Housing Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Wednesday 22 January 2025, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Housing Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Wednesday, 22nd January 2025 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

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Okay, so welcome to this meeting.
My name is Councillor White and I am the chair of the Housing Overview and Scrutiny Committee.
So members of the committee, I will now call on your names, in alphabetical order.
Please switch on your microphone to confirm your attendance.
So, Councillor Austin.
Here.
Councillor Ayers.
Here.
Councillor Goshane might be late or he's not going to be here.
He's not going to be here, right.
Councillor McLeod.
Here.
Councillor Rigby.
Here.
Councillor Tiller.
Here.
Councillor Varifaraj.
Here.
And so we've had apologies now from Councillors, Mr Graham -Gavinia and Councillor Cauchane as well.
I would like to welcome Councillor Richard Jones as Leader of the Opposition,
who will be joining the committee in its discussions this evening under Standing Order 66A.
I would also like to welcome Councillor Dickardam as the Cabinet Member for Housing,
and Mr. Thomas Glockner as the newly elected Vice Chair of the Borough Residence Forum.
Congratulations and welcome, Mr. Glockner.
And Mrs. Marlene Price, the outgoing Vice Chair of the BRF.
And Marlene's been a member of the BRF for 40 years and been Vice Chair for around about
25 years, I think, or 23 at least, yeah.
And so I think it would be a miss
if we didn't mention a few things about Marlene,
who has been such a stalwart of the committee.
She's also a member of ARCH,
and has also been part of tenant groups
government, tenant groups and government, various government committees, and also within
the council as well, various focus groups she's been a part of and has been really,
really helpful for us.
And I think since I've been chair of housing, it's been a pleasure to have her on this committee.
And I'm not just, I'm not saying you've got a hard act to follow.
But I think I just said that.
But this will be her last meeting and I think you wouldn't go, Miss, if we all give Marlene
a round of applause for coming.
Thank you.
And I think Mr Werthers, the head of housing, has got a couple of things to say, or possibly
do.
Yes, just to echo the chairman's comments.
And on behalf of the officers, thank you.
I've been here.
I'm not really.
I know, I know.
But we're thanking you for your service in this role, not more general, you know, not
not because you're stepping back from the work you do in those many other roles you perform.
So on behalf of the officers, just to thank you and echo those words,
we have got you a small gift to mark the occasion and yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Marlene. Well done.
Hello to give a reply.
You will be, but you mentioned I'm not going anywhere, but you'll have to go and get a vase at least.
You can be for the members if you want to pass the bottle round.
Did you want to say a few things?
I apologize. I need to remember that now. It's the last time, isn't it?
Thank you to Councillors Givinda and Dick Denserie, which is Ravi and Eydin to me, for your very kind email messages.
Thank you Morris. Thank you very much for your message tonight. Thank you to all for your for your
Good news good news as I've said to BRF. I will continue to be diligent for the benefit of all the residents
I have made good relationships over the years and rest assured if I need to I will continue to be the pain in their bum
Next one to be 40 years since I attended my 40 BRF meeting in its many different names and in those early years
wow, some of those meetings were difficult.
I must have been doing something right
as the residents fell to shore to continue to elect me
and look after their interests.
Before I present any of the papers,
I'd like to congratulate Tom, Thomas,
I'll be official now.
You can comment if you want.
Can I?
In taking over the baton,
Thomas is pretty new to RA matters
and he's asked me to assist him, which I will do.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Arlen.
Okay, with so far white material from my eye, we'll carry on the meeting.
So we also have a number of officers present who will introduce themselves when they address the committee.

1 Minutes - 28 November 2024

So the first matter is the minutes from the 28th of November.
Are there any objections to confirming the previous meeting of the 28th November as a
correct record?
Yep, okay with that, good.

2 Declarations of Interests

And so next item is declarations of interest.
I will start by saying I am a member of Community Renewable Energy Wandsworth, which is CREW,
And they are involved with the council at various levels around community energy.
But I draw no financial benefit from being involved.
Anybody else?
So Matthew?
Sorry, Councillor Tiller.
I'm a council tenant.
Okay.
Councillor McLeod.
I'm a council tenant also.
And Councillor Osnane.
I'm just making really aware that I am one of the papers this evening that I
run a
Company this operates the lettings and sales business within the borough
Councillor dictating. I'm a member of the London's renters union, which is relevant to the licensing scheme paper and miss promise
Thank you. Just to let you know that I am a leaseholder on the Winston, New York Road estate of which I will be
Giving a little talk on behalf of the residents. Thank you
Thank you very much.
So the next item is so Marlene is very much dominating this meeting so far and she's continued
to do so.

3 Borough Residents' Forum - Report of meeting held on 16 January 2025 (Paper No.25-16)

We're on to the borough residents forum.
Would you like to make a few comments on that, Marlene?
Thank you, Chair.
All that I will say is that we reviewed the rent setting paper and we are happy with the
contents.
However, I'd like to draw members' attention to paragraph 3 of our Borough Residence Forum
paper, and particularly the comments made on bottom of page 2, paragraphs 4 and paragraphs
5 and 6 on the top of the following pages.
And therefore, your approval of this paper may be subject to some modification on the
charges in relation to two of the blocks, which are now in the metering system, and
the outstanding questions on whether the gas supplied will be at the hedge price and the cost of daily standing charges.
They were also concerned that some of the elderly residents that may no longer be entitled to the winter fuel allowance
would find the fluctuating prices using the meters rather difficult than they will accept
its static weekly charge and not use the heating for fear of running out of money.
And it's on page 351, 357, and 358.
Those are the blocks that I'm talking about.
Which are Castlemain, which is on 351.
Mitchell, 357, 358.
And I think Smallwood is on 351 as well.
Those are what I referred to in the small one.
I can't remember which page it's on, but it's top of page 353, small wood.
What I, all that I was comparing there is for Castlemane and Smallwood, the heating
and the, sorry, the repairs and maintenance, which is normally picked up by the heating
and, sorry, picked up by HRE for the other two blocks that I mentioned, and I know Tom,
you're going to say something, the other two blocks that I've mentioned, the residents,
the tenants are picking up the charges rather than it going to the HRE.
I'm going to see something.
Thank you.
Thank you.
So, yes, in relation to Mitchell House and Shutterworth Road, it's a type I want in the
appendix of the report, so the tenants in those blocks aren't being charged for the
repair and maintenance element of the heating and hot water charges.
So we'll obviously make sure that's amended, and apologies, and thank you for spotting
that.
So, Tom, can you introduce yourself?
Oh, sorry.
Yes, I'm Tom Crawley. I'm assistant director of residents and estate services
And in relation to whether those on metering and billing benefit from the hedging yes
They do because it's all procured in the same way through the laser contract
So they would benefit from the same changes as other residents on a communal supply would do
You ensure that those residents that are gone on to the meeting I'm talking about the elderly
We know of that 80 -year -old who wouldn't put on the heating.
Of course.
We've got some really severe weather.
Thank you.
So the way it works is the sort of billing is monitored, and the financial inclusion
team are then basically referred to cases where there appears to be issues with the
payments on those accounts.
And then they will then intervene, and so will the tenancy support team if needed.
So there is that support there.
And also there's the potential to make kind of an emergency sort of cover basically so people won't get cut off
You know if there's exceptional circumstances, so there's lots of support there in addition to everything obviously the council's doing in terms of warm packs and
You know the cost of living spend as well
If any of the members have any questions, I'm happy to answer. Thank you
Mr.. Glockner would you have you got any comments to make it off you know really surprised?
I actually don't, but for this evening Ms Price is going to take the lead, so I'm just
going to sit back and observe.
No worries, okay.
So are we happy to note this report for information?
Brilliant, okay.

