Environment Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Tuesday 17 September 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Environment Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Tuesday, 17th September 2024 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

hello and good evening, everyone welcome to the 17th September.
2024 edition of the Environment Committee I am Councillor Demick Oakley, I am Councillor for St Mary's, and I am the Chair of this Committee here with me this evening is also Councillor Judy Gaza as the Cabinet Member for the Environment as well as Paul Chadwick as the Executive Director for Environment and Community Services I'll ask that other members of the committee, including Councillors and officers introduce themselves when their first participate in discussions.
and also if officers 1 2% of reports.
we have a relatively light agenda for today, so hopefully not a controversial one either, so we will start off just ask in if there are any apologies.
thank you, Chair, apologies had been received from Councillors and an Belton Dobelis and Sutter's.
for apologies.

1 Minutes - 6th February 2024

OK, so moving onto the agenda for tonight, we start off with the minutes and we asked members if there are any objections to confirm in the previous minutes of the 6th of February as a correct record.
no okay, I'll take that as agreed then.

2 Declarations of Interest

secondary, we have any declarations of interest, so do Members have any declarations of either pecuniary.
or other vegetable or non vegetable interests.
Councillor White.
an extra it's introducing safety Surrey county council were the Tooting Bec Ward, I'm a member of community renewable energy Wandsworth who do have work with the the Council by jaw, no itinerary or financial gain from my involvement with them.
thank you, Councillor Mowat.
are there any other declarations?
OK, so we've received a request for a Member to adjust the Committee in relation to agenda Item number 7, as the it's been for park item via Standing order 66 to make sure that he's not waiting around for the entire duration of the meeting, I propose that we be ordered the agenda and allow Councillor Graham to,
and we allow Councillor Gruen to speak as the second item, so that'll be moving Item number 7 to number 2 is that agreed by the Committee.
OK, thank you.

