Licensing Sub-Committee - Monday 19 May 2025, 6:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Licensing Sub-Committee
Monday, 19th May 2025 at 6:30pm 

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Thank you, Chair. The meeting is now live. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Welcome
to the meeting of the Licensing Subcommittee, which is being held as a remote meeting. This
meeting is being webcast, and please bear with us if there are any technical issues.
My name is Councillor French, and I am chairing this meeting. I will now invite the other
attendees to introduce themselves in the following order. Councillors, officers, applicants,
representations.
Apologies, Chair. One procedural matter which I omitted by accident, but just to confirm
that Councillor French had nominated for the Chair, can I just confirm for the record,
Councillor Birchwood -Davies, you're happy with that?
Yes.
Thank you. I'll pass back to you, Councillor French. Sorry for that.
Thank you. Councillor Davies.
Yes, good evening everybody.
Good evening, I'm Councillor Burchell.
Thank you, over to you officers.
Guy Bishop, Legal Advisor to the subcommittee.
It's Caroline Schauke, Chair. I'll be presenting the report to you.
And Michael Flowers, Democratic Services and the Clerk for the meeting.
Thank you. Applicants?
Good evening. My name is Leo Charalambides. I'm the barrister representing Shell and I
have with me today Donna Lockett, who is the licensing agent. Thank you.
Thank you and representations. Good evening, I'm Councillor Matthew Tiller,
Councillor for Roehampton and I'm here to speak about the Shell application.
Thank you everybody. So going on to our agenda, are there any apologies for absence or declarations
of interest for any items on the agenda. FES, please could you confirm the apology for absence
declaration of interest? I will just confirm for the applicants and the representation that
whilst councillors Davies and Burchill weren't listed as the expected attendees for the meeting,
their attendance is allowed as members of the licensing committee and they have both been able
read the papers in full prior to the meeting. Thank you for that clarification Mr Flowers.
Mr Chilambriidez, excuse my pronunciation. Not at all, thank you. I'm sorry, this is probably
a simple answer to this but I'm not sure who or what role Councillor Tiller plays
in this hearing because I don't have a representation from him.
Councillor, Mr Flowers, would you like to clarify the question?
Yes, yes, and I'll invite Councillor Tiller to correct me if I say anything incorrect,
but Councillor Henderson had submitted the representation on behalf of the ward councillors.
Councillor Tiller is attending tonight instead of Councillor Henderson as a representative
of his representation, but he would be one of the three ward councillors who the single
representation was written but he's attending on behalf of Councillor Henderson but Councillor
Tiller may want to confirm anything. Thank you Mr Flauw, that's correct.
Sir, would you like to have any further question there?
Sorry, yes, page 28 of the agenda is signed by Councillor Graham Henderson. It's signed
as Labour Councillor in the Singular for Roehampton and it's signed Cabinet Member for Adult Care
and Health and Community Safety. That's page 28, so it's in the singular. And on page 26, he opens
with, I am the cabinet member. And then he continues with, all three Roehampton Councillors
are strongly opposed, as well as references to the Labour MP. But as far as we're aware,
it's just the single Councillor that's made representations. So if your legal advisor
perhaps could confirm whether or not you've received notification in accordance with the
hearing procedures that Councillor tiller will be speaking as a representative, not
as a local councillor, that will be helpful. In the meantime, given that my instructing agent is
listening to this, perhaps if she could message me on WhatsApp to let me know if she's been informed
by the council that there is a representative, that'd be very helpful. Thank you. Thank you for
question. Mr Bishop, you're muted sir. School boy era, thank you. My understanding is
Councillor Tiller is speaking to the representation at the instruction of the
Councillor, that is it. Thank you Mr Bishop. I just want to ask, can you
I'm going to repeat your name because I don't want to keep saying it wrong.
So I'm going to ask you just to repeat it.
I have a disability so I usually have to see things with phonetically, but I'd like to be able to get it correct.
Sir, please repeat for me.
Thank you very much. I can type it phonetically and I've had every version so you're never going to get it wrong.
But it's Charalambides.
It was written phonetically in the hospital.
Whereas if you were Greek it would be Charalambides which is completely different.
So, Charalambides is fine. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Thank you for your grace with that.
Have you received any notification on WhatsApp from your colleague?
No, we've not been informed. She's confirmed that.
Yeah, I don't think we're going to take an objection,
but I'm grateful for the clarity that Councillor Tiller is here
speaking to his colleagues representation and not speaking on his
own behalf. That's very helpful. Thank you very much.
