Finance Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Wednesday 17 July 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Finance Overview and Scrutiny Committee
Wednesday, 17th July 2024 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

the welcome to this meeting my name is Councillor Richard and I am the Chair of the Finance Committee and members of the Committee, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourselves briefly, starting on my left with a Deputy Chair, Riga's switch, your microphone on below Councillor Sean lawless doing Broadway Ward, thank you good evening Councillor Jeremy and bash West Bank new ward.
evening, Clare Fraser, South Alan.
evening Councillor Steve Waugh was Chaucerian Queensland ward.
good evening allied richest Jones, a Conservative councillor for Northcote ward, and leader of the opposition could evening Councillor Lindsay hedges of Balham Ward, thank you.
Councillor Matt corner of 9 on board,
Peter Graham opposite from speaker an Councillor for Wandsworth Common, thank you, thank you and I'm just to say I haven't yet heard anything from Councillor Lee who
o
sorry, Councillor Akinola, I have apologies from Councillor Lee okay, right thank you very much.
okay, everybody, the other thing is we have Councillor Akinola and cancer Councillor Akinola, at the end and cancer Ireland in attendance as Cabinet members and we're expecting Councillor Henderson and Councillor gas' and the Leader of the Council later in the meeting we also have a number of officers present who will introduce themselves when they addressed the Committee.
any officers participating virtually, please keep your cameras of and your microphones muted until we have come to your item and introduce yourself at that time.
okay, I'm going to first of all take the minutes of the previous meeting and then I'm going to are the we've got two sets of minutes for approval from the 27th of February and from the 4th of April.
are these agreed great, thank you very much, then, other any declarations of interest either have either of interest of Stockholm, are there any declarations of either pecuniary, other non registrable or registrable interests?
from any one in the Committee brilliant, thank you.
I'm going to say that either had any a request from Councillor Peter Graham to take an urgent item to this committee, I've taken advice and I have considered this myself as well, and my view is that, although the request is important and needs a full response and I will stress that I definitely believe that,
I don't think this is the place for it here, because Councillor Graham and I will talk to the Chair of General purposes Committee about making sure this item is on the agenda for a future General purposes. Committee Councillor Graham, I have said I'm not taking this agenda item just so your clear, so may I don't wish to speak about the agenda item. I wish to speak about the basis for the decision not to include a I'm very briefly, which is simply that what we have not set them, so the public will not be aware is at the monitoring officer has advised that this is not something that this committee, because it was within the remit of general purposes. Now the law states that overview and scrutiny functions cannot be restricted in that way by another committee that every every aspect of the council's functions must be open to scrutiny by an overview and scrutiny committee. This is the relevant Committee. Now I appreciate you have been put in a very difficult position by the monitoring officer suggesting a view of the law that frankly I regardless unlawful. It is not your place to determine the law, which is why I appreciate your in a very difficult position, but we have.
extreme concerns about this. When we have a situation where the official declaration hang on parliamentary allowances, Graham was now rotten, excuse me got wrong and we are not allowed to scrutinise Greg just now, wherever you are excuse me, Councillor Graham asked you not what the thing is right, I'm just going to say to you very clearly, Councillor Graham, you will not have worked together for a long time longer than quite a few Members of this Committee, and I have, and you should know that I am perfectly capable, I will take advice, but I could also come to my own view, which is my view about whether this item should have been considered for this committee. I hope you will respect that. I am not saying that is why I am saying that it is important and I am saying it needs a proper and full response. I do not think this is the time or place to do it
and that is my answer on that item, given that the given that the Executive has moved to restrict position councillors to refer matters to the special meetings without their approval.
Will we have an undertaking from the Executive that this will come to a Committee and it will come to a Committee soon and which Committee fat cats, Graham, what I said was, I will talk to the Chair of the General purposes Committee, and I will also take advice and discuss with him as well is what I think is the most appropriate time.
that we need to come to a conclusion when this is discussed,
I know that's not the answer that you works hoping for, but is that an answer that?
I respect your position as the Chair, as I say, I think you've been put in a very difficult position and I don't I don't attribute any responsibility, so you personally for this okay, right thank you very thank you count.
councillors, thank you, Councillor Graham, and I will try and get back to you,
and your colleagues reasonably quickly. Thank you OK now, what I'm going to say as well as this particular committee is unusual for anybody who is watching, because we have items that would normally have gone to other overview and scrutiny committees which were cancelled in order to satisfy the requirements of the period of heightened political sensitivity that led up to the general election
to allay any concerns over the nature of some of these items, all those included on this agenda for within the remit of the Finance, overview and scrutiny Members should note that these items of business were not able to wait until the next committee round, and nor was it appropriate. Have the decisions made by other means, and I'm also going to says we may have to rearrange the order of the meeting depending on the availability of officers and of the Leader, because we've got a concurrent Housing Committee going on at the same time brilliant and I'd also remind you, we have a lot of items to get through on the agenda, so please keep
your comments and questions, clear and precise. Thank you very much. Everybody, okay, so the first item on the agenda is about the London Borough of culture, which I just would say, I think we're really excited that we are going to be next year's London Borough of culture, Councillor Akinola, would you like to say a few words before we go to questions? Thank you, Councillor Richard, yes, we are all pleased about London Borough of culture. It's been unfortunate that since it was announced, we've had two elections
so on whether some of the Councillors around the table may not feel brief, but that can't be helped really, and I think Mr Evans will say a few words about that in a bit, but the paper essentially is that we need to get going and key it's very keen to the GLA that our processes are swift so that we can make good movement and so the paper is really asking for to delegate responsibility of the budget envelope to the senior responsible.
officer and myself to deliver the bid
and a year of art and culture, and I feel that the committee members should have a lot of faith in in this process as they have already and continue to deliver very successful Wandsworth adults, fringe events, just like the one that just went.
thank you right, thank you, Councillor Akinola, OK yeah, Councillor hedges, I'll take you first because I know you also now have a brief on that voluntary and community. I understand thank you very much Chair and really appreciate that I do. Everyone has to leave their hands up for one minute so I can work out who has right okay, do you mind if I asked two questions, sorry, I launched a quick that we can all relate, so the first one is about governance, and that's paragraph 10. We talk about in terms of governance in the dedicated London Borough of cultural Partnership Board
the paragraph mentions key Council reps residents, et cetera, so the first question is how will you source and who will you decide what is the process in deciding who goes on the board and then the second one is to do with paragraph 18 we talk about extracting 130,000 pounds from the Wandsworth grant fund so I'm will also with my grants brief opposition spokesperson hat on
it would, and also it comes under paragraph 19 as well, but just wanted to understand what the proposals mean, I does this mean and mean that you'll take the 130,000 pounds from the ones worth grant fund and we want allocate anything more in terms of those rounds that were due to be awarded towards the end of the year.
thank you.
Mr Evans, I think sorry just to say that last point, so when when I mentioned the 130,000 pounds being taken out the Wandsworth grant fund, I meant to say so that that some if it is taken out and not used for grants that will be scrutinised at the Grants Committee does this mean that the 130,000 pounds won't be scrutinised in the usual way OK, thank you, Councillor hedges this reference,
thank you, Chair and Jonathan system chief executive, and I'm here on behalf of ample peachy Director Children's Services, who is the senior responsible Officer for taking forward the exciting London Borough of culture, 2025 in Windsor, so just picking up the governance point now obviously strong collaborative governance and partnership governance is absolutely key for delivering on this programme and we've been clear about that all along and that governance partnership group has been established at the moment and it will comprise a key obviously chaired by and a puppyish you have just mentioned.
Key senior officers, such as finance, public health, environment, community services, reflecting a real cross Council effort, will say to deliver on all Bock, also our core delivery PA partners as well, clearly, some of the big wow moments will be delivered by some of our key partners such as Battersea Arts Centre and,
Royal College of Arts, and then we want to make sure the community voices is heard in there, so we're looking at making sure we got community representatives such as Battersea Youth Alliance, a youth council representative, and we're looking at all of those different options at the moment, so that is underway. Beneba we are learning from the other London boroughs who have run borrows a culture in a pass Rooney and making sure we take all of their learning about governance and and engagement and partnership. Building on all of that taken, a GLA advice and and doing something we know will work for Wandsworth.
so just picking up the second point on the once grand Fund, the as you'll know, Councillor hedges or or a chunk of the ones of grant fund, is actually sort of ring fenced for arts programmes and the and the
with the ones have asked fringe anyway, so really this is just about saying we will take that over a couple of a period spanning before and after enjoying all Bock put that into a pot which can then feed into the wider and decision-making around all bought to make sure that money goes to groups sort of aligned and meeting the priorities of of all box. So is estimated sure we can deliver swiftly and without too much bureaucracy in effect to the groups who will be relying on that money in and be supportive partners to our elbow journey that money won't therefore be allocated via the grants ASC will be dedicated to to Anna in the the partnership board to do that, but I am sure, reports back to this committee, you will give a key good indication of who has been in receipt of that money for future scrutiny.
well, it better be quick, sorry, yeah, no thank you for that, Mr Evans just wanted to check, because also there are a lot, quite a few number of parts now that we awarded the Grants Committee.
and I just wanted to make sure that there wouldn't be any overlap, how would we know the will we get a full breakdown and then we can compare to all the other grants that we've awarded just to make sure that there's not anything
that there is not any doubling up, or there's not anything unreasonable and unfair about the process in terms of who's getting what?
chair for my lots of for question, to reassure Councillor just, we have a, as Ashness an excellent officer bid a review and assessment team and Grant assessment team in the Council, and they are feeding actively into that process as well, so there is good collaboration across that so the same people are doing.
a good chunk of that work so we can make sure there is no duplication and a wry inputs are sought as we as we do that, so I can provide that reassurance to Councillor hedges OK, thank you very much, OK, Councillor on bash.