4 Alton Renewal Plan Update (Paper No.25-8)

So onto item 4, which is the Alton renewal plan, and we have officers Richardson, Singleton
and Moore.
Much more.
Yeah, just to introduce ourselves, my name is Joe Richardson.
I'm the interim director of development and place delivery.
Good evening.
I'm Anna Singleton.
I'm head of regeneration for the Alton.
So, yeah, thanks, Mr. Chair.
We'll just do a brief introduction and highlight a couple of the salient points in the paper.
As you see, the paper is an update on the Alton renewal plan, including progress on
a range of different work streams, which Anna will highlight a few salient points on those
in a moment.
We're asking for approval to let the main works contract for the alternate activity
center upgrades and down to field upgrades there.
So great to see some progress there moving forward.
And as I said, with that will be a requirement for the general fund budget variation for
the same.
So, but yeah, I'll hand over to Anna to bring a few of the work streams to light for what
up to these days.
Thank you, Jay.
So this is really just to highlight
some of the key areas that have been delivered
since the Alton Renewal Plan was launched back in June.
There's, as per paragraph 11 of the report,
there's sort of four major projects
that have so far been delivered.
The Rahampton Family Hub, situated at 166 Rahampton Lane,
which is bringing together a variety of family
and children's services sort of within one venue
and is already making a really huge impact,
positive impact on hundreds of families
in the Roehampton area.
There was also two new bus services
that have been delivered directly benefiting
residents of the Alton but also the wider Roehampton area.
A collaboration with the Roehampton University
that has a bus service that operates
between Asda in Partney Vale
and Putney Bridge station.
The council has negotiated with the university
for that now to be available for public use as well.
And I do have some statistics that have come through
sort of hot off the press,
that since the start of that service,
which was in September of 24,
there are now over 46 ,000 additional trips
that have been made on that bus since this time last year,
which works out at approximately 604 extra passengers per day
using that service compared to last year
when it wasn't available to the public.
So a huge uptick in passengers
and that will obviously predominantly be people
that live in that area on that route
directly connecting them to places that they need to go.
The council is also in collaboration
with Wandsworth Community Transport
launched a sort of minibus service
that operates throughout the estate.
It operates between the Alton Estate and Tooting Market
and St. George's Hospital on a Monday,
and it goes directly to Asda and around the Hampton area
on Tuesdays.
They also have a program of sort of outings
that can take people further afield,
sort of to areas of interest, garden centers,
that sort of thing.
Don't have any direct statistics on the numbers,
but it's certainly been incredibly well received
and being well used by residents.
And then the warm packs, which obviously is a
borough wide initiative, but there was a specific
launch of that in Roehampton Library on the
27th of November, recognizing the significant
proportion of residents on the Alton Estate who
are sort of, you know, fit into the more vulnerable
category and for whom the warm packs is making a
really significant difference.
If you look at paragraph 12 of the report, this
outlines in much, much more detail kind of where
we're up to with progressing some of the
other elements across a variety of different work streams.
But I would just highlight your attention
to a couple of the notable things that are being delivered.
The phase one of the maintenance works
to estate carriageways and footways is now complete.
So that is the areas of carriageway and footways
that were identified as being in the poorest condition
have now all been fixed.
So we are moving on to phase two and that is progressing.
and also the completion of the housing development of Frontley Way, now known as Gerald House.
That's 14 new council homes completed and all tenants moved in in October 2024.
Just to close off our introductions, just to note that HCA Architects were appointed
in August 2024. They've had some great consultation events today and we've had some super feedback,
which is helping to shape those proposals with reward.
And of course, we will report back with further updates
to committee during the year ahead.
Excellent.
The transport part of that was really exciting,
given that Roehampton is very isolated, very down there.
So that's fantastic news.
OK, any questions on this paper?
Yep.
Yep.
Thank you very much, chair.
On paragraph 13 and then on paragraph 19, it said residents feedback suggests that projects
have been well received to date.
Has there been a survey carried out to support that or was it just from conversations and
chatting and if there has been a survey can we see it?
And on number 19, it said a provisional program has been put together which will allow for
a resident's ballot.
Can we see size of the provisional program as well?
Thank you.
So in terms of the feedback across the sort of the wider ARP program, it's largely verbal
feedback at this stage.
As the paragraph there highlights, we're in the process of setting up a more formal monitoring
process, and that will form part of a future update that will come back here, which will
set out and explain exactly how that will work, so that we do have a much clearer idea
of measurables of how well these programs are being delivered and being received.
In terms of the program leading up to the ballot, we will happily circulate that.
It is just milestones of the consultation events running up to that.
So we are happy to set them up.
Any more questions?
Marlene.
Thank you, Chair.
I am very, very, very, very pleased to hear about the transport facility, the well -used
transport facility.
Another one of my hats that I wear is on the Patacy Power Station.
And as you know, Patacy Power Station is supposed to be using the residents of Wandsworth for any of the work that they can do.
They had a concern about the residents from Roehampton not being able to get to the power station because it's a long haul.
And they were even considering running a bus so that they can do something.
So I'm very pleased to hear this and I hope that whatever bus that they have
If they get if they get a job at one at the car station
It connects to something that they can get there rather than the three buses or whatever it was that they used to use
Thank you very much. And thank you for that
Council
Yeah, I was just gonna say it to flag it for the committee that they're going to be workshops over the next couple of weeks
maybe Anna you could remind me of the dates because I haven't got them with me, but these are going to be workshops where
HGA starts to showcase some of the proposals and so
Councils on the committee who are interested in the kind of direction in the milestones. It'd be worth dropping them on those
So that's just the kind of for your information
Thanks, Councillor Dickard. Yes, so a
Program of engagement is being drawn up at the moment the main focus event of that will be Saturday the 1st of February
No, sorry, it's actually the first of March.
And that will be a sort of a drop -in event
that will really cover all areas of the Alton Renewal Plan.
Obviously there's been a lot of focus so far
on the sort of the housing strand of this,
but we feel it's very important to make sure
that all of these projects that are progressing,
as you can see, huge things are being delivered here.
So the idea there is that all service areas
will be represented at a drop -in event.
It will be hopefully held at the Family Hub
at 166 Roehampton Lane.
We're just waiting to confirm on all the details of that,
but we'll start publicizing that very soon.
In addition, there will be a follow -up drop -in event
in Roehampton Library the following week.
Again, when all those details are absolutely confirmed,
we will be publicizing that,
and that will be much more just focusing
on the updated housing proposals.
We are additionally sort of meeting with
smaller local groups as well,
but these are the big events that you might be interested
to come along and learn a bit more of the detail
of what's going on.
Thank you so much.
No more questions?
Are we happy?
Oh, sorry, Councillor Tiller.
Not really a question.
I just wanted to say briefly,
as a Hampton Councillor and resident,
that I'm very pleased with where we got to.
I didn't dare hope we'd ever get to anything this positive for my board.
So thank you for everyone.
Thank you to everyone involved and everyone who's got us to the stage we're at.
And let's hope things continue to improve for the area.
Fantastic.
Oh, I think Councillor Osteen.
Thank you.
I've got to do the work of four people this evening.
On paragraph 31, this is my last one on the promise on this paper, is the cost of works,
we've got the activity center at 2 .3 million and the downshift field at 4 million estimate.
Because I'm one of the newest to the committee almost, is there any benchmarks for that and
How are the figures stacking up against what you were expecting?
Yeah, we benchmarked the budgets, I mean the budgets created by our technical consultants
and QSs, so these are the numbers that we're expecting.
Of course, we subject to market testing, but this is the project we're lined up.
So yeah, we do work with a range of technical consultants and that would very much inform
that estimate.
Okay, are we happy to accept recommendations A to C?
Yep.
Okay, fantastic.
Okay.