Thank you. I don't think he could.
Thank you. Mr Bishop?
I was just saying he couldn't because he hasn't got a rep.
Okay. Well, there we are. So if we can proceed with matters.
Yeah. Okay. So we have had apologies.
We had an update on who was meant to attend it. There are no declarations of interest.
to be recorded? No? Okay, agenda item four. We will now consider the first application
on the agenda, which is for a variation of a premises license in respect of the premises
known as Shell Little Waitrose, Roehampton 237 to 239, Roehampton Lane. That's Sierra
Whiskey 154, Lima, Bravo. And I now invite the licensing manager, Ms. Sharkey, to introduce
the application. Thank you chair. I'm mindful that you've
heard the members and you chair you've read the report. So I'll just give you a summary
of the paper before you. As you've said chair, this is an application that's been submitted
by Shell All Products Limited. This is an application to vary its existing premises
license. The applicant is seeking to update the internal layout of the premises as shown
on the plan and also extend the hours for the sale of alcohol for consumption of the premises,
24 hours a day, mandatory Sunday, seven days a week. The applicant is also requesting to
remove all the conditions under annex 2 of the license and to replace them with more up -to -date
conditions consistent with the operating schedule. This application was advertised as required by law.
This resulted in the applicant agreeing additional conditions with the Met Police.
This was in relation to having two members of staff on duty between 11pm and 5am each day.
All services will take place through the night hatch between 11pm and 5am daily.
The premises license order also agreed to require any third party delivery partner delivering
on behalf of the premises license order to ensure that they have all the checks in place
in terms of if they're selling alcohol to use the Challenge 25 age verification.
We also received five representations, chair and from councillors and an MP, who have made
a joint representation as discussed earlier. They've all raised concerns in relation to
public nuisance and incidents of crime and disorder and increase in street drinking.
No other representations were received from other responsible authorities.
A copy of all the representations received have been forwarded to the applicant and are available
to the subcommittee tonight. The applicant has also proposed measures to promote the licensing
objectives as conditions if the licensing subcommittee were minded to grant the license.
These are produced in Appendix A of the report chair which is on pages 8 to 9 of the agenda.
The subcommittee may modify these proposed conditions if they consider such steps
appropriate after hearing all the evidence tonight for promoting the licensing objectives.
So the options available to the subcommittee tonight is either to grant the application
as requested, modify some of the conditions or to reject the whole part of the application.
That is the application as I understand it, Chair. I'm happy to answer any questions or
any follow -up points of clarification with the application. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Sharkey. Does the subcommittee have any questions for the licensing manager?
No, thank you.
Thank you. Okay, moving on. Are there any other questions of clarification on anything that has been stated?
As a reminder, both the applicant and representations will have a chance to address the subcommittee
and this should only be where you would like clarification on something that has been said by the licensing manager.
Ma 'am, there are two conditions that were agreed with the police that are missing from Schedule A and
one condition that needs
amendment. I don't know if you would like me to clarify that now or as part of my submission.
Whatever is easier for you and your colleagues.
I feel now would be a good point just so that it's spoken it doesn't eat into your time because if it was something that should have been included and is not then I think it would be fair that you speak about it now as opposed to later.
Thank you. So I double checked the correspondence between Donna Lockett and Emiko Simpson and
conditions 15 and 16 are missing. So condition 15 says all staff that undertake the sale
or supply of alcohol, open brackets, and any other age restricted product, close brackets
shall receive appropriate initial training, followed by refresher training in relation
to undertaking appropriate age checks on such at least every six months full stop. So I
don't think the training condition deals with that introductory training. And then condition 16 says
records of all staff training relating to the sale or supply of alcohol, open brackets,
and any other age restricted product, close brackets, comma, along with any training material
used comma will be kept and maintained by the designated premises supervisor or the
premises license holder. So that's about the training material. I don't think those two
are controversial and they're there. And then condition nine. Firstly, as drafted in your
agenda, a word is missing, but in fact the police wanted something more restrictive for
that. So in the in the first part, your current condition
says there will be two members of staff on duty between the
hours of 2300 hours and 500 hours each day, then it would be
comma. Otherwise, all services will take place through the
night hatch. So the word otherwise is missing. However,
the police came back to us and said, we don't want the
premises operating for access between 11 and five, whether you have one member of staff
or two, three, four or five. So that condition should actually read and has been agreed.