3 Revision to the Future Arrangements with Enable Leisure & Culture (Paper No. 24-224)

OK so with them, and we come to our first substantive paper of tonight, so that is item number fee, which is the revision to the future arrangements with enable leisure and culture.
so, starting off in this paper again, this has not to do with enables contract extension potential contract extension, which would be discussed at the November committee, this is to do with the direction of travel, including the potential in sourcing of 10 members of enables team into the Council.
we have for deputation requests, so other committee agreed to receive these deputations.
OK.
OK, so we've had a slight change to the order, so I think it's the first deputation is coming from Mr Peter ramble and he is a number of firms are choosing common and MC.
I haven't got time.
I thank you for joining us, Mr Rameau, your deputation speech can last up to five minutes and then afterwards you may have question there may be questions for you from the audience, but please pass on the microphone and mixed up.
thank you very much.
this is a joint deputation from the Tooting Common Management Advisory Committee and the friends of Tooting Common, we're very grateful for the opportunity to bring this deputation.
in the time available since the paper was published, it does not really be impossible fully to consult our members and other Commons users.
but we have the following points
in principle, transferring the work of monitoring third party contracts to the Council, as proposed, could be appropriate, as it would remove the current potential for duplication and overlap between the Council and enable there are, though, a number of important points of clarification needed if the proposed changes are to be successful.
the main reason given for the changes is to seek to ensure that the management of green spaces accords with the strategic priorities of the Council, this is, though, no perhaps not perhaps very specific, and the paper does not explain why the current arrangements fail to achieve this.
we wonder what, specifically the council priorities are and how the proposed changes would achieve the intended results, perhaps we could ask for clarification on on these points.
we note the intention to transfer 10 staff from enable to the Council.
however, the paper it's not clear what specific greenspace functions would remain with enable, we think it would be useful outside this meeting and in contact between ourselves and council officers, to clarify dates and identify current work that will enable does and what would be transferred and what would remain,
this is important in order to be clear how it is intended that management of green spaces would operate overall in future.
we note in para 4.2 of the paper that one of the officers transferred would have quote oversight of enable delivery, so it would be helpful to be clear what delivery that's re, referring to as just one example of the need for clarity on items of work.
we infer from para 4.9 that biodiversity, as a topic will at least for the present, remain, with enable pending further consideration.
however, responsibility for biodiversity strategy will transfer to the Council.
we wonder how that interface will work on the intention to transfer clients, man management of the grounds, maintenance and try contracts monitoring of these contracts will be a very important part of this to ensure effective delivery.
it will input be important that this monitoring includes, as at present, with enable a regular and sufficient onsite presence on green spaces to identify any problems, and we are glad that has a very recent meeting, the Council confirmed that this will be the case, can we also ask the Council to confirm that the transferred staff will be proactive?
in developing appropriate solutions to problems and organising these with the contractors related to this, can we be assured that the transferred staff will indeed work full time on green space contract issues and that this resource, once transferred to the Council, will not also then partly be used for other work within the Richmond and ones with partnership in general we would welcome and an assurance that the changes will not reduce the expert resource available for Tooting Common or and other green spaces.
so there are a number of points where we think clarification is needed
and we think the committee will want to be clear on these points before deciding on the proposals, we also trust that communication channels will not be adversely affected by these changes, while we recognise that some channels may be somewhat different under the new arrangements it will be important that Max and friends groups are able to continue to raise issues about the management of green spaces.
and to receive satisfactory and prompt responses, we assumed that the Council will be promulgating these communication channels in due course.
any new arrangements need to work well and, whatever happens, the Tooting Common Mark and friends Group should be properly consulted on matters of policy, as well as on general issues of delivery, it will be important that Council officers, as well as contractors, attend a regular joint meetings.
thank you again for the opportunity to bring this deputation.
thank you, Mr Obama, and also congratulations on your exquisite time, and now it's exactly five minutes.
so
just to start off, would any officers involved in this report to respond to Mr Rammell,
thanks Chair, thank you very much for your for your deputation and for all the work you do on a par cul ar ôl on our common.
so some of these subjects we touched on briefly, but I suppose the key for me is that we we continue to have that dialogue, because some of the answers at this moment in time is they're not very easy for meter to answer and some of the responses and the ways of working going forward we want to collaborate with the friends and the MAC groups to make sure that they are effective for the particularly local areas as well as a more borough wide.
I'm quite keen that those solutions are co-produce between all the different partners, rather than me saying this is what we're going to do today.
because that's how were more likely to get buy in and better understanding of the best solution in terms of the key.
objective of the two Parks officers that will come out of enable will move to transfer to the Council, they are directly related to managing the grounds maintenance contract, so that that provision within the current enable contract will be removed, but the rest of the contracts around parks and open spaces will remains that all enables responsibilities, we save for monitoring for grounds, maintenance contract will continue, and that includes you asked yesterday,
the provision and and direct in the parks events, police as well
in terms of biodiversity.
by virtue of the current arrangements that we have when enable was created for very, very good reasons, all the expertise and strategic oversight of those service areas, including managing parks, contract managing parks and biodiversity and trees, and things that are all that transferred over so the Council now is wanting to without our ambitions to have the best green spaces and open public realm want to be able to direct and shape that policy with it. Stakeholding code in the friends of on a Mac groups,
to deliver the best parks that we can and with that resource, setting the strategic direction and biodiversity and parks and trees, we feel that will be best placed to be able to do that.
I or in your question around being proactive and on-site monitoring, I explain to you how the monitoring and self monitoring that would be much better, more outcome focused and that you won't lose that contact while I can't say, is the greenspace contract officers will only be doing greenspace stuff because we want to be resilient and we want our staff to be able to work across other disciplines as well.
and we will need to cover holiday and sickness and things like that, so the whole client monitoring team which Joe lead will be available to make sure that the enable contract works that grounds maintenance, contract works and all the contracts that we manage to ensure that the residents get the best services.
as part of the Leisure and and parks operations and the last bit I think, was around communication with the friends, like I said at the beginning, absolutely that will continue how how we deliver, that I would like to speak to you all outside of this meeting once we know that the staff transferring because that's not been agreed yet,
and then we can decide how how that might look like in the future, but we will do that in partnership with the friends group than the Mac.
thank you, Mr Eddie, and just because it slipped your mind, I wanted issue as Matthew EDI, our Director of culture and Leisure.
so thank you for your response, do Members have any questions to make to the deputation?
Councillor Cook,
tha, thank you, Mr Rahman was very, very, very clear, could I just ask you kind of a supplementary question to things that sort of the third paragraph in the note we have here with regard to monitoring third party contracts you, you say the Council did change arrangement could be appropriate and it would remove the current potential for duplication and overlap.
so they're both kind of hypothetical on the, or I are you aware of any example where that has actually been a come, conflict or difficulty, and something hasn't worked.
no, I am not aware of any.
when we were setting out the general position, but not aware, of any examples of problems.
Keep are there any other questions?
okay, well, thank you so much deputation, Mr Rameau, you can go back to the public gallery.
and I can next call Mark Le both to the gallery who is a member of Wandsworth Common friends, and there may see.
o
as to the certain applications.
she's just been.
so normally it would just be one.
when we asked one person OK, so usual convention is for for one person speak, very few, both wanted to try him in that that's OK, you will still have a total of five minutes for your deputation.
thank you.
yes, we understand that thank you, and thank you Chair and good evening, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Mark Lubov, namely Chair of the Wandsworth Common Management Advisory Committee, we'd be this evening is Julia bought who is one of the co-chairs of the friends of Wandsworth Common, thank you indeed for agreeing to take a deputation from wards with Corbyn on this very important subject.
I'm gonna make a few comments now we understand and recognise that a contract negotiations that have been taking place with the table.
moreover, sensitive nature nature and involve people's jobs, however, we have been disappointed by the lack of initial consultation on this matter, with the various mac and friends groups around Wandsworth green spaces, we are at the same time grateful to Councillor Judy, Gaza and Matthew EDI for their time yesterday and for the reassurances that they provided and the clarifications they provided to a number of our questions.
we were also pleased to hear that the various friends and Matt groups will be involved in a continuing discussions on this matter, leading up to the what is now very important November committee meeting, we understand that this is the direction of travel meeting, it appears that the November Committee meeting will be a meeting that will make all the big decisions about the enable contract going forward.
however, we still have a number of questions and seek clarification on a number of matters, the paper notes that new arrangements will realise greater benefits to residents, that's what it says, but it is not clear to us what those benefits will be at this stage if in fact they include a significant increase in events being planned on the green spaces we have concerns that this will adversely affect the nature of a common which is not a part but quite a different animal. Our recent experience with Zippos Circus has shown only too clearly the damage that big public events can have on common land.
we are also surprised that the paper does not contain any risk assessment of the proposed changes, busy is to be implemented.
picking up the point from colleague Peter ramble were not clear how biodiversity services, so critical to both the protection and the development of the carbon will be provided going forward, is in particular the role of the Strategic by others diversity officer who is being proposed will transfer the working for the Council but perhaps more importantly,
powers for point 8 and 4.9 of the paper.
raised the prospects of perhaps the entire biodiversity team transferred from unable to the Council in April 2025, something we understand, subject to be considered at the November Committee meeting.
we therefore seek assurances that the knowledge and expertise of enables excellent biodiversity to will not be lost.
we are, moreover, concerned about the potential impacts only enable team from these proposed changes, potentially on their morale and forward commitments, and we're not wish to lose the specialist knowledge that they have.
finally, we are not clear how the day-to-day relationships with the makam friends groups will work, as it appears that we will have three points of contact under the new arrangements.
we'd like to close by just wishing to highlight that the debt that they enable officers we currently deal with on a regular basis, our local, accessible, responsive and professional.
we feel they enable team is performing an excellent job for our green spaces.
our relationship with them is with the tenants of mutual respect and support and collaboration and cooperation.
many thanks Chair.
thank you very much, Mr and above, for your deputation, Mr Eady, would you like to come back and make a response to the deputation?
yes, thank you Chair and thank you for your deputation, so I think some of the things were similar to the previous conversation, but I probably didn't clarify the biodiversity issue with the officer, so currently the council has no expertise within the client function of the council to be able to,
challenge and encourage enable to go further and set the strategic direction of what the DUP biodiversity should be in a contract is all contained within the enable team, so the purpose would be that if our strategic officer came across enable would still deliver the agreed biodiversity plan, an action plan and deliver against our biodiversity strategy, but the Council would have the expertise to make sure we are pushing to go further and make sure it meets the Council's expectations.
it also I would hope, that are much closer working alignment to our internal teamed up our climate team are planning team and things like that as well, because we will be sharing offices, we'd be sharing meetings, should be sharing groups and there'd be much closer connection, so I hope that gives you a little bit more comfort around the reasoning for that in terms of the wider biodiversity team I mean that's a decision,
for November committee, there are still discussions to be had with enable they're very sensitive, as you suggest.
this paper is just set in the direction of travel that with that without potential.
the
while I say that and we're talking about direction of travel, we're not looking to change the scope of what in April is delivering, we're not expecting huge amounts of events to change, that's not what we're expecting, this is the potential for an extended contract and if we weren't extending it will thinking about going in house we would be going out to the market to go through a competitive process.
so where those staff and those services will be protected either.
the extinction continues to run the services, maybe with some modifications and improvements to the contract, and that's where we wait where we go in want to improve the delivery wanna go further, we want to be more ambitious and this is how we want to do it make sure we get the best value for the Council and its residents.
but if we weren't looking for an extension of bringing it in house, those staff would move across to a new contract to other Council, so while I can understand, staff might be anxious because there's uncertainty at the moment.
I'd like to show people that the Council has huge ambitions for its parks, Greens open spaces in biodiversity, whether that's would enable or with it within the council, and we've want to speak to those staff and give them the reassurance if that's helpful.
because we value what they're doing on the ground extra as well, and we want to continue to benefit from their Exwick expertise and knowledge and commitment.
I think we talked about the day-to-day relationship and management.
let's co-produce what that might look like, what does good look like, let's do that together, as a as as a group, when we understand what the what the provision might look like and how the management might look.
and I think I've covered all of your questions.
and in terms of realising benefits, hopefully it's more closer, more strategic working from the Council perspective to deliver better outcomes, more collaborative and harness the great work that enable do as well lots of the stuff, a normal Council functions, Auden Emily, but there's other stuff that enable do brilliantly well like the community engagement the events management managing community facilities,
providing access to our parks and engaging with our community and residents or those things if an extension is granted will continue.
thank you Mr.
Councillor Cook, you have a question to ask to the deputation, thank thank you, Chair, thank you, thank you, Mr Lugovoi, thank you very much for a very, very clear also I completely share your you also sentiment of praise of enable I was it occurred to me as he was speaking. Can you see any
benefits any upsides to what's being proposed, you know what, what, what is it, that we're trying to fix here and what you can can you see, is there something in amongst everything has proposed, you think that'll be worth having?
but I think, unfortunately, that from from our perspective, and I think Julia would agree with me here that.
we don't think it is broken, we don't think takes need fixing, but that's looking through our lids, you know we have a very good day-to-day relationship with all the key teams within the table that deal with the with the parks functions and particularly over the last few years the people that they have brought on board pupils they've recruited.
have been excellent, very committed, very passionate people and very responsive and, at the end of the day, we all volunteers, although this is something that committee, the friends Committee, we're all volunteers, and we like to have responses, Trudeau to,
concerns that we may have the pop up like to Zippos Circus, members of the committee may not know, but we headed to Zippos Circus of event on Bellevue fields, part of Waterford common, and they went on when the ground was very wet and soggy and they basically destroyed that particular piece of ground.
and that's the sort of thing that we want to try to protect the common against so sorry I mean the end of the day, I think we feel that we were happy with very happy with the situation at the moment but I think two levels thank you Mark and Councillor Cook just further to your comment. So in our friends greatly we have over 800 members, we have an enormous number of people who write into us.
who catches on the common to say how amazing ones with common looks, and we have seen over the years we've lived here and under enables tenure a huge increase in its appearance in the rewilding in the biodiversity, the habitat management and in collaboration with volunteers who help the biodiversity team provide some manpower which is very good for volunteers, it's very good for community engagement.
so really echoing what Mark was saying at the moment we can't see why there is an issue, but it's very interesting to hear Mr. Eddie and how important it is that biodiversity is to the Council, and I think I would say that we are all delighted that it is so important and and we would encourage anything that helps that.
but we think the biodiversity management has been superbly done and been improving year on year recently,
thank you, are there any other questions for either member?
OK, well, thank you very much, both for your deputation, so then next I'd like to call Kate Alan from forever fish ponds.
thank you, miss Alan, for attending and for making your Deputation here five minutes.
thank you, I'm from forever fish ponds, which is the recognised friends Group for fish ponds fields in Tooting well fish ponds fields are thriving before they were open to the public, in 2021 they were sad, neglected and locked now there are flourishing community space where sport, social interaction and biodiversity all thrive.
and it's vital that future arrangements support the vision of fish ponds as a place of wellbeing in the round, this is its unique gift to a densely urban part of Tooting and to its community, it's an oasis and a lifesaver.
getting balance in management of the space between sport, health and wellbeing and biodiversity has been foundational to the fields flourishing.
and flourishing for the community, and currently all these areas sit under one roof in enable.
and we paid tribute to enable for them.
vigilant work in balancing these priorities, to ensure that the fulfils deliver their full potential for social value,
and we ask the Council to priorities ties this need to, as they conduct the review that's been referred to, of where the further enable services, including biodiversity and sports development, should be brought in house.
in in all of this, as others have said, a strong working partnership is absolutely key and our partnership with enable has been strong and positive, and we very much echo what others have said about the need for effective partnership and communication.
to be firmly built into future arrangements.
thank you, thank you for the opportunity to make these points to the committee.
thank you, Mr Alan, for your deputation and again.
Mr E D, would you like to come back to that?
thank you, thank you very much for your deputation and for the work and your positive feedback about Fishbone, Ferozi, fish ponds.