5 Winstanley York Road Update (Paper No.25-9)

So next paper is the Winstanley York Road update.
And that is Mr. Richardson.
Yes, sir.
I'm going to reintroduce myself just for completeness if anyone has just logged in.
I'm Joe Risson, I'm the interim director of development and place delivery at the council.
So just a brief introduction to the paper.
So the paper is really about accelerating delivery on the Winstanley uproad regeneration.
We are seeking approval to apply with the demolition of Penethorn House and Arthur Newton
House once vacant possession is secured.
I'm pleased to report that Block 5 will shortly be completing.
We're expecting people to start moving in there in April this year.
So I think everyone can see from the outside at least that it's a really striking building
and a great example of the work we're doing there.
We will, of course, be moving ahead with the updated design of the Block 6, bringing that
up to the latest safety standards.
many will recall that the master plan was first set out
back in 2017, 2018, so the standards need to be upgraded,
but we have a team lined up to do so.
So yeah, all in all, very exciting times ahead
for the scheme.
We've got a strong track record of delivery
and we're really confident that we're well placed
to take this forward in some really interesting directions
and really deliver some great homes.
Thank you, Mr. Richardson. Any questions?
Councillor McLeod.
Hello, and thank you for this. I've got these questions, actually. The board
councillors in the air have asked me to bring some of these up with the committee. So I
just wanted to have some clarity. So on paragraph 13 and 14, we talk about Falkenbrook School.
and the fact that obviously they were going to be quite impacted by what was going on
and part of the agreement was that it was going to fund ways of lessening those problems
for Falkenbrooke.
I just wonder with the changes here, I'm hoping that those mitigations are still going to
I'm just hoping when, what's the time scale,
what do the changes mean for the school?
Yeah, forgive me, my colleague couldn't make the detail,
who brings the detail to the paper,
but brings the detail background to this.
But yeah, I mean, that's part of the benefit
of ones who have been the lead developer here now.
We're able to make these decisions
on a very pragmatic basis.
So yeah, our commitment is still there.
I have to come back to you in terms of time scales and that and such like.
If you don't mind, please.
Can I?
Yeah, thank you.
I guess the rest of the questions are sort of similar.
So it's like when we talk about initiatives, the initiatives that we talk about in 16,
again the question is sort of like that sounds great, we can get ahead with these now, but
when?
I suppose the reason, and they might sound very repetitive,
is as you can imagine residents there have been waiting
for a long time, there have been lots of stops and starts.
There's an element of us, I think, needing to rebuild trust
and rebuild the fact that we're actually gonna do some of
this, oh I'm sorry.
There's an element of us needing to rebuild a little bit
of trust, that's why I'm asking these sorts of questions.
I want to.
We absolutely recognize that and we are in the early stages of really looking at this.
But they're high priority.
I'll have to come back with an update in June.
We made that commitment and that will be very much part of that.
Apologies I can't add any more detail right now, but it's front and center what we're
talking about here.
Do you want to talk about this particular one?
So, Mr Moore, if you would like to introduce yourself.
Good afternoon, members.
Good evening, members.
Sorry.
My name is Paul Moore.
I'm interim director of place.
Just on the last set of questions, Councillor, if I may, I just wanted to be really clear
that we completely get an understanding point about picking up those relations with key
partners in the community.
We're really keen to do that as a team.
I just wanted to reference back really to the Alton program.
I mean, you get a sense there of the kind of commitment that we're trying to give to
another even more substantial, even larger estate renewal program.
Cleaning Texas, a bit of time to pick up those threads and those reins, but we're really,
really keen to do that.
And I hope the previous paper gives you a sense of that commitment and where we'd like
to take some of those discussions.
In particular, the school, I completely understand, is a key priority in terms of those discussions.
Thank you, I just wanted to make that point.
Joel here.
Sorry.
And thank you for that.
Seeing as I've got you there now, I wasn't going to ask the other questions.
I think it's more about place than the buildings.
But as anyone who spends any time on Winstanley knows, there's a long -standing, I would say,
long -standing problem with safety and crime and issues like that and part of this development
was always supposed to be about managing out or designing out some of those problems.
Again, can you give me some reassurance that these are a priority and that we're going
to get some movement on making people feel safe on this day?
Certainly all considerations about community safety are fundamental to resident perceptions
in the area.
That would be an absolute priority.
Certainly what I would be keen for us to do is to, as you have seen again on the alternate,
sorry to keep referring out to there, but to build programmes of place -based interventions
which are driven by the concerns the residents have.
I think you saw Neillton's several hundred contacts
made by residents over the two years
leading up to the development of that program.
We'd be keen to do something very similar
around Winstan and York Road,
but as Mr. Richardson's already said,
program forming, we need a bit of time
to pick up those threads, do some of that background work,
reach out to key members of the community,
and then bring forward coherent programs that are resourced
that we can then actually deliver
with certainty and confidence.
That's what we'd like to do,
and the commitment is to bring back a report
along those lines in June, members.
Mr. Tiller?
Yes, could you say a bit more about how existing tenants
and leaseholders are being kept informed about developments?
Yeah, first and foremost, we had an event
a week or two ago now, just to be transparent
with local residents to reassure them where we are going.
We haven't formulated that feedback yet,
But I think obviously people had concerns,
but the message is very positive.
We are here to, we have greater control
of our respective destiny here,
and actually, and that was very much
the message we're offering.
So we will of course keep them up to date
as we move forward, but as I say,
it's rarely early days, but we've had that initial meeting,
and I hope residents, I'm confident a lot of residents
did show up and gained some better understanding of where we are on that.
Councillor Ali Jones.
Thanks, Chair.
I've got a question on paragraph 6.
So it refers to the decanting of certain properties which will then be or will be available for
use as temporary accommodation.
Is it the intention that all those units would be made available for temporary accommodation?
And what impact is that likely to have on the overspends that are detailed elsewhere
in the agenda?
John, Mr McWharfe to tell you that, Mr Richardson.
Yes, thanks, Councillor.
So the use of those blocks once counted as the permanent tenants as temporary accommodation
has been a feature for many, many years.
So, as you'll see in the later paper, we've got something like, don't quote me exactly,
but close to a thousand permanent units occupied as temporary accommodation.
So rather than ball them up, keep them empty, keep families elsewhere in London at a much
higher cost, we use them in that way, and, you know, it is significantly cheaper.
So I don't have precise details here of what that would do in terms of whether we would
end up by using those units with more than we've had traditionally, say in Pennythorne.
It may be it's kind of neutral, but it's all part of the strategy to keep the overspend
within control.
To limit the overspend, I think, would be the best way of putting it.
So it is part of that strategy.
We're – it's interesting to be doing some work in the last few days looking at
the longer term history of this and actually our proportions of housing revenue account
units compared to general fund units have remained fairly consistent even though the numbers have
gone up you know significantly over the 15 -year period I was looking at so hopefully that provides
some context. Councillor Barofaraj. Thank you chair. I've got a question on the private rented homes
that are being built. In general, what has been the Council's experience with building
private rented homes on council estates? Is there a number? And with the private rented
homes in the past, where the Council has done this, have we seen these private rented homes
then being rented back to the Council are higher rent, so that the Council can use them
for temporary accommodation?
You mean private homes?
Yeah, private rented homes that are being built on the Council estates, have we seen
these then being rented back to the council to be used for temporary accommodation? Hope that makes sense.
So the private sale ones that landlords buy?
The short answer is I don't know. What we do know is that on our estates there is a secondary market
mainly made up of ex -right to buy properties which over the years are offered to us as temporary accommodation and are taken.
The more recently built units, the private rent, the market rent properties, my feeling
is we would have taken, we wouldn't have been offered many of those, but that's just my
instinct on that.
We don't have numbers, I'm afraid.
Yeah.
Coming a little bit on this, which is to do with the history of the phasing.
So we rebuilt the school and there was a grad pad and yeah, some price.
So as far as I'm aware, there'd be no build to rent schemes within the first phase, but
obviously once private cell units go up, they can be leased out.
As a council, I guess what the key part from this paper is, after years of basically kind
of deadlock, just like on the Alton, we're taking this back in -house so that we can move
fast.
There will be discussions that will come to this committee later on about what the nature
of any redrawing of that looks like, but that isn't for this committee. And we have such
a clear next stage which has been held up for so long when it comes to Pentethorn that
really our priority is to bring Pentethorn down and start building so that those families
have been waiting for much too long now, you know, five year delays, get that housing quick.
So we're not keeping you in the dark on that. But, you know, it's firstly, we want to just
crack on with those residents who have been affected by the delays, and then we can come
back and start talking about tenure types. But, you know, obviously everyone knows my
position that the more council housing that we can get out of council land is the priority
of this council. York Road wins down the regeneration was one we inherited and where we have inherited
schemes like this we always try and maximize council housing.
Councillor Austin?
It's just been asked and answered.
So are we happy to receive?
Sorry, sorry.
I thought your thunder had already been taken, Mr Price, so I have two questions.
Sorry, thank you.
I do ask the members if they'll bear with me while I read my note. Thank you.
I'd like to raise the disappointment of our residents on the lack of proper communication.
I have a really good relationship with the Regen staff and I am fortunate to this relationship.
However, the residents are asking me what is happening and are becoming despondent.
We all received a letter from Simon on the joint venture split.
I understand what that means but for the residents, what does that mean?
We should have moved last March, then it became August, then it may be just before Christmas,
maybe just after Christmas.
Then we were told that the road was holding it up. Residents were constantly going to
the site and air bashing me as no work was going on on the road. Then we got the letter
of the JV split and they are now feeling that we are going nowhere and going nowhere fast.
Personally I have both happiness and unhappiness. Happy with the split. I have always been very
open that I did not want Taylor Wimpey, the unhappiness. Taylor Wimpey was responsible
for using their money to build our lovely new library, leisure centre and swimming pool,
that's gone. Housing focuses on building new homes and we need that, but we've lost the
new leisure centre. I believe that the move will now take place sometime in April and
I've just heard that. The residents don't know that yet. I have raised with our lease
Hall Regent officer that it may be prudent to ensure that the leaseholders'
arms take place before the new additional stamp duty cost comes into
effect. This will now start at $125 ,000 as against the current $250 ,000.
Surely we need some more money, we need this money to build more homes. Now on
another issue, parking. I am sure that at the time of the negotiation, if it was
known that the CPZ was being planned that something would have been put in
place for the residents. Just before the implementation, I was in discussion to
the parking office to ensure that I passed on the correct messages at our
next RA meeting. The officer volunteered to meet as a by the way, when you move
to the new bills, you will not be entitled to parking permits. I have
raised this issued many times. We knew that there will be reduced parking.
Braun mansion has 126 units and eight parking spaces of which four are disabled.
We are being moved due to the regeneration. We should not be penalized.
In May this year I have lived in Scholey House for 43 years. I've always had a car.
But now there is a precedent set. In January 2024, Paper 2404 on page 7 on the Lenox ex -stake
paragraph 10 -4, speaks of plans to introduce a CPZ to present non -estate parking and an
EPS and estate parking scheme will be implemented. Paragraph 5 goes on to state that residents
of any new homes developed will be precluded from securing parking permits, save the disabled
badge holders and those residents who may be transferring from existent homes on the
estate to the new homes. Please can this facility be given to these long time car holders? And
I have the paper that proves that it's going to be done on one estate so that's a precedent.
Thank you.
We don't doubt that. Mr Price, do you want to take that?
Some of them I'll be able to answer in more detail, some of them I won't be able to. And
You'll know because you were here.
We battled on this regeneration because of the vision
that we thought was there.
And we've had some victories.
The amount of social housing has increased.
The reason why we are where we are
is because those delays and the insolvency of the joint venture
meant that we had to make a decision and the priority of the council was to make sure that
we had the control to be able to act because the worst thing is when you're in paralysis
and you have residents. And the opposition were privy to these discussions at the Gold
Paper closed sessions that we had and supported the issue because there's nothing worse for
our residents than that kind of paralysis. The commitment of this committee and this
paper is to say, now that we are out of the JV, the emphasis on us is to show that we
can deliver and that we can move fast. Now, on communication, one of the challenges was
we couldn't communicate any of this until it was all done. Again, the reasons why we
had things out of public settings and commercially sensitive papers and things like that. So
We can only throw our hands up and say we're sorry, and now we are starting to communicate
and we will try and give people more clarity.
The second part on the nature of the previous master plan, I kind of alluded to it in my
comments previously, but on the leisure centre and things like that, we will come back to
this committee with decisions, but in some ways, because we've taken it back in -house
ourselves, there will be changes in priority and decision because we weren't the original
master planners.
Yeah, yeah, but but the JV model and the cross -subsidy model that was inherent in the JV model in order to provide
facilities that were no longer housing
There are alternatives and we will come with offers because we don't want to see
And we will always consult with residents about anything that drops off from their expectations. We have to do that
You know, we're publicly accountable to the expectations. We set people when they first heard about this
but we can't go into the details now because we
We basically want to crack on and get the phone down and build the housing that people
need to move into.
And then we'll come back and we'll be able to discuss the leisure center.
Also things have changed a lot in the last 10 years in terms of the provision of what
people might want and desire.
So we're open to discussing that.
On parking and CPZs, this is really interesting and important.
Obviously there is a set policy within the council.
You're right to highlight the Lennox within the thousand homes.
We have actually had some discretion I know of on one scheme on the York Road
with Stanley around the parking to do with the Falkenbrook School. So there is
also a precedent on the York Road with Stanley. So it's something that I will
take to my colleagues in Transport, Jenny. Obviously parking is a eternal
challenge with all local authorities and you know you highlight the
parking spaces again under a planning authority that wasn't when we were in
Control but the move is towards less parking spaces on developments and that we know that
The reality for our own tenants are particularly if they're doing a move there is an expectation there
So I'll make sure that I can clarify that with you and also come with any
interim arrangements because a CPZ that seems like a
You know possibly a good idea in order to in order to make sure that people who are using the estate
It's not just being parked on as free -for -all, which is one of the problems we have
Yeah.
Thank you.
What about saving some money on the stamp duty?
Because from 1 April, the lower level is 125K as against 250K now.
Could we not ensure that any of the leaseholders say that even though they're not moved in,
their documentation could be done to save that 125 ,000 per leaseholder?
That is a question that I cannot make on the spot on this, but I think it's one I'd definitely
take away to officers and I'm wondering if there is an officer who could speak on that
possibly. If not, it's one we'll get back to you.
The estate agent is putting his hand up. That's making me nervous.
No, because stamp duties are liable upon completion, not upon exchange and therefore it can't be
changed sadly.
Oh, so that's a weight of 25 pounds per meter.
Thanks to the JV.
Thanks to the JV.
Yeah, a lot of things thanks to the JV, unfortunately.
You should have listened to me in the first place and not taken.
I wasn't here.
You weren't.
You weren't.
But I would have backed you 100 % Marlene.
It would be a question.
Councillor Alijanz?
Can I just ask a quick question on the communication point?
And this is possibly coming from a place of ignorance,
but I know that on the Alton estate,
we've got Alton News, which is a regular publication
that keeps residents informed.
Do we have something like Winstanley News?
Yeah, we do.
And did -
Very, very rare.
So it's very rare,
because I think Alton News is quite regular, actually,
or at least the copies I see seem quite regular.
I just say, Alton -
Is it time that we step up when Stanley News basically, that could be a vehicle for keeping
residents informed.
The important thing is for those residents who are moving into Brown Manchin to be told
something.
That's more important.
Can we hold one meeting, sorry.
Mr Moore, did you want to say something on that?
Just very briefly, members, I think you've also reflected, Councillor Dickerson reflected
on the time of the year of the particular change that had a degree of awkwardness in
terms of our ability to project news over the Christmas, New Year period. I'm sure,
members, you'll understand that practical difficulty. The main point I wanted to say
there was, again, back to the Alton, there's been a genuine and dynamic appreciation of
the need for communication in that space.
So personal commitment, I'm sure, from the team, Mr Richardson and others and the cabinet
lead would want to assure you we'll do all that we can to project the right news at the
right time.
We'll clearly move through a number of phases on Winstanley, York Road.
We get how important, in terms of the state, regeneration, investment, renewal, the news,
the bringing forward news swiftly and authentically to residents is clearly critical to winning
hearts, minds, trust as we move forward.
Quite what that means, the frequency of news, that is I think the team would want to review
that with ward councillors, get their take on things and with some community leaders
as well.
So that's part of that assessment we would like to undertake in the next few weeks.
Thank you.
Fantastic.
Okay.
Are we happy to receive this paper and recommendations A and B?
Yep.
Okay, good.