All services will take place through the night hatch between 2300 hours and 500 hours daily.
So it's much more restrictive. And we and we've agreed that so if you're minded to grant
license and accept these conditions everything from the word there today comma is struck out
and all has a capital a and that has the effect of agreeing to the police restriction
which we've agreed to which is that they don't want direct access by the public to the premises.
Thank you for that additional information. Mr Bishop is anything to be stated at this point?
I see you were making code. No, in deliberations.
Okay, thank you. Okay, any other questions or points of clarification for Ms. Sharkey?
No? Okay, I will now invite the applicant to address the subcommittee and you'll have five minutes to speak
after which questions may be asked of you.
Well, thank you very much.
This is a variation application for an existing premises that's been operating in this area
for 24 -7 since 2011. There is no planning restriction on its hours of operation and so
in terms of amenity, which is far wider than the licensing objectives, your local authority is
deemed appropriate to be operating in that way.
It's operated 24 -7 much since that time,
whether it's been Shell or Waitrose or now Shell again.
Late night refreshment has been granted for this premises
throughout the night.
And there is alcohol sales till midnight Sunday to Thursday
and then until 2 a .m. on Friday and Saturday. As you can see, what we've done
is provided you with an updated layout, we've sought to extend the alcohol sales
and replace the Annex 2 conditions, which is to effectively modernize them and
bring together a very robust set of conditions. In terms of the
representations we've received, we're grateful for the cooperation we've had
from the responsible authorities, particularly your police licensing officer who's gone through
the application with us. There's been extensive discussion and has requested various conditions,
particularly around CCTV deliveries, staffing levels, and so on, all of which we're happy
to agree and reflect the ethos of Shell. In terms of the representations by civil society
and your colleague in the local ward,
you'll no doubt have noticed as licensing members
that he refers to public safety and so on.
As you and your colleagues know, public safety
doesn't mean the safety of people in the surrounding area.
It's about the safety of persons using premises.
So that means the safety when they come on site.
You can't get safer than a petrol station of this site.
It's brightly lit.
It's covered by CCTV, internal, external,
and has very sophisticated systems in place.
It's a premises at which dangerous age -restricted
products are available to the public, fuel, cigarettes,
solvents, and so on.
And it operates under a multitude of licenses
in order to achieve that.
It seems odd to them that there are representations that say,
what about the security?
What about antisocial behavior after hours at this venue?
Well, it can't just happen.
If you're planning on engaging in antisocial behavior,
you're not going to come to a well -lit area, which
is covered by CCTV.
as you and your legal advisor and licensing officer will confirm, a licensing premises can
only really be held responsible for matters on its own premises. Beyond that, the Section 182
guidance tells us it's a matter of personal responsibility. The Section 182 guidance also
tells us that licensing regime is not the answer to everything. It's just part of a holistic
solution. So the question is, is this premises doing all it can to promote the licensing
objectives? According to your police, the answer is yes. There's no other responsible
authorities engaged. It seems odd that your colleagues are saying there are numerous complaints
that one resident has regularly reported fights. There have been no such concerns raised by
There's been no such concerns about race by environmental health.
And I'm, in order to answer that, I'm reminded of the case of Thwaites, which tells us that,
you know, civil society might, as a result of feeling overwhelmed by these applications,
be affected by fears and so on, which might just be amplified given their uncertainty in the regime.
But mum, Lockett & Co have been operating as legal advisors, sorry, as licensing agents
for Shell for many years, and I've been acting for Shell for more years than I care to remember.
And I know for a fact that we don't have any reviews.
What tends to happen is if there are any concerns, they directly contact the licensing consultants,
They immediately engage, they seek to improve conditions and they're very collaborative in their response.
There is no record of any complaints on this site either through Waitrose or Shell.
So I do commend this application to you and your colleague, Nhan.
The conditions will address any and all of the concerns raised as will our cooperation.
Time -out. Thank you very much.
Oh, you're a professional at this, there. Thank you.
might have done it before. I think so. Do we have any questions now from the Licensing Committee? I
invite you, any questions from the councillors on the subcommittee? Councillor Burchill, thank you.
Sorry I was trying to get my cursor up to my hand. Yes, I was just wondering, thank you for a very
good presentation. I was just wondering, who do you expect to be buying alcohol between
two and six in the morning? And how many sales do you expect? And what's the evidence that
this extended hours is needed? Well, Mum, as you're aware, need and commercial
considerations are not relevant. So I don't have those answers. And respectfully, even
I wouldn't share them because they wouldn't be relevant to this hearing. I'm sure your legal advisor can take you to the relevant paragraph in the section 182 guidance.
