Licensing Sub-Committee - Wednesday 9 April 2025, 7:00pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting
Licensing Sub-Committee
Wednesday, 9th April 2025 at 7:00pm
Speaking:
An agenda has not been published for this meeting.
Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.
Good evening, everyone.
Thank you and welcome to this meeting of the licensing subcommittee which is being held
in a hybrid format.
This meeting is being webcast so please bear with us if there are any technical issues.
My name is Councillor Morris McLeod.
I'm chairing this meeting.
I now invite the other attendees of the subcommittee to invite them to introduce themselves in
following order.
Good evening everybody, I'm Rosemary Burchill.
Good evening everyone, I'm Councillor Matthew Tiller.
Thank you.
But we also have in the room the applicants
or representatives of the applicants.
We'll introduce you as we come to you, I think.
That makes more sense.
And we're being ably assisted by Michael Flowers.
Good evening.
Okay, so, and then we have a number of residents
who are attending remotely, and you're very welcome.
And thank you, all of you, for giving up time,
you know, in your busy lives to come and try and make your community better.
That's a good thing and it's always to be applauded.
Okay, so are there any apologies for absence?
We have none, do we?
And then no declarations of interest?
Yes, I just want to say that I'm a member of Wandsworth Common Mac.
Okay.
I am open minded regarding this.
I will judge it according to the public interest.
Thank you.
Remind me, did Wandsworth Common Mac put in a response?
No.
Thank you.
It is just that we look after Wandsworth Common.
This is similar and different.
I completely understand. Thank you for clarifying.
Okay, so we will now consider the application for a new premises license in respect of the premises known as Tooting Common, Lido Field, Tooting Beck Road, SW 16 1RU.
I now invite the licensing officer to introduce the application.
So I'm not sure who we have from the licenses.
Oh, sorry, I couldn't see you down there Julie.
Okay, apologies.
That's not a problem.
Good evening all.
Enable leisure and culture have applied
for a new time limited two day premises license
for country on the common event on Tooting Common,
Lido Field, Tooting Beck Road, London SW 16 1RU.
They're applying for alcohol on sales only on Saturday from midday until 21 hours 45
and from midday until 22 hours 15 on the Sunday.
They're also applying for a range of regulated entertainment from midday until 10 p .m. Saturday
and from midday until 10 on Sunday. The hours are set as in Appendix C of the committee
report for your information. The licenses will be valid for one summertime weekend only.
We don't know the exact date, but the neighbour will be able to confirm that date to the committee.
The applicant advertised the application as required by the legislation by means of placing
blue A4 notices along the site. Due to the size of the site and to ensure members of the public
can view them, notices were displayed along Tootingbeck Road, Garage Road, Bedford Hill,
Hillbury Road and Dr Johnson's Avenue at approximately 50 metre intervals. The applicants
also advertised the application in a local newspaper and that was the South London Press
on the 29th of February this year. The application was also advertised on one's with council's website.
Evidence of both advertisements were verified by licensing officers. The above application has
resulted in the receipt of 16 representations from other persons objecting to the application
and two in support. Apologies there was an error in the original committee report and
bundle which stated there were 17 opposed to the application.
Representations were also received from the Metropolitan Police in their capacity as one
of the responsible authorities, but conditions were later agreed between the Police and Enable.
Sorry, these can be viewed in the supplementary agenda published on the 2nd of April this
These conditions should be added to the license,
should it be granted.
The noise and nuisance team also agreed
a specific condition be added to the license again,
if granted that the applicants will produce
and submit a post event compliance report
to environmental health within four weeks after the event.
No other objections were received.
Therefore it is the representations from other persons
that are the matters for consideration tonight.
Councillors, I have no further matters
to raise in respect of this application, but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Ms Hopkins. Okay, so first the subcommittee and any questions.
Do you have any idea who the artists performing at this festival will be and
what the content of their music would be?
Before we go back, I would think that was probably more a question for the applicant,
as in, unless you do, Ms Gopongs, unless that's something you are aware of?
No, I don't. Only that it would be country -style music, but I don't know the artists, I'm afraid.
Council member.
I had a small query actually.
I'm not sure if this would be for you or the applicant.
I haven't got my original agenda.
I was looking at the application and the date was confusing to me.
The dates of the application.
Do I have that in here?
Excuse me.
So on the application in the pack, it says leafing through them all.
Oh, brilliant.
But it's a very open -ended application.
Yeah, which was, that seemed strange to me.
I find it.
There was the actual dates of the application,
and it seemed to be going over about a month or two,
which seemed odd.
Am I misunderstanding that?
Or is that something I need to talk to?
Sorry, I forget.
Well, the applicant can elaborate,
but I think the idea was to have a window
between those three months that they would have
this event over a particular weekend.
I think you're thinking about page four.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a typo, I wasn't seeing something wrong because
obviously it said two days and I was like, oh, that looks like two months and I'm, yeah,
I just wanted to be clear about what was actually being asked for.
So thank you.
Yeah, Councillor.
Can I just confirm then that if we give the permission for this, that it will just be
for this weekend or will we be giving permission for the three months? No it's one two -day event
over a weekend so within that three months. I think that I think I'm not sure if a neighbour
have a date now it's maybe something they can they can help with but it's it's literally for two days
and then the license will fall. Okay we can we can clarify that that later than I think if that's
Yeah, okay. Thank you. So just to clarify, you know, this is what we're deciding on this application. It's not,
yeah, it wouldn't be a carte blanche. Is that, someone on the hand?
I think if it helps in the first supplementary agenda when the police agreed conditions with the applicant,
there was an amendment that said the premises license will be restricted to allow one licenseable weekend event to take place,
excluding over the August Bank Holiday Weekend,
23rd, 24th and 25th of August, if that's...
But that's really helpful, thank you.
Okay, in light of that, any further questions
from the subcommittee for the officer?
No, okay.
And just so that everyone's on the same page,
are there any questions from anyone else,
either online or in the room?
And I don't mean, which is gonna be plenty of time
to talk to the applicant about stuff that's in there,
but anything about the actual application
that you'd want to ask our licensing team.
No, that's great.
Okay, thank you very much.
In that case, I now invite, oh.
I'm sorry.
I felt summoned like a waiter then.
Okay, in that case, I now move on to the applicants.
I see that there's three of you here representing.
And what I'm going to ask you to do, there's going to be time, I'm sure,
after the residents bring up their issues, there will be time for you to come back
and maybe respond to some of that if you need to.
But, and in the spirit of fairness,
I need to make sure that everyone's
got the same amount of time.
Because there are three respondents online,
my proposal is they get five minutes each,
giving them 15 minutes.
So you have 15 minutes to speak as well.
And what we're asking, I guess, is
why is this application in front of us,
and how do you answer some of the concerns expressed
by residents.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Dan Wales.
I'm the Senior Events Manager representing ENABLE.
I'm here with Gemma Beschwes,
she's the Head of Events at ENABLE,
and Tim Branwand, and he's the Event Producer of this event.
So what we're applying for, it's a one -time limited,
apologies, we're applying for a time -limited
one -year application to host a family -friendly
country and the common music festival within Tooting Common.
This event is aimed to be a part of the Wandsworth Borough of Culture celebrations taking place
throughout this year in the borough and then once the event has taken place over one two -day
weekend the license will be suspended at the end of that and it will take place during
the summer months.
But it has, like previously said, been agreed that we will not have the event over August
Bank Holiday Weekend.
Enable have a wealth of experience
of organizing these events.
We've staged many events within Battersea Park,
currently with our annual Battersea Parking concert
and Battersea Dog Show.
So we're quite adjusted to this sort of event.
And we've chosen the Lido Field just
because of its history of having previously hosted
the 2012 sorry Olympic torch relay
Which had up to 10 ,000 people in attendance. So that's why we went to this area
We know that the papers have previously been shared with you and it's can being covered and but we are applying
Alcohol license over the two days
from 12 until 10 15 on the Saturday and 12 until 9 45 on the Sunday and
and then
Also to cover the regulated entertainment which will be taking place between the hours of 12 and 10 30 on the Saturday and 12
and 10 p .m. On the Sunday
As part of the public engagement prior to this application and we engage with all the relevant authorities and local residents
this included engaging with the local friends group and the Mac group and we also
Delivered a information letter which went round to the surrounding addresses around the common
Detailing the application and what we wanted to do with the event
And within that letter it invited them to come and join us at either our online presentation and Q &A session
People come and speak to us directly and then we also did a pop -up information stand within the common
to be able to capture
the chance to speak to people within the park itself,
common itself, sorry.