6 PRS Discretionary Licensing Paper (Paper No.25-10)

Okay, so item 6, which is the PRS discretionary licensing paper.
Mr Nash.
Good evening, Councillors.
Chris Nash, Head of Residential and Pollution Services.
For the context of this meeting, this is everything private sector housing related.
I've had a short -ish introduction to the paper.
It's quite a weighty one, so please bear with me.
So members will be aware of the direction given by this committee back in September
2023 to develop proposals for discretionary property licensing.
Over the last 15 months, the landscape in this regard has shifted quite significantly,
both in terms of the prevalence of hazards in the PRS, but perhaps more importantly and
recently the government's devolution decision -making to transfer licensing in totality to local
councils to make their own decisions.
Within this period, after both the mayoral and general election, the council embarked
on a long 12 -week public consultation from July to October 2024, inviting feedback on
three potential schemes.
First of those is a borough -wide additional HMO scheme, which is for those larger properties
containing three or more people across two households.
There's roughly about 2 ,500 of those properties not already addressed within the current mandatory
scheme. Secondly, a selective licensing scheme. This is for the remainder of the PRS. To the
south of the borough, in the wards of Fersdown, Tooting Broadway and South Ballum, roughly
nine and a half thousand properties there. And thirdly, another selective scheme within
the wards of Northcote, East Putney and West Putney, comprising around six and a half thousand
properties. The scope of these three schemes were informed by a stock condition survey
and modeling undertaken by an independent expert consultant
and previously presented to this committee.
The outcomes of this modeling highlighted
that properties and wards were set out,
were likely to contain properties
with serious hazards above the national average.
Around 1 ,000 people engaged with the consultation
via both online survey, in writing,
or through attending one of two public forums.
Analysis of the responses has been undertaken,
which demonstrated a polarity and views on the scheme with broad disagreement
amongst landlord and managing agent groups in comparison to support amongst
tenant owner occupiers and stakeholders and that feedback is listed within
the appendices provided. The principal concerns expressed within free text were
around fees and charges, some of the comments setting out that we were
amounted to profiteering through them and that the conditions of the license
were too onerous and that there was some technical wording of conditions that people would like
changed to provide further clarity.
In contrast, support was expressed to the manner in which the schemes would be able
to guarantee the overall quality of the PRS in the selected areas, with the council perceived
as better able to resource the amount of support being offered to vulnerable tenants and those
in need.
So reflecting this feedback given, some technical wording has well been amended and provided
within the papers, along with two further discounts for both energy efficiency and for
those properties rented back to the social sector.
Licensing fees will indeed be ring -fenced to support the scheme alone and not to the
wider general fund, and are considered affordable against the backdrop of high rent levels throughout
the borough, the average of that in the ONS papers around £2 ,400 per calendar month.
The recommendations before the committee will enable the Council to implement the additional
HMO and Selective Scheme 1 in July of this year, supported by a gold property charter
and enforced by an updated enforcement policy presented within these papers also.
Reflecting the scale, however, of the change required, particularly with regard to the
staffing commitment, around 30 to 40 new staff will be required to support this scheme.
It is proposed that a paper be brought back to this committee in October, both updating
members on the delivery of the first two schemes and setting forward a timetable for the new
formal approval and delivery of selective licensing designation to the
proposals before members will enable four key objectives to be delivered
creating a fair a PRS increase in tenant awareness improving conditions and
management and the overall increased landlord engagement with the council
I'll stop there and invite any questions thank you thank you mr. Nash any
questions other councilor Rigby yeah so this actually relates to a piece of
Casework I've got at the moment with a landlord who will not provide bends
So we've got a rat issue on one of the streets, which is pretty bad
So when we which is brilliant, so
70 on page 77 it's brilliant that there's going to have to be checks carried out for pest control
How is that going to work to make sure that they are and also I would like some
sort of clearer writing about what they're supposed to provide so it says
adequate facilities for the disposal of refuse and recycling
So what what I'm finding is that in quite a lot of the properties in Balham for instance
The landlords years and years ago built these like little bins
bin sheds in the front gardens that are now in
Pretty bad conditions and nobody really wants to go and put their stuff in it and you know
It's where rats are living. So and they're not providing proper bins with lids
So I'm I'm meeting so many private residents private tenants who are saying their landlord will not provide a bin
Or the bins just falling apart and it's dirty
So I just think we it would be really helpful to have it absolutely clear. You must provide a bin
It has to have a lid.
You have to clean the bin like X number of times a year.
So it's like helping people to keep their premises tidy and clean.
Thank you for that, Councillor.
I think the two things to take away from this scheme is one, we are required by the law
to keep the conditions under total review.
And the second part there is around accountability.
So previously up until now, we'd only ever be able to have that ongoing dialogue where
we've kind of reacting to a case rather than a proactive approach.
This licensing scheme will ensure that there is almost a name above the door, someone who
tenants can turn to, the council can turn to, but also it would equip the council with
much more resources to be able to kind of work proactively with properties that may
have an endemic problem with ramps, for example, or if we're noticing that there is an issue
with waste management across the borough, it allows us to actually take on that learning
and provide issue with our colleagues in waste, etc., and private contractors.
So it's one of that relationship building to tackle problems exactly as you've set out.
And there's 52 more officers for this purpose as well, aren't there, too?
52 officers in total for the team.
I think an additional 30 to 40 for this section.
Commissioner Nash, any more questions?
Councillor Osten.
Thank you very much.
I'm surprisingly, I think the cabinet member will find, I'm actually broadly in support
of this.
I think that the public service announcement, I hope I run an incredibly repressible business,
and we're a member of more than one of these readdress schemes.
And there is obviously an incredibly small percentage, like with everything, that give
landlords a bad name and give estate agents a bad name.
So the more that we can weed that out, the better.
What my first question is, there seems to be no costs as in you said we need 30 to 40
more offices but and all the money you've arrived at 850 pounds and 450 pounds there's
it's for five years there's a finite number of properties what are the percentage of properties
you think are going to leave the market how many are you going to just sign check their
responsibilities.
So we have got a total and then there is discounts on top of that.
How much is it actually going to cost to run this scheme?
Thank you, Councillor.
So there has been a financial model sitting behind this scheme as it has approached discounts
which has gone through finance colleagues as well.
The expected revenue generated by the additional HMO scheme is around 3 .5 million and depending
on whether we go for both selection, selective license designation one and two, a revenue
ranging from about five million to nine million pounds.
So not insubstantial.
The sum, around 80 percent of that cost is on staffing.
The 30 to 40 staff that will be provided.
There are also IT costs, legal costs, communications costs associated with it and how we want to
kind of frame that engagement.
So it's a bit of a moving feast and we need to,
the next steps will be to relaunch a communication strategy,
an IT program to onboard this.
So it's kept fairly fluid,
but those are the broad headline figures.
Councilor Ayers?
Sorry, can we come back on that?
Not at that point, I'll just keep going.
No, okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you're here, feel free to jump in.
Okay, Councilor Ayers.
I wanted to ask about housing associations.
I mean, how does this reach into the worker housing associations because I'm from a there's a dreadful landlord and so inaccessible
Good evening Roy fielding private sector housing manager
Housing associations are exempt from this licensing scheme
It's yeah set out in the legislation
There's no social housing providers. Well, that's a pity. Okay, but I understand I feared that was the case. Thank you. Thank you
Just say they're covered by the Regulator of Social Housing.
Okay, Councillor Verfage.
Thank you.
I welcome this paper and want to say thank you to everyone that was involved.
You can see quite a lot of work has gone into it.
When the scheme does get rolled out, how soon can we expect the conditions in those wards,
how soon can we expect the conditions to improve in those wards where the scheme has been rolled
Thank you.
Yeah, the answer to that is it's as long as
a piece of string really, but the schemes
promise to go live July 2026.
Before then there will be a period of application
and support from a technical basis.
Officers will then be commencing their kind of
enforcement and inspection regime towards the autumn.
So by the end of the calendar year we will have
a chunk of data to be able to bring back to this committee.
but we want to be able to advise on the engagement
and the uptake of the scheme in our proposed paper
in October of this year.
So there'll be the initial bits of news in October.
Any other questions?
Councilor Austin.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Just on the public notices and things,
you notice that they haven't been published.
I'm hoping, at least they haven't.
Not until we're the exit.
Yeah, in several places they refer
to the London borough of Southwark, so I'm assuming that we've just copied somebody else's
homework on that basis.
Moving on to the licenses themselves, and I've been very sad I've actually read this
cover to cover almost 300 pages of it.
There are, I agree with Councillor Rigby, there are a few language issues that are a
bit, I think, you know, I commend the offices, they've approached this very slowly and that's
it's brilliant because we need to get this absolutely right and not fast and make sure that we're as tight as we possibly can be and
there's no
pushback where where we could be liable and there's a lot of language issues in here that are very loose and
And just don't quite