3 London Borough of Culture (Paper No. 24-176)

yeah, I wanted to say that becoming Barrow culture with Olivia, huge benefits to the borough and our residents, and the reports outlines and underlines the high ambition for the arts and culture over the year, but also the fact that the borrower is going to benefit from our more connectedness with communities, voluntary sector and businesses, I'm very pleased about the recommendations of the executive director missed potpourri Chi delivering the ambitious programme in a very tight timescale through a more nimble process through the steering group. The 5.7 million is an ambitious total budgets and I'm pleased to see in the appendix the strong monitoring, both before the Borough of culture during the year of the Borough of culture and the year after so that we learn as we go out, and actually I'm hoping for a quest yes.
so there are two questions I wanted to ask one, because Councillor hedge has got to what are the prospects of achieving the 1.7 9 million fundraising, and what were the implications be if we didn't quite reach that target?
this ambitious target and the seconds we're talking about having 50,500 volunteers mentioned in para 15, could you outline what the possible roles are, it's a lot and any of the implications of having 1,500 volunteers, thank you.
thank you, Chair, thank you come through a bus route for the question.
and thank you for your support on on on the paper we
in preparing our beautiful the Bureau culture and we were very conscious of making sure what was put into that bid was was realistic, and we we certainly use all of our connections with other boroughs to make sure that what we are putting in there was was was realistic, it doesn't mean say is not challenging and we are going to make sure we saw part of the money we have got to spend some money to invest into proper.
crowdsourcing capacity and expertise to make sure we can do that and make sure we generate that that income in now, of course you know, I'm I'm confident we will meet that target, but if we don't in clearly will have to look at the the programme accordingly, but at the moment we are confident that we'll be added meet or or suddenly get a good way towards at that that target and anything members can do to help us would be much appreciated and yeah volunteers so
volunteers definitely at the heart of our
bid and, of course, we want to make sure we reach all corners of the borough. I can't I could probably come back to the Committee with a a fuller detail of what we would expect the volunteers we engaged with, but I think it'll be at all different levels of both delivery and artistic input and and all sorts, so I think it is at the whole spectrum and of course the Council agreeing all staff will be added. Give two days volunteering
and is it is a really important part of that, and we also looking at make sure we've got the volunteer, an infrastructure in place with the voluntary sector, to to make sure we can deliver on on that, so it's really important at both in terms of Elbit delivery and our legacy going forward.
I get a little bit more about the volunteering infrastructure because it's really important that volunteers kits coming through the next paper, actually Councillor on bash.
is it CA Mr efforts, certainly the VCFS paper talks about volunteering as part of an infrastructure, but we're also looking at making sure we've got the capacity in his earliest stages now, so we're working on that remember the full detail of working on it OK but it thank you very much Councillor corner.
thank you, Chairman, I'm really excited to see what the London Borough of culture year brings to the Barroso welcome some of the detail, I'll add, the details set out in this paper paragraphs 21 to 23 set out the fund rate funding for all book and in paragraph 23 we can see that there remains after the top slicing of Mikill a fundraising requirement of 1.790 million now if we turn to Annex B, it does set out some of the sources of funding, but it isn't clear about.
and the extent to which those sources can contribute to the 1.790 million and also whether they are, and indeed many of them are already part of the initial budget, so external to that fundraising requirement.
woking officers doing to reassure.
the best Committee that that's amounts of money can be fundraised in time.
for its for its requirements, and if what are the implications, councillor, should there be a phase or eight burglaries, and I just thought I thought we'd just handled that question.
I think we did on sorry if you missed it very quickly, I think you said that you would go if I can reflect, I think what counts, sorry, excuse me, Mr Evans, and back to elevate you, I think what Mr Evans said was that if we couldn't managed to raise the money we might have to review the programme was that which obviously we clearly how we won't have to do.
yeah that correct, wasn't it, Mr Evans,
yeah, I get on to on to on whose so.
I think it's working from me now, yeah I mean clearly we have set out a programme to deliver using that budget and we are confident that we've got realistic income generation targets in in their
and we will be seeking external expertise to make sure we can generate our money.
but you know inevitably if if, if we fall short of that and then we clearly we're gonna have to look at the the programme, but that isn't what we announced at the moment, yeah yeah, OK, thank you very much at that no, I'm going to take people Councillor Richard Jones, I notes pain but I would like to get Councillor Fraser and I'm very conscious of the timings as well Councillor Fraser next plays.
Councillor Richard Jones,
now I keep my mike on, I have power, I can keep my mike on.
and I think we're probably going to come up with Councillor M version on the screen out and sorry Councillor Richard Jones, for that's.
thank you, Mr Evans said that answers you can always tell when a project is going well and it's gone acronym, so it's just attractive on his elbow.
just to understand a bit more in paragraph 11, it says about the Programme director, I understand, is as that person been brought on board yet, or is that to come, thank you.
Chair on, yes, we've got the key Programme Director and Programme Manager posts imposed naturally.
bring with us existing and huge experience and knowledge of the sector in Wandsworth, so very pleased about that, can I?
just add on that, I suspect that the Committee would love to meet that person at some point if that's appropriate.
yeah not necessary now, but at some stage she would be if she wasn't away on leave at the moment, we are subsequently okay, brilliant, thank you very much, Councillor euro. Thank you just one point in one question. As a point of reassurance, I suppose for Councillor hedges, myself and some other people on the grants committee, could I ask that may be a formal link be established with Councillor ambush around the expenditure of the money from the Grants Fund just said, there was some feedback mechanisms. It doesn't have to be a bureaucratic process, but just let you have some linkage in with that. I think they give somebody some reassurance to the members of the Committee. I know it might not be happy. One or two people not be happy with that, but I think there would be a good idea. The other aspect is in
paragraph 16 you mention you took by the delivery partner.
excuse me, Councillor world, it struck me when Kerr, and could you also give us the page numbers, sorry power, page 8, paragraph 16, thank you talks about a delivery partner, delivering to support some the delivering elements. Could you just elaborate a bit more about that and how that might actually be chosen?
so I think this paragraph reflects the VAT picking up on Councillor and that she's point that volunteers are a key part of this one currently, once it doesn't have the does now to volunteer and infrastructure which is part of our journey on the VCFS in such patronage later on the agenda so so that that infrastructure will will come into place during 2025, but we recognise is probably going to be a bit of a gap and probably get it needs to be enhanced as well, so we are looking at options about there are organisations out there. Sort of third sector organisations are
do volunteering, so the infrastructure, so we, we were looking at that, so certainly no decisions have been taken on that, we're in early early stages on that, see how that might might work, so it really jars filling that gap, we know we've we've got yeah
and just.
also respond to the involvement of the grants.
committee and the these process sorry, the Chair, these processes haven't been set in stone, yeah, there's many different ways that we're thinking about actually delivering the grants in different people to involve in them, so we are happy to have those conversations with Jeremy Councillor and dash story as and when okay thank you very much.
so you, you'll start with sorry, I Councillor Richard Jones, I know you said it was related to the other thing that don't worried, I've sort of Mr and Mrs will take you back to the the question of the 1 point over 9 million funding requirement but I think you've said in answer to a question from Councillor corner if the Council fell short on any of those funding targets the Council will then go and revisit the programme.
would you also consider, though, if?
she fell short slightly or even significantly, but some of the things in the programme you thought delivered some real benefits, even long term benefits.
rather than revisiting the programme, would you perhaps seek more money either from any sale or the General Fund?
I, I think that's a very difficult thing for me to answer at the moment, because we're not in that in that place, something would have to review it to the at the time, it's a very dynamic process as we go along and I don't think we ruling out any options on that and I think that's that's the honest answer okay.
right I am very conscious of time, so every bit that we spend cause corner is at an extra thing or can I move, can I sum up the move to a vote, it's really just to follow on from that discussion about the fundraising and I don't see any benchmarking with other Councils who have delivered London Borough of culture in fact that was in the paper.
if the fundraising requirement.
similar to what other borrowers have done or have other barriers that have been London boroughs of culture had a more so more of their budget confirms caught out in the cycle I did think it was in there.
I think it's in paragraph 12, I've been all know which were so I think it's in there.
no, that that refers to some Surrey are being yeah.
is that Councillor Coley, you need to sorry for Councillor Evans, to Algeria again for Mr Evans to are, so you'll need to turn your microphone off yeah, and I think there was some detail in the last paper, but I still refer back to my previous answer, really, which is we've we've been very clear and very careful to benchmark with other other boroughs and have on some of the more successful than others, and we think we have learned a lesson from that, and certainly the GLA are very, very supportive and are offering advice and support in terms of fundraising to us, and you know they, they awarded as outbid knowing what we'd put in and what had gone before so the that sort of reality check, I think, could happen to that point as well. OK thanks very you and just to clarify the benchmarking in this in the next paper. Isn't related to well, I'm sure I gather, I'm sorry, run
OK right. Thank you very much, Councillors now I'm just going to do a brief summary, so we've talked about the governance of the project and how that's going to be managed. We've talked about dealing with the funding from the Grant Fund that's being applied to the project and or questions around the role of the volunteers and how they will be recruited, which hopefully we hear more about later and several questions about the sponsorship income and how
if that doesn't isn't reached what the alternatives will be OK so.
given that a summary of the discussion Councillors, can I ask you, if we can deal with agree the recommendations in paragraph 3, which are delegating all the decisions to the relevant Executive Director in a and noting the overall funding envelope in be, is that agreed greed, thank you very much everyone, okay, right we move to.