We've engaged with environmental health on the application
regarding their representation
around the sound and noise associated with the event
and conditions have been agreed with them
which will be put in place.
And then following engagement with the Met Police,
we've agreed to additional conditions
that were set out by themselves
which they raise within their representation.
These can be found in your supplementary pack.
And then due to this, there's no more outstanding representations
from any of their statutory bodies.
And so all of our conditions that we have proposed are detailed
on page 8 to 15, sorry, in the report.
And that's how we will set out to meet the four licensing objectives
within the premises license.
We noticed in the representations made by interested parties
the key areas which were brought over was regarding noise,
the dispersal of people at the end of the event,
and the potential increase in social behavior
that would occur due to the event taking place.
And from that we've developed
a comprehensive noise management plan,
which has involved and goes into the noise safety plan,
not event safety plan, sorry.
And in addition to that, we have a security management plan
that has been developed and forms part
of the overall event safety plan.
And we feel that the development of these plans
will mitigate those potential concerns
that people have raised.
And we will continue to engage with environmental health
on the noise aspects and continue engaging
with the police to make sure that we comply with the agreed conditions that they put in
place.
And that gives the overall summary of the details of our application.
I want to hand over to back to you guys.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Okay, that's appreciated.
It's questions from subcommittee.
Let's go first.
No, you okay?
No, you.
Yes, so, sorry, so that people can hear.
So the aim, sorry, the aim would be to ask questions
of the applicant now.
When there's, because what's likely to happen is the residents will bring up things that
maybe we want to check back on with enable, so it's not the only chance, but this is our,
all the things that we need to know, this is our chance to ask them now.
Thank you very much.
First of all, there's an offence field that quite a few people who wrote complaining or
or objecting, so why is this event not going to be
on the events field?
Sure, I'll pick that question up.
So I'm Tim, I'm the event producer, to introduce myself.
In terms of the existing field that is used
for smaller events, that has been used for smaller events
up to more, 4 ,000, 5 ,000 max, we're applying for a license
for up to 6 ,000 maximum, so the space contained within
And the physicality of that location in terms of it,
how it borders on, does not make it suitable
to the purposes that we wish to,
to the event that we wish to produce.
Further to that, does not naturally allow us
to do some of the strategies that we want to do
to reduce any potential for public nuisance,
specifically noise.
So given the orientation of that area,
which includes trees actually within the area as well,
we wouldn't be able to angle our stage in the way that we wish, which is actually north, away from the most noise sensitive, or our closest residents to the south.
And a big part of the noise management plan that we've developed with independent consultant, who will then make sure that we adhere to on the day,
is around making sure that we are a big part of that tactic in terms of making sure that we aren't a nuisance and we aren't causing undue disruption,
is making sure we can point our stage away
from the closest residents, and that's what the Lido field
and the use thereof enables us to do.
Thank you.
I was pleased to see that in your application
you've said that you're going to be having asked for Angela
and asked for Clive, and so I can see that it's all very well
thought out and no glass. So are people going to be allowed to be picnics to
this event or is it and are they going to be seated for the whole period? Could
you tell us a bit more about the event in other words? Yeah no problem. In terms
of like the wider event I can speak to in terms of the content maybe afterwards
if you wish me to but just to address those specific points no glass as you
mentioned that would be a prohibited item on site won't be able to bring
those in. Small amounts of food for personal consumption will be allowed we
have condition that we've agreed with the Metropolitan Police that those will
be in sealed containers which reduces a particular risk that is of concern. So
So small amounts of food and soft drink in sealed containers.
Alcohol, no.
So the only alcohol on site will be,
that would be sold through our bars
using all of those controls, as you mentioned there as well,
in terms of ask for Angela, our bar management plan,
and in our ESMP in terms of our alcohol management plan
on site, Challenge 25, all of these things
that we would expect to see in a properly run bar.
So they'll be the only source of alcohol on site.
Sorry, could you explain a little bit more about what food people can bring in?
I didn't quite understand that.
I mean, could I bring in some sandwiches?
Yes.
And a flask of coffee?
Yes.
Sandwiches would be allowed, yes, 100 percent.
That would be a small amount of food for personal consumption.
In terms of coffee, unfortunately not.
That is not a sealed container.
So again, and that is specifically put in by the Met.
I would say it's not been put in specifically for us
because of a particular risk of this,
they like to see that condition
in terms of the risk of asset attack.
Because it is the way that it's been taken
into nightclubs before in unsealed containers.
And so again with an abundance of caution for this event
and also taking on board the conditions
that the Met wish to put in
and would normally wish to see
in licensed premises within Wandsworth,
it was something that we felt we could agree to
for this event to make them feel even more secure.
Like I say, an abundance of caution there,
I would say we do not see our audience
as having particular risks around those types of behaviors
or those types of violences, but that's the reason for it.
So it just makes it more expensive for a family to come in
if they've got to bring in bottled drinks
and can't just make up their own flask like yours.
Yeah, that is true in the sense that it would need to be sealed containers or empty containers
to mention as well, we would allow an empty water container to come in and we'll have
refill stations on site.
That's something that we would do anyway from a licensing point of view and a cost of service
point of view.
So, sorry, just to be clear, reusable flasks, if being bought in empty, would certainly
be allowed.
And small amounts of food.
We are intending to promote this as a family friendly event
where families are welcome.
So again, the idea of not being able to bring sandwiches
as a family for your kids or whatever they might need.
I would say though that obviously for these events
to be able to reach a break even,
the income from food and beverage is important.
You know, that is the reality of staging these events
because of all these things that we do,
security, staging, fencing, all of these,
the medical provisions that we do is an expensive operation
in terms of being able to provide that.
So to be completely honest and transparent,
then obviously the selling of food and drink
is a commercial income to us,
and it's important to make the event,
make it feasible in the first place, I would guess.
Yes, I've got lots of questions.
The size of your entrance and exits,
somewhere I read that you're expecting everybody to be leaving within 20 minutes,
which seems quite an optimistic to me.
And at some point I'd like to look at the plan
and see how you think your punters are going to be leaving
at night time.
And the other thing is, do you know what time it goes dark
at the beginning of July when you're hoping to have this?
So just first point first, the sunset time I couldn't name specifically off the top of
my head, but it will be pre our egress.
And certainly I'd be very happy to talk through the egress plan in terms of how in terms of
I suppose in terms of the onsite plan in terms of how we deal with hours of darkness and
then actually how we egress people out of the event and then out of the park itself
as well.
So happy to talk through that on the plan.
And on your original point, I'm very sorry, could you remind me on the first part of your question, please?
What was the first part of the question?
It was the 20 minute evening plan.
Yes, 20 minute evening plan.
So 20 minutes after showdown, I think I mentioned the majority of audience we'd expect to have left by that point.
We have good data for that in terms of from other events.
I take for instance Battersea Park in concert, we have event logs that show we are pretty much fully clear by 20 to 25 minutes after the showdown period.
The nature of these events are is that actually lots of people do tend to leave
slightly earlier whether it's on for onward travel or those are attending
with younger children and then actually during an egress period we would expect
the majority to be off -site by that point. I'd expect sweeps to be done
probably around about 35 minutes after showdown. So showdown is a point of the
final artist leaving stage so that's like the end point which would fall
within those licensed hours of 10 .30 on the Saturday
and 10 o 'clock on Sunday.
So we wouldn't go over that in terms of.
Sweep is what we do with our security company.
At the end of any event, we need to make sure
that the arena's clear.
We need to make sure that one's off and safe,
off onward and safely on their way home.
So we check all toilets in case, like heaven forbid,
someone's had something happen to them in a toilet
or whatever it might be.
We do all that things to make sure the public
have left site before we can stand down
the majority of our security.
So that's what the sweep is.
So like I say, we have good data to support that,
that on a 6 ,000 capacity event,
we'd expect the majority to be egress
out of the event site within around about 20 minutes.