meet the pest control and dust bins and things like that being one of them and
The first mention of EIC our certificates, which is a legal requirement since 2021 is on page 208
They are not in any of the licenses at all, but yet that is a statutory requirement, and
so they need to be in the licenses.
I've got, I'll give this sort of few big ones, but there are quite a few, and I just think
that maybe we just need to look, check the homework again, and come back, and come back,
because there's quite a few anomalies in here.
Yeah, thank you, Councillor, for pointing that out, and that's disappointing that we
haven't picked this up prior to this committee, so it's noted, and we'll be sure to make sure
the iron type before we go and publish them, if that is the will of the committee.
Councillor Allijan.
Thank you, Chair.
Like Councillor Thraffiraj and Councillor Austin, I really welcome the principle behind
this scheme.
In fact, this builds on a lot of work that was done behind the scenes in the last Conservative
administration.
So, really glad to see this coming to committee tonight.
Unfortunately, when we see schemes like this implemented in other boroughs, it has not
had a happy record of implementation and effectiveness.
Like Councillor Austin says, we have to get this right.
I have two questions.
I will ask them one at a time and allow the cabinet member and the officers to answer.
First is the obvious concern that tenants have, which is that the fee will just be passed
directly onto them in increased rents. So I'd be grateful for the cabinet member or
the officers thinking on how we can mitigate that risk.
I think the, I don't remember the opposition backing landlord licensing when we brought
it up on quite a few occasions. The committee now, it may well have been going on behind
the doors, but certainly wasn't supported at committee.
Yes, on the fee, if you, let's say they theoretically did pass on the five -year fee to the tenant,
we averaged it out as, I think it was two pounds.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's a, and obviously no one wants to have a fee passed on to them, but if that was the
cost of being able to get your deposit back, having council support in investigation of
category one hazards, you know,
that's kind of the regulatory pressure.
Now, the thing I'd say honestly to tenants
when they bring this up is,
annual rent increases in Wandsworth every year
have been going up far beyond that three pound fee increase.
So if we're just honest
and we don't play politics with this,
we know that if we did nothing,
next year their rents would likely go up.
It's why I advocate for rent control.
I'm very public about it.
I lobby the government about it.
I speak out on it.
I think if we want to protect tenants rents,
the best way to do that is rent control.
In order to make life renting easier along,
if we're not going to get rent control
and we can't implement rent control as a local authority,
the second best way to try and make sure that renting is easy
and you're protected in ones with is through the licensing.
So that was on the basis that if all landlords did do it.
The second point is there is no evidence
that landlords do that. So you can look at all the other boroughs and there is no evidence
that landlords do actually end up passing on the five year fee to their tenants. So
that's kind of empirical point. So I've got the kind of the political point and the empirical
point. And I kind of add to that that obviously the first thing that happens when you say
you're going to do a licensing scheme is every landlord turns around and says, well, I'm
going to place it onto as a kind of almost a bit of a threat to the local authority.
And if you came to the consultation, some of you might have sat in on them because they
were on Zoom.
You would have seen the kind of, some of the arguments that were made against doing this.
So I'm glad that I'm glad you support it because you're probably aware of all the arguments
are the same arguments that were put against it that the entire market is going to fall
out, that everyone is going to sell up, that rents are going to skyrocket.
And you know, as someone who spent five years of my life renting, I find that frustrating
because it's it's you know that isn't the experience of what Wandsworth is going to be like.
Wandsworth is there I think there are we have to have honest and real conversations about
supply in terms of the renters rights bill we've seen section 21s go up particularly on
you know low -income families but I think broadly Wandsworth with this scheme will not just remain
a place where people will want to rent properties it's going to remain a place where it's very
profitable to rent properties.
And I'm hoping that this brings up the standards for everyone,
so for both landlords and for tenants.
So I hope that's a large enough politics, empirical evidence,
and my kind of economic analysis of what
it would be like to be a landlord in Wandsworth.
Thank you.
I mean, in fairness, that was a very honest answer.
I mean, the first part of your answer
was that if it does happen, the administration
thinks that's a price worth paying for the benefits
the administration says is going to be delivered.
I think it's quite an honest position to have.
But that leads me to my second concern with the implementation, which is that there is
a risk that for the properties that are compliant with these schemes, essentially it's an increase
in the rent potentially for no benefit.
Whereas for the rogue landlords who don't comply with this, it's an increase in rent
for no benefits that are desperately needed.
You know, I'm not going to dwell on the case of the high -profile case of the Labour MP,
who when he was the labor leader of the council introduced a scheme like this and was found to have nine properties of his own
That were eligible or liable under the scheme and didn't register them. So
The paper deals in some detail with the enforcement mechanism
Are you satisfied that we have learnt everything we can from previous failings elsewhere?
And and what will you be looking out for?
as this process
develops
Yeah, so all the meetings I've had with both tenant groups, London Renters Union, different
charities.
You know, I used to work for the New Economics Foundation and there was a lot of work going
on around licensing.
The key is the inspection regime.
So you can have an all singing, all dancing, nice piece, wad of paper that says that this
is what we're going to do.
And the key is boots on the ground, visiting the properties, hiring the staff that are
regularly going out and inspecting.
And that is the feedback from all the local authorities that I've spoken to and all the
organizations I've spoken to that campaign for licenses.
They say, and it's a challenge and we'll face that challenge and Chris will face that challenge
is that the capacity through which you can hire up the staff to do this work is challenging
because it's a new and growing role and all the local authorities are trying to do it.
So the best measures for us as a committee will be like how many inspections are we doing?
You know, how many people are, because there'll be a bottleneck at the start, right?
like we can't just grant licenses based on inspections because we won't have the staff through which to do it.
So we will grant some licenses out early and those classes will be based not on an inspection regime.
So that's the next stage is making sure that we're going out and visiting as many properties as possible.
So that's, you know, that would be my answer to how you make sure that this actually does raise up standards,
because if the money isn't going into physical property checks, regular property checks.
And also I think something that we're very keen on in Wandsworth is how can we use some of that money to just support?
Set up, you know creative ways that if you're a young renter in Wandsworth and you're struggling to get through to your landlord
What soft power do we have as a local authority to just?
Come in behind you and send a bit of a letter that it sounds a bit scary where a landlord actually makes a move
You know, those are the kind of things that I think would really ease and show tenants in Wandsworth that were on their side
because you're absolutely right.
We can pass this at a committee
and it's only as good as the inspections
that take place afterwards.
And the enforcement, the court cases,
the rogue landlords that we don't send three letters
warning them, we say no, we're just gonna take you to court.
Chris, do you wanna jump in?
Yeah, just wanted to bring to members' attention,
one of the key four objectives of the scheme
is to increase engagement with the landlord sector.
So the authorities in the country
that have done this successfully,
or most successfully in my view,
have encouraged a greater kind of network.
So they're using things like e -zines, newsletters,
landlord forums to really get that tight -knit group
of compliant landlords offering a greater service to them.
It's a tight -knit community,
and those landlords will know those rented properties
in their marketplace that aren't conforming.
And by getting that relationship together,
not just from the hard arm of the law
through to a more softer engagement approach,
you're able to target those non -compliant landlords better and support those landlords
that are genuinely, and this is the vast majority of them, genuinely doing an excellent job
in supporting their tenants.
So it's hand in glove.
And I suppose with other measures coming down the line as well, I mean a more stable and
decent environment, I think both landlords and private renters I think would be much
more in favour of rather than the scattergun situation we have at the moment.
Any more questions?
Councillor Austin.
Thank you.
I've lost it in this report and sadly I can't pick it up any more.
It had a breakdown of the tenants, sorry, it had a breakdown of landlords and whether
they're professional landlords, accidental landlords, HMO landlords.
There is a very large proportion of accidental landlords in the borough.
I can tell you that from my own experience.
We're offering 850 pounds for a five -year license.
However, those accidental landlords don't want to rent for a five -year period.
They want to rent for one or two years.
Have we considered and looked at an option for a shorter license at a lower price, obviously
for landlords that want to get into the market and hopefully maybe stop an immediate problem
with regards to a paper later,
and even went to us as a council,
while they make their moves and look to potentially sell
what they want to do next.
Yes, we did consider it as part of the consultation exercise
it was a query raised.
We would consider it as part of the consultation exercise
and we published a list of those responses on the web.
The hard part of those kind of shorter time scale is
you are somewhat just as likely to have a category one
hazard in a property being let for six months
and you are to five years.
And so to offer that shorter period of time
or that discounted fee for that period of time,
you still need to inspect those properties
to make sure they are hazard free.
And so it becomes almost unworkable to do
on a varying fee and charges level.
So we considered it, we sided against it.
Is that a hand, Councillors?
Okay.
No more questions?
Okay.
So can we support recommendations A to H?
Yep.
Okay.
Good.
Okay.
Moving on to the next paper, which is Item 7.
And it's the budget monitoring report.