4 Voluntary and Community Sector Infrastructure (Paper No. 24-177)

item four, which is the voluntary and community sector infrastructure paper again.
sorry counts.
could you?
we were obviously trying a different arrangement, and usually she's could you put yes, very quick introduction, please about this paper, thank you.
thank you, Councillor Richard, well this paper, basically, is the culmination of our promise to invest in the voluntary sector that was made in 2022, and we've undertaken quite a lot of in-depth consultation with members of the voluntary sector, and this paper sets out our commitment to the VCFS by way of commissioning a new service to support them and later on we will have developed a VCFS strategy which sets out our long-term relationship with this sector and there,
relationship with us, so this basically is asking for the investment that we need benchmark, benchmarked with services offered in other councils, and investment in the sector has been asking for for a very long time, OK, thank you very much right.
let me have Councillor Warrell first and then Councillor hedges.
thank you Chair, first of all, this is an exciting paper and I'm glad to see so much work coming to fruition at last and our commitment to the voluntary sector.
I will want to refer to two parts of the STP, one part of this paper though, and that's our relationship with the ICB, so on page 9, alter on Page 18 paragraph 9 and on Page 24 paragraph 40 there are references to commitments by the ICBs to continuation of funding HughesBuy Councillor world for the benefit of anyone listening could you just give the ICBs, it's the integrated care integrated, pocketable sorry one of our health partners one of our help you thank you,
my in my daytime jobs, I have experience of working with ICBs and other parts of London and know that, even though there have made paper commitments, there are moves to actually cut some the funding and actually back out some of the funding arrangements, and also the primary focus is mainly around health commitments more than anything else.
so I'm just wondering, in the light of what's happening with ice with the integrated care boards, the confusion around commissioning with ICBs at the moment and transfer power.
what is what do you feel is a commitment moving past 2025 that we can expect from the ICBs and what, and how will we encourage them to remain engaged with such a programme moving forward?
yes, Chair, thank you, Mr Evans.
thank you, Chair, thank Councillor Walshaw, I we've certainly got the we work very closely with them because they've been a a partner in a the current sort of infrastructure, that's all services we've we've got and we have got the commitment for them for in terms of ongoing funding, I mean, so I think we owe it, that's been to their own Board or whatever their governance is, and I am absolutely certain about that, and I mean clearly their their bit of the money is focus on on the health side of things, but as investing more money into, it allows us to deliver that wider infrastructure support, which I think is what you know, we is absolutely what the sector itself has has demonstrated is is needed so and we've worked very closely and very
work very well with them, so the ratio is very good, I'm sort of confident for the future on that, but if that changes will have to take stock of that, at that point that I'm certainly hopeful for the length of that commissioning exercise certainly,
OK yeah, thank you, Councillor hedges.
thank you Chair, and just wanted to agree with my fellow Councillor Councillor world about the the update on the progress it's it's really great news that all of this work has gone into the voluntary sector, and also I was particularly pleased with the point about highlighting the need for more practical support for smaller organisations because that too has come up in the Grants Committee before and for for for the smaller company at smaller organisations that unable to do the proper due diligence my question really is round.
the point that you are asking us to approve the prove point, c 2, point C on page 16 to approve the award of contract using the ESO 83 a procedure, could you please provide a bit more information around that and exactly what what is?
we are expected to sign off on here, please
chair for Omagh, Councillor hedges, thank you for the question.
so as part of our procurement procedures and pure procurement regulations, for many, many years now, it has.
routine contract awards have been Woody via yes', 83.
which is both for urgency and routine matters, and it means we don't have to wait for a committee, sometimes a contract, the ward ticket who stars in April, some like that doesn't fall well with our Committee and Executive cycles, so that has been a procedure we've used for at least 10 years. I think on on their the the key thing for me is that the Member's input Scrutiny impulses at the earliest possible stages that, and this is what this report here in front of Members is set out, what our commissioning intentions are, what we're proposing to commission and the budget for it, and member scrutiny as you've given today, is really important. Input to that at the point of contract is awarded the procurement, the legal, so the procurement process has happened and we are in a stage of a sort of a binary choice of go, no-go going to that now, procurement process, so it is perfectly normal for that to happen via a routine matter anyway. In fact, in most councils that have been done by our officer delegation anyway,
thank you, and I could add Councillor hedges is I've had discussed this quite a lot with.
Paul DeLacy, who you know through audit and one of his views is of course is once the tender is out there, I think this is correct, isn't it, what's the tenders out, of course, Councillor at that point the decision has to be made.
almost within that special Tenderbox, I think that's the correct thing to say.
Councillor on bash
thank you very much, for the paper is a really good follow on to the paper we had last autumn from rocket Science, which showed that we had not invested as much in the voluntary sector as other authorities in London there are put the paper talks about the benefits and there's also the synergy that this service might have for the voluntary sector in working with the Council through the change program I'd particularly like officers to talk a bit more about the benefits from say that para 28 page 21 of the infrastructure service what will the benefits be to the voluntary sector and the community as outlined in that in that in that table can you just give us a bit more information on that?
thank you.
Mr Evans.
thank you Chair, thank you, Councillor ambush.
I mean what what we've set out as sort of outcomes and benefits, though, is very much what we've worked with the sector and co produced in terms of what they need and what they want from the investment and of course this is about both how the Council can support them, but also how sector can better partnership work across our own sector, business and other agencies, including the council. So I think that's absolutely critical and I think one of the you know clearly on the objective is you know, as paragraph 19 says it, a stronger, more connected and resilient sector can engage with other organisations and wider partners and ourselves.
in terms of
looking for those synergies looking where we can add value together, you know in a full partnership, which is not what happens to the best of our abilities now I think it is probably fair to say, and of course also finds that financial resilience
is absolutely key and good good governance as well, so there's a whole range of outcomes and we hope to deliver and benefits to the sector, and I think the paper does a pretty good job of trying to sort of outline those as well, but just to be clear we are also still engaging with the market potential market as well to identify and Abbey CCS.
you know to refine that as well, so make sure our specification and really is a co produced specification.
thank you very much, Councillor Graham, yes, so.
looking at the recommendation in 1 A
were the Council to take that extension option for a further two years, with an estimated annual value of 330,000 pounds, would that be a key decision?
is that something that we might need to come back on on more needs doing someone with this can answers we on our own, I can see what?
I know is the answer, I think I think perhaps the it'd be fair to elaborate on where you why you think you're going right there and then that will help the reason I'm going there is that this Council is very deliberately chosen not to set a threshold for a Key decision saying it should instead be as low as possible and indeed we have had things come through recently aware we've had decisions classified as key decisions and yeah rubbing roughly around 100,000 pounds.
that could be raised, it would be reasonable to raise it, but, as we have deliberately said that everything should be a key decision with it could be with considered to be within the scope. It is reasonable that decisions of that scale currently classified in that way. The problem is, in relation to Mr Evans, answer about the UT routine you Seveso 83 8, because if something is a key decision, then it is not permitted to be used in that routine way and the Chair of the Committee are asked to state that it is urgent and cannot reasonably be deferred, and the problem, therefore, is that, given that the awarded a contract is a far greater value than the extension of the contract and therefore by definition, given what else has been taken to be, a key decision would be a key decision. It is not permitted to use or rely on the routine function cannot share, would have to sign it off, and therefore we are in a position of a planned use of an urgent procedure which is unconstitutional. I Councillor Graham, I hear what you say
but
given that we have constitutional review going on at the moment, areas which are likely to come up will be officer delegation.
I am not sure that it's something that we can answer, however, whether this approval will be legitimate to be used under the SRO 83 a as routine or whether it will have to be characterised as a key decision, because I think it is a very reasonable question for this committee right now and in relation to the review we have heard that the opposition will have no formal ability to be involved in that except as executive dictates which means that we may have no participation at all right I've got,
Mr Evans wanted to say something and, if so, the monitoring, Mr Choudhry, although probably refer to Mr Choudhrie, but my view is that the the key decisions, one your take in or effectively executives taken on the back of his decision this paper tonight and therefore a nowadays properly on on notice on the for plan etc. Etc. So the therefore the SOAD 3 toward contract is not the key decision is just a routine decision, I'm sure Mr Choudhrie or give a view on that.
that's entirely correct, I have nothing further to add.
I think at the very least is left ambiguous and it is house sorry, excuse me, Councillors.
I would be no sorry, I think it would be helpful to have some idea from officers of what they regard as the financial threshold for a Key decision. I would say, cancer Graham, that's probably something that may be needed to be considered elsewhere. I don't think it's quite the question unless you're going to advise me differently, so the answer to Councillor Graham his initial question as to whether the approval in paragraph today is a key decision that is right in terms of whether or not we define a financial threshold we do not, and there is will will likely be ongoing, worked to find that in future as the new as we undertake the democracy review
yeah grateful for that answer, but I would point out again that we may have no ability to participate in that discussion.
I hear, but OK right, can I have?
Councillor Warrell 0 was.
yeah, was it Councillor rural again, I think it was yes, you'll find your okay and Councillor Richard Jones you had, and hopefully this is gonna be about the paper of the content of the paper neuroscience about the constitution certainly,
now just can I put Councillor Graham point just differently, which is the so recommendation to see.
asked us to approve the award of the contract using the so 83 a procedure.
as Councillor Graham has explained, and also has, the incentive of scrutiny and governance explained that's a procedure for urgent business. So you, you've had loads of these come before you Chair, and it says it asks you to verify that the decision is urgent and cannot reasonably be deferred. That wouldn't be the case with this. This is just a question to the administration about the timeline they want to adopt for this decision. So really, isn't this just paragraphs, he is basically what what it's really asking is just for officer delegation, so it's probably a question for the monitoring officer that it would just be. It would be less than abuse of Essex 83 to not rely on ESSA 83 and instead just replace it with a delegation to the senior responsible officer that she can carry out this contract in accordance with the usual procurement rules
so Councillor Richard Jones, and that's not how it's drafted, although I can see the attraction of that approach, what I would say is that the use of ESA 83 8 procedures is not limited to urgent matters. It is also for routine matters. That is the terminology in yes' 83 8 procedure, what you are being asked to do is to agree the overall estimated value, which is a key decision and then decisions that fall beneath that, others that will be taken under the SRO 83 a procedure. Okay, I could I just ask if just a factual follow up, because I've never seen an estimated 3 a form that didn't ask the Chairman of the Committee to verify that the matter was urgent and couldn't be reasonably deferred. Are you saying there's another performer out there somewhere that doesn't have that wording, because because if there isn't on the performer, then this is about an urgent decision
sorry, Councillor Richards, as there are, it's the same form, it's whether or not the box is ticked that the decision is urgent, that the consent from the Chair is sought, otherwise it's the routine decisions last point and I'm not going to push it, but I am actually going to push an amendment to this which is to strike out the words using the SOAD through a procedure and replace it with using delegated authority to the s r o because I don't want to stop this happening and I won't Councillor Ikano, let's be able to proceed with this in accordance with a time table that she's chosen in paragraph 37. I just think we have to grasp this and just realised this is a bit of an abuse, the SRO 83 procedure and we can cure it without Councillor Akinola or Mr Evans being in any way limited.
I think I think it needs, they delegate the award, but yes, I I mean OK, lateral festival, okay, Councillors, thank you. First question is before we move to looking at the amendment, do we have any further questions on the paper and I I would just caution, Councillors to say a lot of the discussion about them. The mechanisms in running the paper obviously detract from us talking about paper, so everyone else know no further questions. OK right, Councillor Richard Jones, do you have a propose a a second of your amendment? I guess you're proposing it, and could you
Councillor Richards and seconded by Councillor hedges, and please could you read it out clearly for the benefit of the Committee Clarke, because we did not have this in advance, yeah, so it's.
approve the so so yeah herb delegate the award of the contract to the Asaro, so that replaces recommendations, OK right.
Mr Choudhrie, do you have any thoughts on that one, for the benefit of the Committee, is entirely appropriate amendment at it works, just as well as the existing.
recommendation okay, Councillor Akinola and Council and
and, Mr Evans, what are your thoughts on this before in?
given the your the people you sorry.
I suspect, have gone interests because our delegations to me, by God this
were what I would save for the benefit of Councillor says that using the ESF 83, a procedure does mean that.
the decision is published, whereas if it's
taken under officer delegation need not necessarily been published, so that's the benefit of of that process. Okay soundalike we'd like it published okay, right, can we move to a vote on the amendment, please all those in favour of the amendment, please raise their hands, thank you. Although against the amendment raise their hands, thank sorry why am I doing him a vote this time,
OK, so the amendment falls and now we're looking at the substantive recommendations.
are we taking them in pots altogether?
take them altogether, OK, so we've been asked to approve the tendering for voluntary sector capacity building, contract approval, general fund variation and prove he awarded the contract using ESSA 83, so all those in favour please raise their hands.
OK, that's 5 in favour, although against and all those abstaining, thank you very much.
OK right, so that is carried and we've agreed the infrastructure Plater that we're also running slightly later than I expected and yeah now.
Councillor Gasser has
come, would you lie, has joined us for her paper, which is the Leisure Services I'm going to suggest we take the Leisure Strategy, Soray, is that OK?