what for things that we are proposing do not intend to compromise that, in fact it affects it is looking to build on the great work that's been done, you know, and be even more ambitious and effective partnerships, is gonna be Kate that enable will still be a really valued partner as part of the operation whether or not their monitoring at grounds maintenance contractor,
or not being a strategic lead for biodiversity, the biodiversity team was still be delivering a biodiversity neighbour, we're doing the work in sports and leisure and mental health, and things like that, so we're trying to strengthen the partnership, explore more opportunities and,
effective communication and partnership working, as you said, and you've also these critical to that and one, and that's what we would like to continue and strengthen even further, thank you.
thank you, Mr Eddie.
Councillor White, you have a question for Ms Allen.
yeah
thanks thanks again and thanks for all the work that you do with fish ponds, who have really been fantastic in supporting the opening of fish ponds, are much greater than it was previously so, and I think you've done a great job as far as that's concerned, but is there any issues around the integrity may be of some of the classes that are given?
you know, maybe the women and only classes or anything like that is there anything that so there's a classes of going very well, there's a very enthusiastic set of people who come to a fitness class and there's a different one every day of the week and and new ones are being added and certainly it requires some careful architecture to ensure that the women's class worked with security and privacy for the participants.
and there are one or two little issues to count that arose to that had to be address, but actually enable and ourselves, and the class participants and the instructor have all work together, and good solutions have been found to all that.
thank you.
thank you, Mr Alan, Councillor Cook, you have a question to thank you, thank you, thank you, Michelle on, and I I find myself in agreement with Councillor White doesn't often happen.
no, it's really really pleasing to see how well you have, the things have worked in 21, so very, very, very good, to describe that and the the strength of a relationship with a enables to that prompted you to ask a similar question to the prove to the one I asked the previous deputation, is there anything you would point to do you think?
enable don't do very well or that needs needs rectifying, but I think, as with the previous Speaker, we we, it would never have you know, we were happy with current arrangements and it wouldn't have occurred to us on our own to suggest changes to them.
thank you, are there any other questions from Members for Ms Allen?
no OK, well, thank you, so much, for your deputation is on any, you can return to the public gallery now.
and our last deputation for this paper, we have pat pat gross, she and she is a member of fence of once we've park.
thank you for coming this gross, and again you have five minutes for your deputation speech, thank you are good evening, I'm Pat gross, the Chair of the friends of wanting to park, as many of you all know, that we are voluntary organisation and we've been working together for with local residents for over 10 years to preserve, protect and improve the are hugely valued green space. I'd like to thank the Committee for the opportunity to speak at this meeting because future management of Wandsworth green spaces has a significant and lasting impact on our park and local community.
we broadly welcome the recommendations in the report that had been clarified in our preliminary meeting and we're optimistic that the mixed arrangements to bring some services back in house will vastly improve provision and delivery for the benefit of green spaces.
what we seek to understand or the details behind the proposed changes as they relate to Windsor Park over the last decade Thames Fields St. Mary's East Putney and Wandsworth Town wards have seen significant housing development, we believe Wandsworth Park has not received adequate funding for such needed improvements to meet the challenges of a huge increase in part use from these developments in fact we do not believe this has even been adequately recognised but trust me we see it on the ground every day.
how will the council ensure that funding, management and maintenance services go hand in hand to address the pressure, some existing and future housing development?
benefits delivered by urban parks.
to local communities are well known, Wandsworth park would like to continue to provide opportunities for the friends of ones with Park would like to continue to provide opportunities for green prescribing green social prescribing, does the Council plan to support these initiatives?
warmly welcomed the Borough Council's commitment to improving biodiversity and thank enable for the creation and maintenance of our beautiful wildflower meadow, however, there have been there has been little to no communication about the benefits of an urban meadow residents have often expressed concern about loss of this space and cricket teams regularly retrieve balls from the meadow by breaking the fencing, making the area look unsightly and abandoned the reality is, native Meadows bear little flowering interests for half of the year
managing public expectations and educating them about the importance of biodiversity. How and why Meadows look pretty for half of the year, but Drogba for the remainder can go a long way to ensuring success. What are the Council's plans to work with her friends of ones with park to further enhance biodiversity, as well as raising awareness of the associated benefits once of Park is home to more than 50 different tree species and the parks tree canopies supports a healthy population of birds, bats and numerous pollinators
but our trees are under constant threat from climate change, soil compaction and diseases branch death is this very serious problem and residents are deeply concerned about the risk of branches falling? There is an urgent need to improve tree maintenance. Someone's were Park. What steps will the Borough Council take to ensure significant improvements to the safety and the health of our trees? We are acutely aware of the challenges facing parks, funding urban development access and competing demands on Park use. We want to know that diversity and inclusion, including women LBGT Q those with disabilities and 50 plus activities, will be brought into consideration of sport and fitness offerings in our park. And, lastly, increasing climate issues will certainly demand many new challenges. We want to know that this place is a significant part in your thinking and planning for the future. We're committed to working with you and supporting the Borough Council to deliver a truly responsive service to the priorities and concerns of local park users, thank you very much.
thank you very much, miss gross for your deputation, and for one last time, Mr. Eddie, would you like to make a response to the deputation?
I'm not sure it will be the last time tonight Chair, but response to this last deputation. So first of all, thank you Pat forward the work that you and the friends do, and for your deputation. There was a lot of questions there about strategy, policy and development that aren't necessarily about the enable contract or this paper, but be assured that I and we and the council were listening and we want to work with the friends and enable you know to try and address those things, and there's some really exciting things that you're talking about about how our community wants to be more engaged and made more aware of biodiversity, and that's one of the reasons why the Council would like a strategic Officer. The Dr based it's also just not about the Commons and the parties about taking biodiversity really seriously in this borough and and and being the leading Borough and Council in London and the country as how important biodiversity is
and that's what I was going to enable us to do that, but so that's part of the for clarity and the reasons why we wanted to do that and diversity. Inclusion in our parks is music to our ears. We've just launched our leisure sport and physical activity Strategy. Inclusion is at the heart of that and in 2025 is gonna be the year were really going to promote and support women and girls to be more active, volunteer more and things like that. So I welcome your comments and your feedback, as I've said to your up your colleagues, we we will. We will continue our dialogue and, when the arrangements are agreed, what what they might be, we will work with, you ought to make sure we get the maximum benefit of the arrangements that are agreed going forward. Thank you very much. We're very grateful for that communication
thank you, Mr Eddie, are there any questions, dear Miss, worse, Councillor Cook?
thank you, thank you for the the presentation and, in interesting to hear the very specific knowledge you you have of of the park. If this proposal hadn't hadn't come forward, would you have been thinking that there was something that needed to change, and would you say that that enable it is an effective organisation as currently constituted? Yes, I do think that there are issues now and and last week actually had a meeting with Councillor Gasser, because there are some serious problems that we're having with trees and with cricket balls heading people. I mean there's lots of serious things going on that are in our response to. I did meet with some people from the Council and enable regarding issues, we were getting complaints
from cricket balls by having moved the cricket wicket and quite serious dogs getting ahead, children getting hit, people getting hit walking along the river, and what happened last week was a bit shocking, because the wicket was moved, 10 yards closer to the River.
so it was like wait, this was the response that I don't know why nothing was communicated as to what the way forward is and by making the circumstance worse was very troubling, and I just know how much money did it cost to move that a little concerning?
so thank you any further questions, Councillor Jeffreys.
either everyone and the apologies for that and Councillor Jeffreys from Thomshill board, you'll have to forgive me, it's not a question so much is just to recognise on as ward councillors, Councillor Brooks and my appreciation for what the friends do.
in Wandsworth park and I think just to reiterate, partly from a your your point about the demand on the park from the significant amount of residential development that's that's been happening locally, I'm a beneficiary of that myself but very, very conscious that that the park is being used to have ever increasing levels say I hope the Department will will keep that in mind to stay progress these
these plants.
we find it particularly concerning because there is a new 30 start building that is being built of B and Q and Homebase sites, those are not even completely open yet and won't with Park is the only is the nearest place, and Windsor Park is not accommodating this enormous increase in population.
thank you, are there any other questions from Ms growth?
no, thank you, so much needed accommodation, misquote, you may return to the public gallery.
and with that we've finished our four deputations for this paper, so now it is up to the Committee to consider paper number 24, dash 2 2 4 and others, this revision to the future arrangements with enable leisure and coach. I'd like to first invite Councillor Gazetta, say a few words on this paper. Thank you. Well, I mean Good evening everybody, and thank you very much to all the friends that came and spoke and gave us your views and we are listening and we will carry on listening. We're gonna be consultant you throughout this and thank you to all the volunteers across ones with that are helping keep our parks in our open spaces green and there's loads of you. There's all the friends group, the max's the amenity societies, the the tree wardens as loads of people. I can't mention everybody, but thank you. This is how we do it, all of us together, and we absolutely appreciate that and we will be taking this forward listening to all of you, I don't want to say thank you to enable the naval staff on the ground at Wayne,
you are doing a fantastic job as this isn't the paper isn't about decline that in any way we do, you think you're doing a really good job on the ground, our parks beautiful? This is about enhancing the relationship. This is about us working more closely together. Aligning are are we are, are our aims are aligned, but we're just can we work a little bit more closely together and this is the way we're proposing doing it. So I'm gonna hand over to Matthew Mr Eddie, but just this is, I think this is a positive
step and to enable staff that may end up coming into the Council. I just wanted to say we value you, we will welcome you, we will be offering you the best possible terms and conditions are good working environment, good pension, you know, I would like to think it's a good place to work and you'd be very welcome.
thank you, Councillor Gaza and so yeah parsing onto Mr Eady for some more detail on it, thank you, Councillor gathering and are, and I echo those comments, so this paper is recommending the in sourcing and transfer of 10 staff, as noted in 4.2 and setting out the progress we are making in developing an extension proposal.
with enable to be considered by Environment Committee in November, so if I give you some context into the the proposed approach.
currently, if we take it low by Lot 1, currently, the Council procures the grounds maintenance contractor.
we pay the contract and then enable then monitors that contract.
and then we monitoring neighbour who monitor that contract.
there is you hear a bit later in the agenda how we have redesigned the grounds maintenance contract to be much more output and outcome driven self monitoring, more quality assurance, with the additional benefits of plan London living Wage and,
recycling within the contract, the council were seeking to bring to officers across to make sure that we can develop and harness the potential of that contract and the additional resources that will bring.
while enable can continue to manage the parks
on a day-to-day an operational level,
but we will do that in partnership with the contractor when they are appointed and with the friends and Mac groups.
in terms of the trees.
we want to trees are a hugely important to this borough and we value them and they are important to our landscape.
but we need to be a better connected to our highways teams, to our planning teams and be able to be responsive directly, as this is another example where the Council procures the trees managing contract, this to then enable monitor those two contacts and then the Council monitors enable who we monitor those two contracts so this is also about efficiency.
and in biodiversity, you've heard me say how important this is to the Council and.
we want to be able to have resources to be able to harness the potential the appetite for us to go be with the one of the best in class for biodiversity in the Borough, not just in our parks and open spaces, but everywhere across the borough, including supporting residents and businesses scores trusts the other voluntary sector this isn't just about our parks and open spaces and on and lastly,
for the Sports Development resource and for responsibility for developing and delivering leisure strategy.
was with the responsibility of enable, but over the last year we, the Council, was gripped this because of a how important it is, and at this last Committee the Leisure Strategy was agreed, so we would like a strategic officer to be able to make sure that we deliver on the promise of those actions.
and work with the whole partnership across the Council, not just the voluntary sector but broader with the NHS and business and other key institutions in the Council as well, and at the moment that resource is reserved to enable and the Council would like greater control, better oversight to be able to deliver the ambitions that we have
happy to answer any questions Chair.
thank you, Mr really, for that summary, and with that we can now open the floor to councillors to ask any questions.
so starting operator for Councillor Cook.
thank you well high, the burly nowhere to start having having heard the two deputations as a remarkable achievement, I don't think I can remember in all the times I've been on this committee in one capacity or another.
four deputations and I think some measure of the extreme concern that this this paper is created and there's a there's a unanimity of messages, well, isn't that people are basically saying and it was my reaction to the paper as well was, or what is the problem that we're trying to fix here because everybody agrees that enable whose basically work very well there are some absolutely superb peaceful who of course came from the council set up as a as a mutual,
who have done a fantastic job, of course, again be things that can be fixed and are very interested to hear the wants the park examples.
but I don't think the answer to any of them.
is used to dismember enable, I don't think that helps at all the the those problems should be addressed and dealt with, and I'm sure they can be and the fact that other places work so well, I think you should give ones as part people confidence that they can be.
just looking at the paper, what a contrast when we set up enable the thoroughness of that that exercise the the the papers which were the luminous, and yet here we have a five page, I must say very badly written rather incoherent paper, proposing something of of really major significance and the irony, because one of the complaints is about transparency, yet there are. It's very difficult to discern in here to sense of why you trying to do this and what is the problem? They're trying to fix. There is virtually no example other than one reference to the biodiversity. I'll come back to that. There is no example of what is wrong and what what needs to be to be sorted out. So why are you doing it? Is it cost-saving? The figures that are in here indicate that no money will be saved, so presumably isn't that why break-up of successful organisation and scattered the pieces around if you want a strategic biodiversity important, we can all agree on the biodiversity. The importance of that one
you, we've we've always felt that in the borough for years and years and years, and I think we are very high achieving.
in that regard, but if you want that
rather than breaking up, enable and moving the pieces around, why not hire that capacity, after all, this new administration has not been shy about hiring new people, has it so why break-up enable?
strategic direction again, the irony I don't detect in this paper any sense of strategic direction, and yet throughout there is a complaint that all we need more strategic direction, but you don't say what that is.
I find it really completely baffling, and so I I mean much more than I could say, that I would I would turn to Councillor gas and I'll say, Well, can you give me one example, just one example of where there's been a failure of strategic direction and where what you are proposing is Go Fix matters one will do.
I think it's more appropriate Thursday of Mr E D comes in to answer the questions that you've directed.
that, Mr Eddie, would you like to come back on that, so I think the question was what is one failure?
to be honest, I I'm I'm in a place where I want to build on strengths and just hiring another biodiversity officer to oversee, enable to deliver that biodiversity offer.
is then Craigavon duplication,
so we want to harness and?
retain the experience and knowledge of what enable has brought provide some continuity, but also provide the ability to be able to them to connect even greater to a number of different things that the council were doing to strengthen the position and strengthen the potential delivery of what enabled dose there's this paper.
he's mostly talking about 10 members of staff out of a significant cohort of staff.
therefore, the services that enable actually deliver would be affected marginally.
the most significant thing.
the most significant thing is that they will not be monitoring the grounds maintenance contract.
thank you for that, Mr really.
Councillor sorry, Councillor books.
thank you very much, I've got some questions about the financial points raised in the paper, there's three of them, the I don't want him to take them altogether.
in the paper mentions one of the benefits of many of enable being its ability to raise third party funding, and it has a fundraising team to do that, I'd be interested to know how much third-party funding it it, it has been raising and what the status of that fundraising team is at the moment.
I'm interested in the VAT liability of enable, or the operations currently carried out by naval, if the carried out by the Council, given its currently a charitable company, limited by guarantee, will that change.
and then on the concession fee, the paper makes great play of the hope that the concession fee will rise in the renegotiation, but is that a sentiment that's shared by enable, and how confident can we be that, given that underpins the the case that it is actually going to happen,
thank you, Mr re, so I think all three of those questions are questions that probably more with helpfully be answered when we've had further discussions with an April and there's a proposal, because this isn't about the future of enable today this is about 10 officers and,
I don't have the information around the amount of funding that enables brought in, but absolutely that's a benefit.
the vat implication, obviously the Council's net vat, so that's more preferable and via and the enable will be subject to irrecoverable VAT which they can't claim back, but again with drifting into what the rationale will be for proposal extent or an extension proposal which will be considered at the November environment committee.
if you're talking about the finances in the paper, if that's where we're leading to.
the increase in costs because we're still harness all the benefits that you've just talked back to enable still be running order, services apart from trees, but that's just a labour intensive, you know there's no benefits from a charitable respective for that it's just people and people travelling around the borough is the better benefits those staff will get so.
better holiday sickness and also pension contributions should they wish to be members of the local government pension scheme, but also one off costs to get them set up, you know, licensees laptops, you know those kinds of things.