7 Q3 Budget Monitoring Report (Paper No.25-11)

and it's Officer Burry.
Thank you, Chair.
I'm Sandra Burry, the Assistant Director for Finance and Business Support in Housing.
So the quarter three report provides an overview of the general fund's revenue budget position
for the remit of this committee.
We are currently projecting an overspend of 6 .114 million against a revived budget of 26 .894 million.
At quarter two, we were reporting an overspend of 5 .212 million,
which is mainly for housing services direct homelessness costs.
Unfortunately, there has now been an increase in this forecast,
and we have reviewed the predicted year -end numbers
for people in temporary accommodation.
So the revised prediction on these are now 3 ,975
compared to 3 ,802 at quarter two.
So that's an increase of 173.
So bearing that in mind, we've had to cost all of that out
and that is why the forecast has unfortunately increased.
I stated that the main reason for this overspend
is related to housing services budgets
caused by the high demand and high cost
of homelessness support and provision of accommodation.
This is discussed more in the housing activity report,
so I don't really want to step into that report
because it does address how the service
is trying to manage and reduce this forecast going forward.
Also within the report, the Director of Finance
has added the proposed budget position
in Appendix C for information.
This will be presented at Finance and Overview Committee
tomorrow evening.
Any questions?
Are there any questions?
I would suggest that, yeah, there's a possibility that we can combine both with the housing
services because of how related they are, but I'm happy to take questions on this as
well.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
We do have one question.
Can I ask you last?
Thank you very much.
I am sitting with 6 .114 million overspent.
Against budgeted 26 ,894, we're looking at projected spend of 33 ,009 ,000 pounds.
Then at the end of the bottom of the paper for next year, so 25, 26, we're looking at
a budget at 29 ,740 ,000.
I wasn't here this time last year, but I reckon if I look at the papers last year, there was
probably a 20 percent overspend on budget then, and if I look at the year before that,
there will be a 20 percent overspend on budget.
Surely we should look at this and look at we're probably going to spend 33 million,
so the figure we need to take to finance is 33 million, and so that we don't overspend
by 20 percent year on year.
Thank you, Councillor. Yes, that has been addressed in the proposed budget report. There
teams are working to try and reduce that. So my colleague will go through the services
activity report and will be demonstrating ways that they are trying to reduce this forecast.
So, yes, at the moment, if numbers remain the same and the unit costs do not continue
to – we are experiencing slight reductions in those.
If that doesn't continue, then yes, we will be looking at a worse out -turn situation.
Thanks, Councillor.
I was hesitating because no doubt this issue will come up in the next paper, but just to
that on your point about the forecasting, obviously this is a very dynamic area, which
an individual borough's ability to influence is quite limited because it's a London -wide
market, it's a London -wide issue, national issue really.
Just for any context, temporary combination numbers now are at a record high, going back
to whenever the government started recording the figures, which was probably in the 1980s,
early 1980s.
This paper references, as does the next one, that – and it is cold comfort – if you
make those comparisons, our rate of increase is increasing slower than other boroughs in
London.
I think as this paper references, we are a borough that is fully compliant with our legal
responsibilities.
So we don't use bed and breakfast for families.
That sadly not the same can be said for many other in London boroughs.
and the use of bed and breakfast families has gone literally stratospheric in the last
couple of years, last year really, which is indicative of the fact we are in the teeth
of a raging crisis.
But it's not inevitable that that will continue and just to point some things that may well
influence that was referenced in the last paper.
The Renters Reform Act we expect to come into law sometime in the spring, early summer.
About 20 percent of the people we accept as homeless and placed into temporary accommodation
come out of the private rented sector on the back of a section 21 notice.
Of course, under the reforms, landlords will still be able to regain possession, but within
more tightly defined and evidenced circumstances.
So that's one change that will happen.
As this paper also references, we are looking to reduce our reliance on the highest and
sometimes the worst form of temporary accommodation, which is these nightly paid units.
And one of the ways we can do that is through large -scale leasing schemes.
So just today we've been approached by a landlord who is bringing to the table a 200 -unit
scheme.
Now, I've set up a meeting with them for two Mondays' time, so I don't know the details.
I'm not going to speculate whether the deal they may be offering is a good, bad, or a
different one, but just the flag that this work goes on all the time.
If that comes in at 10, 15 percent cheaper than the provision we're currently making,
then the budgetary position would shift by a similar proportion.
So I don't know if that offers any reassurance, but it gives some context, hopefully.
So thank you. No, it absolutely does. Thank you.
And also I do actually commend all the officers for their hard work,
because I did read in the paper that we do hit 100 percent of our –
because we don't use bed and breakfast, and we are at 100 percent on that,
which is no mean feat and it takes an incredibly large amount of work.
So at your commendation, it's recommended for that.
Okay.
No more questions?
Are we happy to note this report for information?
Okay.