Thank you.
Thank you. Any other questions from the...
Sorry, just a minute.
Mr Bishop.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't mean you can't answer the question about who would be buying between two and six in the morning.
Legitimate people about their business who want to get coming home from work, going out,
having home deliveries, we don't profile our customers. It's a 24 -hour convenience in much
the same way that you can fill up your car anytime throughout the night, stop for a coffee,
stop for convenience. Alcohol is no more than such convenience choice. Thank you for the response.
Councillors, Councillor Davies. Yes, thank you. I mean, I had a similar question actually. I've
got two if I may. One is do you have any analysis about whether these are people, you know,
commuting across London or their local customers.
Just to give me an understanding of the nature
of the business and I suppose in relation
to the Roehampton Council submission.
But secondly, I just wondered what the reasons are
for the layout, whether that's just to do
with the latest best practice on marketing
and, you know, maybe sort of thinking about the consumer, if that's related in some way to this application. Thank you.
So, Mum, the layout changes, firstly, as a result of Covid, one of the ways in which these convenience stores were developed.
They were found to be a very convenient source, particularly for third -party delivery services.
So you're at home at two, three in the morning and you've forgotten eggs, flour, milk, cigarettes,
or indeed alcohol, then you're able to call in and so somewhere like Little Waitrose or
Tesco's Express or any local convenience store can provide that.
So from the point of view of local authority and the police, these are quite attractive
because as I said they're under lights, they're under CCTV, the sort of bikes aren't revving
outside local community areas. So they're real hubs that we found local authorities prefer.
So because of that, the catchment for these types of sales tends to be fairly local,
including walk -ups. Ever since Covid, as people have gotten lazier because you can now pay for
deliveries at home, there's less and less walk -ups at the night hatch and more and more delivery
drivers. And similarly for local sales, I think it is a good question. What I do have to say is
that if you come to a Shell convenience or a Shell Waitrose convenience, and I'm not sure I should be,
well, I've said this many times in a public forum, the markup is really quite off -putting. So if you
are one of these types that the counselors imagine and fear that you're going to be out on a night
out, you've been on the lash, you want to continue, you're going to get cheap booze somewhere and then
continue with anti -social behavior in the local park. This type of store is really not the place
for you because if you're drunk and you turn up at our counter we will get a really clear image
of you, we will recognise that, we will refuse your sales and it's really expensive given
the markup. So that gives you an idea of the kind of customers and the demographics we
have. It does vary from area to area however.
Thank you. I have just one question, just more of a clarification actually because you
had inputted the information with Ms Sharkey. So as of 11 o 'clock at night, the hatch, the
doors are closed for the business and everything goes through the hatch. It doesn't matter
if I'm buying bread, milk and cheese, you know, someone, I've got a bit of a personal
shopper between 11pm and 5am in the morning, regardless of whether alcohol is, okay, I
just wanted clarification on that.
And in fact, at this store, the operator has tended to operate his closed door policy from
10 until 6, so 10pm until 6am, so he doesn't open his door until newspapers and milk in
the morning effectively.
And one final, just kind of observations last question is about where this is located because
it's not far from an A road isn't it in terms of locality, so it's off the dual carriageway
Yeah, the dual carriageway and then going up like onto quite a major A3. So just in terms of locality, I suppose there are local people that live there, but equally it is a kind of prominent location in terms of people visiting that are not from the Roehampton slash Putney Wandsworth area.
Yes, you'll either get local people on foot, delivery services which are scattered around
the locality anyway, whether they're dealing with late night refreshments or convenience
stores or people driving and collecting their fuel and therefore also stocking up. It's
not our experience that people travel from far and wide to come to a small convenience
store in this way. It's not a destination venue in that way. It tends to have a relatively
local catchment area. Thank you for that. Any other questions from the councillors for the applicant?
Thank you. I'll just repeat my script because I didn't ask it in the correct way and I don't want
to get told off by Mr Flowers. Are there any other questions or clarification on anything that has
stated. As a reminder, the representations will have a chance to address the committee and this
should be only where you would like clarification on something stated by the speaker, in this
instance the applicant. Okay, that's a resounding no. I cannot see any requests for questions of
clarifications, so I will now invite those making representations to address the subcommittee
and you will have five minutes to speak after which questions may be asked of you.