7 Wandsworth Borough Council Leisure Strategy (Paper No. 24-180)

are we agreed that we could not deal with the Leisure Strategy, because Councillor gas' has come to speak to us does that grade, yeah brilliant, so we're now going to take I to what is now Item 7, which is the Wandsworth Borough Council Leisure Strategy paper,
24 80 and it is.
called Wandsworth moves together and it starts on page 71 and Councillor gas' for the benefit is we're only after very, very short introduction to please keep a.
no sorry, excuse me ma, my Committee cuts just reminded me of something.
yeah or rate of the okay.
sorry, what her there's been a slight glitch in the way the papers have been put together, so just so we're clear that item be we are being asked to approve the commitments contained within Appendix 1, but actually that's pages 91 to 99 and Appendix 1, A which is pages 101 to 105, so that's what we're looking at, whether there is any questions and that will be how that is reported to.
in in the minutes yeah.
OK, Councillor Gasser, OK, I'm gonna come.
we could even have to see you here grieving. Thank you for having me and it's great to be here and I'm delighted to introduce this strategy and I'll just be brief and then Co 3D will be brief and then you work it out for questions, so just I'm this has been the culmination of months and months and months of work and actually years of thinking, because when we were putting together our manifesto and thinking about what we'd like to do differently once worth, and you know it was the time after COVID and we are also aware of health inequalities and it was like we need to make sure that we give all of our residents every opportunity to be out there, enjoying themselves getting fit and healthy, and it's about physical wellbeing and mental wellbeing, and so this strategy has taken its time to talk to and listen to residents and try and find out what the barriers are for some people and try and address some of those barriers
and I'll ask Mr really just to say a little bit more, then please ask questions, but I'm delighted that we are doing this and I hope it's gonna get many, many more once with people active OK, thank you very much, Mr greedy and, as you said, two or three key points for us and then I'll take questions. Thank you Chair, and thank you, Councillor gossip, well, first of all I just wanted to say thank you to all the people that have helped to make this happen. So this is a real Borough partnership strategy. This isn't just the councils, but it's motive services across the Council, but it's multi partners, from health, schools, education, the voluntary and community sector, but also residents there have been involved in it as well.
I'm really pleased that it's so ambitious for a power that is already active, but, as we know, the issues around lack of people doing physical activity, growing waiting lists, people that are inactive, health inequalities. Widening is even more important that we have a strategy that mobilises the whole community in a whole partnership to get people more active more often and underpinning all that is access for all. Where you, I think you're going to say of paper about that later, where the Council was making a real, strong commitment to reduce barriers for people that find it difficult to engage in physical activity, so I'm going to hold it there and happy to answer any questions Kid
OK, Councillor corner due likes kick-off.
yes, thank you Chair, and thank you to Councillor gas' and officers for putting this strategy together.
I do have a couple of questions about some of the priorities that are outlined under the active environments work stream of this, and the two that I'm particularly to number please, Councillor sorry, on page numbers are 104 and 105.
so underactive environments, we can see that we are exploring delivery of a new community facility in Nine Elms target completion date, 2026. Could I just get some clarity about what that actually is, is it related to the school site, or is it a different site and similar Lee the aim to get a new kind of 3G artificial pitch in the in the borough that is targeted for completion next year? I understand that it's also meant to be in the nine homes area. Is that correct and is that still on track to to be delivered? The bullet point at the end of the list on page 72 doesn't quite make it make the location
but so I appreciate clarity on those matters, OK, thank you, Councillor corner, Mr Rady, thank thank you for those questions and thank you for your thanks to the community, so an older people involved, so the dynamics facility is in fact linked to the school so,
we are really excited about the opportunity,
and the 3G site is not yet defined because we are exploring a number of sites with football foundation.
we don't want, and we are hopeful that we will get more than one in in the next few years in response to our Playing Pitch Strategy, which shows a deficit of those types of facilities, so we're not being really specific at this stage but we are having very productive conversations with the football foundation or look into funds. 3G pitches in our borough
thank you.
Councillor work, thank you once again exciting paper, especially for someone who actually does engage in physical activity and the Wandsworth, so there might be something in this for me as well.
I think I'm walking the dog counts, okay.
I just wanted to take you to page 77 paragraph 15, where you mentioned the community sports and physical activity Network I was just wondering, could you provide more detail on how this would actually work, especially as you say that this will hold the the Council to account and involve over a number various different groupings? I don't see how the mechanism actually works so in and has in terms of the way it's outlined hearing and what that accountability at she looks like.
so I suppose.
I would say in terms of accountability that don't have any power, but it's a mobilisation of a group of key strategic leaders, you hope, within a a borough that will hold not just the Council but the partnership to account, to deliver the strategy but also to support clubs, voluntary sector, schools, education, everyone to be more active so they are an established model all over the country where there are groups of volunteers.
from key parts of the system, so you have someone from health to have someone from Education, you happy from the Council, we've got three councillors that were elected as at the H G, them to be members of of the cease bank has previously it was active Wandsworth which would probably recognise now we will probably move it to.
a different name to align with our strategy. So it's really trying to use those influences of key strategic leads across the sector. You know to advocate for support its external funding, also challenge the Council and other partners to be better to go further, to deliver on what we've separate going to deliver in terms of so if I have any power no, but I have a voice and if we've got people that are passionate and want to keep people active and reduce health inequalities and I'm really keen to work with them.
thank you, Councillor on bash.
thank you very much, other Surrey, Councillor worlds that follow up with what you know, there's different one, it's the differences in New hand, as they say.
what I do, thank you very much for the strategy was really focuses a lot on young people, and that's really important with all their lives ahead of them, but turning it around the other way.
how much is in the strategy in terms of activities for older people and people with disabilities and people with health, health problems at the older end of life?
absolutely my, it does feature out of those, and there is it is not this in the action plan, is how it appears littered through the strategy document, older people supporting their independence are keeping them active is really critical, and there some really really great work already gonna Pike being company doing some fantastic work.
working with adults and children with disabilities or special education needs will be fundamental as well, so we've you will see in their various funding that we've gone for unsecured now for the George sharing score, increase in their sporting facilities and programmes there so
you know, the strategy will touch all of those things and we are also procuring a new leisure contractor, which you might be aware, there's a key action in there, we would be asking those bidders to come forward with ideas and best practice on how they engage, that's really important target groups to get people more active because I will have the experience of the whole country of all the different things that they do and we want to be best in class more inclusive, more accessible.
OK yeah.
I think I had Councillor no, you're alright,
Councillor, cooler again, thank you, and this relates to the measures in KPIs on page 102 onwards, I think it's really positive to see we got some kind of measurable targets here, which is excellent.
what did strike me is that I don't think any of the KPIs actually talk about to the point just raised about health inequalities and talk about
wanting to see an improvement in in measures, we have all the data from the Council's data, one website which shows us so many different through so many different lenses, the health inequalities and various other inequalities that exist in the Borough.
should this will the Strategy be judged to be a successful, not based on changes to the health inequalities, as observed through that data OK, thank you.
I'm going to have chosen miseries, I'm going to touch that question a little bit, because they the really hard to prove they take a long time to be able to demonstrate those impacts, but it's something that the government is being lobbied very strongly around from lots of groups like UK active, to include physical activity as the response to support the long waiting lists. You know the health inequalities that people not been working long term sickness from work. There's some really good studies that are going on. I'm being trying to enlist to get some pilots within ones were firmly progressing with those and example is in Manchester, where they've seen a significant investment by the ICP to pre HAP work for cancer patients, and that's resulted in significantly quicker recoveries, less appointments as part of their recovery and better quality of life much more quickly. So there is evidence there, but these think that is a three year study with lots of support, so absolutely with the wanting to tackle those health inequalities and there will be instances where we can see measurable results, but for a blanket improvement on the quality that we really difficult to do over a short period of time.
thank you for that and I really I really do appreciate that it can be quite hard to understand how a strategy like this is impacting our wider measures, but do you think the Council could explore doing this a bit further, so, for example, under the access for All goes on page 102,
we want to get women and girls involved in sport which I think everyone around this table and then this Council and and in the wider community would support, but the KPI is talk about establishing working groups having a catalogue of programmes, surely we can collect our own data to to make sure that we are actually increasing the number of women and girls in the borough who are involved in sport I understand you probably can't commit to this immediately on the spot but it would be nice to see something on that in an update to this strategy at a later date.
and presumably Mr radio, and also perhaps that is something you'd like to also comment on, perhaps Councillor Gasser, because it's.
yeah, I'm I'm happy to answer that one, so the women and goes group is we want to really understand what the challenges are at a local Wandsworth level from a rural lived experience of women and girls, we are looking to for 2025 to be a year where we really go hard at understanding and delivering for women and girls and change the narrative you look in a strategy. Women are much less at if the men in Wandsworth. That's not an acceptable position, so we want to use the poll of the European football championships for women, the Rugby World Cup, which is just across the border in Twickenham, so we're speaking to the Overview. How can we get role models from the are a few to you know, encourage women. It goes, how can we work with the youthful trust and schools to really support girls to be excited about PE and physical activity? So we just want to get that local knowledge and get people invested in it, so we can really drive it forward in 2025 and absolutely move the participation rates forward, but also people not just participating, painful human-like. I was being volunteers being employed in the culture and Sport and physical activity sector as well. So please be assured, I'm really ambitious in in the area and are happy to come back to Environment Committee and and let them know how we're getting on OK, thank you, Councillor world
it's just more of a comment really.
something that I feel is missing in here, I mean this a lot in here, don't get me wrong and it's very ambitious, and I think there's some really fantastic objectives.
what I would be useful to see, maybe, is a mug's picking up on Councillor ambush, said about working with elderly and the disabled, and also those who actually have poor health self maintenance, so we took a lot bike expert Patient programmes et cetera in the in within the NHS and other areas is a more explicit link to maybe the social prescribing process within the borough.
and also a more explicitly into our public health strategy if we brought those together in a in a in a triangular way, I think this would strengthen this for this programme or law and include those all those particular groups who are on the margin of in of sport and exercise or who feel for whatever reason cut out from the process no matter how much you encourage them sometimes it takes into a bit more hand holding to guide somebody in.
I'm happy to undertake that and look again, memories elements to social prescribing in their in strengthening health pathways, there's talks about bodies and things like that which I've worked within the past, but absolutely I can commit to have another look Councillor Gasser to see if we can strengthen those areas they are really important.
you know, and we want to make sure that we move the dial for the people that are less likely to participate in physical activity and walking a dog is physical activity, so and if you get that through in every day, and you know that is helping you.
Councillor SACRE wants to add something you forgive me, permission is that I haven't had a chance to Thomas 3D that it's, but I've just been over the AFC Wimbledon foundation. I've been talking about exactly these things and my day job of work at St George's and I've been talking to them about how this could all come together, so St George's obviously really keen to address health inequalities. All those groups AFC Wimbledon is, we are so look, how do we work together with the whole system and every which way we can reach those people so that physiotherapists, occupational therapists, all of those people could be referring to Aston AFC Wimbledon? So it is absolutely on our mind and we can work it in brilliant Councillor Fraser
okay, gnocchi, one and thank you for this evening, it's really great to see policies have missed it in here we don't just look at quite a full agenda tonight, but just from in the past I've sponsored grants that have gone through for local sports clubs stay thinking of spun for Spencer links, whose particularly reach out to to some of the communities across wonder if who are less likely to and they did some research so less likely to play sports hockey specifically, I don't know how much you've looked at kind of linking up with the Grants
as well. Sorry fits in no of missed it, but just as we are at finance now I thought it'd be a good point to just just raise it. That is quite a nice link for some other grants that sometimes come to us as Councillors to ask for endorsement
so it's not in their specifically about grants, but that might be the role of the C-Span to help support that so enabled provide grants already as part of their arms length, Sports Development and physical activity service, but I think it would be very sensible to review what all the potential grants that the Council control but also other sector other opportunities within the
within the funding environment, because you know we want to get that, that helps break down barriers, doesn't it helps them invest in the club infrastructure that if we didn't have club infrastructure in any local authority most the physical activity and sport would not be done so they self serve themselves, so we need to be there to support them an advocate for them.
thank you very much, Councillors, is that OK, yeah I'm just going to comment that the leading goalscorer for AFC Wimbledon was a woman, Ashley Hincks, I think she'd got over 100 goals in two seasons, just something or maybe she could come and talk to our girls.
I am declaring an interest OK we are being asked
and I was quite key pleased to see that the being the women have qualified for the Euros again.
we are being asked to approve the new leisure strategy to approve the commitments approval changes to access for all, which is around extending the scheme to get more people in.
on lower incomes in noticed, not strategic needs assessment support the work of the capital investment which we see any way at finance, and the pilot for the autumn, which has been discussed at Housing at the moment, though pay are agreed, all agreed, thank you very much Councillors and thank you Mr A D and Councillor gas of coming to us because we're here right.
let's go back to where we were.