so that that's the financial and of this paper, but the other staff I've given you a flavour, sorry, I can't give you the information around the amount of funding that enable was brought in, but they will be that will form part of the paper for November quickly want to come back on one of those point sorry it's just the
you in your answer to Councillor Cohen to me just now, you saying it's the this, paper's only about the 10 members of staff were being asked to endorse the direction of travel, so it is about the future arrangement going forwards. Sorry, I, I don't really get how we're supposed to make a considered view of with Odd future registration travel without the information. It's a light paper
sorry, I just don't see how it's a decision we can make with what is in front of us, Mr meeting, so, with the Committee's not being asked to endorse the approach, the committee is being asked to note that officers are working with unable to develop an extension proposed to which we are. We are fully committed to. There will be considered by the Environment Committee, so when we're not asking for an endorsement of the committee, we are want to let you know that we're working hard to get an extension and maximise the benefits of that partnership that it brings.
so you would confirm that the insults and staff that's separate to the extension that's coming in November.
the the in sourcing of the 10th officers, the trees team, that is this for this paper, that the extension proposal and all the implications for them vat and the funding they bring in things like that, that is, that will often part of a rationale of why we would recommend or not an extension of the November Committee.
thank you, Minister Edi Councillor was born.
yeah, I I've worked with enable on various projects, I've always found them good, I've always enjoyed working with them and I think it's wrong.
to ask us, where is the failure, we're not nobody's looking for failure here anywhere, and that's not what this is about, this is part of a process.
since enable or its predecessor were created, there has been an ongoing relationship, organic relationship with the Council, the Town Hall and its officers, and so sections of that body have been brought back into town hall control over the years going back four five, six seven years in the history of this organisation not because of failure.
but because of a belief that that was a better way of trying to achieve as a strategic objective, for example, on the arts and stuff like that when.
when it was changed, the relationship with the with was changed, so that isn't the process here, we're not looking for failure in in what's happened it, I think it's it's significant that the via the response and from the various societies that we've had this evening has been positive about enable by and large if you add in some of the responses we've had that have not had deputations, it's perhaps a more mixed picture if you look at the stuff that's been sent to councillors.
but none of it is talking about failure, that is a suggestion, sometimes I think, about other problems, I think it's about cohesion and about connectivity and an ability to put together a strategic, a strategic process and achieve a strategic objective, and I think that as a Council is what what we are now focused on and that is that is the whole point of of this discussion.
yeah, if we just look at some of the things which we may want to do in the in the future, if we look at biodiversity, for example, I'd let's see where, where that's going to take us, but if you look at other councils, other councils are putting together wildlife corridors and greenways across the boroughs and so on. It is very difficult to see how that could be done from outside of the Town Hall when you need to bring in housing estates. You need to bring in relationships with organisations and bodies, beyond the public sector, into the private sector and so on, and all of those things are going to require a much more holistic and strategic grasp, and the connectivity and connections and cohesion that I think most councils would desire in this in this area of work. So it's not about failure, it's not we anyone is saying this is broken and it must be fixed. It's about what do we want to achieve in the future and how do we pull it together and that is in this instance. The suggestion is that we require taking a section of what's what's going on outside of the Town Hall and putting it back actually into the Town Hall, where where it used to be in the old days justice, as happened a couple of times before with the history of this organisation, so let's not try and make make it about a fight or any condemned nation or anything like that over enable that's not the case. There are great organisation but
there always have to be organic changes in the way that enable relates to the Town Hall, and that's what we're that's what we're trying to put together tonight and if, if some of the staff come over to the Town Hall team, they will be most welcome because we know that the staff as are the that has set up already with enable are doing a great job in so many areas.
thank you, Councillor as well, Councillor.
Councillor, why?
yeah, I'd like to echo what Councillor.
just wanted to say that the, I think my own dealings with enable have been quite positive, but within the summary here there is, I'm not sure whether I'm reading correctly here, so correct me if I'm wrong, Mr really, but over the last two years the Council has lost a million pounds in concession, payment is that is actually Street.
so his true, insofar as the original contract required concession payment of 1 point at 2.00.7.
but the enable and the industry and the work that enable do have been subject to disruption due to the pandemic due to the Filmus filming strikes and things like that, which has meant that they've not been able to achieve, therefore, concession fee, and the Council has were has worked with them through those difficulties.
we're hoping now that the we've recovered there's an appetite for people to do things, to attend events, to participate in sport, we've got a very exciting and ambitious lesser strategy where we want more people to do things so we're hoping that the concession fee will grow as a consequence of that and the and the experience that enable of gained through working in Wandsworth for a long time and and 3 those really difficult challenges, so it is true but it's been for reasons that enabled being unable to control.
Councillor Jeffreys.
can I just clarify there, but next year we expect to lose another half a million pounds.
so now next year, though, the concession fee hasn't been agreed survey that that would be subject to the negotiations that we're having now we're has already this year sorry a this year, so this year yeah, it's it still will not be at the 2.7 million. The negotiations are ongoing for the future. We would like them to get back to the place where they were, where they did. The original proposal, when they said that within five years I'd get or earlier than that let's get to that, but this is what we're working out and this is why this isn't today about
who said what did with what's working, what isn't working, we want to work with unable to get the best value deal best outcomes for the council, and that's what we will continue to do officers worked really hard and enable officers worked really hard over the next few weeks I'll be able to present something to committee for consideration in November.
Councillor Jeffreys, thank you Chair and I think it's clear that Councillor Osborne didn't have any involvement in writing these papers, I think they would have benefited from some of his engagement there, I think of the back of that one can perfectly recognise the new administration's.
decided to do this, that's perfectly within its peer review, but I do have to sort of key questions which speak to an overarching concern just around the.
around the sort of policymaking aspect of this and are and are concerned that that might be a bit back to front that were jumping to the decision before we have run through the usual consultation so that my first question was just around stakeholder engagement we've had a number of deputations this evening we have had concerns expressed about wanting to be engaged in this process, there have been references to conversations with the Cabinet Member only yesterday and at the end of last week
the question I think, comes that shouldn't we work out what good looks like first before we embark on this process and the second question.
I again, similarly, shouldn't this decision form part of the audit that is being used to determine the contract extension in November at 4.00.4 and 4.5, it seems like there is certainly a case to be made for for what the administration wants to do, but it seems like it would be better to do that as part of a wider analysis and understanding of of the contract overall so that we can work out what we want to extend and what we don't want to extend its deputy,
thanks Councillor Sue in terms of so we're in a position where we can't deviate too far from what the current contract is, so in terms of we're going to engage in and and speak to people about, you know what they'd like to see more of is there's only limited scope and you can do it otherwise be challenged by the market in terms of how far we can go.
but
we did have a good discussion with the friends and the mat colleagues yesterday, but we also did speak to them, you know a couple of months ago as well, to let them know as much as you can when you're in a negotiation with a contractor that that's the challenge we return where we're trying to discuss and get the best value contract for the Council and you can't really have open discussions with third parties on how that's progressing them and what we think the best delivery model is in the future in terms of the Audit the order isn't looking at the effect is this of the model it's looking at how the governance works, how the accounts are open and transparent and helping us understand how we can demonstrate the value that enabled bring, but also the value that these contracts are bringing to the Council so.
I agree it's really important to the long term contract, because that will help shape and inform that, but for this, as as the reasons have already set out before you know, the two Parks officers would remains, we'll be monitoring a contract and that which has to be taken out of the contract to allow unable to do the park's management, the events, management and all those kinds of things.
the trees, so we have better connectivity with other parts of the Council and and better control and.
and then say you've heard the rationale for why biodiversity is really important and we want to we want to strengthen the Council's resources and the ability to deliver, and the same goes for the sports.
there is still teams left there that will be doing the delivery of the work of the stuff, that's already in the contract and any contracts needs to be had to demonstrate there was a continuous improvement and that will be based on engagement with the friends, groups of cohesion with residents and things like that enabled do much more than just the parks they do offence, they ran lots of community sports facilities, they run our
public because all the stuff that they do, I hope, and there is continuously looking for improvements based on restaurant feedback and restaurant centred services, and that won't stop.
are there any more questions, Mr Councillor books?
thank you Chair, just on the points about transparency in which comes up in the paper.
other examples of when enable haven't shared information, the Council have wanted to see, because we were worried tonight, we've we've been full of praise for enable, we wouldn't want to harm them reputationally, but claiming in the paper the they haven't been transparent or not shared information is quite a punchy thing to suggest.
is that the case are they not being transparent?
so I'm gonna, try Agnus work, that's slightly, because I don't want to be open in those conversations in a place where we are trying to work with enabling on an extension, are there things that could be better absolutely are we going to look to improve those in the future for negotiation a new contract absolutely and I'm sure and,
they do enable tell us where we're not doing things as well as we could be as well, and that's that's how you strengthen the partnership is about being honest with each other, and again this is what we want, not prejudice, as part of a discussion with enable we we want to address be completely open and transparent with each other.
as good partners to get the best outcomes and the best service for our residents. So apologies, Councillor, I'm not going to share things that between the partners and you know and compromise our ability to to to deliver an extension. I think Councillor gas also wants to come in on that. Councillor Claire, I mean you do have the opportunity to have a private briefing with officers which you haven't taken up that opportunity at this time. I understand, so that would be in your amendment to
yeah, but actually I react to that, I'm not quite sure what prompted that I will do that I will certainly die, certainly do that.
thank you, Councillor gas, because I was so I was just going to note that you completely, if not for the first time you completely ducked my question earlier and just handed it straight straight to straight to Mr release, who, may I try again, could you give me an example of something that hasn't worked I asked earlier for for a concrete example of a strategic and if I may also address mystery these comments just now as well put
again, I think this this thing that I would happily talk to you about in private, but not in public, OK, and I think Mr Kennedy also mentioned one earlier think it was the biodiversity point, was it?
there was no.
expression of any failures from enable. Yeah, I know it wasn't, and I will go on and say that every relationship and partnership and service has the ability to get better and stronger and improve what we're trying to do with enable is to work collectively to be able to meet their aim. That is not. The outcome of this paper is asking we're asking for a few officers, and a service to return to the Council can have more control of strategy, get more closer all our work in alignment to other council services to give better services to restaurants, while still allowing enable to do 99% of what they already do, this is not compromise in that the only services coming out in his authority potentially is tree surveys, the rest of it enabled will continue to do those things.
and those that that dialogue will continue after this meeting to try to make sure we get the best value proposition for our residents.
Edinburgh, thank you to two things, if I may well a bit a bit of gentle advice, if, if I, if I might offer it, if you want to strengthen your relationship, enable, I would suggest the way to go about it is not the right things like they have not been sufficiently transparent, which is in paragraph 3 3.3 and as my colleague Councillor Brooks,
noted, that is a very punchy thing, to put it into paper, and when you were challenged on it, you couldn't substantiate it and if I was unable, I'd be really unhappy about that because that that's getting pretty close to an accusation more broadly, nothing that I've had in the last 20 minutes half an hour or so it has given me any reassurance. In fact, quite the opposite. There is no sense of strategic direction here.
cabinet Member docked completely my my my first question and just handed it straight to yourself and I I will return to the treating to specific area, it will be at a large specific, I was astonished to hear you just say and I feel uncomfortable doing this, because I shouldn't really be having a go at an officer shall we haven't come and go at the politician, but when you said three people adjust to the trees.
it just people travelling on the around the Borough there is so much more than that they are a hugely skilled team of people, which is why the trees of this borough are generally kept in such fantastic condition. All 60,000 of them, however many there are, and so I it is. It really frightens me that you you, you have misunderstood what the challenges are. There isn't something that needs fixing here, you're gonna dismember, enable you gonna do huge damage and, I have to say, Councillor Gaza. It recalls the recent and ongoing shambles of the waste contract and heaven knows what this is going to look like in a few months' time. What if, if this is what you pursue, because I think you're getting it wrong and I haven't heard a single thing this evening, which gives me any covenants, the the. Do you know what you're doing
Mr you deal with your right to respond to that, so I don't recollect saying that went up when I was referring to the trees as well, I we're talking about the finances and I said that the costs were relate to the trees team travelling around the power which they would need to do to be able to inspect trees so I didn't say that so I just want to be clear for the record.
Councillor White.
the tone, as of this meeting, has gone down somewhat hasn't I think it's sacking officers are working really really hard to hang on. Let me let me speak, let me say to Sir, the worked really hard to try and deliver the strategic aims of this council. The council has changed hands. I think I know you probably haven't got used to that, but it's happened and we have different priorities and the officers are working really really hard to make sure that we deliver on that, so I, I think that was
I don't think that's really what happened there was was really what we want.
Gemma clarify my or clarify that because, as I hinted a few moments ago, I am profoundly uncomfortable at directed well. I've got no choice because the Cabinet Member ducks the questions whenever I asked them, so I've got no choice mystery that has done almost all of the talking so far in this meeting, which is very telling the way it should be is either Mr Chadwick, who said nothing so far or the Cabinet Member should have a grip of what is going on, should understand the strategy, the strategic direction. She's trying to chart and she's add good grip of the detail and should be able to provide examples, and so when I ask a direct question, I should be able to get an answer, but it is immediately just battered across, and so I'm in a very uncomfortable position was speaking directly to an officer which you shouldn't be like that. I don't agree with Councillor K A yeah, but I mean just to say that in in my colleagues defensive in my defence. I haven't actually said anything to this point, because it might be my colleague, officer, Matthew, has extend as given you extensive answers, you all extensive answers to a full range of questions are, in fact I've not before witnessed such lengthy answers and eloquent answers, in my view, covering many minutes and yeah. I I do regret that you you so swiftly dismissing the points of these made.
you right, though, that they are much of this, now turns to the Member's views, that's usual order events, isn't it, my colleague officers explain their position, members provide the overview, and that's where we are now, but I don't honestly I think you have to swiftly dismissed the the lengthy and eloquent descriptions of the position from my colleague,
yeah, I thank you, thank you, Mr Chadwick yeah. That's try and keep the tone of this more inquisitive in asking questions as the officers, I think, Councillor Gasay, you wish to come in yeah I do not accept that you talk to offices like that at all for answering questions. You ask me, you asked me, what did I what problems are and I ask you just one example, can you know, and I can tell you in private, I do not want to say anything like that in public, I'll have as long meeting as you like in private with officers and we can take
so you want answered them in public.
often, the answer has already been given that it's an ongoing contract and it goes well and I think it has sometimes been good, our speaks for itself, I think the cabinet member should be able to defend a paper like this without too much trouble instead of pinging it straight to officers and I feel very uncomfortable, as I said a couple of times where we get into this one on one or on an officer has not is not how it should be and I am very, very conscious of that.
the the ought, the officers had their say.
yeah, there was a brief one of of Edinburgh thing was offered until a few moments ago, No, No, No, No, No, No us, that's that no, no, no new, you know, it's not the light that no the fees,
that's not who's never offered beforehand.
I think an apology would be would help save the matter, I can confirm that brief and what is offered and the offer wasn't taken up, please can we make sure that queries are routed through the Chair Ma, Mr Eady, did you want to come in next?
yeah, I just wanted, I mean it's getting a little bit heated in here, isn't it, and how to Wood was trying to bring people back to the paper. The more substantive discussions can happen about. You know what the contract and would like and how the strategic nature of the operation deliver of the services looks like in November, committee today were set in that journey and we're also talking about bringing a number of officers into the Council a great employer, so we can be even more ambitious and deliver even more for the public and and support enable with strategic direction and allow them to do the jobs that they're there. They are contracted to do
OK, I feel like unless there's any more substantive questions for officers I feel like now is the time to move for a vote so.
so the paper
there's now for decision by the Executive number 2 4 dash 2 to 4, and do the Committee agreed to support the recommendations of the executive and paragraph 2?
you don't OK, so you undertake the Shiva okay, shall so we've taken a vote, okay, so those in favour of the recommendations which I hand.
and those against.
so that's tied fevered for fee against, as the Chair of the Committee HMO, is the tie-breaking vote, so the recommendations of the report are passed.
so without we move on to item number 2 of the agenda, which was formerly Item number 7, the petition response for the purchase of Springfield Park.