And like I say, around about 30 to 35 minutes
we'll be taking sweeps then at those points
to egress any stragglers at that point
and actually close the site officially
and stand down the majority of our security
within the event site.
Just like to say in terms of external to the site,
security won't stand down until egress is complete
out of the park and out of the area.
And again, I can come on to where those positions are
in a moment in terms of our egress plan
to disperse people out,
but those positions will stay on longer
until everybody has egress out of that area
and we basically have a quiet park.
Sorry.
and sunset is at 11 minutes past nine,
so by the time people go, it will be pretty dark,
and I am concerned about the fact that you've got
so many people walking around the common
in the middle of the night.
Yeah.
Yes, I have a concern about the location.
Since I work with visually impaired people, I'm familiar with Taylor's Court on North
Drive, which is a sheltered housing accommodation, including some people with visual impairments
who I should think would find the noise particularly overwhelming.
Looking at the map, North Drive and in particular Taylor's Court seems to be one of the closest
streets to the location of the festival.
And one of those with the least space,
shielding it as it were.
Has this been taken into account?
So it runs parallel with Tutimbech Road.
It's the narrow one parallel with Tootingbeck Road.
Yes, that's North Drive.
And, yes, and, and specifically concerns around sound, and that is a road to be clear on the
south side below Tooting Beck Road.
I think what can't be seen on this particular plan here
is actually our public address system directional,
which will be north, north by northwest.
So we'll be facing away from that area.
We won't be directing any noise down south
to our closest residents there.
So as well, the scale of PA that we need to put in
for this type of event is not as large as others,
shall we say, in terms of what we're looking to achieve
on site and the areas that we're looking to have audio coverage.
As I say, the noise management plan does allow as well for monitoring points on that south
side.
Again, I need to bring up my noise management plan to remind myself of the exact location,
but there will be monitoring of that Tooting Beck as a southerly point to make sure that
we are adhering to the noise levels that we have agreed to in our noise management plan.
Again, that noise management plan has our upper levels
that we would adhere to.
We have no interest in going up to those levels
if they can be avoided.
We'd always like to reduce our off -site sound.
We do not want to cause any undue disruption
to local residents.
We're bringing on board an audio company,
which we work with extensively on our other events,
including Bath, Spark and Concert,
where we have very limited complaints
and we are closer to residents with a larger PA system.
for the areas that we need to cover for that.
They're very good in terms of making sure
that noise is localized there.
And like I say, we're working with a noise consultant
who are independent of us and will make adjustments
to noise levels as needed to make sure we're within
that plan that environmental health have signed off on.
But adding that condition of a report after the event.
Okay, thank you, thank you for that information.
I'd like to go back to the question I also asked earlier about the content and likely
lyrical content of the artists performing there, because I'm sure many people will be
aware, you know, country music comes in many different forms and some of it can have a
rather reactionary or offensive lyrical content.
And so that's why I asked about the artists who would be performing.
Yes, so with artists in terms, just to address that first in terms of lyrical content on stage,
we have a no foul language policy on stage at this event. So we're not looking to any
artists that would have sets which would have swear words. Like within them, there would be
pre, they would not be looked at from a programming perspective to reassure you.
The acts that we're looking at are, again, it's part of choosing the date, of course,
we don't want to preempt the decision of today, so we have not booked artists yet,
but our programming is going to be majority UK artists from the UK country scene, but country
as well as the associated genres, so country, blues, roots, folk, those are the types of genres
that we're working in here.
And again, we would only select artists
that have the type of content that we would agree with,
but would see as suitable for a family audience.
So I'd not be booking any artists
that I wouldn't be happy for a five -year -old
to be listening to and thinking about whether that language,
or even the content as well.
And I agree it's not just language, it's content,
attitudes, those things.
We are enabled by ourselves on being
an inclusive organization.
and we certainly would not want to have anything on there
that, and if you wanna ask stages that reflect anything
that wasn't that, so I hope that puts mine at ease
in that regard.
Thank you, before we, we will go back to you, Rosemary.
Just, I had a couple of sort of follow -ups
from stuff that's come from,
again, a number of the residents' concerns
is about the location, you've kind of explained,
I think to my mind, why it's there,
because the size and that sort of makes sense.
How sure are we, because it's not just about
being able to get enough people in the area,
it's not just about being able to point it
in the right direction, or even just get people
off the site and into the park, out of the park.
How easy is it gonna be getting people to get home,
getting people out of not just the park,
but to the nearest tube or the nearest train,
or a bus, that's one of the things that residents
are particularly concerned about.
So yeah, I know you're gonna,
sorry, just one thing.
How much of your 15 minutes was used,
because I would be really interested in seeing
this egress policy, and I think that might be really
useful for residents as well.
I think they only used around five to six minutes,
but as you're asking a question,
it wouldn't need to be under a time limit
if you're seeking that information.
Thank you very much, that's useful.
Okay, so maybe you'll be able to pick that up
and if I do ask you a question, you can go through
how exactly you're gonna clear people away from the site.
Maybe we should start with that,
because I think that's a big question in its own right.
Apologies.
So our egress plan starts at our entrance gate,
which will also be where the majority of our public
will be egressing from.
After the event, as you come out of the gate, I'm going to try and describe it here without
the map, but I'll do my best.
Any questions, do let me know.
Julie, can you share the map, please, and then that might help as well.
Thank you.
Would it be okay if I jumped up to point to do the weather forecast bit?
There we go.
Can you see that?
Yeah.
You can see it?
Forward.
Okay, so just to orientate ourselves,
we're at gate D here, gate D for Delta,
which is our main ingress gate
and also becomes our egress gate as well.
You see queue lanes are kind of set up in it.
This is the mode that it would be in for our ingress.
Those would be cleared away for egress
to make a nice clear open route out of the site.
On question as well about the dark hours of the event,
these runs here, these orange lines are festoon lighting.
So that is that rigged festoon bulb
light lighting throughout the arena,
which gives us a wrap around of ambient lighting
throughout the arena, which is then augmented
by lights from stage, which are turned up for egress,
plus sight lighting around specific points.
So, flood lighting around particular areas,
which combine with extra ambient light
from food traders, lights over toilets,
that's what gives us our dark hour's lighting plan
within the arena.
And as we come out, so at the point of egress,
at the point of showdown, and pre that as well,
to say as well, it will be those that are leaving
before the actual final finish of the event.
We'll come out of gate D, and then there'll be stewards
around this area providing directions.
They'll be assisted by VMS signs, and by VMS signs,
I mean the traffic management type animated boards
that one sees by the roads.
They're very useful for these in terms of giving
directional onward signage to larger amounts
of people as well.
So here, VMS signage, security and steward
with loud heathers.
We are encouraging all public to go,
as you turn out of the gate, left, so south
rather than north, to onward travel.
And at this point, they'll be split,
again using a VMS point here, to turn right
and through the old event field, if we want to call it that,
and onward down to Tootingbeck Road at the junction
with Dr. Johnson Avenue.
And that will be signposted for tube and underground travel.
And then for rail travel straight on
and down our existing hard standing route,
again to Tootingbeck Road.
As part of security plans as well,
there's spot plans which show where our security
and stewarding would sit.
And then if you imagine south from here,
At both of those junction points with to Tooting Beck Road. We then have additional stewards and security
Plus fence which keeps public on to the pavement rather than spilling out as you see so that met barrier style
Fencing again, we'll just keep public on site
Just keep our departing customers on the road at those first points when they come out into road again
We want to keep teaching back right moving freely again steward it points down there again
and light directing east onto the Stratham rail connections
or at this junction down here where we have people
directing down to Tootingbeck underground.
And with that as well, at that point down
at Dr. Johnson avenues, we also have some crossing points
where pedestrians are gonna need to cross the road,
then onward travel down to the tube station,
they'll be stewarded and we'll be working
with the natural flow of those lights there.
Finally down at Dr. Johnson Car Park will be a pickup
and drop off location which again will be managed
by stewards and traffic marshals from our team.
And that's where we will, that's where we will geofence
which means that we can direct Ubers and Bolts
and other taxi services to be able to collect
from that point.
So we try and order an Uber, it's very clever,
we try and order an Uber within our event site.
It will direct you like those of you that use the app
will know at certain points like when you're at the airport for instance it will direct
you down to the official pick up and drop off point.