8 Housing Services Activity Update (Paper No.25-12)

So going on to item number 8, housing services activity update.
Thank you, Ms. Burrell.
And its officer is Councillor Nazir.
Good evening. I'm Giselle Narsi, interim director of housing services. So this paper details
the homelessness and our housing activity position as of the end of November 2024 against
the forecast that we set out in the July paper. And just to clarify that the homelessness
activity position is a month earlier than the performance set out in the earlier report.
So as at the end of November, there were 4 ,078 placements in template accommodation against
a revised forecast of 3 ,975. The original forecast that we set in July was 3 ,802 and
we revised that at the end of October 2024 due to the rising demand. So in paragraphs
five to seven, the increasing demand for temporary accommodation has resulted in a net increase
of 278 placements since the end of March 2024.
Sorry, in paragraph seven, just because there's a small typo,
the number should read 399, not 1399,
in terms of the numbers who've made
their own temporary accommodation arrangements.
In paragraph eight, as Mr. Worth pointed out,
it should be noted that the use of
bread and breakfast has increased.
There's been no breach of the six week suitability order,
and that still remains the case.
Around 85 % of our temporary accommodation use
is self -contained.
Paragraphs 10 to 12 details the other types of temporary accommodation used particularly under the private sector leasing scheme and within the council's general needs stock
Paragraphs 14 to 20 far 21 details the increased demand for the services in the month of July August October
November there was more than 400 and presentations ie
Nearly 1700 over these these months since March 2024 there have been over 3 ,000 presentations
In comparison to the same period in the last financial year,
this represents 15 % increase in the numbers first admitted into template accommodation.
In paragraph 17 details the most prevalent reason for homelessness,
mainly friends and family exclusions, domestic abuse, and the end of an assured short -haul tenancy.
In paragraph 19, it can be seen that landlord incentives are making an impact on activities.
So this is one of the initiatives that we set out in the June -July paper around landlord
incentives and it's starting to prove itself.
In fact, that we've already carried out 179 moves at the end of November and at the end
of December, this has now increased to 201 moves and we've got roughly about 80 properties
in the pipeline for private sector use over the next month or so.
So, turning to the resources and commitments, Paragrass 22 -27 provides a progress against
the resources forecast.
890 properties have been let against the forecast of 1381, and we are around 41 properties behind,
mainly around council and RSL vacancies.
And as you can see from the appendix that we are let to private renters sector of 31
ahead, which supports a strengthened landlord incentives.
It may also be noted that we're ahead on the homeless forecast by 23 and remain so today,
as well as being 22 ahead for those who have moved to general needs housing under the Council's
downsizing scheme in the Home That Fits scheme.
Paragraph 27 details the improving void position, now 225 voids, including 84 temporary accommodation
voids.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr Nazir. Are there any questions?
Councillor Tickeldin? Yeah, I think one thing to bring up is that
we are going to be coming back to committee with some kind of reforms and demand -side
policies to try and solve this. Like what Councillor Alston was mentioning
around the situation facing London is that, you know, I've been on this committee now
for nearly what, nine years, seven years, eight years, something like that. And every
single, every single way, you know, when the House Homelessness Reduction Act came in,
we would just see that 20 % every single time and that underestimation of the budget and
the overspent. We're getting to the point whereby those figures are becoming huge pressures
on the general fund. And in Wandsworth, we have a healthy financial position. We're not
in the same boat as some of our colleagues in London, where that is becoming an existential
threat to the general fund. And that's coming with this increased demand pressures on adult
social care and children's social care. So you're right to say it cannot just continue
in that direction permanently. What we are seeing is huge amounts of public money being
funneled into the pockets of private landlords in order to house people in accommodation
that is not secure and is often not the quality that we would expect. It is not good for the
local economy, it is not good for the London economy, it is not good for the British economy.
When you don't even factor in the benefit bill to that, like this is just a huge transfer
of public money into private hands. It doesn't make any sense and people aren't better off
it. So we've got to come up with some kind of solution to this storm. It's a scandal.
And we're trying to build as much council housing as possible. This is one of the reasons why we do
that, because every single council house that we build is a way of someone who's overcrowding
our own stock can move into it. And then TA Tenant can move into that empty vacant unit,
or they can have a direct move. But this is an absolute priority. And whatever we can do in
colleagues across London because you know we've seen councils going under
because of this this number of people who are presenting as homeless and unless
we get affordability within the housing market as the priority this will
continue so look we will be coming back to you we we we understand that this is
not something we can just pretend and pretend isn't happening because it is
happening and we've watched the numbers go up every single time that said the
The renters reform bill, there might be a bit of pain in the lead up to it, but afterwards
it will mean that we have less section 21s.
That will slow the number of people who are facing eviction.
There's a wave in terms of how many social units we get year on year.
So last year we had a fairly healthy number come online.
We're hoping that throughout the timeline of the thousand homes that will also benefit.
But, you know, there isn't an easy answer here other than, you know, what we talk about
all the time, which is a National Cancer House building program and main control.
Like, those are the only two things I can think of that we'd be able to impact within
the generation and with the speed necessary to stifle the number of people who are presenting.
Because otherwise it's just going to continue forever.
Thank you.
Any other questions?
No?
Okay.
Are we happy to receive this paper for information?
Yep, okay.