7 Petition Response: Purchase of Springfield Park (Paper No. 24-228)

we have received a request under Standing order 66 from Councillor Peter Graham to speak on this item, so does the Committee agrees to hear his speech?
yeah agree.
OK, thank you just.
Councillor Graham Woking to the Committee just before you start your speech, I'd also want to note that this is this position is based on an existing decision that the Council was made, there's no decision to be made as a result of this petition and you have also had the opportunity to speak both at.
Environment Committee and a full council about this matter, so he appreciated if we had more new information may be regarding the petition and the Council's response to that you're yeah, five minutes.
thank you and and thank you for the opportunity to speak to you again. It was indeed it was, there was last summer that I spoke to this committee in July when the Council had the opportunity to buy Springfield Park for a pound,
the petition followed immediately afterwards. I have no idea why it's taken this long for a response to be produced, particularly as it says almost nothing, it doesn't seem particularly respectful to the 1,131 Wandsworth residents who took their time to sign it, and I would expect the information at this stage, given the type of has us on, for example, the actual maintenance costs of running the park. Now it's opened the the 180,000 pounds cost, which is still cited tonight, was indicative. It was purely based on averages with now the parks open. What are the real costs so that we know what they are? It says nothing about the anticipated facilities for sports clubs a year on, including how much of the park the Council expects to be fenced off. It says nothing about the operation of this new board. How often is it meeting how many commercial entities have votes? Is the council as the sole voice for residents on that Board actually being listened to and, and it says nothing about why residents have been shut out. That wasn't the model that the planning documents envisage this commercial model with a limited company in charge, why did the Council permit the board and that company to be set up in that way, rather than going with the original proposals? But on all of those points? There's no information whatsoever. More importantly, there is still nothing on what will happen when the current pot of money runs out.
what is this board decided on who exactly will pay and how much it will cost them
the paper seems to imply that all of these questions are irrelevant because the formal window for buying the park is close, but that was true last summer.
the formal windows shut a long time ago, but the developers kept the option to buy open because they themselves know that they may struggle to maintain a park of this scale and in the long term, and they think the Council would do a better job for that same reason the option to buy is still likely to be open and the paper doesn't denied.
the petition says the maintenance costs involved are no different from any other park don't arise for five years now for and can be met easily, including by reallocating for other funding from the site a pound buys land worth millions, none of those points are addressed.
and I have to say it's a stark contrast with your approach tonight to enable, with enable alleged uncertainties about a charity with a contract where there are no performance issues, and residents are happy apparently justifies higher costs of 75,000 pounds probably far more and bringing that under your control but here developers are to be left in the paper's own words outside the Council's control with no information and residents both within the Springfield site and across Tooting worried about what might happen next. You want Trust, a charity that you think is doing a good job in our parks, but you sign Springfield Park over to property developers.
one vote on a board guarantees, nothing just this afternoon, we received confirmation of the Mayor of London's hearings into the latest phase of the development at Springfield site and, despite this Council's planning committee vote to reject building hundreds of units of municipal open land, the Labour mayor is considering doing just that the protections on land that this response implicitly relies on are not sacrosanct.
we have a Labour government, now wants to remove more of those restrictions on land, including explicitly the greenbelt, and has demanded more building in our borough, there are no guarantees.
the petition says that the only way to ensure that our parks are run properly and are run for us and our secure for decades to come is of the public to own the response simply notes, the park is open, the Council has a single votes worth of influence and the planning system has particular roles.
that view is unbelievably short term, those things are true for now.
the only way to be secure for 10 years 15 30 50 100 the only way to secure land is to own it.
unit that developers know at the hundreds of residents across Tooting whose sinus petition know it and you are choosing to fell
thank you, Councillor Graham, for your deputation, does do any Members have any questions for Councillor Graham?
no, nothing OK, we're in that case, thank you for your deputation and Councillor Graham, you can choose to sit back in the gallery.
if he does, no one have anything from me administration side to say to those residents who signed the petition.
yeah, that that that will come as part of the response to the cash limits on this substantive vapour, there's nothing in this paper.
that didn't tell us anything we didn't know like years given five minutes.
just noting that my residents and others in Tooting including County, like advocacy signage conditions, we were surprised OK, thank you OK, and with that we can start turning to the paper which, as I noted before, it's not as not a paper for decision it's note in the Council's response to the petition Councillor like I said, did you want to open?
yeah absolutely start off at 1.00 of the most beautiful park, I was there about 10 days ago, it's it's wonderful, there's all sorts of people using it all the cross section of Tooting Nell's was some communities, which is great, it's lovely to say it's great, it hasn't cost us a penny, so it's a real success story, but I take absolutely I respect what your residents say and what they signed this petition. I'm going to address it
they say they, you, you say you want to ensure they are run, property properly, run for us and secure for decades to come, and that I absolutely agree with that it is still in public ownership, it is in the ownership of the NHS Trust.
and this is the advice sector, obviously this was a big decision to we adopted or not.
yeah yeah ago, I took advice from planning officers and the advice I got was. The trust will maintain ownership of the land, the social value prospectus and the trust vision of using the part will create a community asset operated through social value model to maximise social, economic and environmental impacts for service users, staff and local communities. I think that's a very good ambition. I'm part of that social value Board says, Mr. Eddie, we have influence on that. It was slow, getting off the ground. I have to admit that out of our hands, but we've met two or three times now. Things are progressing. We're talking about what the Pavilion cafe is gonna, look like. It's gonna be a social enterprise, I'm not sure who's gonna be run by, but is gonna be very beneficial, lovely asset for people to go and have a cup of tea also, it will providing job opportunities, for I don't know what group, but it will be a very beneficial in that way. Enable have put together a proposal with us about what the sports offer could look like. We're talking about that, there won't be any fences, I think you mentioned or gates or anything like that. It's open for everybody. This park 24 7 that's in the planning of people that know about planning of to advise more about that, but that's in the consent.
the sports offer. Some of it will be paid for, but some of it will be subject to our access for all offer, so that anybody who needs and wants to play sport they don't get hindered by cost barriers so that it will be. It is already a beautiful community asset, everybody's enjoying, it will be even better and it will be managed in a socially aware way. Yeah, I for I could not justify the risk of committing the Council to this. There are risks because I don't know what the ongoing maintenance costs are. They're going to be. I I can't comment on that, but
there was a great risk, there is a a risk around the sports facilities, we haven't yet got the planning permission, this Council could have spent an awful lot of time and money apply for planning permission, I don't know whether we would have got it, I did not think that was a risk that I could commit this Council to so if somebody else is taking that risk so we are going to get a beautiful facility for free for our residents.
thank you, Councillor Gasser.
Mr as good as you are also want to come in on the paper, or should I just opener to to members?
OK, that's fine, I can open it to Members to ask any questions, Councillor books.
thank you Chair, I don't think anyone's going dispute the intentions of.
the administration in in wanting it to be a wonderful park at all.
and I understand what you're await somewhat in terms of the risks that you wanted to avoid or mitigate against. There are risks, though, like Councillor Graham said in not taken the decision in terms of factors that are completely outside the Board Centro, outside your control, so I just wondered if you had anything to say on on those risks in terms of the sit decisions taken by the government or by City Hall when they're reviewing planning applications about building on metropolitan open land because the return the risks are the risks words all one way by the there are. There are risks in terms of making the decision in the affirmative which you just chose not to do, but also in not doing it.
I'm going to have to ask the Planning, goes about that, I don't know what the impact of the buildings decision would be, so Mr colder can advise on that.
there would you like to come in and introduce herself as well.
thank you Chair.
Hamnett cauldron, the Head of Development Management at Wandsworth, in terms of the application that Councillor Graham and other Councillors received notification of today, that's not within the demise of the park that's on another part of the land, the former Diamonds estate which is the the south-west corner, so it doesn't impact on the park itself. In fact, if
that gets permission, they will actually increase the size of the pot. Any further applications on any part of the Metropolitan Open Land will, of course, be subject to a planning application which would come through the Planning applications Committee at Wandsworth and the the GLA, the understanding that I have is that the Metropolitan Open Land will be dealt with separately as the than green belt and the relaxation
that the the government are talking about on green spaces, because the Metropolitan Open Land is so important within as it is a lung for for for Wandsworth and London as a whole, so that each application will be taken on its merits when it comes in, but it's not for a decision at this stage and indeed the legislation and changes haven't gone through parliament.
thank you, Mr go, that are there any other questions from members?
as a lot Latin than last month.
so with that in mind that again this paper, this petition response is not for decision, it is just to note it, so do Members note the petition no response because year sorry, can I have a comfort break sort?
yeah, that's fine, it's built yeah, and we're it's been an hour and a half, so if other Members
if other Members are happy, we could help take a brief 5 minute comfort break.
so we'll come back at 10.00 task.
thank you everyone.