I believe that this evening that's Councillor Tiller. Thank you, Chair.
So to forestall any further objections about you hearing from me rather than
Councillor Henderson, I should say that firstly Councillor Henderson is out of the
country unavoidably. So that's why I'm stepping in. And secondly, that's Councillor Henderson,
my colleague Councillor Gates, and I have discussed this very thoroughly between ourselves
and we are sending from the same sheet. So what I'm saying here is on a piece with representation
made by Councillor Henderson. So what I'd like to say is that extending our coal sales
to 24 hours will likely increase late night disturbances and criminal behaviour in an
area that's already struggling with anti -social activity and street drinking. I speak from
personal experience as well as being a counsellor since I'm a resident and I've actually brought
past some anti -social behaviour on my way home here. I know we have our fair share of
and social behaviour already connected to drug taking and also to street drinking.
And it really doesn't need to be exacerbated by making Althol any easier to obtain.
And as we've already discussed, residents already report fights and criminal damage
in nearby Southampton High Street and Metrion Street. And on the point of doubt being thrown on
the account of
the resident who reported fights
within the premises.
And I have to say that
the argument that, you know, surely the police would know about it. Well, no, the police don't know about every fight that happens and
it's very disingenuous
to imply that
residents are either hallucinating or being dishonest when they report such fights.
and so I hope that that will be taken into account.
So selling alcohol around the clock at a petrol station
undermines public safety and increases the risk
of drunk driving and violent incidents.
The proposed hours will lead to more street drinking,
noise, litter, and disturbing residents
and degrading the local environment.
And what I don't believe has been mentioned so far
is that it's very close to a school and also to a church, to a primary school in fact.
And so allowing 24 -hour alcohol sales near the school risks normalising irresponsible drinking
and increases the chance of having underage access to alcohol.
And that's the end of my presentation. I'm willing to take questions.
Thank you Councillor Tiller. Does the subcommittee have any questions for those making representations this evening?
Councillor Davies? No.
Yes, Councillor Tiller, do you have a view on the primary school and the people that go to the church in the primary school?
Apart from walking by the premises, can you explain to me why they might be affected?
Well, I mean the primary school is nearby, near to people who have visited these premises
and purchased alcohol there, so that has to be taken into account.
Was there something about littering?
Littering is also a problem in the local area, yes, and sadly the primary school and church
grounds aren't that well secured. We've got low walls. So that is something to bear in mind if
people are obtaining alcohol late at night and want something to drink it. That's where they may go.
Thank you. Any further questions from the subcommittee?
Okay, thank you, Councillor Davies. Are there any other questions or clarification on anything
that has been stated? I can see no requests for questions or clarification. I will now
invite each party to provide any closing remarks they would like to submit. This should be
limited to a maximum of two minutes. I will first invite those making representations followed by the applicant to address the licensing committee.
So Councillor Tiller, would you have two minutes to say anything further? Thank you.
Right, yes I don't have a great deal to add to what I just said.
accept that to ask the committee to not approve this application. I mean I can
say in mitigation that I've been a customer of little wait -tros myself, you
know, I've got nothing against the establishment, but you know I for one
might well have if this goes ahead and so many other residents. Thank you.
Thank you, thank you for that and now I'm going to just reset my timer. Over to you applicant.
Thank you very much. Firstly, much has been said about age restricted and the impact on primary
school children shall have an impeccable record in terms of age restricted and dealing with
dangerous goods, fuel, solvents, cigarettes and alcohol with no issues.
With respect to the local residents and Councillor Tiller, no responsible authorities have applied
their expert mind to this and come up with any concerns.
If they had, the idea that people purchasing alcohol because they're mere scones would
have been seen for what it is, which is unhelpful because you would then go around closing down
your supermarkets, your convenience stores, and everything else that's cheek by JAL.
The simple point is that there's an operating schedule here that hasn't been criticized,
that has in fact been endorsed by the police, that's been improved with the police help,
given that there are no criticisms of that operating schedule.
There's no reason why this premises cannot operate in a way to support the licensing
objectives, be an asset in the local area, and if in the end, likely event that that
fails, it can be reviewed by your police and your responsible authorities. So given there's
been no criticism of our operating schedule, I can do nothing but commend the application
to you. Thank you very much.
Thank you. This now concludes the first applications discussion at the public part of the meeting.