And then in terms of lighting externally as well you see these orange lit festoon runs
again take public right down to their final destination points on Tutankbek Road.
Again it's dual use really with those in terms of being able to light the way but also it
that creates actual natural light directions
of those to follow.
Finally, there will be those that with local knowledge
that might live up in Balham
and might well want to go in those directions.
We're not gonna physically stop anybody
going in that direction if they wish to.
Of course, it's a public land, it's like commons.
We won't be, again, with park users
that might be using the paths which are always open
throughout build, live, and break.
We wouldn't want to stop anybody going those directions.
It will be informational and directional,
and also an encouragement to those that are not local
and have that knowledge, where am I going,
tube or railway, I'm gonna go this way sir,
I'm gonna go that way sir.
So yes, I hope that helps explain the egress system.
Thank you, that is really helpful.
And one other question before we go back to you
that came from one of your questions, Rosemary,
which was about, so you talked about some small amounts
of food being allowed in, et cetera,
which I was quite surprised about,
I think that's, you know, it's nice if families can do that,
I suppose.
What, that feels like a big risk in terms of litter
and just stuff left behind.
It's one thing if they've come to specific food places
that you're providing and eat,
then you can tidy that area.
If people are sort of, I don't know,
randomly having picnics and whatever,
how are we dealing with that extra sort of litter issue?
Yes, in terms of the waste management on site, we'll work with a waste management company
specifically to come and service the event.
So they'll provide bins for public use within the event and then the larger bins that then
get collected by DUSCAR and the litter picking staff within the event site as well.
So that will be litter picked after each event and then during the build as well, right to
the end when we're removing the final bits of infrastructure from site, lift something
up and there's something underneath it, there'll be a team there right until we're gone in
terms of making sure that we're fully picked on the site itself.
And we deal with that.
We're not relying on park bins, et cetera, as well, which obviously are there.
We are putting that service in.
External as well on those egress routes out as well.
Or strategically positioned bins along that route.
and down at Tootingbeck Road as well.
Conscious that there are of course street based bins,
they will quickly overfill if people do fill them up.
So we strategically place our own bins next to those.
Our litter pickers will come off site
and they'll also go along those routes
and up north as well towards Ballum through those paths
to do a sweep after egress each night.
We have our aim to be, which is a very similar system
that we do in Battersea Park to make sure
that when residents are out the next morning, well way before the next morning, out for
their walks, they should not be seeing any litter from our side that's been created by
our guests.
Thank you.
Are you ready for round two of your questions, Rosemary?
Yeah, let's go into round two then.
You mentioned that you're going to be having your litter pickers go out after dark, but
a lot of the paths on the common aren't lit,
so it's gonna be rather difficult for them
to be clearing those paths.
Our list, because we're going out
through our main egress routes
and lit ways out of the park,
they will come with head torches
is often a strategy with those as well
in terms of being able to see them way around.
So yes, they will be following the lit egress routes
that we have and along lit paths.
I'm not going to lie to you and go, well, we're going to go into every single bush and
every single little bit around the lake, for instance, but around the pond.
But we will do those main routes out.
And like I say, that will be, again, to bring those bins in.
Again, they are, so they'll either be locked or they'll be brought back onto site themselves
as well.
Thank you.
Right.
My next one is parking.
We've got the Lido car park, which I'm presuming none of the visitors are going to
be allowed to be using.
How are you going to encourage your guests not to bring cars?
Because parking is going to be really very difficult, and it's going to really upset
the locals if lots of people come to this very exciting event and be clogging
up the the nearby roads. I mean I don't know if this is something that the
council has which should be doing something about or is it something that
the events people do I don't know. Sorry I would assume that the applicants have
a response on traffic management? Yeah thank you so to touch on traffic
management you're completely right about the Lido car park is well used by Lido
users by dog walkers etc by general common users. With that we
will have during the live days it will have traffic marshals at the gate and
they'll be if you like triaging those that are arriving there and again
They're not there to stop anybody parking that that's not there to do they are there to go
Are you here for the event? Sorry if you're here for the event you need to find elsewhere to park
So we are trying to protect that in terms of for park users
So yeah dog in the back in income and the same with those that are there to use the light
Oh, so we don't yeah, so again. We want to make sure that Lido can have business as usual. That's important to as
Mentioned dr. Johnson Avenue car park as well that be controlled in terms of having app as a pickup and drop -off point
I'd say with the additional parking load in the local area,
there will be some, but again,
from our experience of metropolitan festivals,
whereby we are finishing at hours
that are reasonable for public transport.
Public transport is not directly next door,
but is local, we have two good hubs,
well, three good hubs with two rail stations
and the underground.
So there are options, there are good options
to be able to depart.
And we find that we do, with these events,
Will be overwhelming local we'll find that majority will be ones with residents
We notice from past experience of these events and then more broadly and kind of the doughnut around that will be general south London
So that parking load is not significant, and I'd say we don't I do not anticipate to be
Significant at these levels of capacity where it does become something which we know from fireworks is when at like Bassy Park for instance
That's when controls become
necessary when you're into those 50 ,000 type numbers.
Again, it's a cold evening in November,
it's a lot easier to drive,
and that convenience factor kind of comes in.
Summer events, we know from experience,
is less of an issue.
Wouldn't say there'd be absolutely no one
choosing to drive, again, I wouldn't want to stand here
and say that at all because I don't think that'd be true,
but I would not be anticipating the load
with a 6 ,000 capacity event to be overwhelming,
should we say.
Yeah, so following on from that, I'm thinking the e -bikes and if people are traveling locally
and they're not driving and what have you, there might, I went down to Park Run and there's
just like loads of e -bikes because people cycle down, drop the bike just outside the
park and whatever. Is there any, have you had any conversations with Lime or any of
the bike companies, how's that gonna be managed?
Yeah, that's a conversation piece,
and I think that'd be certainly something
we'd wanna discuss with the safety advisory group,
and also potentially TFL.
We have geofence for those before as well.
Again, which means that they need to be parked up
onto a road rather than actually within the park.
Says, well, we don't have it marked on the plan,
because this is a version one plan,
but our events would always have
a cycle parking area as well,
which would be racked type fencing,
Which allows people to park up bikes as well. We encourage bikes. Of course, that's a that's a great way for people to travel to the
events
Left own risk, of course, but we do put those for did those facilities in place be right in terms of e -bikes. It's become increasingly
They come with lots of pros they do have problems as well that do need to be addressed
Just to add as part of the London Borough of Culture
We're working alongside
organizations like Lime Bikes. So we will actually, if this event was granted, we would be working directly with them to look at options for it.
So they are one of the value partners at the moment.
I've got another one on a different matter. How are you going to generate your electricity?
We're fortunate to have lots of park power within the event site and again we need to
do our calculations on that but I imagine a lot of our stage area which is the most
drawers the lights the sound that area backstage is local to the hard standing power that we
have.
So we'll be looking to draw as much as we can out of that and able to work really hard
in the last few years to put permanent hard standing power mains power into our parks
So we do manage to run quite a few of our events,
not purely off mains power,
but we are moving in that direction
and are able to take quite a lot of the load on.
Again, in our northerly areas, I'll be completely honest,
we will need to use several generators in that area,
which would be diesel -silenced ones.
So again, we'd be looking for ones
that are not chugging away or nice and annoying residents
that would be silenced.
And wherever possible we're looking to use in the south side the site as much as that mains power as possible that we have
Installed there for this for these types of reasons again for Park mention that use and all those things as well
Sorry I've got another one because I want to understand the event I
I see you've got outdoor seating area at the top and you've got a family area and
then this other green area presumably that's for people to go to. I mean are
is it seated or is it standing and how many seats do you have? It's a standing
event so the outdoor seating area that you see at the top that is around our
food and beverage area again we haven't got into the detail of every bench
everywhere and every kind of seating area but imagine a nice kind of yeah it's
that it's that type of thing exactly that the the green area is a hatching
of our of our audience space at the bottoms that indicates when we look at
our capacities that helps us decide if we have enough space for the amount of
people that we are looking to occupy that area it is spacious in the sense
that we do anticipate that families were while we're not encouraging lots of
and bringing a box of wine and all that stuff
that people will want to sit and enjoy quite a lot of it
over the afternoon,
whether depending of course with the grass.