4 Revenue Budget Monitoring: Quarter 1 of 2024/25 (Paper No. 24-225)

the brief comfort break is over and I will be going onto our next item on the agenda, so that is agenda item number 4, which is the revenue budget monitoring quarter one paper,
and I invite Miss Mr Mullen to provider introduction on the paper for open into questions. Thank you Chair good evening Committee, my name is Alex Mullen, I am the Head of Finance and performance within the Environment and Community Services department, so this report sets out the revenue budget forecast for the current financial year as at Quarter 1 so that's 2024 25
within all of the services, within the remit of this Committee there is an overspend forecast, just over 400,000 pounds against a net budget of 48 near enough million pounds equivalent to just under 1% of the overall budget, and it's a relatively early in the year as I said it's a quarter 1 so there will be some volatility expected.
the forecast by division is set out in paragraph 2 on page 14 and in more detail within Appendix on page 17,
the drivers of the current forecast set out briefly as part of the body of the report and as well the mitigation actions where we are able to address coastal service pressures and these are set out to bring the budgets as much as possible back into alignment.
the largest single driver of this overspend as the expected value of the concession proposed by enable, which was discussed earlier on in this meeting.
in particular, the economic conditions throughout the term of the contract to date have been rather unfavorable and that represents the base concession of.
versus the the budget that we have and very happy to take any questions about any specific elements of the report.
thank you, Mr Mullen, so this is a a paper for information, it's an hour, opening the floor to the councillors to ask any questions, Councillor books, thank you Chair, and thank you for that, I just had a quick question on paragraph 8 on page 15 about the street cleaning and the increase in of in cost of 305,000 pounds.
goo goo elaborate on why that is it's that this might not be for you in particular, but other officers can take it, but is this because the regular programme has suddenly started performing worse than its requiring extra ad-hoc street-cleaning services and if so, how have you any idea why that's happening?
thank you, Councillor, say the the, it's probably worth explaining that the street cleansing contract has a rather complex contract, it has a base core element to it, and then there are multiple, other variable or additional services, as part of that, some of the variable elements are driven by whether, for instance, you have a leafing season and you can have a very good leafing season cleansing or bad leafing season for cleansing and therefore we have some variability in that every year. The element that the variable element that we're talking about in in the in the papers largely associated with
additional cleanses or kind of rapid responses to remove remove
things on the street, we don't want them on the street, could be a dead fox or something along the along those lines, the part of the reason it has always been, it's been a rather consistent cost pressure. Since the contract was established, there was some uncertainties about the extent of demand for the for the service which starts, as I said, vary. The inflationary pressure for the contract for the last two years has been particularly high in the way that the in inflation index would be calculated. The contracts we've had Emily elements, growth in that costs, but there is a significant amount of work that is ongoing across the team and with
partners and contractor to manage this part of the service to make sure that we can better profile and formalise elements of the cleanses into an ongoing monitoring programme.
thank you, Mr Morgan and Councillor Cook caught question, thank you, could I just wanna be follow up on that and owned, by the way that you have, the Fox said I I don't know if you are referring at an army focused as you move every every day but I can put I I notified any squash Fox just out here a few days ago and who's gone within the hour so congratulations whoever moves.
deceased foxes can I ask in the in this sorry paragraph 8 again,
mega skips today, where do they sit in budgetary terms of a in been here, how they budgeted for, I'm just curious.
I say the the cost of management of of mega skip sits within Highways, operations and Streetscene, and so it's part of the it's grouped together as part of inspection and enforcement.
thank you.
are there any other questions from this morning?
no okay, so again, sorry, Councillor Geoff, easy-going question, sorry just to I didn't very quick one, so we've got the the the waste disposal.
income. I suppose paragraph 9 I just wondering, do any of the officers have any figures for the
that the food waste collection usage across the borough.
Mr that?
we can I mean.
I don't have it to hand, I can very readily ask Sasha Epstein or direct for ways to provide that two in five.
Sandra nerve now it is to hand but not to hand Ryan, I've certainly.
thank you, Mr Chadwick, are there any more questions Councillor White yeah yeah task, Chris quick question about the
the fact that we've had to add money to the the contracts, I mean the
for instance, the the additional money for the rapid cleansing team.
that?
I mean, it strikes me as something that should have been part of the contract anyway, I mean what why why we pay an extra.
because there's gonna because there's more rubbish on the street, obviously, but I mean why.
what widen that covered by via by the contract initially, Mr. Monnett say there's the specification of the contact, I wasn't involved in its in its in its establishment that the the specification is such that you can either have a, you could have an all encompassing contact that would that wouldn't have elements broken out into volumes or you can have this contact which has core cleansing service and then multiple other areas, elements which are variable in nature. I'd imagine the argument would be that if you can derive down the prevalence of
cleanses, then that saves both you and the contractor one contract money, so it's advantageous from that perspective.
are there any other questions to Mr Warner nor any of the other officers on this paper?
Joe Mr Chapman, can I just add demeanour, or your points well-made, I think, Councillor, I think we would approach the new contract next time around in a different way that accepts your point, really, that you're rapid response is a core contract element.
yeah, it does.
thank you very much and if any final questions to officers.
OK, so this paper is full information, so it's that noted by the Committee noted OK, thank you.
okay had Ivana next two papers, I just wanted to say a note that, as you will have, as Members will have gotten their agendas, there are sections of the paper that include information that's sensitive to the tendering process, so it's important that these I these things such as finances or the names of any of the bidders, are not mentioned.
as as part of an outgoing tender process, o officers were to expand this further as well and we had the option to also vote to turn off the PA pubic web stream and emptied the gallery, if we you wish to discuss some of the private details, so if you do wish to get to that point then we can do that first of all start on the
substantive details that are part of the White paper, so this first paper,