After we've considered the second application, we will retire to a separate confidential
meeting room to make the decision where only members of the licensing subcommittee, the
The decisions, reasons and any legal guidance given during the subcommittee's discussion that has informed their decision will be confirmed in writing together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days.
We thank you for your attendance and we will now proceed to the second application on the agenda tonight. Thank you, Mr. Shara Lamb -Des.
Thank you very much and have a good evening to you all. Thank you. Bye -bye.
Thank you. Thank you. Good evening.
your colleagues as well. Thank you and Councillor Tiller. Thank you very much.
And Donna Lockett, thank you. Okay, I think we're just waiting.
Saad Shayan, can you just say your name for me so I can pronounce it? It'd be good for me to be able.
That's the end, yeah.
Oh, that's perfect.
That's perfect.
Oh, hello.
Good evening.
I can hear you, we can hear you.
We can hear you, thank you.
Thank you.
Hold on one second please.
Sarah, okay.
So I'll
Oh, excuse me.
All right, great.
Is it my time to represent the case?
No, no, not your turn yet.
Not your turn yet. One second.
Not yet.
Okay, great. Thanks. I just been out for a while. Thank you.
You're tight. One second. I'm just going to go to my notes.
Okay.
Okay, so we've had the formal introductions of everybody here, but just for the record, in case you weren't here,
we have Councillor Burchill, Councillor David and myself as part of the subcommittee and we're
being guided this evening by Mr Bishop, our legal advisor. We have Mr Flowers who's the Democratic
Services Officer and Ms Sharkey who is the Licensing Manager, just in case you weren't
available. Mr Flowers is there anything that you need to say at this point? No Chair, thank you
very much. Okay fabulous. Okay we're gonna proceed. We will now consider the
second application on the agenda which is for a new license, yeah premises
license for the Londies on 59 Battersea Bridge Road London and that's Sierra
Whiskey 11 3 alpha uniform and I now invite the licensing manager to
introduce the application. Thank you chair again I'll just give you the brief
outline of the of the application that you have before you so this is an
application that's been submitted by Thad Cheyenne and it's for London's on
59 Battersea Bridge. These premises are located in Battersea Park ward. This is a
new business venture chair however the premises has previously held a premises
license as a restaurant in 2017 and more recently as it has been trading as an
estate agent. The applicant has applied for the sale of our call for consumption
of the premises between 6 a .m. and 0 -2 a .m. the following day, Sunday through to
Saturday and also for late night refreshments between 11 p .m. and 2 a .m.
Sunday through to Saturday. The application was advertised as required
This resulted in the applicant agreeing several conditions with the Metropolitan Police.
These are listed on page 40 of the agenda.
The applicant also agreed some additional conditions with trading standards in relation
to staff training and offering refresher training to all staff that are undertaking duties in
selling alcohol and other age restricted products.
During the consultation period, Chair, we also received six representations from other
persons, all raised concerns regarding public nuisance, crime and disorder issues, and these
are summarised on page 41 of the agenda.
No other representations were received from other responsible authority in respect of
this application.
All the copies of the representations received have been forwarded to the applicant and have
been made available to the subcommittee. The applicant has proposed measures to promote
the licensing objectives and these are produced in Appendix A of the report, Chair, which
is on pages 44 to 46 of the agenda. The subcommittee may modify these conditions if they consider
such steps appropriate after hearing all the evidence tonight. So the options available
to the committee either to grant the application as requested, modify conditions of the license
if they're minded to to grant it or to reject the whole part of the applications with a
view to promoting the licensing objectives. This is the application as I understand it,
Chair, but I'm happy to answer any queries or further points of clarification. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms Sharkey. Does the subcommittee have any questions for the licensee manager,
Councillor Burch or Councillor Davies? Can I just have a quick one, please, can I?
Yes. So this is a completely new, the longest has not opened yet. Is that correct?
The applicant may be able to confirm that, but in relation to carrying out the license
activities for the sale of alcohol and late night refreshments. Obviously that's the part that they
are seeking for a license. It may be that they're probably operating for other grocery activities
but the applicant might be able to to confirm that, Councillor. Thank you.
Would Mr Bishop, is it appropriate that we get that clarified now? Yeah, yeah.
Suresh, do you want to explain that?
Yes, Chair. So I can confirm the store hasn't opened yet in the process of its newly opened.
Sorry, I could hear it was not open yet, but I didn't hear the last bit. The reception
was quite bad. Could you just repeat the last bit?
The last part is that the school is being prepared at the moment. It's being fitted.
Okay, it's being fitted.