And then there'll be those that are more light,
far forward that will want to stand.
So it'll be mixed.
I do not, with this genre of music,
we would not anticipate it being a tightly packed audience
at the front.
It will be spread out and more picnic -y towards the back
and those that are more up for a dance maybe at the front.
I see a ferris wheel.
Matthew, are you?
No, okay.
Sorry, I do have, and apologies to residents.
I know you're sort of sitting waiting for your chance to get in,
but these, yeah, it's important for us to get these questions out.
Just, I don't want anything to be missed, basically.
Okay, so another one of the recurring concerns
that residents talked about was damage to the common,
like long term, you know, just having 6 ,000 people,
I don't know, line dancing or whatever happens.
How can, what can you say to reassure people
about damage to the common?
Would it be okay if I went and did some more pointing?
Should that be okay? Thank you.
Julie, I wonder if it might be possible to scroll downwards just to see the
bottom of the plan somewhat. Thanks so much. So in terms of bringing vehicles on
now in terms of the type of damage that we see at other events is often due to
the vehicle movements, larger vehicle movements.
It does take to build these things, as you might imagine.
Lots of trucks, lots of vans heavily loaded.
And that's often the rutting that we see,
the muddy area, the churn does occur
due to those heavy goods vehicles.
And not just heavy goods vehicles,
but larger vans as well.
And so in terms of our plan for traffic on site,
these gray lines here are all indicating ground protection.
It's the aluminium trackway, Euro mats is another product that we use which are designed
to have larger vehicles go over them.
They especially come into use, apologies, where we've had, in situations where the
great British Sun might not have had as much sun as we had hoped and you're starting
off with wet ground, that mitigates all of that churn and mitigates all of that rutting
that can occur by keeping those heavier vehicles,
especially that don't have grass tires, off the area.
And actually, we have, mindful of that on our events,
we tend to have runs that take us right round to,
you know, areas like this where we need to build structures,
areas around here, so you've actually got
transportation routes, not only for build,
but for servicing as well throughout.
Inside the arena, we'd only use plant, i .e.,
forklifts required to move kit off those vans
and around the site.
We'd only use plant with grass tires,
which again, I'm not going to claim
that would fully mitigate,
but mitigates the vast majority of that rutting and churn,
that big, those big nasty issues
that we've all seen in parks after events
or trucks have been moving through,
or whatever it might be.
In terms of the volume of people, again,
I'm not going to, I wouldn't like to negate the fact
that obviously, you know, foot, I'm not trying to say,
footfall in itself as well obviously creates churn.
It's to a lesser extent, however, it is possible
that after the event there could be some bulging,
there could be some re -seeding required
if we had a wet weather.
That's fully our responsibility working with parks
to make sure that we get any kind of bulging areas
back up to scratch for park users.
But like I say, the majority of the issues
that one tends to see is from those larger vehicles
and do have this system in place.
Thank you, that's very helpful.
I mean, obviously, that comes up because our parks are,
I'm talking to enable and telling you this,
but our parks are incredibly valuable to us
and so I totally understand why people are concerned.
Are you ready for, have you got more questions?
Where's me?
Thank you.
I was hoping to ask if we had somebody from the MAC
to ask what their concerns were about the ecosystem,
if there is special things.
But have you had a special biodiversity report?
Any things to understand the ecosystem there?
The bats, the grasses, the wildflowers,
I mean, there's a lot that we want to protect.
Apologies, I'm just going to step in.
I'm Cara Webster -White, so I'm speaking on behalf of ENABLE as a licensing consultant.
Currently at this stage, it's not that we don't care about ecology, it's just that ecology
does not form one of the licensing objectives, and we're here to discuss the licensing objectives.
I am sure we can discuss them within the event safety management plan but with regards to
the hearing, ecology is not currently part of the licensing objectives.
Thank you.
I am not sure, you understand it is not one of the things where, of course it is a concern
and I actually would be interested in hearing the response but are we allowed to hear a
response to that or is that?
I was going to say I'll defer to Guy. Guy, over to you.
Yes, I mean she's absolutely right. Ecology issues aren't a matter for the decision but
they're certainly issues that the residents will be interested in and I think councillors
are entitled to ask about them, but obviously they will be advised to make the decision
based on the licensing objectives, but doesn't stop them asking about it if they want to.
Thank you, that's helpful. So, yeah.
So within the plans for the event, we've kept our perimeter and our event site, I should
I should say, contained onto the Lido field itself,
which is used as a playing field
and other times of the year.
Again, just to mention this point,
all the paths around it will be maintained,
but I think I mentioned earlier,
there is acid grass, which is protected,
which is actually up at the northeast of the site,
sorry, just get my bearings straight,
the northeast of the site,
and our perimeter is not over that.
we would not include that area and we've excluded that from the
licenseable area as well. In terms of additional lighting within the park
we're using festoon which again comes with a much lower lulumin than big
tower lights for instance which are designed for working purposes while
these are working purposes they are actually for public loo like
illumination so that's one of the strategies there as well but yes I'd say
That is the that's our main that's our main local ecological concern is that acid grass field to the Northeast that we like
I say we are steering well away from in terms of our plans and
Again, the way we're bringing vehicles in there not and we have our perimeter means that no vehicles could accidentally go over them even as well
Just to add that we also we also
as I'm sure you're aware, have our biodiversity team within ENABLE.
And so we are actually working alongside our colleagues with our plans to make sure that
we protect as much as we possibly can.
Thank you.
I can see – oh, I thought I saw – was that – it's a legacy hand.
Okay.
It's a legacy hand.
Thank you.
Sorry, where were your question ones?
Was that – is it still you, Rosemary?
Okay, I feel like we, I'm trying to think if there's anything else in particular I wanted
to ask before we go to residents.
I feel like we might have exhausted questions from the subcommittee for now, right?
And if you want to, I'm sure you can think of some more, but yeah, okay.
I think now it makes sense to go over to our respondents.
Yeah, I'm not sure who we've got there.
But as I said, we're going to go to you.
And what we'll do is each of you will have five minutes.
But before, I suppose it's worth remembering what we're
is that we want information that we haven't asked already
that's not been responded to already,
or stuff about how you personally as residents
feel about this or what your issues are,
what you think we need to be concerned about.
But there's no need for repetition.
You know, if someone says something,
then we've got that point.
Sorry, over to you, Michael.
So just to confirm for those in remote attendance, what we'll do is we'll go through each of
the three representations in attendance.
You'll each have five minutes, and I'll step in and advise you when you've got one minute
left just to give you that heads up.
And then the committee have agreed that after you've all spoke, that's when they'll ask
any questions if they do have any. And I'll start from left to right on the screen. Mr.
Whitaker, and I don't know, Judy, if you can unshare at the moment just so those speaking.
Yeah, can you hear me?
Yep, thank you.
So I'm speaking on behalf of the Stretching Society. Can I make three introductory points?
First of all, I think our expectation is that the committee has sufficient information to assess the
adequacy of plans to deal with what probably is unreasonable disturbance to the neighborhood.
The second point I want to make is that I think the committee really needs to understand the
reasons for the scale of this event. This is an American genre event attracting visitors not from
once, where it will be from across London, South East England. And my understanding is
that there's a gap in such events this summer, hence the application was kind of chosen.
And I think the risk is that this is kind of been, the committee and others may have been misled that
this is a local event. It isn't like the Tooting Blues and Folk Festival, it is essentially a
commercial operation. But indeed, Councillor Akinola, I believe the Councillor for Tooting
Broadway and the deputy leader is on record stating this event leads to
braise money and attract people to Wandsworth and Tooting. So that explains
the scale and it kind of doesn't quite resonate with some of the communication
that's been given to residents. I mean I gather tickets are £47 .50 a day so
it's not a kind of a local kind of event. And thirdly bringing in a point that we
hope the committee won't be swayed by the pressure to approve given its
billing as part of Wandsworth's borough of culture. But moving on, our contention is that the
applicant has actually got limited information about the effects of the immediate neighbourhood,
particularly Streatham, and hasn't really understood the risks to neighbours. There's a
Wandsworth centric approach here. The closest station is actually Streatham Hill, it's not
mitigate what will be the adverse impacts and the plans aren't transparent. I mean,
we've not seen the plans. You've not had them before you, the various plans. And the society
hasn't had a response from enable through its quite detailed submission. But more importantly,
I think that there hasn't been any engagement with Lambeth Council on the impact for residents.
