 million.
What's the reason behind?
That is mainly due to large amounts of grant income that's held in business and resources.
So we do hold some of our grants there that we haven't allocated out to services.
Also we did do the restructuring business and resources as you know that
came here which generated savings that have been taken in this financial year
so that'll also play a part of it. There was also some vacancies across some of
the teams within business resources as well, particularly commissioning.
Councillor Osborne. Yes I mean we've touched on this a little bit earlier on.
I think from last quarter report and discussions we've had elsewhere,
it's clear that the kind of financial pressures we're facing are what we were expecting.
Not always, it hasn't always gone as well as we might have liked.
Some stuff we've been able to anticipate and it's gone okay.
Some stuff we've tried to anticipate and it's been challenging.
What's next? What sort of pressures do you think we might face in the future?
Is there anything new on the horizon?
Or are the pressures going to be basically the same and it's a matter of facing up to those?
We're forecasting for the current year to break even.
We have had three million pounds worth of increased funding from corporate finance to help cover the expected increase in cost in CLA placements in particular for residential placements and external fostering.
Both of those areas still represent the biggest pressure within the forecast.
And there's risk, there is risk.
CLA placements, for example, can cost,
for the most complex children, 20 ,000 pounds a week.
If we have one more of those and we're sort of forecasting,
that can move the forecast really considerably.
It's about a million pounds a year
for one of those placements.
So there's risk there still.
Anything linked to the, to send as well?
So ACN transport is a challenge, as always is,
as well as the respite care.
Councillor Crivelli.
Can I ask a question which seems to have been
a perennial problem as long as I can remember
being on this committee and that was send transport
and the cost of it.
I know we've tried to do things like
the independent travel programme,
and those are sound initiatives to try
reduce the budget overall but I notice you've mentioned we're reviewing the
bus and taxi contracts. Is it realistic to expect that we're going to make any
headway there and actually have be able to put a lid on the cost there or
reduce it overall? I'm actually glad you asked that question because it's something a
little bit proud of. When we, our previous transport provider went bankrupt very
suddenly about four years ago almost and we had to procure an emergency another
provider that provider London hire had came in transition within six weeks one
of the best starts to the year of a new provider I've ever mobilized which is
tribute to the work done and the cost has not increased since then through
that inflationary time we have quite an innovative model which is a cost plus
model which takes us we work together they are guaranteed an element of profit
but then we work together to make sure we're efficient on the on the running of
services quality is excellent and we've managed to control costs and inflation
environment of over 20 % in that time if you compound it so yeah it's been a
success plus we put on two extra buses and reduced taxis
Councillor Osborne.
Yeah, can I just add to that?
Because, I mean, you did mention it briefly earlier on about the resource base in some
of our own schools.
But it strikes me that that's an important part of a strategy to deal with exactly the
problem which Councillor Cribbelli refers to.
If we can expand the resource base in our own schools and get children cared for under
this heading in borough rather than out of borough.
That must ultimately make at least some difference to the enormous cost of the transport.
And incidentally it's not just the cost, it's the damage to the care of the child as well,
this transport all the time and the disruption for the family that that child comes from,
which we need to bear down on as much as we possibly can.
Who wants to answer that?
Mr Halleck.
Yeah, definitely agree.
Our local state funded provision, shorter trip times, encourages independent travel
training.
It's far easier to travel, train children that aren't traveling for 10 miles longer.
As you say, and some of the independent provision is a long way away, sitting on taxis, very
expensive taxis, 30, 40 ,000 pounds a year.
When locally, we had a great conversation with one of our
independent travel tenders today, because we're
relocating Paddock, how that's going to be a longer distance
now for some of the children, and how they're doing some
intervention just to get them used to the new route.
It was a great discussion.
But every single one of those saves 15 ,000 pounds a year,
plus encourages independence.
And some of those case studies are just heartwarming, really.
So, I'm not going to take away from the fact that taxi transport has been a pressure for
good time, but our bus independent travel training is exceptionally good.
Thank you very much.
If there are no further questions?
Councillor Davies.
Yeah, I'm just aware of all the media coverage about AI and the amount of conferences and
so on.
I just wondered whether that's something that's going to be very effective for the Council
in terms of cost savings.
I might pass this one around a little bit, but I'll start off because I think we're all
very excited about the prospects of what we can do.
It is a bit of learning.
It's one of those things where the more you use, the better you get, the more you use,
the more you use.
So it's a self -fulfilling sort of prophecy or virtuous cycle.
So we're in the stages of learning, but I get usage reports all the time for things like code pilots
I can see how and who is using it the most and you can see that the usage is increasing specially just
laborious admin across admin in your own inbox sending sort of
Multiple emails and things that you can just do better then I can learn your style even these days, which is incredible
but outside of that we're also investing in magic notes, which is
helps our social workers with their supervisions.
It will hopefully help with timeliness
and all those brilliant basics and so on.
And I'll let Elizabeth maybe tell her,
because we've done Run a Pilot
and we're about to decide on whether to go ahead with it.
But some of the feedback is great so far.
And Lisa's also keen.
Yeah, everyone loves the magic notes.
So yeah, it's a particular tool
trained more for kind of the social work world so it picks up on what you're
saying far more we found some of the other tools kind of right in more of a
business corporate style which is not what we want on our systems and we write
to children so when we write our visit recordings our assessments our
supervisions we write them to the child that we're talking about and so that you
know we are mindful of our language but also so that in the future if they want
to look at their files all of our records are written to them and they are
able to understand the decisions or the conversations that we may have had and taken.
So yeah, currently we're trialing it with a kind of small group of managers and practitioners.
They're using it to save time writing up their visits and their supervisions.
And it is able, if you give it the right prompts, it's able to write to the child.
And yeah, it's just been transformative.
We have lots of emails asking when more people can have it.
So we're coming to the end of the trial now.
It's been hugely beneficial for time saving.
We want all of our social workers to be able to spend more time with families
and doing what they love, not writing down what they've just done with the family.
So it's been really helpful.
I hope Ms. Popovici would like to come in on this.
I had to take an opportunity to talk about this because this is a subject close to my heart.
It's a subject that can really unite people in a room or make people leave a room.
What we do in this department and actually in this council, it's a people -led approach
and there's no technology on this planet that will ever replace the need for human interaction
in the work that we actually do with communities that we serve.
And I just wanted to mention something else that we are very proud of.
It's a different kind of technology. It's a new language that unifies everyone globally
and how proud we are about our work with Apple, you know, our neighbors,
as the chosen ones were as their place to be,
and the work they're doing with our primary schools,
and the work they're doing with London Board of Culture,
introducing the language of coding, a language of future,
giving children, young people, tools for life.
So proud of that, proud of the co -pilot,
proud of all the things that we are piloting
that's already showing signs of improving productivity,
and our work experiencing, giving us all the time
to spend with in interactions that are so transformational for the communities we serve.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Anna, and for your passion on that and your vision as well.
Any more questions?
No?
So can I ask you to note this paper, note this paper?
And thank you very much.
We've all survived and not wilted.