Okay, thank you for the clarification there. Councillor Davies, anything for Ms Sharkey
at this point?
No, I'm quite clear on the application. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Are there any other questions of clarification on anything that has been stated?
As a reminder, both the applicant and representations, which I believe there are non -present this
evening, will have a chance to address the subcommittee.
This should only be where you would like clarification on something stated by Ms. Sharkey.
No?
No, thank you, Priya.
Thank you.
I will now invite the applicant to address the subcommittee and you will have five minutes
to speak after which yeah after which questions may be asked of you thank you.
All right um thank you chair and I will um so we heard about the application so I will
post right into giving a brief uh details about this application chair um let me tell you about
this applicant, the applicant himself, Chair, has been working and operating premises in
the city under Westminster Council for more than 10 years now. And this particular premises
he has taken over to open a laundry store. And it is joining the reputable retail chain
store chair and now this particular premises become uh empty and uh it's been weakened um i
think it is uh you heard about the history of the premises is used as a restaurant uh then
recently as an estate agents now it's going to be a local convenience store um and chair i think
we are here to looking at promoting the licensing objectives and on the
appendix page number 44 45 chair you know we had a quite a lot of us and with
the police to agree some of the extra conditions to promote the licensing
objectives so since we have agreed to the conditions by the grading standard
and the police, the conditions are robust.
And it's time that we applied chair,
I think until 2 a .m. in the morning.
Now, you know that we have amended the applications,
agreed with the licensing hours.
The moment the hours are midnight
and two o 'clock in the morning and Friday and Saturday
in the licensing policy hours.
and then I wanted to go right into chair addressing the objections based by the residents
and by looking at the objection chair there are no specific concerns raised by the
objectors and I'm looking at the page number 71 chair one of the objects and one of six objections
and tell you can read and you can see from the objections is all about the lead. I mean
their concerns about whether there is a need for another convenience store since there
are so many other stores around there. What I can say for that chair, you know, it is
about giving a choice of product for the residents and though there are other businesses area,
other retail convenience stores around the area. This is about giving a choice for local
and they have a product, a set of services. I'm going further. I think looking at all the
objects and you know what I can say they were talking about their need so about the need
and about the parking also.
And then talking about a delivery.
So section 74 particularly talking about
whether there is a maintenance may be posed by deliveries.
I think the road for park gate,
there are plenty of space to park behind on that road
for delivery and the vans will be coming over there
and bring that delivery.
The rates that are accessed by the road,
the site road, the park road,
where the delivery is coming through a lobby.
And we don't think that it's gonna cause any news really.
I think in terms of the deliveries,
I think this particular store has a plenty of options.
I mean, in order for the deliveries there.
And the other thing that they were talking about,
the
leader chair. I mean, there are no evidence provided here. There is always already a problem
with the leader. But in any case, whether this particular premises would contribute,
there's no evidence to say that. But in any case, chair, the applicant will be managing
the leader around the store. They will be cleaning and keeping the area tidy at all
times. But if not, chair, you know, there will definitely be a complaint will come because
a very public place that area is and not only from the residents I think the leader wouldn't
be welcomed by any of the neighbors also there is a coffee shop next to and some are there as well
chair thank you sir I'm gonna stop you there because your five minutes have come to an end
Thank you for your representation sir. Does the subcommittee have any questions for that applicant, Councillor Burchill?
Thank you chair. Yes deliveries and taking away of rubbish and things like that because you're a corner site and I presume Battersea Bridge Road is a red route
So you'll be having deliveries on,
is it Park Gate Road?
Or Park Road?
Have we got any restriction of time
for having deliveries
so that it's not the middle of the night or?
No, absolutely not.
The deliveries has happened between kind of 8 a .m.,
between 6 p .m. during that period.
And also on that road,
you know you heard that there are so many other stores and all have deliveries and similar to
that you know this premises also will have deliveries but it will not be uh
thank you thank thank you um i just wanted to just raise something mr bishop just in terms of a
neutrality um thank you councillor birchall for that question are those sorts of questions
something that is also more for the planning committee when this was granted as a change
of use or something or is that also within the wide arena of the licensing committee?
No, so planning is planning, I mean you see all those sort of things are outside this
application and the determination you've got to make. You're concentrating on crime and
disorder, public nuisance, public safety and protecting children from harm. Those are the
only things you can consider. Okay, I just thank you for the clarification there. Councillor Davies?