5 Schools Breakfast Programme (Paper No. 24-178)

which is the school breakfasts, and it's Mr Hipple and again this is another paper for the benefit benefit of anyone who is watching, this is something that normally would be disgusted children's, but is being discussed here because the nature of the time, Mr Hipkins, you give us a couple of key points we need to think about with this paper and then will go to questions.
thank you, yeah variable certain Director of school support services Councillor, probably know that for the first time last year we developed a School Food Strategy which, had you, are bringing together a number of themes that the Councillor scores are working on to make sure we are joined up holistic food Strategy and provision and said four themes of food inclusion, sustainability, food, education and the fourth one food provision contains when there's the new school meals service and pilot of a school breakfast programme which was a manifesto commitments of administration, we had agreement to run a pilot breakfast programme with 20 schools and we partnered with a charity Magic breakfast to are the UK's leading hunger focused school food charity.
they worked with those schools to work out the best model of provision, and they've been doing that for the past year, the outcomes and the impact of that have been have been really positive, we are serving over 3,000 breakfast each morning.
now and the feedback which is in the appendix to the paper. I would really recommend that councillors read that is incredibly positive from our school leaders, from our parents, from our children themselves, and that the fee for feedback on that's been fantastic. So we would like to request that that programme is both continued for the existing schools and extended to others. We have been in discussion with schools who are not in the programme to find out which ones we wanted to take part and up to 20 schools helps to just have indicated that they would dependence on decisions here and Executive, and it's also worth saying this is quite alive
policies and see it if you're aware of The King's speech today indicated that there would be a an education Bill coming forward, children's Bill coming forward in this parliament, Mr hippo, I've just going to say to you I thank you very much for that introduction, but I think you might be anticipating some of the questions that may come up, OK if that's all right
right Councillor Graham, what I've got that there was a very timely of you, because that is indeed anticipating my question, but I think you are the only providers or expanded it, so we do it.
so you want the only person who I happen to know, I think it's been a lot of interested in what happened to The King's speech, but yes, I'll do go as there always is, so this is obviously something that, as the opposition we supported it was also something that was being funded out of the money that's provided by the the last government rather than out of the the money that provided locally.
you, you're quite right that the I've got the Cabinet Office briefing notes on the King's speech and there's a proposed children's wellbeing Bill which would require the free breakfast clubs in every primary school. Now it is a long-standing part of parliamentary convention that legislation did not put forward without financial resolutions being put with it in order to pay for it, and local authorities are not expected ordinarily to meet of requirements of this kind without central government providing the funding. So although
obviously
that will not be done in time for September, and therefore the budget variation of 187,000 pounds for the rest of this financial year seems perfectly reasonable if we are to take the new government at its word, the 320,000 pounds to 25 26 would not be required, so should we be approving it at this stage given that the government should really be paying for the itself.
it'd be hard for me to answer, isn't set, I suppose you know the commitment obviously been in the Parliament, it depends on how house, regionally that comes and the nature of that, and it's also worth Councillors knowing that.
Even though you offer it what we found with our breakfast programme, even is that sometimes it doesn't suit individual school, so there has been a national breakfast programme for a number of years now and only few of our schools have taken advantage of it because of the requirements to either have a higher level of free school meal percentage within schools or to,
because there's a fee to take part in that so that there have been some deterrents to schools taking part in scope them, so I think in response to Councillor, it would be we need to see the detail and look at when and how that could replace our programme or we compliment and integrate
thank you very much, Councillor lawless, thank you, so it's amazing to see councils across they will talk about the new Labour government and what's in their King's speech, that's Joyce's in May live on for many years, so one of the schools in here Heath Mayor had an uptake of just 30 kids and I went through from as a kid I was just wondering I think West Hill Primary School is also the same errors.
Page number place, sorry page 47 48,
in the table I'm just wondering
what can we do to ensure that more children in those schools are are taking up, and do we know any detail around, maybe why those numbers are lower because what I wouldn't want is a child who doesn't get to school early enough or maybe children who are late to miss out.
and then, following on from Councillor grounds, point about the new Labour government, The King's speech, and there is an aim when the Bill comes through for it to reach every child, so is there more that we can do to make sure that every child taken it up just
thank you good question in terms of driving uptake, so one of the benefits of working with Magic breakfast is one their experience in this area, and so they are able to advise schools on on which model that suits them best. Now this is new to score schools. Our schools have been running different models of breakfast clubs for a number of years, so one of the challenges of working this is how do we encourage them to if some I've just gonna, paid breakfast Club, for example, how do we encourage them to run a free model alongside that, and so it's working out what the current provision is with alongside what's best? Now I would love to say to that everybody has all scores have been have. I've wanted to take up the offer, you know eagerly they do, but sometimes there are barriers to doing that and one of the benefits and one of the reasons for running the pilot project is one that we've now got a wealth of knowledge of those 20 schools that we didn't have before, so we've been able, if you see in the appendix are different models that we've been able to to to run in schools, and the different and similar context of, I suppose, were able to now peer our head. Teachers are school business leaders with other schools that might be in a similar position, so where some schools might perceive there to be a barrier or deterrent to their implementation, we've now got more evidence and expertise that we can get scores to share with themselves.
thank you.
Councillor hedges, thank you Chair, and thank you very much for that presentation. I really do think it's a great idea, but having been a School governor, are actually one of the schools on that's listed on here, Smallwood Primary School, where I was actually Chair of Finance there and they had they had a really good initiative, called chefs in schools which I think was grey, but again it was a very similar thing. That's come up here, it's the percentage uptake now, it wasn't the fact that the children were hungry. It was just the fact that the children would rather have breakfast at home or bring in their own food, and this, I'm afraid, is a fact so
my concern at just follows on from Councillor lawless on the on the uptake.
and how much research has gone into these scores in terms of what's the real reason behind the children not eating?
there are some schools that obviously we can drive and uptake can be improved. You'll also see we have some schools with with high numbers. I've got very high percentage uptake in Worthing, for example, there's a really good example, one of our biggest schools, where nearly everyone takes a breakfast, think it's sharing the learning from those schools with with schools that might be less successful. One of the most successful models is a classroom breakfast whereby I start at started. They every child has breakfast together. That seems to be the most successful model that we've we've we've we've come across and
part of the the learning that we've just explained is getting head teachers to come and visit those schools won't where it's wrong, well because where it is Runwell, it's incredibly impressive, and it's a wonderful start to the school day.
and the more we can roll out that than the better update we will have going forward and just say chefs in schools, yes, I absolutely agree, a fantastic model we we yeah, modelled a lot of the new school food specification on okay, Councillor Fraser,
thank you and slightly linked to that actually channel, which is helpful. So just thinking about those schools or and I don't know whether, in in those schools that it is essentially you know across across all year groups or or potential groupings within no schools, just how we're making sure that those children who who need the the breakfast are getting it and and I'm sure that that this is something that can if you've learnt across the the trials that we've had so far because when with things like free school meals, and I know certainly from when I was at school, my friends who are entitled and that there was an element of shame or stigma attached to it, and they just they wouldn't do it because they felt that it was kind of you know that you know that they were different somehow, so is there ways that have you found that this is a kind of addressed, that that balance and kind of taken, that what what could could actually be a stigma away from it
movie Councillor.
so what one of them, through the main things doing is this is you know in school, it's a universal offer and you've always got that discussion about universal versus targeted, but you know the the research that suggests that Universal is the way of of reaching more of those children where we've had universal or where we haven't had universal free school meals, we've seen less Frisco may lead to both eligible children take up that offer. Sorry universalism, also one of the key things that that the
parliamentary breakfast do is train the teachers and how to identify hung what the signs of hunger within children, so all those schools have had training in that and being able to identify, monitor and of course they know their children best, they know their community and their families better so they between the partners and and and the schools we find a way of getting food to those hungry children yes, thank you, Councillor Richard Jones, you had your hand Councillor Call right now to do as well.
thanks Chair, I also want to commend this piece of work, which I think is excellent, one of the things that piqued my interest was some of the barriers the schools would face in, nevertheless providing a breakfast offer despite this being in place, and it struck me that the the diversity of models is great on one hand because, as you've explained different schools know it'll have a different cohort and and no little work for them.
but I did wonder if there might be some instances where a school was choosing a model, not because it thought it was the best model, but because that was the only one is resources would allow for, so, for example, it could be that a school would rather run a breakfast club because that's more targeted and it doesn't eat into the academic day but they don't have the teaching supervision resource to do that at the end up running at classroom breakfast to retreat into the day to be really interested in in your learnings in terms of what other resource constraints schools had enabling this and whether you thought that impacted on them making the best decisions for them.
yeah, Kazakh good question, and I think that's pretty accurate in some instances.
because of the biggest barrier to take up for for those schools that are that did not want to participate is is fear of, is just financial constraint you have to resource it, you've got a resource, some of it will be Europe with, with sort of example, teaching assistants, support staff typically sub support. The the breakfast in the morning either preparing it or staffing at looking after the children and some schools have been unable to rearrange their resources in time to do that, but it had some of the learning from that is looking at those schools that have been able to do it, so some schools have what they call the soft stuff. You know where you know a classroom breakfast is a nice thing to do before the start of the first lesson. Other schools as part of their ethos. I don't have that and do not want to move to that, and so part of our work is working with school leaders to
get heads no typically to to to to to learn from each other or to talk about priorities for the children. So one of our school. If I take a very local school, they move their tears from supporting period. 1 for 10 15 minutes of reading to use that time, supporting the breakfast club because they saw the priority for food and hunger, was more important and to make those sure those children were rate alone rate to read first thing in the morning. So yes, we absolutely learning on that and it's about getting our head teachers to together, to talk about their similar context and and the best way of doing it. Thank you very much, Councillor corner, if we can make that effort thanks, you'll final question yeah, thank you and yes, really welcome this, and it's great to see that the trial has has gone so well and received such positive feedback. I just wanted to ask him at a technical question about
the contents of page 37, what is the actual difference between a traditional breakfast Club and The breakfast Club for all, which are both run by Magic breakfast, so every free at the point of delivery and and they're both available to all children at the schools participating, so just wondered what the difference was there as my first point.
I thought.
thank you yes, or adding in activities like me from a traditional breakfast Club would have not just breakfast but also some activities alongside a, whereas the other one, I think it's just coming along for food.