And most of them are actually going to be Lambeth residents who are affected by this
event. So moving on to public safety risks, what we're seeing is that the event will have 20 ,000
visitors to the Common when the Common normally as a weekend only has 6 ,000 visitors, quite a load
on it. But the event is actually being held in an area not to judge suitable by Wandsworth Council
in its own 2015 management plan for the Common. It's overridden that. The area has got poor
traffic infrastructure. I think it's a very low rating and there will be car traffic to the event
despite urging people to go by public transport. We estimate there's a conservative estimate there'll
be a minimum of 750 cars coming into the area. There are also risks of people walking on
residential streets at night to the four stations and this is a point that I think is quite important
that people are going to not necessarily go the routes that enable want them to go. They will go
to the places that they see where they ought to be going.
And that will be right across the common.
It will also be into Streatham.
And that requires a lot more stewarding.
It really requires stewarding along all four transport routes,
which is essentially four miles of stewarding.
Crime and disorder, antisocial behavior will happen
with the amount of alcohol being sold up to 10 p .m.
The common has seen a doubling of antisocial behavior
crime reported in the last few years. The proposed student levels don't look sufficient to protect
the neighbourhood and more importantly, ENABLE haven't consulted with the three safer neighbourhood
panels in the areas around the common, which I think is a bit of weakness. Moving on to public
noise nuisance, I think the event will result in excessive noise and the issue is what is...
One minute.
Yeah, for those living at least one mile radius and I think there is going to be a disturbance
across the Streatham sort of area and that isn't really being taken on board I think.
So the test is does this license adequately protect Lambeth as well as ones with residents,
noting that Enable have told us that residents aren't included in any safety management groups
or management plans. I think my concern is that there are too many risks here and there isn't
enough mitigation to help prevent the damage.
Thank you, and I think we'll now move on to Mr Matthew Hamlin and your five minutes will
begin once you start speaking. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I'm Matthew Hamlin, chair of the Tuting Common Management Advisory Committee
and for the record, a Lambeth resident. You'll be glad to know I'm not going to use up my
five minutes because the committee has had the written submission from the Management
Advisory Committee, which I hope is self -explanatory. It touches on some of the same points that
Tim has mentioned for the strategy of society. I think I would also draw the committee's
attention to the points that Tim has made. The two points in addition to what we've
said out in our submission that I would make, which I think reinforce first, one of which
reinforces Tim's point is that I live at the Balaam end of the common and I'm very aware a
lot of people will may leave the event and head northwards because that takes you to bed to fill
and then into Balaam which some people may find more convenient than going shooting back. And so
on that stewarding point and the public safety and anti -social behavior point, I think that
if this license were granted, I think more needs to be done to manage those exits from
the event area. So I'd stress that point. One other point I would mention, which is
new to me this evening, is the argument for using the larger field is that this is the
only way, place that you can put a soundstage facing north. And it's intriguing that that
argument has not been deployed until this evening, as far as I'm aware of, and I'm not sure why that
was the case. But other than that, I think our submission stands. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much, Matthew. And we'll move on to Peter Rammell as the final speaker,
and you'll have five minutes when you start speaking. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I'm Peter Rammell, chair of Friends of Tooting Common.
I think the committee will have seen the submission we made.
So I want to go over the points in detail in that.
As might be expected, there's a range of views across Friends of Tutankhamen about this event,
which has caused a considerable amount of controversy locally.
What we've put forward and what I'll be speaking to now is the balance of views of members.
Our view is that in general, occasional large events on Tooting Common can be a benefit and interest to a range of Commons users and to local communities and be a good use of the Common.
But there needs to be very strong and appropriate safeguards to protect the common itself and the interests of other users.
And some of those are being touched on in the discussion so far.
An underlying point is that it's really important to bear in mind,
it's a very important function of Tooting Common and other green spaces is to provide a green and
peaceful space for everybody in a very heavily urbanized area. Now Fenton Tooting Common can
on balance support the event as a family -friendly community event for just one weekend as noted,
But it is very important that action is taken to mitigate the potentially adverse effects
which have been noted and we would underline the importance of the action proposed and
perhaps further action to ensure public safety, need for the Parks Police and the Met Police
to be fully involved about action to protect the ground and we note the steps intended there and
would stress that's really important. Particularly on noise, again important to control the noise,
one particular point which has been touched on from other comments is the closing times,
10 .30 on the Saturday and 10 .00pm on the Sunday, which seemed to us quite late,
partly from the point of view of noise, but also as noted in one of the comments, that by that
stage things are getting dark. So we do wonder whether there is scope to bring forward the closing
times perhaps by half an hour. So important that strong mitigating actions are taken and we
certainly note and support what are being proposed. The other key point for us is that it's
important that this event, if it is approved, should not be seen as setting a precedent
for any further or considerably larger event on the common in future years. Not sure whether
that can be built into one of the conditions, but it is important that it is not seen as
setting a precedent if it's approved. Thank you.
Thank you all, that's really helpful.
We'll go to the subcommittee for questions for the respondents.
Councillors?
Anything particular?
No?
Yeah.
I think there's a problem with the noise of the concert that you're obviously concerned about.
and also the noise of people walking down the residential roads at the end of the event.
Is that right, Mr. Whitaker?
Yeah, I mean that's correct, but I mean we've not been told about what the tolerable noise level is.
I mean, I live not far, I live probably close to where the event is going to be.
And I'm pleased that there's been thought about what the Wandsworth side, about protecting people on that side,
but not necessarily from the Lambeth side.
And I don't think that, correct me wrong, that the Lambeth Noise Environmental Health team have been consulted on this, have they?
Because that's probably quite important.
But we've not been told what the tolerable noise is.
I mean, we can hear from where we are, in Tooting Common, events on Wandsworth Common,
we can hear events on Streatham Common as well. Now, the question is that that's obviously
dependent upon sort of air conditions and all sorts of things, but clearly, I think it's always
good that an organizer can say that, you know, noise will be calibrated, but actually what Wands
person calibrated noise is someone else's discomfort.
And I think it's really important that there is a kind of, that there is sort of
the decibel level is on the very lower end given that it is, you know,
it's surrounded by residential areas.
I quite agree.
Can we ask the applicant to share their noise plan?
Is that the right one? Or should we have that after we've had other questions to the...
Yeah, what I'm trying to avoid, because we could end up, if we go to the applicant at each time,
it will end up, each one will be a back and forth, so I think it makes sense to almost gather as many of these still outstanding concerns and issues as possible
and then put those to the applicants almost altogether?
Do you see what I mean?
I'm looking at residents.
Okay, I mean, again, I've got to come
and thank you again for your time.
Sorry, I did want to actually go, if possible,
to Julie Hopkins.
I just wanted to ask, and this isn't,
This isn't something that we're basing decisions on, but I am interested in what would normally
be the process.
I know that we would have alerted all sorts of authorities to this.
Would Lambeth be part of our conversation?
I'm not really sure.
It's kind of a new one on me.
I just wanted to have some clarity on that.
No problem.
Yes, actually, the Wandsworth noise team did liaise with their counterparts at Lambeth.
So they were aware we didn't receive anything from Lambeth, but they were consulted by the
Wandsworth noise team.
Thank you.
But would that, so that's with Lambeth council and I'm glad to hear that.
As, as, sorry.
So with regards to noise, we obviously there's a noise team, and we would advise any residents if they are being disturbed by an event to call the noise team and the officers would need to visit their premises just to confirm that, you know, there is a nuisance.
and they would take action, probably go to the event and ask them to turn it down.
But also, as I said earlier, there is a condition that the noise team have asked to be put on,
that they are to submit a post -event report to noise, and then that would have a bearing
on whether any other applications were put in, whether they would,
it would warrant an objection or some more stringent conditions.
but, yeah,
I mean,
we obviously are on those tables do liaise quite closely with our colleagues when
there are the boroughs are are butting each other.
um,
there is that help?
Yeah,
no,
that's helpful.
that this might be one for you,
Mr Bishop.
I just want some clarity for us as a subcommittee.