Yes, I've got two questions. The first is just the training was mentioned in one of
the conditions. What does that training look like? Is it online? Is it in person?
Thank you for that. There is a training package they have. I mean, we actually provide that
building because there are
development as well, um, on a
Famellar basis. The staff will
be going through that training
program and I will sign all the
documents they have understood
and they, um, I have taken the
training and there will be a
little test as well, so they
will be taking the test every
since six month will be giving
the translation will experience
on that since he's been
managing in city before, so the
conditions in terms of the
condition chair , I think the
Yeah, the authorities will be checking that, you know, on a regular basis as well.
Those are part of the conditions of the items.
Chair, may I go ahead with my second?
Yes, please go ahead, Councillor Davies.
So I think I might have solved the condition about the strength of alcohol.
Why do you think that condition is being introduced?
Thank you for asking that question and something that we have been discussing in the details
with the police. Although there are no problems, mainly that
comes to address any street ringing. You know, sometimes the street ringers prefer to ring
the strong bears and to prevent because they will be buying, if they are street ringers
they will be buying the proper can of beer. So to prevent that, you know, we have that
conditions. So they can only buy two. And they are quite expensive as well. So that
will actually prevent the street drinkers.
Okay, so this makes me think that there probably is an existing problem of street drinking
in the area.
it's like, absolutely, absolutely. It is not it is not actually but it is the concerns
sometimes you know through the conditions we address the concerns. It is about promoting
the licensing objectives of prevention of public nuisance in particular. And it is actually
a preventative matter system than other as opposed to something to address the concerns
that already exists.
Thank you. I have a couple of questions. First one to do with the layout and potential shoplifting
of alcohol. Has due consideration been paid to late at night people running in to still
quantities of alcohol, still things, so making sure, has that been considered and how the
fit out of this premises has been designed because you have to have three people on past 12 o 'clock
and then obviously there's vulnerability in terms of theft and so forth but especially in terms of
high value items such as alcohol. Yeah thank you chair. As you can see from the plan, as you walk
in the store, behind the tail on the right, and then also rear of the area. So it is very
difficult for people to take that and run away, but because the person who is standing at the
kill, they will be closely monitoring that. So that's kind of the reason for that as well.
In staff as well, you know, they are well experienced person who will be operating the
So wherever they need it, they will have extra staff.
And the other things like CCTV systems and things like that will prevent the science
of the CCTV system or prevent the... yeah, in terms of sublimating it.
Okay, thank you for that.
And the other question was, I don't see it listed, and maybe I'm having a look at my
documents, so excuse me that you've seen my eyes down, was just about where the display
of spirits are? Are those behind the till? Are those on the shelf?
It's behind the till chair, absolutely. It won't be outside, it will be behind the till.
Okay, thank you. Councillors, are there any other questions for the applicant?
Great, thank you. I'll say my spiel because I don't want to get told off by Mr Flowers.
Are there any other questions or of clarification or anything that has been
stated as a reminder the representations will have a chance to address the
committee and this should only be where you'd like clarification on something
stated by the applicant. No? I know that we have Sir Sharlan here he's not a
representative he's under the umbrella of the applicant I just want to check
yep under the umbrella of the applicant yes. Mr. Flowers? I was just going to
confirm that he's part of the applicant chair. Okay thank you. So we do not have
any further representations this evening in person but we do have that which was
submitted as part of the licensing bundle. I will now invite the applicant
to provide any closing remarks which they would like to submit. This should be
limited to a maximum of two minutes. I will first, we don't have anybody making
representation. So the applicant, please, if you would be so kind as to make your final
representations within two minutes. Thank you.
Thank you, chair. What I wanted to say is we have agreed the conditions with the authorities.
There is no other representation outstanding from any of the responsible authorities. Considering
that also the objections are mostly related to a need as opposed to really pinpointing the licensing
objectives. So in any case you know we have agreed a number of conditions and we also put part of the
application number of conditions to part of the operating schedule to promote the licensing
objectives. Considering all of those chair I think we would like to invite you to look at this
application very positively. Thank you.
Thank you for your last representation.
This concludes the second application's discussion at the public part of the meeting. Now we
have considered both applications, we will retire to a separate meeting room to make
the decisions where only members of the licensing subcommittee, the democratic services officer
and legal advisor will be present. The decisions, reasons and any legal guidance given during
the subcommittee's discussion that has informed their decision will be confirmed in writing,
together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days. We thank
you for your attendance and we will now proceed to go into the other room.