got a thank you and did we get to see maybe a breakdown in future of how effective each of those are in terms of attendance at, and so on, borrowing by Prescott point now, one of the other things that the council might want to consider, especially in light of potential future funding from the new government for breakfast at primary schools is providing this for secondary school children. When I was a teacher, the school I worked at provided free breakfast to children at secondary school level and it worked really well and, of course the problem with them. Hungry children and children are having enough energy to focus at school is not purely limited to primary school children and, as we all know, so it might be worth in future years exploring that as a possible future intervention for the for the Council, I think that's something that could be passed back to the Director of the cabinet member for children's OK. Thank you very much. I'm just going to add one small thing on this. This is for me this seems absolutely fabulous and it seems like a very small investment in order to help children learn and learn well, and I hear what counts Graham has said about, we might get further money, but perhaps what we can do is hopefully we will get it and then our Director of Finance will be able to make a positive General Fund of variation on the funds in order to account for the money we get from government when it arrives. I would you entirely concur with that approach. Thank you very much. Let us hope they are facing the government is born out by rail ossify
right, OK, Councillors, we've been asked to support the proposals to continue the breakfast clubs at to include 40 schools and approve a General Fund to General Fund variations. Are we happy to agree that agreed? Thank you very much, councillors right now,
he's not made it yet, no right.
who is coming in the door?

6 Supported Housing Acquisition (Paper No. 24-179)

right now, WANPA okay, I am going to carry on. Can we now move back to item 4 0 sorry, it's hangover 6, which is the supported housing acquisition. Councillor Henderson has come along, as well as the Cabinet Member. I'm going to remind Councillors, it's now nine o'clock, we obviously have bat means we've got an hour and a half to get through the rest of the agenda, so obviously keep it focused, please, and just a couple of words from is. This miss is this
Councillor Henderson Rachel is Rachel sunny, there could even hollow yes, OK, and this is another paper would normally have gone to adults, is coming to finance, okay and what I say, not even a couple of minutes, a couple of key points we should pick up on this and then will go to questions.
because I'm going to comment on Members read our papers, don't we yes,
thank you, Chair, and Rachel solely Director of Commissioning for Adult social Care and public Health, I'm really pleased to introduce this report from Adult social Care with, in collaboration with our housing and Regen colleagues.
we are hoping and excited to enter into an agreement with London Square to acquire and develop 56 units of supported housing are much needed provision for residents who require our support and supported housing.
as part of a wider development on the Springfield site. Happy to take questions, thank you. Thank you very much, bright I'm just thinking who went first last time, Councillor Warrell. First
OK and then can't scrape, thank you Chair.
from reading through the paper, I think this looks like a
exciting project, it's obviously an asset to the borough and it's in a good location, I suppose I have a couple of questions, so in relation to the the project itself.
first of all, do we actually need this capacity in terms of in terms of the acquisition?
and why are we doing this and not another housing association on our another organisation doing?
doing this
and actually will we fill the spaces, I suppose, is it's a question at the end of the day because it it's a substantial acquisition that we are pledging ourselves towards?
yes, Chair, thank you, Councillor for the question. Yes, we need a supported housing strategy and are working on a supported housing strategy for Wandsworth. We have significant supported housing provision that is no longer fit for purpose, so we do need to replace some of that and modernise our accommodation for people in need, plus we are placing people further and further away from their local network, and we are what's called spot purchasing, which is much more expensive, not as appropriate for people people with mental health needs or a learning disability who need to be near their support network. So our aim and hope is that we can bring people clicked back closer to home, therefore creating a a revenue benefit as well as a health and wellbeing benefit for people and their families.
we have significant need. We have a growing demand in adult social care. We have a projection that says we believe,
that growth will be at least an additional 50 placements required between now and 2030 just for learning disability and mental health, plus all the people that, ideally, we need to have replacement accommodation if we're going to reduce care and support costs over time, but we need modern, high quality accommodation.
why why why us there is a an issue and a challenge in the supported housing market, and we do have a number of are registered landlords who are exiting the market, so we again are wanting to develop partnerships and do some things ourselves, but not everything ourselves, so this is one part of that strategy where we can we are probably better place to create that strategic partnership between landlords, care and support providers and us as the Council and bringing having commissioning as a strategic partner, so we believe we will and can find those partners to to deliver this and fill the unit overtime for us and that we do have that demand the key strategies to reduce residential use we have significant cost for in residential use and that is a restrictive environment that people want to have their own tenancy.
OK, thank you very much. Councillor grow yeah, so I I should say up front that I'm not against the principle of what this paper is trying to do or arrogance the location proposed closures links Springfield is very good site for this kind of accommodation, and indeed its next to the mental health facilities that are there said. The local residents actually have greater understanding of people with those kinds of needs, so I think the site itself is good.
what concerns me here and described the three questions, but the first is 17 registered providers have been approached by London Square.
to run the scheme, all of whom have rejected it now, I take the point, but.
we're in a slightly different position and we can put people through, but nevertheless on the grounds that we're currently making placements spot purchased outside the Borough which we don't like to do have increased cost, it seems odd that the registered providers don't think there would be the demand for them or the ability for them to run this
facility profitably, but we think that it will cover costs for us, so could you just explain why it is that 17 providers have turned this game down, but we think is suitable for us,
I did think that was partly covered by the answer earlier actually, but would you like to just sum up very quickly, though that point are just exam briefly Chair, shall I am so we do have there is increased regulation and registered providers are saying that they wish to concentrate on their existing stock we have.
started in a number of conversations where we believe that long-term relationship with the Council, but it is not necessarily there when a developer approaches a registered provider plus the connection with the care and support provided that we can establish, were already in conversations with providers where we believe we will find a partner to deliver this scheme for us and with us.
OK, thank you very much less helpful in Part I just have to other questions,
Watson, so there are, I do try to resolve this outside the Committee and in fact, in the premium I was promised, someone would get back to me more details on the contract, but that hasn't happened, so essentially what I would normally expect to see alongside this paper would be a a a goal paper going into the proposed terms. So obviously in paragraph 14 we can see that were expected to make payments in instalments, but we don't actually have in front of us anything on what the terms are for, whether there are delays, whether there had changed the changes to the design or scope of the the project or build costs, what happens if a provider fails to deliver it,
and what happens contractually, not just for the regular snagging issues, but also if we discover subsequent problems I I said I would have expected to see a goal paper, at least that set out those terms given there have already been negotiated I did ask if I could have some information on that prior to Committee I didn't have it is there some reason why we still don't have that information for councillors?
Missoni delights and I don't know if the Cabinet Member like to say a couple of words as well on sorry on that one.
yeah, I've got to say I can provide a bit more detail on that now, should you wish to have something further in writing are absolutely take that away and provide that for the committee?
so yes, the payments will be staged
the council has a technical advisor Calford Seiden, who will certificate each stage and ensure that the payments are delivered in stages, appropriately, very experienced tracked, good track record of managing other developments for us in that way.
and were we will closely monitor the progress of the works with the same technical adviser and representatives of the Council, monitoring them very closely, retention will be accrued during the course of the works and any damages can be levied in the events that they don't agree or complete on time so we have got those backing and I understand the Committee asking for for some kind of assurance of that in in writing.
if we have problems with the provider or they go into insolvency again, we can go to the parent company guarantee for that.
and if there are any defects or there's an issue with ceasing trading, then we can.
we do have were able to go to the main works warranty so that the same experience of other developments we will call on that and believe that we have the
correct protection in place around that.
OK, I'll go before we, I did have a third question, if I can get by doing before we go to. That is what I'd like to establishes. Would we like to is was that acceptable, or do we still need to see a bit more about the contract in as a response, as with all of those things? Unfortunately, the devil can sometimes be in the detail, so it sounded acceptable, but without having it in in more detail in writing. It's very difficult for us to judge, which is why I mean currently, even though in principle, we think this looks like quite a good scheme and we will leaning towards abstaining simply because we just don't have that assurance, it will would be helpful to him in in paragraph 19, because I think this is a figure you may have. It says that the long-term income equates to and a minimum of 130,000 pounds per annum, but the table then excludes ongoing management and maintenance costs, so
what is our estimate of the ongoing annual management and maintenance costs
sorry.
sorry, I missed something I don't know the exact figure of the ongoing, but we do know that that's cover that will be fully covered by the rental income.
as to my problem, I there's that may well be the case, but we don't have the in front of us here is OK and the sights sounds like we like a bit more information, perhaps that would normally go to the adults, but this scheme will have to be agreed before the next adults Committee I guess yeah,
Councillor Councillor Henderson, the Sunni is that the case.
sorry, Councillor, I am homes cabinet before the role of social care and public health.
one of the reasons why we both is paper, and it was precisely because we currently expect the developer to hang on, so it is a matter of some urgency, the effectively taken his fantastic offer, I'm actually is or characterised as someone coming to you and saying were prepared to sell our house half price because that's essentially what we're getting and,
clearly there are a few to eat hours. I do need to be ironed out, but nonetheless this is an excellent opportunity to provide a long-term and urgent need, eat council asset in an excellent location for some of the most vulnerable people in our
OK, thank you, Councillor Henderson, I just wanted to come back on that because Councillor Henderson suggests these details are still to be ironed out. These are details that the Council already has, but it has not provided us with and if he doesn't know them either, then he's nationally now in a position to know it's good value. Graham
I was just going to comment that I understand where the scar, where that you would give rise in concerns, hopefully that Missoni and Councillor Henderson will be able to, even if it doesn't come back to us, makes you know, be assured in their own minds that those things have been covered.
OK, Councillor and bash.
I wanted to congratulate Councillor Anderson and officers for getting this developments.
planned in within Springfield village development. I, I believe, as the Sony said, we badly need local placements for people, particularly with mental health problems and disabilities, but including churchyard children leaving care yeah here in Wandsworth rather than sending that some distance and being disconnected from their their networks, but partly because it involves different client groups. So at the paper talks about older people, Care Leavers, learning disabled people with mental health problems and are up 56 units. How can we design the scale of groups of units is not not in in in smaller quantities so that people interact both with other
vulnerable people, but also with with the local community within the Springfield village development
thank you Miss Honey, thank Chair, yes, absolutely we have, this is a mixed use and we do have other examples around London of this type of scheme where we will have people with learning disabilities, mental health, the use of temporary accommodation and care leavers, and we have worked really closely with the a specialist OT in housing. We have a very, very high specification for supported housing and the design of the building and how the flow and the entrance and the use of outside space can mean that people have privacy and separation him and security, alongside integration with the rest of the
fantastic development where they will be able to live alongside the community in this on the rest of the Springfield site and the way that we arrange our care and support arrangements and contract and have adequate concierge and the support that will all be designed and carefully arranged and contracted for so that we are maximising.
people's freedom and flexibility, but and their care and support to support their vulnerabilities as well. OK, thank you very much, OK,
councillors happy to move to a vote on the recommendations which are approve entering into an agreement, authorised the award of the contract and approve a positive General Fund capital budget to pay for the building, okay, taking them together.
yes, OK, those in favour of this paper, please can you raise that your hands?
OK, that's 5 in favour, those against and those abstaining.
OK, thank you very much, thank you very much Councillors,
OK.
by giving us the details, Councillor Henderson, deaths at excuse me.
I would expect better of everybody, I expect good behaviour in this committee from everybody.
now we've now got.
sorry.