5 Contract for the Provision of the Grounds Maintenance Services for Wandsworth - Contract Award (Paper No. 24-226)

item number 5 is the contract for the provision of grounds maintenance services for Wandsworth paved number 24 dash 2 2 6 I believe Mr Allister wants to make an instruction and this could introduce yourself and the paper.
good evening Councillors, my name is David Alastair, I'm the Assistant Director for leisure and it's nice to be here tonight, so the report in front of you this evening seeks approval for the award of a new grounds maintenance contract within it. You'll see within 2 A B and C, it's also to agree leases and various private premises as part of that contract and also to award additional component of that tendering process, which is additional recycling and parks and open spaces.
the contract is due for commencement on the 24th of February next year and it is for a period of six years plus an option to extend for a further six years beyond that.
this this award widens the scope compared to the existing contract, and just it does referenced in the paper, but it just to clarify it, includes that's not includes play, an inspection and maintenance which is additional, it does cover London, living Wage are real living wage which is the same figure in this case.
it does cover that, whereas the previous contract didn't cover that and then, as I say, the there's the additional over the recycling and parks.
to give context those this was a single procurement exercise, but it's across three lots, so one of those lots was the grounds maintenance contract for the London Borough of Richmond, the second one is in front of you tonight, and then there's the third block, which is for other ones worth housing contract as well part of the process of going out as a single procurement exercise was to to look at.
if efficiencies at synergies across those contracts and that's partly covered when we get to the the the issue and on the good paper.
some differences from the existing contract, and the first is that this is unlikely to put specification which I'm sure you know what if you don't know, you can ask me and I will try and explain that, but essentially we would expect to see from that have a resultant increase in quality of the maintenance of our parks and open spaces within it within the you'll see within the evaluation there's social value is included in that and there's a commitment
within within this to to work more closely with France, will have heard a lot about working with friends tonight and working with trying to understand been representing themselves, etc and a lot more engagement, which I think is a really positive aspect of this is award he also had earlier through the the first item I by this is a self monitoring contract.
which I can explain further, if you you need me to, and there's a number of benefits just throughout the actual specification, the contract
I think this is an opportunity to to recognise and celebrate that.
there is a saving in real terms, we hope to see an improved quality and I am confident of that, and then of course we have the wider scope
just to touch on what the Chair said about the the good papers, and let me try and explain that a little bit more, because those three lots within the process, there's three different governance so there's three different Committees essentially that have to award and of course they're not all happening concurrently but that's right now so one has already happened.
in the Richmond borough, and then there's there's two more to come,
as we go through, I would just endorse what the the Chair said around.
referring to better, one and better to, obviously you can see the names in the Gulf paper, but if we can refer to better one and better to that were very helpful, obviously no financial figures.
I just more than happy to take any questions.
thank you for that introduction, Mr Allister, do we have any questions Councillor Cook?
thank you are going to do questions first is.
and it doesn't.
don't need to name name annual.
should we be surprised, there are only two bidders does, or should that be a concern, should there have been sometimes you see five or six, or whatever date does it tell us something that the market isn't as deep as well because we might?
and I it's a good question, I I think, the reality as there's only a relatively small number of people out there in the market that they can compete on this the size.
of course you know it's essentially and and also of this quality of contact. So no, I don't necessarily ticket as a bad thing. We did have a lot of sort of early expressions of interest as in that they were asking for the information, but then, as soon as that information was released, you know a number it just didn't go through to the next stage, I to try and reassure I would say that the quality of both beds, I think was was really high quality. The worried differences. Obviously there are always are, and the difference in price and difference in approach, but both both beds were actually very high quality
I had my second.
show yesterday, so thank you to you, but I was just going to reflect they, don't they don't necessarily know that there are loads of other bidders, but because they do all talk to each other than they say they probably know there are only two bits.
second is on the self monitoring, which slightly relates to our discussions earlier, I mean, we all know human nature, being what it is self monitoring can be a flawed, so how do we know that's going to that's gonna work, who's actually going to hold them to account check what they're doing Sue so on that one I think?
maybe it's useful to explain the process behind that and start by saying that that South monitoring processes in the specification that that they attended against, so we have set out our stall very early saying this is what our expectation is and when you respond to that you know this is the minimum, what else would you add to to do that, so the the the process will essentially be that we will expect on a monthly basis.
a number of reports from I nearly said, the name from from the successful contractor.
so we know exactly when we get those every month, we know exactly what saying that we have set that standard at this stage and what then happens and they tell us when their went round and evaluated themselves their own performance on all their KPIs et cetera we will then use officers to then who monitor who will be monitoring that contract just to quieten spot-check so there could be 50 sites that you know we want there are 50 comma 50 things that we want to be looked at and the day that that comes in.
an officer will go out with nearly said it again with better Tues staff and actually look at what that says if they grid something as an A or officer or Longo is at an A is it to be and then they will be, you know marked accordingly, so it it's again to try and offer a little bit of reassurance. This is an established system in has been enrichment for a number of years since 2012. This process
and to be perfectly honest, it's been refined as we went, but I regains, I'd say that if there is a lot of I have a lot of confidence in the system and that it does work.
thank you, Mr asset, Mr EDU Osman Mekonnen.
there was given a very good response, but I just wanted to elaborate on that a little bit further that that is the primary reason why we were requested to officers, to support, to make sure that we have that robust monitoring, but also their friends and the MAC groups who will be incredibly important about making sure that contractors do what they do and it's very typical and I'm sure that actually probably already happens that,
you've trained volunteers to be able to understand the quality aspects of the contracts as well and unable will also play their role as part of the you know, the people that are looking after our parks more genuinely to be able to spot things and I'd be very interested to understand how.
the winning bidder will work with the community to make sure they've tackling issues right at a local level at the moment it goes through three stages, so if I complained to the Council we go to enable unable to go to the the contractor the contract to respond to enable unable to respond to as we go to the contractor so is trying to reduce that and get rid resolution at a local level which is good practice and less frustrating for the restaurant.
thank you, Councillor White.
yeah, I did say, got the point being made about social value unnameable were, where contracts value social value at 10%, rather than say 20% which other councils do, doesn't this run the risk, as we saw in the
in the legacy contracts that we discussed in the last paper, the cheapness is rated too highly, and maybe it should be better balanced by increasing the social value if we don't take it in house, where we have more flexibility and be more in control.
I think it's a, it's a good observation, there is obviously within the the corporate regulations around procurement, that's where the the split starts about cost versus quality, and then the the the 10% on the social value elements of that that's essentially said by corporate standards I think in this particular contract that,
it's a very operational contact if that makes sense, so the social value doesn't attract so much from in that this case, but it's not to say wouldn't another's.
and what I would also add is that the
by asking contractors who are essentially grounds maintenance contractors historically, by asking them to start and explore that social value, and that's happened over a number of years across London and the rest of the UK, it's making them up their game and making them more responsible and more reactive to two Local to local needs, so I think I think,
you know
with every contracted ideally like to be able to shift some of those percentages, and I think the social value bill could be higher, but at the minute were appointed by the the Corporate rags on that.
thank you, Mr Allister.
are there any other questions officers,
OK so.
so I would I, we can now ask this papers for decision for the Executive or if, as if everyone's happy with the recommendations, and they also feel no need to go into the gold paper, we can recommend it for approval here, so yeah, I agreed.

6 Litter Enforcement Contract Award (Paper No. 24-227)

so item number Item number 6, again is another tender and contract, and we have Mr Hanks to introduce this, this is the list enforcement contract award paper number 24 dash 2 2 7.
Councillor Cook, Joe, though thank you I'd just to say I I would like to make reference to one of the
yes.
executive sorry, you wished whether it before you go paper, you could make that okay, in that case, won't need to go to a private session, so the introduction, with a view to including the introduction for the officers and then move into an OK, yeah, that's fine, OK if Councillor Fitch that yeah, I am happy that we are fine, OK, it's yeah, so mistakes can you introduce the paper publicly and then we will need to turn off the webcast and clear the gallery. So we were able to have a bit of a discussion about the detailed nature of the contract. Thank you, yeah, good evening on Michael Haneke's on the inspection enforcement manager here to present the paper for the literary enforcement contract award
and I'm in a similar position to my fellow colleague Mr Allister, though I can't go into the general specifics in the public forum.
I'll just give you some some background before we move into that for the benefit of the public, back on the 4th of October 2 2018, her, the community services and open spaces, overview and scrutiny committee.
approved the tendering of a new concession contract for the provision of littering and fly tipping enforcement services in borough, this was to compliment our in-house special enforcement officers.
the
period is is up to two years, with an option to extend for a period of a further four years the current four year extension ends in February 25 and this pipe, a far procurement process, has been undertaken by Council officers to look through all of the tenders for the for organisations.
with the evaluation waiting of meets most economically advantageous tender, we've awaiting of 70% price 20% quality and Timpson social value, which is low, sorting and said tonight is a great bar up procurement board.
the proposal is that we'd like to award this contract or contract to tender a day. It's clear from these organisations tend to proposal the they understand. The issues that are local for ease encounter trying to combat fly tipping. I'm unable to name never before is that they have worked with due to prog the procurement process, but I have worked with some avalanche of hurries. The latest therefore, figures show the in 22 23 wonder if he's the second highest for a in the country for issue in fly tipping fines, and we believe that this organisation will be able to assist us in building on that success where they need to be appointed and ascended my introduction. Thank you, Mr Hanks. I'd ask the gallery to clear, but I think it's or declared itself and the previous items
well, that's led Councillors who are able to stay if they so wish.

6 Litter Enforcement Contract Award (Paper No. 24-227)

welcome back everyone to the Environment Committee meeting we were back now form a.
from entering a private discussion about the nature of this and tender result, so unless there are any other questions, this is the litter enforcement contract award paper number 24 dash 2 2 7.
so with that in mind, is the paper agreed agreed, thank you.
so with that we go to Item number 8, which is the petition response to the Swaffield Road pocket park and playground facilities paper 24 dash 2 2 9.