What's obviously, I mean, personally, I care as much about people in Lambeth as I do about Wandsworth.
You know, it's an invented boundary.
But what are our legal responsibilities?
How does that work?
Can we, as part of our consideration here, should we be considering what happens to people who aren't our residents?
Well, you're considering what's in front of you in terms of the evidence and the representations
that have come into you. If there was something from another authority, then you'd have to
carefully consider it. But it's what is before you that you're considering. You're not considering
something you don't know enough about. The other point to make is there is case law that
I would suggest that you can consider things local to it but not something too far away.
That's old law and it's not necessarily useful for this hearing.
You should consider what you've got in front of you rather than something you don't.
The other point I was going to make was rather important of course is that the whole idea
of the event management plans is that decibel levels and those sort of things are assessed
and fully set by the Safety Advisory Group as part of the process of leading up to the
event. And they do various tests before with the acoustic consultants appointed as well
as obviously the noise and pollution officers involved.
But yeah, that's what I would say really.
I don't know if that helps a bit.
It does a bit.
Just, and sorry, I don't think it's important
just for my own clarity or for our clarity,
because we have got residents from Lambeth here
expressing their concern.
So they are in front of us.
They've made a, if they've made a representation,
you can consider that.
Great, that's what I wanted to be clear about.
So I wanted to make sure.
Anything that's not within the papers that's before you
and is out with what we're dealing with here,
then you really can't think about that.
Thank you, thank you.
Yeah, okay, so that's useful.
I wanted to reassure the residents
who aren't ones with residents that we are,
it's not, you're not out of sight, out of mind.
We very much care about everyone that uses the common
or lives near the common.
There's a common thing in licensing
that you could make a rep living in Scotland to this application in theory.
But obviously that weighs up in your balancing exercise when you make your decision.
And of course, that's not the sort of thing we got here, but that could happen. So anybody can make a
rep and it's whether it's relevant to your decision. That's the important part, whether
it's appropriate and proportionate to it. Thank you. That's helpful. Okay. So if we can go back
for questions for the residents then.
So just for, because I think sometimes
with these hearings, things move.
You hear new information, you hopefully hear mitigations,
you hear stuff that you maybe weren't aware of at the time.
I suppose I wanted to ask, and I'm not at all assuming
that you all have the same view,
because I think that you maybe even come in
from different starting points,
But have as they've been stuffed the stuff that you've heard put your mind at rest is anything that you know
Are you feeling any differently now to how you were when you originally put in the objection to this event?
And yeah, you can you can all three of you can jump in when you're able I'll go to mr. Whitaker I
Think Matthew is in front of me apologies. I couldn't see the little number one there mr. Hamlin
I was going to say that I, as I've said, I represent an organization, so I, my personal
view on what I've heard this evening is really relevant for the matters the subcommittee
should be considering. But for the record, not particularly. I think the issues we raise
still stand. I think the position we're in is that we are having to hugely place our
faith in what enables SABER again to do at subsequent stages when we get to the event
management plan and so on. So if this goes ahead, we'll just have to look at that further
round of detail in due course. But nothing has changed particularly this evening. Thank
you.
Thank you. Mr Whittaker.
I think it's raised more questions. I don't see why that you shouldn't have had the various
plans that have been alluded to at this meeting. They're important to residents. They must
be hugely important to the committee. And I don't think there is the level of detail
that's required. How many stewards are they going to be? Where are they going to be located?
Issues around transport. I mean, the question about the issues around parking was just evaded,
unfortunately, by enable. It's fine to encourage people to come by public transport, but where
are the people who are going to drive inevitably? What are the mitigation measures that people
aren't going to have their roads clogged up and things like that. So I think it raises
a lot more questions and I would hope that the committee would agree that there isn't
the transparency and I don't think it's good enough to probably say well we just trust
and able in the end because at the end of the day yes I mean that might be so but on
the other hand there's a lot of people's well -being their kind of lives will be affected for a
weekend where it could go considerably wrong.
Thank you. Mr Remo.
Thanks yes just for completeness. No but I don't think there have been any particularly
new points for me. I think we've been aware of the various points that ENABLE have raised
and we're grateful for them and grateful for the description, but in broad terms,
Enabler describing the event as they have proposed it, which is entirely reasonable.
So no new points for us. Thank you.
Thank you. That's helpful just for our own deliberations. I look back to the Committee
again for any follow -up questions before we... Oh I'm sorry I missed a bishop. I'm not sure
if I made the point clear before but obviously the whole point of the Safety Advisory Group
as it gears up towards and considers the management plans as well as gears up towards the event,
It is that that would be, you know, the need to agree that plan that is, that is, you know,
doing it on the benefit, for the benefit of the residents as opposed to it just being
enabled doing it.
I hope that sort of assists because obviously those officers or police or whatever they
are in the Safety Advisory Group will all have their expertise in their area to be able
to deal with and manage the process going forward. They also have powers themselves
if they wanted to take action.
Thank you.
Councillors?
Sorry. I want to understand what your noise plan, the noise management plan is and the
levels, is this something that has already been decided? And we can ask. Oh, Mr. Bishop
is shaking his head. I like to ask it. You know, you could certainly ask about it and
hopefully enable will explain it to you as much as they can. But just bear in mind that
the whole point is that the condition that you're imposing or proposing to impose would
make for example, noise pollution and various other departments or teams or responsible
authorities I should say, you know, debate amongst themselves and then get approval for
the levels that need to be set and also other measurements for noise pollution. That's all
I would say. But perhaps you want to ask them.
Yeah, okay, so we'll save that as another one to ask at the end. But you may know. Okay,
So I think now, sorry, the reason I was trying to get your attention, something fleshed up,
so I'm five minutes left.
I think now we can go to wrapping up then in that case.
I think we can.
So if the committee does have questions to the applicant, it's your right, you can carry
on.
I think it's just worth clarifying.
It's not a cross -examination between applicant and representation.
but if you've got those questions that have come up from the representations, you can
now ask it to them. And obviously, at the end, each party will have their opportunity
just to provide a few closing remarks. But I think you did have a few questions you wanted
to ask.
Thank you. I think that's a neat way of doing it. Yes. Okay. So based on that, we will have
a few more questions for the applicant. And then what we'll do, just so that residents
know what's going on, is I'll ask you guys to sort of sum up in a minute. And the same
from, oh sorry, the residents will sum up
and then the applicant will sum up.
So this is our chance now to ask any extra questions
that have come up from that,
from the applicant's subcommittee.
The noise plan.
So yes, I think to address the noise plan
And actually, the full suite of event management plans,
including our crowd management plan,
our main ESMP document, our medical management plan,
our risk assessments have already been developed
and were submitted with the application.
And that's actually what's been reviewed in regard
by the statutory authorities.
So the Met Police have reviewed our security plans,
which includes our deployments,
which was a point that was made,
and have reviewed that, and they've applied a condition
that they would like to see one to 100
in terms of attendees versus SIA,
which we have agreed to as part of the conditions
and is reflected in our plans.
Similarly with the noise management plan
that was developed by the audio consultants,
so again, I think it was alluded to,
I think it was touched on by someone,
they do do the modeling of what the expected noise limits
or what the expected noise propagations will be
at the nearest resident points.
That has gone through environmental health
and they've commented back that they would be minded
to see that go through.
They're not imposed any specific decibel limits,
we're gonna come back to that in a moment,
but they have asked for a post report
so it can be looked at and analyzed afterwards.
We are looking to go no higher than 70 dBA
at nearest resident, that is over 50 minutes.
Now some complicating kind of science to that
in terms of audio science,
but however that is the limit
that we are applying to ourselves.
It's actually five DBA lower than most parks in London,
so comparably it's lower, and our target level,
where we'd hope to be, is 65.
That 70 gives us an upper to go to as a limit.
But that's at the nearest residence point.
So those limits have felt, again,
that noise management plan has been reviewed
by the experts who are in environmental health
in terms of that and they're not flagged back
or not requested any additional above and beyond
that plan that we intend to stick to
and we've essentially committed to
as part of our event management plans.
We intend to adhere to that and not change that.
So that's, yeah, that was the point
around the noise management plan
and just generally around the transparency around plans,
these have been submitted.
Thank you.