8 Access for All: A Policy Framework on Supporting Residents to access Support Services (Paper No. 24-181)

we were with now actually an item 8 somewhat later than I had hoped, which is the access for all policy, and the Leader of the Council has is coming to introduce this.
paper before we move to questions. OK, Councillor Hulk, welcome our thanks for having me on sorry on Les I was, I was just in Housing Committee, I know it's all having to be honest, you've turned up at a perfect moment when we were expected, where we've done everything else before yours, although I'm I'm really pleased, such and say a few words about this great proposal is is really important policy because we all know once versus a fantastic place to live. You know incredible green spaces, outstanding schools, wonderful vibrant cultural offer and the lowest council tax in the country, but despite those advantages we also know you know it remains divided. If not, everyone has access to those fantastic opportunity that might once worth so special. So first, we're gonna create Britain's best concessionary offer to help those disparities in initially
Leisure in in sports and culture to make one's worth a fairer Borough for all. Without adding appending to that Council Tax through sound financial management and responsible spending rules, we've been able to create this for point 8 5 million pound access for all fund which will boost opportunities, and it will boost fairness, because access for all will be a holistic step change in the approach that all Council departments take to ensure that we remove those barriers and that we increase access, because we are listening Council. This has been informed by the cost of living commission. I'm sorry, Councillor, acknowledged just had to stand, they step out which did fantastic work on that, so we've heard from residents, residents who we know fully 29%
of our children now are on free school meals,
more than 10,000 households having an income of less than 20,000 pounds a year, so I just draw your attention to three things in the paper, key things who benefits so Appendix 1 tells you, the the universal people, benefiting those tens of thousands of people.
on Universal credit on other means, tested benefits. Second thing is the deal. So in paragraph 15 and Appendix number 2, you'll see what the offer is for those things that you need, it will be free for that group of people, so you've got to register the birth of your child. If you are in the access for All cohort of people, you will no longer pay for that for those things that you can choose to do. That'll be 50% of. I think we're going to have some great discussions here and elsewhere about which concessions we need to go further on how far we can go. There are things like we
as a full crew. On Saturday there was 3 pounds 50 to use on one of our most deprived estates and no one was using it. You know, we've got to look at the costs, their equally bulky waste collections. I think we can ever really good discussion about those and then finally, the money which paragraphs 26 to 28. We are creating a fairer, more compassionate Wandsworth without adding a penny to that Council Tax in this case, as I say due to that sound financial management, high interest rates and smart use of our assets. So thanks for having me tonight's Committee, I think it is a brilliant showcase. It just highlights how we as a Council are delivering that transformative social agenda, underpinned by these access for all principles. Our leisure strategy will engage more communities and help residents live more active lifestyles. Next step, hopefully will and ring fence that investment from Nine Elms to ensure all areas of the borough, get the infrastructure improvements they need, and recommitting as support to families and children by extending that Magic breakfast programme so
there you go, we were proving again what competent and compassionate local government looks like, and standing on our own two feet, in these difficult times to deliver for all our residents. OK, thank you very much. Questions
like Councillor Warrell Councillor Gray gosh angle,
Councillor, or would you like to start everyone else, leave their hands up, please, so I can note you, Councillor Fraser.
Councillor euro, OK great, thank you.
once again, this is a great paper, also recognise that this is a policy framework and actually not a full paper, that's gonna go into great detail around a lot of areas, because his work to be done and frameworks give us the road map and direction moving forward.
I just wanted to take you to page 1 3 9
paragraph 37,
were you talk about all officer delegation and strong internal governance, I think some of my colleagues might be concerned about about how a programme like this is actually managed and governed and and held together, and it'd be useful just just to start off if you could just elaborate a bit more on that paragraph and give me a bit more explanation around that recognising that this is a policy framework, another detail paper,
maybe I'll be happy to, so how would you like to introduce yourself, sorry clever O'Connor, Director of Policy policy, climate change and communications, I always forget my job title in here, while so yes, so we've got we've developed really strong governance around the cost of living programme.
we have a programme manager in place, he manages that and really strong processes in place. We are looking to mirror that process that we've already trialled and found to be robust and apply that for access for all
thank you, Councillor Gwen.
yes, so the Leader of the Council and we're we're grateful to have him here at this Committee to actually answer questions, he described this for point 8 5 Bill million, as as coming from a sound financial management and the the executives work, page 345 of our agenda shows that the actual net figure of is not the 4 4.8 5 million but is under 800,000 pounds.
so when Councillor Graham, if you're going off on two different papers, but I'm not what they did, the pay lorries ICSs obviously referenced, and so the point is that this for point 8 5 as being to which paragraph when EASEL, which has recommendation to see as being taken as a windfall and yet we know from the other papers in this pack that the the relevant figure is under 800,000 pounds and when it is considered as indeed that paper goes on to say that the deficit in the dedicated schools project is due to come onto the council's balance sheet,
in practice, there's no real windfall at all, so there's there are two questions here, one is what is it appropriate to spend in this area?
and it may well be appropriate to spend some of these sums, but what actually seems to have happened is that you've alighted on a figure then chosen to spend up to it, and that figure does not reflect the underlying financial information that we have before us
thank you who would like us to believe that well, the latest account thick mean it, I appreciate you said that to the Leader of the Council, but quite often one of the officer, I'm looking for Ms Meyer and I asked him the premium, I was told as a political decision so I was only the Leader took adviser.
and I'm and then perhaps if we can get the financial background from.
disbursed sorry and you'll introduce self, thank you, Chair, Catherine bursting, Director of financial management.
the the for point 8 5 is outlined on the to in the table on the page that Councillor Graham has noted, which is prior to any use of reserves.
that were planned for the year and and not, as, as has been mentioned, that it has been decided as being a figure to be set aside for the access for All fund.
sorry, anything further to add from.
I would be grateful why the lead at the Lyric looks to explain why he regards it as a windfall when the net position after reserves is under a 100,000 pounds and when considering with USB it there's no windfall at all as I say it may be appropriate to spend this money but what we have here is not a needs based approach to determine the figure the figure has been determined by what is being described as a windfall when it's no such thing could he explain why he thinks that's appropriate given we were told that was his political decision.
so I think the the figure has been explained, you know we, we set our budgets last year.
very difficult year for local government should be aware, not just housing. Colleagues, because of the dreadful homelessness crisis, but also with adult social care, with children's didn't get the parking income you might want so a lot of departments were you know feeling pressure requiring more money, actually more than 10 million pounds was put out into those departments, so everyone had all the money that they needed to run the Council. We've been very fortunate in terms of actually strengthening services not having to reduce them, and then we looked at all the money that we got in from the government, all the money that we plan to spend from our reserves, and so on. We are fortunate to have this money now. In previous years, the Conservatives have just put that straight into reserves or or whatever they've done with it. We want to get that straight back to the front line and that's what we're gonna do it's the people's money, and that's where it's going. The Conservatives will need to decide if they back this or if they don't back this, and we need to be absolutely clear, this is turning on its head
their previous policy, which was to charge the legal maximum for services, and when where you couldn't to charge the market maximum for services, and you need to be honest that the market rate is often what to earner. Households can afford, or people with very good jobs can afford and valleys a political choice to price out tens of thousands of people in one sort from being able to take part in those activities. So the proposal on the table is access for OK. Thank you very much to respond to that. Given the Leader suggested, we ought to respond, which is simply to say that we excuse me. He said that the Conservative council needless greyer. Well, I'd like to know Graham, so he doesn't want Councillor Graham
right. You've asked two questions, you've had things OK actually get an answer, though, develop Councillor Fraser, I think his next thank you Chair, and thank you for this direction this evening I've been pleased to see the the uptake at Tooting Bec lie day for this so far and and across the board. I just wonder if you might not be able to say at this point, but just thinking about the future are there are, or are there are ongoing conversations about where this is going future about organisations we might be working with them with my Transport Chair ha on obviously include the cost of living commission. We know that transport costs are a big barrier to too many people. Is that is there any work in potentially in that area that we can use to help people who may not be able to afford cargo of whom transport costs are our barrier?
right sorry, who would like to deal with that one yeah.
Councillor Hogg,
happy to chair thanks very much for the question yeah I mean, I think.
I think as Councillor world, so there's the these early days. This is the framework, and I think rather as we have to with the living wage and other things you, you put your own house in order first and then you go out and advocate and talk to other people, and I think once we've got our leisure offering once we then looking at births and deaths and marriages were looking across all of the things that the Council does within going out to partners and not just fantastic partners like Wimbledon Foundation. You know hundreds of tickets for refugees to go to Wimbledon and partners such as Annie Anna enable, but you're actually going across the road to the cinema and saying we look, it's Wednesday afternoon you've you've your screening is 90% empty. How about you let these people in for a pound a time or you know you're doing that with cafes and restaurants were very lucky to have fantastic businesses like Apple, Penguin, Random House and so on in the borough. So I want to be clear this is a whole philosophy and if it goes well beyond just Council services and it goes well beyond just that universal people, you can imagine they'd be discounts at a certain level for everyone you know through your Wandsworth card which would become your Wandsworth that, but then we want to be absolutely clear for this group of people, the the very most lowest income, most deprived people, it will be Britain's best concessionary offer.
OK, thank you very much. Cats corner. Thank you Chair, and I really do appreciate the leader coming to the Committee to answer our questions. There are still unanswered questions about how this is going to be paid for. It's still isn't clear to us from page 345 how the numbers add up, but I do appreciate that this is about a policy framework and it's about setting out an ambition, and it is a very big ambition to set to deliver the UK's best, the concessionary framework on what basis where we know that's been achieved, because a lot of the initiatives set out in this paper have already been delivered by other boroughs in London, and I wanted to know how we would measure our success on that claim. Thank you. Councillor corner later
yes, great question, and I think sometimes you start with the vision you start with the aspiration, I think what you'll see is when each individual bid comes into the fund.
it. It will have its own targets on, I'm sorry for not responding more directly to Councillor Fraser but, for instance, in the realm of active travel, you might say, can we subsidise, you know, car sharing, or can we subsidise e-bike usage? So you'd you'd bit into the access for All funding safe with subsidise those companies by this much 20,000, low-income people would be able to make 80,000 journeys or whatever it might be one, and I guess I would encourage you to help us challenge officers that if you saw something more generous happening in Southwark or Havering or whatever it is, that was really driving outcomes, particularly for you know, groups that have been marginalised in the past. You know, challenges chat, let's challenge ourselves to make it the most generous
the most compassionate offer in London. OK, thank you very much
Councillor Amash, wanting to follow Councillor Horne corners question in a way, and refer back to the debate we had about health inequalities around the Leisure Strategy with Mr Eddie was followed up. Why? We're questions is how we measure the effect of tackling inequalities, so that this will have some bearing on that, and I was wondering if, because it's a new initiative, whether Ms O'Connor had anything to say about is the measure of success gonna be related to our are tackling if it inequalities, whether it's leisure inequalities or education, or health inequalities. This should have an effect in in in that area to make
it Murray equal for all to participate Koh, will we be able to measure that the end of the year?
Ms O'Connor, I don't know if you were actually here, when can I was hit that were I, I was here for the for the alleged paper, so so also. This paper obviously refers to health inequalities that we're also cross referenced in the leisure paper. I would follow up Mathews response with we need to measure things in the short term, so we need to ask, as the Councillor Hodges said, measure those uptake measure the impact in those ways that gives us an an insight as to whether the programme is working, whether it's happening immediate impact. We also obviously need to look at it from the different groups as well, to make sure that we're we're engaging all the groups equally and where we're not able to target outreach, and so I want to be able to to bring those in and make sure they benefit. Then longer term will look at the health inequalities, the impact on the health inequalities, employment, access to opportunities. So why do for Framework? But just to reassure you in the short term will be looking at detailed measures as well. OK, thank you very much,
Councillor lawless, thank you, Jora, so it's really interesting to hear the pupils sit talking about the funding of it, and I'm sure Councillor holding will remember the last administration to fund their things, they thought of school playgrounds and charge kids to youth playground in Battersea Park.
so. Looking at paragraph 5, you've already outlined some of the things that we have done already running up to this, but can he tell a bit more tell us a bit more about the impact that previous administrations didn't have had and the things that we've announced in and done in paragraph 5 of had as well
okay, you've been asked at our request, yes of you gag sounded like a pretty politically loaded question, I guess well I I I want I want robust debate, I went away and run back through the greatest hits, I mean I just I have contrasted the approach you either one to run the small-state Council that has a super free market. Let's make the most money we can out of our leisure centres, let's profit from our parts. Let's hammer that as hard as we can let to charge children 2 pounds 50 to use a playground or you can turn it round, as I say and say, these are the people's assets, these the people's money. We have a responsibility to widen participation and lift up everybody
hugely proud of the launch we had at Tooting Bec llai o. There's hundreds of families there, I mean to just have a look at some of the testimonials. These families have never been to the lighter before that's what access for all means, but they have a fantastic day there think were tens of thousands, now, maybe 30,000 people on on gym and swim, you know absolutely crucial, you know we, we've just seen a
meeting about the Ultan regeneration and not not just the ball crawl which yeah, I don't think we should be charging 3 54, but they were saying many of the children in that state had never been in Richmond Park. You know, is it is about accessing Battersea Park feeling it's a place for you, yeah I play football every week, but I've never played football or cricket in the borough because there aren't the pitches available at the right price. I mean if I, as leader of the council, can't do that, were what's a kid on the Duddington estate were what chance has he got so yeah, though that those are some of the contrast in some of the stories, and I think also talks about
how if we're sitting here in a year's time, we might be able to measure success, so thank you very much, Councillor corner
you had another question, thank you, yes, I did.
with Appendix 1, did I hereby Leader correctly when he said that people who fall into don't fall on the page, page 140 and the people who fall into those categories would get the services listed in Appendix II for free?
was that correct
so not all of those services will be for free, so if you refer to are just escaped through.
paragraphs 15
the principles are where services 1 which were residents need to access it will be offered free to all residents in the identified groups, so those are the groups in Appendix 1 where services 1 which all residents can choose to access it is a 50% concessions should be offered. I would also highlight that the approach set out in this paper is that we will engage with residents who are in those groups to test that those are the concessions that will make the most difference to them.
thank you.
right Councillor Graham, thank you so, Councillor Lord is referred to the schemes in paragraph 5 of at 50 million cost of living programme, the amount of actions in spent the vast majority of if there's been funded by the government and that's because the approaches Council took and this administration took of putting an arbitrary figure forward from reserves to spend has meant that the it hasn't actually been able to find the schemes.
to cover the money that had allocated and it's all been rolled forward, and that's the problem, but we're now seeing again on this Councillor Hulk, put the challenge across its because of what the check that their response to the challenges bring forward, schemes, individual schemes and will tell you if we support them but instead of bringing forward schemes you brought forward a misleading, an arbitrary figure which is put forward here without any reference to the underlying what the underlying need may or may not be, can you at least accept,
that unless you show us what you want to spend the money on, we shouldn't be voting for it right, OK, thank you, Councillor Graham,
I I sort of really don't, I'm not entirely sure that what you said actually needs a response unless Councillor Hawkfield, I'd be delighted for him to respond. If, unless you feel so, he's missed onto online confident enough to do so, no, I Councillor Graham, I think what you did, there was state what you thought, you know what your position is, obviously you are entitled to state your position and say what you think, and that's your prerogative, identical issues. I wanted to respond cabinet up to hear Graham
I really don't like being interrupted, however strongly you might feel OK, so it would be great if you didn't I just say, as I took that very much as a comment of your position, which is perfectly it's it's your position and that is how it is.
I am just going to say is given the time I would, I'd what sorry
no, I'm going to say this is I'm given the time and where we are, I think we've had a good discussion on this, I'd like to move to the vote, please, we're being asked to agree the policy agree the road map which is then actually in paragraph 31 and agree the creation of the funding
so taking them altogether or take sorry.
yes, take them together, OK, so those in favour of the recommendations in paragraph 2, please could you raise their hands, that's probably gonna be fine, I guess excellent, thank you very much, those against the recommendations in paragraph 2 could you raise your hands please?
okay and those abstaining right, thank you very much, thank you very much Councillors, thank you very much for Councillor hope, okay, but I think you're going to be staying for the next item, which is the borough-wide infrastructure paper paper number 24 1 8 2