8 Petition Response: Swaffield Road Pocket Park and Playground Facilities (Paper No. 24-229)

so we have we have Mishima who would wish to do in introduction on the report.
thank you Chair.
Cheshire
I'm here to present the paper on.
the response to the the dish petition from residents of Swaffield Road.
this was presented by Councillor Paul at the Full Council meeting a earlier in the year in March,
that the petition requested the creation of a pocket park, we've playground facilities to be located on Council, owned, disused land.
between Swaffield Road and Whitehead, Close backing onto the Brocklebank estate.
there is a correction in the paper that I'd like to note in the paper it states that the total area is 540 square metres, it's actually 500 and 9.
because the Eastern part of the Land has been admitted and that came to 32 square metres, so the corrected figure, as I've said, is 510 509 square metres, the land is held in the General Fund and not the which are a Housing Revenue account in response to the petition feasibility study was carried out and three designs were developed and as referenced in paragraph 7,
these designs formed part of the consultation exercise which went live on the 8th July and ended on the 19th of August.
I'm asking residents, which are the three designs, they preferred with further questions on materials and features to allow for the preferred option to be further modified to include these requests, there was also an on-site drop in session on Sunday Sunday, the 21 of July, from 12 to three.
and
as a result of that, and obviously the consultation we will be sharing, the results of the consultation on our portal and Councillors will be given that information and the current preferred design, with the amendments to further engage with local residents.
so it's it's a good news story, we've got an area that I will have a pocket park, as requested from the petition, and further developed with a further consultation.
I am happy to take any questions.
I thank you, Ms Shaver and Councillor gas are also wants to weigh in on this year. Just said to back up what Michelle has said, actually this is a really exciting new project. You know, we've identified this language wasn't being used, it can be turned into pocket park, we started engaging with residents, there's more to do, we need to listen to the residents, are Councillors will be out and about listening there'll be opportunities during the planning process. There'll be lots of engagement, opportunities to, we want to get this right, we don't want to do what most residents wanted to see. Their and people have expressed concerns to me about the risks of anti-social behaviour, so we will absolutely be looking at how we prevent that happening in the evenings and at night. So yeah really really excited that this project is happening
thank you, Councillor gas, and with that we can open the floor to Councillors, so we have Councillor Cook.
thank you no, so it is welcome some good idea, I know I know that's what can I just be clear, indeed the sort of the sequencing of the consultation which has just described, because I I recall seeing the the leaflet work, the went round several weeks ago and it did look to me very much my interpretation of it and that is the person who gave it to me was very much that this is happening rather than its consultation.
yeah, I suppose Ireland, the things a good idea, but I was a little bit confused by the way it was pitched have I misunderstood something.
no, it's consultation, as we do with most of our consultations, we give three options of designs, and we've done at all in this consultation, we asked more questions on the features on the materials so that there would be more opportunities to actually rather than insane. I won't be I won't see you know you can actually say yeah, like bees, my preference. However, I'd like this additional information, this additional material to be used, so we've actually in a way improved on that consultation, it by asking further questions
thank you, my shower, Councillor Geoffrey.
thank you Chair, and yes, it's so great to see the Council moving or at pace with this, if I can be excuse the on this.
meeting.
to use it for to raise my own and Councillor Brooks own playground issues in Wandsworth park.
we have made really good progress, there was consultation over the summer maturity, we've had some really helpful dialogue, I am just very conscious that it it is now years that we've been waiting for.
shovels in the ground. I know not all of those issues but within the power of the Council to control, but I think just as ward councillors and I know sort of increasingly residents, would just love to know what the specific sort of construction timeframe is going to be just so that we can have something to work from, but if we could perhaps pick that up offline and doesn't that'd be remodelled that will be included in the the consultation results, you know, we've all our consultations, we put it on our portal, giving background and given an idea and indicative timeline on when the project should be completed, and for this one it's gonna be early 2026
Councillor books yeah, question, thank you very much, just a quick opportunity to clear something up.
bonds began on sequencing, was it the case that the principle of a pocket park and playground was established on Swayfield Road before the petition was launched?
necessarily have a previous our information known, it came from that petition yeah, so that that actually yet that came from the residents requesting it?
thank you, Mr Councillor White yeah, that's sharing Register the Committee, I think this is a really good thing and
and if you could briefly tell us what you know, benefits are from a pocket park, but also other examples.
in in the borough where we've put in pocket parks the work ceaselessly and may be overcome, some of the problems that we were told that there is gonna be anti-social behaviour and things like that no, of course, well this is.
part of the administration's ambition to increase parks and open spaces and obviously is as a council, but obviously this is residents one, so this is our in effect our first pocket park.
under this regime and you know, will have health and
wellbeing improvements will have more community spirit and just generally.
you know more play equipment and help for all our residents, so you know it's a really good scheme and, sorry, I think what was effort for suffers the question.
I think on.
fears on anti-social behaviour, that's obviously something that's come out of the consultation, so we are look, you know there will be feedback on that, we have our parks and.
we have our parks and our parks, police, who will be able to inspect, who will be able to do patrols, we have a PCSO P.
public space protection order in the borough, so with those powers that they can use for anti-social behaviour.
thank you, Minister, and also there's also the the planning process as well, because there is a lot of references to design out crime that will be considered by PAC Councillor was born, he had a question.
no, some magic question just to reinforce the positive feel about this pocket park in Swaffield road, we have one in the ward that I represent in Tooting Broadway, it took, I'm afraid, Councillor Jeffreys many years to get there, but we do have one it preceded this administration just about it was driven by.
2 of the Local Councillors Councillor McDonald and the late Councillor Andy Gibbons in order to achieve it, it is a huge success, it is always being used and, and the people who live locally are very, very pleased with it
thank you, Councillor has been that I I second that as well, and so all of us as Councillors have walked around the area and found a disused area that we'd love to see, tend to be a for green space and has grabbed with and a mediocre that we've got to realise it for this area, Councillor books, thank you Chair just to check that the the funding of this pocket park won't impact and either charges for leaseholders on the on the new developments to no great thank you.
Mr Beattie, did you want to run the government I've just going to add the building on the success of this is a officers within the climate team, are exploring opportunities across the whole of the borough, and a pocket park might be just returning a very Smith sliver of land back to a greening and improving drainage and and things like that so it might not necessarily be applied one and maybe play or,
people to sit, it might be just bringing spaces back to life, bringing habitat development, improving biodiversity, proven drainage, public amenity, and, in the look and feel of of our place, and and that work is being commissioned and is being delivered by the climate team and I'm sure it's something that will probably come back to this Committee at some stage for approval of a programme based on those recommendations are very exciting times ahead.
thank you, Mr Eady.
are there any more questions to officers on this paper?
no okay, so there's no pavement for decision has just asking the Committee to note, so is this noted noted?
great, so we have one final item left for discussion, so this one is a bit more of an open discussion for Members, it is about potential topics for task and finish groups, I just wanted to quickly introduce this.
so we have a definition, I've been given

9 Discussion Item: Potential Topics for Task and Finish Groups

task and finish groups are a challenge for a group and members to get together and look at an issue which is of current or future interest to the BOA and their residents, it usually invoked been together, remit, organising one one, two or three evidence sessions meeting to agree the learnings and then putting together a short report one or two pages with the main reflections conclusions and recommendations these could then be discussed at a future ASC, meeting and forwarded to the Executive.
the spec, the task and finish groups are currently the concepts of them.
it is a new concept that has been trialled by the Council and is one that we're looking to do a multiple committees at the moment is currently in general purpose is Committee which Councillor Osborne is also chair of, so I was wondering, if you'd also like to give a couple of words of it before we then open the discussion.
yeah, this it's important to say this is a very new departure and we are breaking new ground, and I think the honest truth is we don't 100% know where this is going to lead, it's a recommendation of our democracy review and the consultancy that came in and made various suggestions on and how how we move forward.
the idea is, first of all, to embark upon a type of extra scrutiny, improved scrutiny.
which is common in other councils and worked very well in other councils.
and the intention is also to try and.
move away from the style of debate and discussion that we have in overview and scrutiny committees, ultimately, every decision will come to a overview and scrutiny committee, but the idea of a task and finish group is to try and have a detailed discussion across the parties, with all Councillors feeling that they are making a contribution to the discussion and to ideas about the way forward trying to avoid that.
sense in which ordinary backbench councillors might feel that well I'm on a committee, but there I am in the middle of some debate that.
somewhat constrained by the timetable and the papers that are presented in the way in which they are presented, and so on, to free councillors up from that, and I think to.
try and take out some of what forgive me for this, perhaps somewhat.
loaded expression, but to take out of the discussion, some of the perhaps grandstanding, which all councillors attempted to indulge in in a public overview and scrutiny committee are the three that are suggested here are just suggestions, but they're important suggestions.
we already have provision in
the Planning arrangements for some environmental goals in a small way, and this would be a way of expanding on that and coming up with suggestions and ideas from councillors across the board, we touched on the idea of green corridors or wildlife corridors in in a debate earlier on and that's an important area that some councils are involved in.
and if we take the one about
it usually is fairly urgent about the borrows museum collection,
at the moment and try to look at a way of carrying forward what the Council does with that collection without perhaps having old hands, will know that this was a controversial matter over the years, and perhaps it would be good if we had a task and finish group because that might avoid,
some of the controversy on this matter, casting a shadow over a sensible discussion on the matter of 0 what we might do with the Barons, museum collection, the other interesting thing about that, one, the third one on the list, is that they're there is also the there is already a plan to try and use the Council's children's centres to House mini museums.
for a bit of Show and Tell and so on for children, and we already have a mini museum in the
library across the road, which I is well supported and well visited in ones with town, and so they are possible uses and there could be other facilities possible uses for the museum collection and we could have a task and finish group to look at that and dare I say it which bits of the collection we might not want to necessarily hang on to.
so thank you, Councillor Osborne, and thank you for so expertly disguised in which one of those you recommend.
so again I I want to stress, but.
that this is not about discussing the merits of a task and finish group, and those discussions will be happening in general purpose. This is more if we are to go in this direction and we do end up establishing a Task and finish Group, which which ones would you be interested in engaging with which ones would you consider being a member with, and then we can take all of this on and we can use our path? This is making process and seen which, when we start with
so yeah vexed has given a accident, his instruction on the Bowes Museum collection, does anyone else have any thoughts on and either the any of the points, or do they also want to potentially introduce the topic of their own that we could consider?
I think Councillor White raises hand first.
I will let him go first, I was just saying that the Councillor Les Williams probably left something else, but I think it may not, so the first one, I think, the with emerging government policy over the planning as well, I think, is going to be really really important and I think,
within the Borough, wonder if this is already a very, very live issue and I think it must be.
are our concerns are very different to you know, rural constituencies, for instance, so I think that's going to be really really important, because the opportunity to destroying you know some of our environment that quite strong so yeah, I mean that the the the planning system is used basically to to improve that, so I'd be very interested in yeah, thank you, and as a fellow PAC member as or share that it is a really it's a common interest of mine as well, and it would be good to see if there are more ways that we can enhance. Our environmental goes by working with planning
so Councillor respond, you wanted to come back on a previous point, yes, just a very quick point, some of them might involve more than people from a range of overview and scrutiny committees, so, for example, if you were looking at something that was using children's centres and libraries, it might have people from children's committee and from this Committee conceivably other Committees as well.
thank you, Councillor Osman, Councillor Cook, did you have upon yeah, thank you, so just to be clear that the merits of this will be discussed with GP, so in a sense a bit premature yeah, it's it's premature but we wanted to have that if if it then gets approved a GP where we then already have like a vast direction of travel rather than waiting for the GP decision and then,
so, starting from scratch at the next Committee, at least this gives us an idea that when it gets approved, then we can start moving quicker on finding idea and again the set-up.
sorry and, and this would be an important sounding board, we we need, we are trying to break away from the idea that things are fixed in a particular overview and scrutiny committee so yeah, OK, you're right to ask you know, who's gonna be driving this which committee would be driving this and that would be general purposes.
but but we are very keen that other overview and scrutiny committees are contributing to to the process, which is why it's on the agenda here, and I'd also add that the input of a upon veto it's Councillor husband has mentioned is that we want this to be cross-party and so and try and take out some of the
I agree that you do sometimes again these committees, so which is why I wanted to open it open as well to the other side as well, and one for you guys to see if you had and I particular areas of interest or and also you don't have to give it if you can't think of one right now that's also fine you can get in touch with us with an e-mail if you think of a topic that you think would be a really good fit for this just wanted to get the ball rolling as early as possible. So if if there's nothing if you have nothing to add now that's fine and the there was gonna be open were if you want to get in touch with me or Councillor gas about it,
okay, well, I think I think for now.
that's probably all going to get just wanted to introduce this and get the ball rolling, everyone can go home, and so I'll have a think about what they would they'd like to see and yeah, he always had the opportunity to the shape that we're trying to make this as cross-party as possible, so please get in touch with your recommendations.
and with that I think that is the conclusion of business for tonight's committee, so thank you everyone for your time, 10 past tense, not too bad, so thank you, everyone and everyone on the public fortune, thank you and goodnight.
thank you.