9 HRA Budget Setting (inc Rent Setting) (Paper No.25-13)

So on to item, thank you, Ms. Nazir.
Item number nine, which is HR budget setting, including the rent setting, and it's Mark
Davies.
Thank you, Chair.
Good evening, Committee.
My name is Mark Davies, I'm the financial controller for housing regeneration.
I'm going to introduce the HRA budget and rent setting report.
So this report is presented each year as part of the council's duty to set budgets for its
housing stock and to ensure that proposed levels of expenditure remain affordable.
The report updates all plans capital and revenue expenditure and income estimates and then
goes on to review rent levels and set non -residential charges.
The report also covers an amendment to the council's existing rent policy.
The report first recommends new capital spend of $84 million as set out in paragraph 8.
Combined with the existing capital program approved at the last business plan update,
the total capital investment over this and the next three years is now $627 million.
This covers not only investment in existing housing stock, but also the continued delivery
of new housing.
The proposed capital program is set out in detail in Appendix C.
Paragraphs 37 and 38 cover how this capital expenditure is expected to be funded,
which on current plans is mainly from borrowing and a mix of capital receipts, grants, and using HRA reserves.
The report then goes on to look at the planned revenue expenditure.
As previously reported, there are a number of continuing financial pressures within the HRA,
Specifically, that relating to void properties and more general cost pressures across repairs,
which is presenting as an estimated 8 million pound overspend in the current year.
Crucially, for rent setting purposes, the consumer price index in September 2024 was
1 .7 percent.
With regards to proposals for income, including that from tenants' rents, the report confirms
that in accordance with the rent standard, the council is permitted to increase rents
by CPI plus 1%, so a maximum of 2 .7%.
And in view of the cost pressures the HRA faces, and so to ensure the long -term viability
of the HRA business plan, recommends that rents are increased by 2 .7 % from April 2025.
The report then details from paragraph 80 the various service charges that tenants may
be charged.
Paragraph 96 reviews the Council's current rent policy and recommends an amendment to
rely on the cap in provisions set out within the rent standard rather than the existing
cap.
The amendments to the policy are shown in Appendix G with an impact analysis reported
in Appendix H. Paragraph 111 onwards proposes that non -residential charges such as garages
and store sheds are increased by an average of 2 .2 % in line with the Council's general
approach to charging.
These are detailed in Appendix D. A summary of budgets are shown in the HRA framework
attached at Appendix E with graphs showing the estimated reserve balances over the next
10 and 30 years included Appendix F. Finally, the report's conclusion is that a 2 .7 % rent
increase is now necessary and that based on the estimates for income, the total planned
spend on the council's housing stock in the HRA is affordable over the short and longer
term.
Happy to take any questions.
Thank you, Mr Davis.
Any questions?
Councillor Tiller.
Thank you, Chair.
So looking at the appendices, some service chargeable costs are attached to a particular
block, which is reasonably easy to follow, but others are attached to a wider area or
even the whole borough.
So how can a leaseholder find out what they will be charged?
Can I just ask what paragraph and appendices you're referring to there, please?
I believe it's the first few appendices.
Let me just make quite sure I got the right.
So for example, in Appendix A, we've got budgets for various things.
And I've had a query from a leaseholder about this subject.
There are two types of service charges that residents might be billed.
you will get leaseholder service charges which will be by the name, billed to leaseholders
on estates depending on the works that have been done on their properties.
That's all covered by the leases and it will be billed annually in September.
The other service charges that residents face, specifically tenants, are the charges for
tenant service charges which would cover a variety of services which are set out within
the report, and I'll just look for the specific paragraph.
But effectively, I mean, the tenant service charges are only billed to tenants that receive
those services.
So if you were in a block that didn't have entry call, you wouldn't expect to get an
entry call charge.
So there's a thorough reconciliation done on the costs that are spent on blocks, and
then there's an annual exercise just to set those charges and ensure that tenants are
only build the charges for the services they receive.
If I could ask a follow -up question, because the query that was submitted to me came from
a leaseholder and some leaseholders have been unhappy about service charges that they weren't
expecting and would like to look ahead and see what service charges are coming up based
on the figures provided here.
And yeah, so as I said, it's reasonably obvious when the block is mentioned, but then you
have other service charges that are for a particular area or some that cover the whole
error, and so that makes things quite hard for a leaseholder to predict.
And so when the service charges to leaseholders come in, they appear as unpleasant surprises.
So I'm wondering if, say, a leaseholder provided the name of their particular block, could
Could they get a breakdown of what was coming up and what fraction of the upcoming service
charges for each item they had to pay?
Could you introduce yourself, Mr. Stewart?
Ian Stewart, Director of Housing Management.
This paper is not to do with leaseholder service charges.
I've noted your query.
We'll talk to you afterwards and we'll get the details of that case.
But this relates to service charges applying to tentative rents.
Okay.
Thank you.
Any more questions?
Councillor Ayers.
I've had a couple of case work resulting from elderly tenants who are struggling with the
sort of kit that I struggle with because the invoices they get do not state what the invoice
is for.
it states who the contractor is, so it'll say enable,
but they don't know whether that's for gardening
or street cleaning.
And is that the same point?
Oh.
Service charges.
Have to talk to you afterwards.
This is about tenants, tenants rent and service charges.
This, no, this is leaseholders service charges.
Oh, okay.
Okay, thank you.
You're going to be here until midnight, Mr Stewart, I think.
And Mr Glockner.
Yeah, on paragraph 31, you speak of loan to value and metrics to obtain financing.
What loans are you talking about?
Are you talking about PWLB loans that you're generating a loan to value for or net present
value or?
I thought a lot of these projects for the Thousand Homes are sort of almost self -funded
out of the HRA account or grants from the City of London.
31?
I think the point of that is we have a range of potential schemes that could come forward.
The development team will be looking at various sites and various opportunities and they will
work through the finances of those schemes, and if one stacks up better than another,
that's more likely to be given a green light and be taken forward subject to the normal
approval process. So it's referencing that sort of financial appraisal on the schemes
that are coming forward. Yeah, currently we're doing internal borrowing
because the rate is good, and we're trying to wait until the best possible interest rate
on the Public Works Loan Board. There's only so long we can keep doing that for, so at
point we will start start the borrowing process for the thousand homes and the
payback period for that is 50 years on the current the current scheme
councilor Jones Thank You chair on the subject of borrowing I'm looking at
sentence says, over the 30 -year HRA business plan, it is currently assumed that around
780 million of new borrowing is required, with this assumed to be long -term debt. Is
the 750 million, which is an eye -popping sum in the history of this account, is that the
lifetime cost of the debt, or is that the debt as it's taken on, with interest then
to be added later? That is the sum borrowed with the interest
to be added over the life of the borrowing. Have officers made an assessment of what the
lifetime value of that debt is? The cost of that debt, based on current assumptions,
is built into the business plan. So the business plan is affordable with that level of borrowing,
with the assumptions underpinning that, and assuming payback over a 50 -year period as
My question is slightly different, which is, so $780 million is the figure without the
interest. What assessment have officers made of what that figure is with the interest?
Because referencing your last answer, if officers have assessed that it's affordable, they must
have quantified what the lifetime value of the debt was.
We would have done that exercise as part of the business planning process, but I haven't
got it to hand, and obviously we haven't quoted that within the report.
Perhaps we can follow up after the committee with that, but it's going to be over a billion,
isn't it?
I would expect so.
I will jump in here and suggest that when we took over these plans, there was around
– I think it was 500 million in first -time borrowing for the housing revenue account
under the Conservatives' plans.
What we did is flip tenure types, and that has added 200 and something million to that
initial debt. So, you know, it was a kind of timing fluke of history that we took over
the Council to become the first to borrow on the HRA because the papers we were getting
were suggesting that that was exactly what was going to happen. I mean, you were going
ahead with two major regenerations that was going to be borrowing on the HRA. Given the
papers we've just previously had, whereby, you know, we're spending upwards of 33 million
pounds annually on temporary accommodation over the lifetime of the housing stock and
the assets that we're building for ourselves. These are just these are these are mortgages.
These are mortgages where we factor in the interest rate in order to develop a public
asset which will later give us a profit back on it. I mean we will once the 50 year payback
period is done. Those are rents into our HRA in perpetuity to help maintain stock. So I
can understand the point that you're making. You know these are big figures but these are
figures that are, we know the calculation
is the additional flipping of the units
that you were gonna sell, which I think broadly now
looking at the climate we're in
in the temporary accommodation crisis,
you probably would have flipped some of them yourself
because it wouldn't make sense for you to be selling them off
so I think it's important to contextualize those figures
for our residents.
Sure, but you're not contending that after 30 years
that billion pounds will be paid off.
I understand it's part of an ecosystem, but.
After 30 years, no, it's a 50 year payback period.
I mean, it was 25 years.
I don't wanna flog a dead horse.
What happens, the LISTrust mini budget,
I can't remember which candidate you voted for,
but that caused us, yeah, LISTrust, great,
that caused us a huge change in our assumptions.
I mean, again, for the seven years
where I was on the committee,
and we were constantly asking borrow, borrow,
this is a good time to borrow,
interest rates were low. So we have had to factor that in. Instead of rolling back on
the scheme, we decided to extend the payback period. So it's a long -term investment in
assets that the council will own for 100 years. We want these to be housing estates that last
for 150 years, right?
I think as well if you calculate the amount, because there's 600 extra rents coming from
this having flipped 600 homes in the thousand -inch program. So that's 600 rents. If you work
that out, I mean, it's quite a substantial sum every year coming in. Over 50 years it
does.
The pot, well, I'm not sure it does. It's not in this paper.
I'm just doing some calculations now. I'll come back to you on that. But I think it does.
So, okay, any more questions?
Sorry, I can't give the cabinet members that one for free. Rachel Reeves has gone through
Liz Trost's figures in double quick time.
So we're now way beyond Liz Trost's figures in the mini -budget.
It's now Rachel Reeves in the actual budget.
Check the gilt mark on your phone right now.
It's different from how it was last week.
Okay.
Any more questions?
No.
Okay.
Are we happy to take this paper?
Recommendations A to K?
I'm not.
No, thank you.
I'll do.
Sorry, I'm not.
I'll do it very quickly for Mr. Kelly, though, so, because it'll only be me.
So I'm abstaining on A and B, against C, against D, against E, against F, abstaining on G,
against H, abstaining on I, against J, and abstaining on K.
Sorry, against H, abstaining on I and J.
Sorry, abstaining on I, against J, and abstaining on K.
And we're okay. We're uncomplicators.
OK. Brilliant. OK. Thank you very much.

10 Review of Fees and Charges (Paper No.25-14)

And so we will now move on to item 10, Review and Fees and Charges.
We'll take Ms Bury again. Thank you.
Thank you, Chairs.
Right, so this is a relatively small paper on the fees and charges within housing.
The general overall council approach is to increase discretionary charges by 2 .2%.
This paper covers charges for the Home Improvement Agency, the Traveller's site, Pitch Fees
and watch. Usually would include housing notices and houses of multiple occupation, but obviously
there's an earlier paper on that. The Director of Finance has commented that the overall
income levels from these charges within this paper are minimal, so they will be incorporated
as part of an annual review of income levels as part of the development budget process.
I'll take any questions.
Thank you.
Any questions?
No?
Okay.
So are we happy to – oh, hang on.
Is there a vote on this?
There is.
So are we happy to support the recommendations on this?
We are, everyone?
Yes, okay, brilliant.
Okay, fabulous.

11 Review of the Heating and Hot Water Account and revision of charges for the 2025/26 financial year (Paper No.25-15)

So moving on to item number 11, which is a review of the heating and hot water account
and revision of the charges of the 2005 -26 financial year.
And it's Miss Bury again.
Thank you, Chairman.
Oh, it's Mr. Stewart, sorry.
This report concerns the management
of the heating and hot water account
and the setting of a chart of 2025 -26.
There are currently 3 ,686 properties
currently served by a communal heating system
with all but 246 covered by the heating
and hot water account.
Those 246 are covered by individual metering
and billing arrangements that ensures that residents in those homes only pay for what
they consume.
As members will be aware, the global energy market has been extremely volatile.
This was reflected by the 270 percent increase in the charge for 2023 -24, which still left
the account in deficit.
A 10 percent increase in 24 -25 is likely to deliver a reduced deficit of around $65 ,000
at the end of the current year.
Spot purchasing energy through laser has delivered a 44 % reduction from October 2024 and it is
recommended that a 20 % reduction be made to charges for 2025 -26 which should deliver a
small surplus on the account by year end.
We will review the position again in the autumn.
Those residents connected to a communal heating system benefit from the Council's ability
spot purchase energy in bulk, and on average will pay 25 % less across the year.
Happy to take any questions.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Okay.
I think everyone around the table feels this is quite good news.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we're happy to support the recommendation.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
Well, that's the end of the meeting.
Chair, can I make a comment?
You can.
I have never been at a housing committee that's finished at 9 .18.
With such a bulky.
I've been at one that's finished at midnight.
I think I think it's I think it's respect. I think it's respect for your last meeting
Oh, was it I think that's what it is. Oh, thank you. Everyone was on their best behavior
And you know wanted to get the job done. It's pretty much we do have one one announcement though, please
And I'll pass over to councilor ticket them
I just wanted to let the committee know because it's the there isn't another housing committee until it will have happened is that
Brian Riley is retiring
And you know obviously his presence, you know
He's not here tonight, but Brian is both literally and
kind of existentially a giant in housing
and local government.
He has taught me so much I can't even begin
and is a phenomenal officer who has,
the reason why we can do many of the things
that we pass tonight is because of the careful stewardship
of the HRA and the housing department
and he leads a phenomenal team of amazing officers
and he will be very much missed because you go to any conference and Brian is just bigger
than my figure and yeah, good luck in his retirement.
May I say on behalf of the residents as well, can we pass on, mind I will speak with Brian
myself, for the rest of the meeting, can we pass on on behalf of the residents?
Thank you very much.
I knew Brian when he was an estate manager.
And he's worked his way up.
And he has been very helpful to me throughout the past.
If I take a residence matter to him, he sorted it.
Thank you.
Okay.
On that, I think we'll end the meeting.
But thank you very much for your attendance and thank the officers as well.
And thank you very much, Mr Price, for all of the dedication to this committee.