As an additional one on that,
Can I just be clear with the noise testing
and whatever that was done,
that was done around the entire common,
that's not just the residents on,
what was it called, North Road or what, not just the,
yeah, not just those residents
because they're the ones closest,
does it also bear in mind people on the Lambeth side?
Correct, yes, so the modeling exercise,
so it was obviously not a live test,
we haven't gone and put a PA in the park,
but the modeling exercise takes into consideration
the propagations throughout all the surroundings,
so all of those surrounding roads,
north, east, and south around us, all of those points,
and we're looking to adhere to that
at all of those points around the park,
whether that's north or south or west or east.
And will that be monitored all day, both days?
Yes, there'll be a noise monitoring team on site
that will collect that data,
and that is the report that's been requested.
So they collect that on calibrated noise
and monitoring equipment at those agreed points
which have been agreed with Environmental Health
as part of that noise management plan over both days.
And that tabular information of all of those readings
is what goes into that post report
that's been requested as a condition.
and I think that's a good question.
Thank you.
And another one for me.
The timings.
Now, one of the couple of the submissions were quite concerned about the noise going on,
especially from the event as it's sort of been described, you know, family event, country, western,
all that sort of stuff.
It does seem quite late.
Is there any flexibility or, you know,
So why do you need, or why do you think you need
the license until that time rather than
signs that were suggested, which would be like
sort of half an hour or so earlier?
What's the reason for the timing?
So on the timing, so to stress that in terms of
family friendly, and this did come out actually
in some of the feedback and some of the objections
that came through, we are a family friendly event,
but we're not aiming this specifically as a kids event.
So everything within it, as we discussed earlier,
will be a family -friendly nature with family area,
kids activities within it,
but it is also for adults as well.
We wouldn't shy away from that for a moment.
In terms of being able to stage a show like this,
it is of the genre to be able to go to that point
that the final performance can be done in darkness
to add to the atmosphere, to the lights.
What I would draw attention to is our requested hours
are 10 .30 on the Saturday, 10 o 'clock on the Sunday
with a bar service time, alcohol service time,
15 minutes before that, which we think is comparable
to within that genre of outdoor events
and actually is a lot earlier than other license premises
that are around the area as well.
So again, we're doing that as well.
We wouldn't be requesting later.
We don't want to be putting out people
while other license premises are as well.
So again, that's the reasons that we,
I suppose A, asking for those and B,
that we feel is to be reasonable.
Thank you. That does bring up another point. If you're saying that the bars are open until
15 minutes before you close and are hoping for people to leave, that feels like go and
grab a load of beers or whatever and go off onto the common. How are you sure that's not
happening?
The licence we apply for is for on sales only, so we will not be allowing people to take
drinks out into the common at the end.
From experience, bars do slow down very significantly
as you move towards, and so I do feel
that 15 minute drinking up time is appropriate.
And like I say, we will have, as I mentioned
in our egress plan, up at that entry point,
we will have security and stewards making sure
that drinks are left within the event.
Any?
You were sort of comparing this to other licensed premises, which are indoors, don't have so many people,
and don't cause quite such a disturbance to the local community.
Because I think this, the local community is going to be listening to probably very nice music.
But for 12 hours, not 10 hours, and it will be loud and disturbing.
And I agree with the residents that, you know, going on until 10 .30 at night for the music,
and then they're going to have quite a few of these 6 ,000 people walking down their roads,
singing along to the music they've just been listening to,
or shouting at their friends, or shouting at somebody not to run across the road.
It's going to be... They're going to have disturbance for quite a long time,
because it's quite a long, also quite a long walk to each of the stations.
I mean, I don't know if you tried walking it,
and have you tried walking it when you're drunk?
and you know it's going to take your guests quite a long time to disperse and for calm to settle over to Tynkoman and their neighbours.
Is that a question? That sounded like a statement.
Let's go up at the end of this.
Do you appreciate that this is what we're all worried about?
I do appreciate the worry and I think especially when there's experiences of other events at other parks
where the profile of the audience is different to this.
And I'd say in terms of that, those fears around high levels of antisocial behaviour resulting from dispersing audiences,
I point to the genre of event, which is, to be frank, a more mature demographic, is medium
rather than heavy drinking, is not as young and not as lively, not as energetic, and is
very family -focused as well.
In that regard, it is not the genre that encourages some of those antics that one might see with
other profiles of audience and younger and that, not to again generalize about all young
people.
I suddenly feel like a very old man doing that.
But yeah, but yes, so, but again, I'd say we don't want to say that they that we say
there's going to be zero risk of that.
And that's why we have those that's why we have those measures in place in terms of as
people are dispersing out of the area on Tootingbeck Road and then thinning out into into the area
at those key points, having them stewarded
and security at those points to make sure
they are well managed off the site.
Thank you.
Okay, so any more questions, Matthew?
Okay, so thank you, everybody.
And this has been, we've been more thorough
maybe than we are with some applications.
I think it's, as I said at the beginning,
and our comments are important,
and I know it matters to people,
so I think it's really important
that we interrogate this plan
and have a really clear understanding
before we make any sort of decision.
So what I'm gonna do now is,
I'll ask, I'm not sure how we're gonna do this.
So does one resident make, sorry,
sorry, Michael, if you've got a plan?
I think it might be beneficial,
given the amount of discussions held,
if each party, I think we normally offer
two minutes per person,
just to provide any closing remarks. And again, this is more just opportunity for each party to
give kind of food for thought for the councillors before they go in to make their decision. And if
it helps, I'll start with Mr. Whitaker, and your time will start when you speak, if you do want to
say anything. Yep, I do. I'm very worried that I haven't seen the submitted plans. And neither
view, which makes me wonder whether you can adequately judge what's being proposed here.
The second point is at what distance will people be able to hear the event, which I
think is crucial and that again isn't explained. The third point is that a lot depends on this
safety advisory group and we've been told by in Mitchell, the CEO of Enable, that residents
aren't involved in that group. So the risk is that you leave something to experts but don't actually
have a local input into that. And I think just a final point is that the profit from this event
won't be going into the common won't be investing in the common and I think that for a lot of people
they don't quite understand the economics of it or who are the beneficiaries. It certainly I don't
think is the common or the local community.
And Mr Hamlyn.
I don't have any further closing remarks. Thank you.
Thank you for the confirmation. And Mr Rammel.
Thank you. Just in summary, and as before, we on balance for instituting common on balance support the application,
but do feel that the mitigating actions which enable have described and perhaps further ones
which the committee might feel appropriate are really important to ensure the interests of the
common and of other users, among other things in terms of the end time for the performances on each
evening. And we also feel, as again mentioned, that if the committee do decide to approve
this application, that it should not be seen as setting a precedent for the future. Thank
you. Thank you, all of you. And as I said at the
beginning, thank you so much for giving up your time this evening to come and input into
into this, without hearing from the people
who might be impacted, it's really hard for us
to make any sorts of decisions, so thank you again.
I now ask the applicant, so is it?
Sure, so up to, but you don't need to,
you're not obliged to take all of that time.
Hi, so thank you all and thank you for your questions,
we really appreciate it.
I believe that we have addressed all the concerns raised by authorities and local residents
through the comprehensive planning and engagement that we have conducted.
The necessary conditions regarding noise management, security and public safety have all been agreed
upon with the statutory bodies and we are committed to running a really smooth, well -managed
event in full compliance with the licensing objectives.
and we believe the conditions that have been outlined
in the application do meet the four objectives
within a premises license application
and we hope that you feel the same
and yeah, thank you for your time and considering.
Thank you very much, that's appreciated.
I'm looking around, normally there's a hand
or something, wonderful.
Okay, that now concludes this part of the meeting.
The decision, the reasons, any legal guidance given during the subcommittee's discussion
that's informed their decision will be confirmed in writing,
together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days.
And thank you, everybody, for your time.
We'll now go into closed session and make our decision.
Thank you.
- 25-134 - Report, opens in new tab
- 25-134 - Redacted Bundle, opens in new tab
- Supplementary Email - Metropolitan Police, opens in new tab
- Background Document - Applicant Supplementary, opens in new tab
- Country on the Common - Briefing Slides, opens in new tab
- Letter to Residents, opens in new tab
- Tooting Lido Letter Map Area, opens in new tab
- Tooting Lido The Spinney Estate Letter Map Area, opens in new tab