9 Borough-wide Infrastructure Investment (Paper No. 24-182)

which starts who?
on page sorry, I've met, thank you 1 7 1 OK, Councillor, would you like to say a couple of words about this one place before we go into, or I mean I I go and thanks I haven't we all the other so very few words, because I know you've got a lot to get through the packed agenda, just say. I think this is a hugely important proposal. I think I think it's a wonderful proposal to free up tens of millions of pounds to be spent across the entire borough, with resources following need all wards on a level playing field. I mean we known. Growth is positive. It provides jobs by the public buildings, new homes, but it's got to be done in balance, and you know beat people said to us very clearly, they said to all of us at the election, the era of just you know to buy on terms, building luxury flats for overseas investors is over what local people want is genuinely affordable homes for them and their families. So as Nine Elms reaches maturity. You know, we know it will still need new school, new road, new GP surgeries will have all the facilities it needs, but it's clear that there is excess value, their we, as I say, or free, that on an even basis to fund a decade of renewal across the borough, it's wonderful to see the early fruits of that doubling investments in roads and pavements. You'll see projects coming forward in every ward, so I know it's quite technical and and we've got fantastic officers who've been living and breathing this, but having already looked at neighborhoods CIL, this is now looking at the strategic CIL and, as I say, I just I just believe, very, very strong. This is the right thing to do. OK, thank you very much questions on this, please
OK, Councillor corner.
you know the one with your hands up, thank you to the Leader for outlining this approach, what discussion the Nine Elms regeneration is obviously a partnership between Wandsworth and Lambeth council, who are working in partnership to improve the Vauxhall Nine Elms Battersea opportunity Area,
what discussions he had with the council leadership in Lambeth about this, because the effect of this paper is to potentially take away millions of pounds worth of infrastructure from the Nine Elms opportunity area which would benefit communities in Vauxhall, as well as within the ones who are part of the opportunity area.
thank you very much, is that a question for you, Councillor, well actually for the team, I think part of it to be fairies for me, but I I'll give a brief answer, which is I was actually with Councillor Holland earlier today and the answer is that I have had confidential discussions with the leadership of Lamberth on this but I'll hand over to officers who will be able to explain more about the consultation and the process that gone through.
okay, I could you introduce yourself, please, I am, and I'm Steve Richards, I'm the head of programme delivery for Nine Elms.
I think there was potentially a question also around the 9 am strategy board, we had a meeting in scheduled for June 20th, but due to the election it's been postponed until September 26, so it hasn't been discussed at Strategy Board, but certainly at a senior officer level.
there has been open discussions around this as a as a potential outcome.
can we just start before we move on from that, can I just add, something is, I think we're talking about the CIL is payable within the borough, even if it's within the Nine Elms opportunity area, isn't it so what you get CIL according to where the
building is is, but whether it's in there would have been delivered by once, we've still would clearly have benefits fly back to all communities because they live in the same locality or I know OK, I understand that OK, Councillor Knowles, thank you, so just that I had an e-mail from a local constituent who was questioning why choosing isn't going its fair share despite the fact that we've announced three and a half million pounds and investment which people are very excited about question around what percentage of residents live in Nine Elms because I've noticed that it's getting 46% of the funding and Tooting residents do want their fair share and a previous question it was answered showed that for every 1 pound spent in Tooting town centre 5 or spent in Putney High Street and carbon junction, so what is the message for Tooting residents alone?
yeah, Councillor Hulk, I'm afraid I don't know the population figures for Nine Elms, maybe Councillor corner does and equally if it's alright, I'll returning writing to some of the other questions councillors of all this raises, I think the principle I can say is that all communities across the borough are looked at on the basis of need on all of the investment opportunity to judge properly.
it's highly regrettable if communities can turn round and say we feel like for decades, who've been under-invested in our bins, are worse at housing's worse pavements are worse, and where we find that you must write to attention where we find that we will correct it.
OK, thank you very much, Councillor Gwen.
yes, well, it's good to have a a paper in front of us on developer contributions and levies, obviously in Councillor hugs manifesto he promised to raise 1 million a year in levies on developers to fund Wandsworth housing hardship payments and he further promised to put more law enforcement officers on the streets double domestic violence, support install more CCTV and fun youth workers all paid for by developed levies on property developers. Can he confirm that currently his administration has raised nothing from property developers to fund those things and can he tell us when he expects to raise the first Penny?
happy to go with that one, I mean, it seems, slightly out side, the scope of this paper, but no other, I'm I'm I'll have a go, yeah yeah, we we have doubled support for victims of domestic abuse. We have doubled the Town Hall Community Safety officers, we just committed to higher another one for the ultimate state this evening as well
super bizarre that you could read a paper that talks about up to 100 million pounds being freed for investment across the Borough and think that that hasn't happened we've been very clear about how the extra investment in roads and pavements is being paid for you'll see projects rolling out in all 22 wards.
that's my answer
we would question was not whether you spent money on those things, but whether you've actually raised it from developers, as you promised, or whether you're taking it out of other funding that the Council House you promised this to the boo paid for by developers and residents, what do you have to pay for it and it wouldn't come from reserves there hasn't been the case as it.
I Councillor Graham, I think that's the Surrey Chair this this is bizarre and I it's just rude bully-boy politics shouting over the chair the this is not the sort of respect we look to see in the Town Hall we will be reviewing our democracy, we will be changing the way this works. We've got people's children and grandchildren watching this this evening we are not living up to the standards. Wandsworth council, the season
trying we'll see you avoiding every single question, you're asked now pledging to make sure you're never asked questions in future Councillor Graham, may I suggest you also had the opportunity of Councillor questions and perhaps that will be inappropriate route right, Councillor Graham,
I've asked about a sides any more.
you know where the door is cause corner yeah I note from the previous answer to my question that the Leader said he had had confidential discussions with our leadership in Lambeth, but that doesn't really speak well to his commitment to run a a genuinely listening council that engages with communities and is happy to share information so we do expect.
plans for the Nine Elms opportunity area to not take place through confidential discussions and to be subject to scrutiny, just like everything else in this town who should be, he also I mentioned that we need to spend so money in areas to support all communities. I would remind him that there is a tremendous deprivation are within the not Vauxhall Nine Elms opportunity area that is very severe and and Community infrastructure Levy can go towards addressing some of those inequalities.
simply rating the sale that's been gathered and collected from developers in 9 pounds to spend elsewhere means that these are communities may not be as supported as they otherwise would have been under the original plan set out under the previous administration on page 107 right there is not a question or comment on waiting for the question so are you asking is that going to well that's that's one of the points yeah, one, but there's also for sorry, Councillor for sorry, I appreciate sickie bully-boy.
you just don't councillors right, so it's obviously got to that time of night in this committee.
where it all gets a bit tricky. Let's take this slowly, Councillor corner, I think if I can understand, your question is given the move will they may I sum up your question first, please? Thank you lovely, let me make it clear, I think your question is. If the money has moved away, there are people who are in the Nine Elms opportunity area who may be disadvantaged. What will be done to avoid that is that pretty much the substance of it and the second question, but let's make it a question because I can't thank you and thank you for not talking over me too much. We don't want to see that behaviour and that the Turnbull
on page 177, it does say in the table, but those 8 million pounds shortfall in the Community infrastructure Levy, could the Leader confirm that that's 8 million pounds worth of in and investment into Nine Elms, but now otherwise weren't happen and finally page 173 paragraph 8 states that whilst ring-fencing will be removed for the Nine Elms Community infrastructure Levy the wider once worth so will not be so there is essentially a double standard that where
the rest of the Borough can raid the Nine Elms part of self.
but the rest of the borough as a ring-fenced provision,
did you that wasn't how I read the paper at Councillor Hulk?
Okaz, corridor.
sorry, it's flashy, I'll help as much as it can be, I'm I may have to follow it by e-mail, I mean.
plainly, council leaders have confidential discussions with each other, as friends do as council officers. Do I that are losing as a sensible point? I didn't catch the point about the eight or 9 million, so if we can pick that up separately but in terms of there being deprived communities near to Nine Elms, I think this is an absolutely crucial point and we do need to heal those devise. We do need to stitch those communities together and I would love Chair if we could just hear a very little bit from Mr Richards, whose here about, for instance, the work in the sesame Oasis the investment on the Pattemore Savona in Kerry, gardens estates because I think Councillor corners right, there is a really important point there
Councillor corner is that's something you happy to hear very quickly, yeah add, and actually may I just check when the next we normally used to have the Nine Elms opportunities at the report from the Board would come to this committee.
could you just sessions out when the next one to due I'm assuming it's still coming here if there is yeah?
yes, thank you Chair. Yes, there is still the intention to bring a paper on the NY 9 homes programme that would happen in the September cycle. Ideally OK, thank you, thank you. Thank you, Councillor Hogg. Yes, recently we've been working on the Oasis site, which is at the top of firstly, Road next to the EU. On car centre, we have been conducting an engagement process, has got three parts to it. That also included the happy streets festival that just happened recently. So at the moment we're listening to the community trying to understand what they want to have happened for this disused greenspace and come September. We expect to be developing project proposals for that space, so I think as a team we are still looking for opportunities for investment and improvement for the local community, particularly in those deprived areas within nine arms. OK, thank you very much
Councillor Ann bash yeah, I just wanted to say I think a borough wide approach to strategic CIL makes for fairness, sense and access for all, just to quote the last paper, particularly people in in a Westhill West Pattni and Roehampton feel that they haven't had strategic investment and,
obviously, if there are strong needs in Nine Elms, if we have a borough wide approach, those communities will be able to bid for infrastructure, but this is just about opening up to us all, dealing with bids in relation to deprivation and merit, isn't that just a pretty sensible thing to do I support the paper OK, thank you very much, Councillor Richard Jones, you had your hand up.
thank you Chair a question to Councillor Hogg if he knows the answer, paragraph 9 on page 1 7 3.
talks about the CIL allocated in Nine Elms and it's used to date, can you give us an update on the Northern Line extension study?
what you mean for the gate.
sorry, the Clapham Junction 1 or the
will I think we sorry?
I think you make a bit to Clapham Junction is yes, yes, and I think this is the Northern Line extension studied at Clapham Junction, if we could get an update on that.
Chair, would it be easier if we called it the Northern Line extension extension with? Well, we've actually with that, but so I I happen not to have that to hand. You'll be aware, we refunded the initial feasibility study. I'm sort of looking at officers who aren't looking back at me at the moment, but if it if it's all right, if we can reply in writing last week yeah perhaps you can reply in writing on that one and hopefully that will be something that comes to one of our Committees, 0 sorry, cats, Frazer, it's included later on in the Transport indicated
all right. Thank you very much. Yes, no, sorry that the the leaders, given a fair answer, that the the question was that this was a a much you know it was announced with much fanfare by the new administration, the prospect of the Northern Line extension coming to Clapham Junction since the initial feasibility study. We've we've heard nothing more from it and indicators that Councillor Fraser refers to don't really shed much light on that, but believed is given a fair answer, which is he doesn't know tonight, but he can follow up in writing. I'm very grateful
brilliant OK, thank you very much right. So the matter before us at the moment is to excuse me, sorry, I've managed to look at the wrong paper. Yes, the correct one, okay, we're being asked to
consider the recommendations about the in 2 A and two B involving the borough wide infrastructure.
approach for strategic CIL all those in favour, please raise their hands, thank you, OK, 5, all those against, please raise their hands, all those abstaining,
right thank you for thank you very much, Councillor, thank you Councillor, how are you going to stay or you're gonna go?
you'll want to get OK, thank you very right, thank you very much for coming, I hope that.
you haven't been put off for the future, okay and I would now say it's three minutes to 10.

10 Wandsworth NCIL - Outcome of Engagement (Paper No. 24-183)

we're now on paper 24 1 8 3 which is about the neighbourhood.
community infrastructure levy, N CIL and the Neighbourhood Renewal Fund, now really very swift introduction, three key points, Mr Evans, and then we'll go straight to questions.
is it?
you happen.
the boat on this one, I don't think there's a lot we can pull out of the debate so well, I just need to check what our whether we have any questions from our side, yes, is that are not sorry.
we're all happy to agree that one they okay.
thank you very much.
I think there was unanimous support for that paper.

11 Affordable Housing Viability Guidance (Paper No. 24-184)

OK, when I want to paper 24 1 8 4, which is the paper on the viability assessments and Ms Turner, I think, is going to we will also have.
Paul. Where's he gone, Palmer was here, Mr Moore and Ms bra Ms Turner, if you could draw attention to two or three key points on this paper, but we need to think about and then we can move to discussing it lovely. Thank you yes, my name's Debbie Turner I'm a senior planning officer in the Spatial Planning and design team and the housing and viability section
so the development viability in Planning Guidance Wandsworth has been produced to provide clear direction to applicants on what the Council expects in relation to affordable housing and associated viability assessments when submitted when submitting major applications. The premise of the guidance is to ensure that at an early stage applicants understand the key priorities the Council expects in relation to affordable housing delivery within the borough this includes the prioritisation of social rented housing delivering affordable housing on site the inclusion of intermediate rented products in place of other intermediate products, such a shared ownership and first homes, and promoting the delivery of family sized social rented homes within the housing mix provided on-site producing. This guidance now will allow officers from the point of publishing this document to direct applicants to this guidance, which will in inevitably allow applicants to understand what the Council requires.
and with the with the view of reducing lengthy viability discussions at a later stage in the application process, thank you OK, thank you very much, Councillor Ann bash and then Councillor Graham, thank you Jack I've always been interested in understanding the complexities that financial viability assessments in planning applications could be officer, please explain to me what's new within the new financial viability guidance.
yes, of course.
the main premise is to provide clear direction, which is not currently within any other guidance that the Council has so the
essentially, the supplementary planning document which provide, which is part of the planning obligations speedy that supported the existing.
the the existing Local Plan, and that was previously published in October 2020, so obviously the viability.
the viability landscape has changed considerably since that point assumptions have changed and obviously the Council's requirements have changed, so it provides more direction and it provides what priorities the Council they're looking for, which at the moment our current guidance doesn't do.
OK.
Councillor Graham
Roof.
I think Councillor on behalf raise the relevant point versus reached me more as a consolidation exercise rather than anything else, not that there's anything wrong with consolidating and and yeah systemising what we're doing, and that's a good thing to do.
Can Can the officers point to anything in this guidance that makes it more likely that we will secure more of the affordable homes that the Executive says they wish to achieve?
yes, you happy to pick on that, maybe Mr Moore's were possibly as well if you could join us just in case thank you.
of course, obviously, with viability, quicker decisions make a significant impact to a lot of developers, obviously quicker decisions mean lower risk, so, for example, at the moment where we are in a slightly more turbulent economic time for a lot of developers having a quicker decision from the local planning authority which obviously developers if they provide us with a better application initially, which results in less lengthy viability discussions, for example, if they submit an application from the outset that prioritises social rented, that prioritises a good mix of family sized units. That means that that reduces the level of negotiation significantly, which in turn,
allows them to increase the amount of affordable housing on-site, as obviously for many developers it it is it, it can be. Those lengthy discussions can result in the meeting to put more money into the scheme at a later date.
any of the procedures set out, it's just the fact that this was anticipated, it might scheme up PSPO negotiations, in which case, could somebody from the Executive tell us whether, if, under the the viability assessments, of their now endorsing a scheme is still shown to be unviable if it were to meet their desired criteria, whether we would then allow it to pass on the basis of viability assessment with a lower level of affordable or a subsection 1 0 6 or whatever else are you actually going to honour these viability assessments if you vote to put this through
I think, Mr right, I think that we haven't got anyone from the Executive able or is no one on your side were able to respond, sorry, not hear Councillor Graham, there's plenty of people able to which the Deputy Leader still issues remembered executive says the Cabinet Member Councillor Graham,
enough, thank you.
I think the Chief execs happy to respond clearly, I'm not a member of the Executive, everyone would have spotted that I was just going to point out that of course those decisions are planning function, not not one for the Executive, so thank you because that was what I would have said as well having been on Planning Committee sets a planning decision, and you know that and I'm afraid your colleague OK.
right.
thank you.
any other questions on this one.
right our excellent, thank you very much, Mr Turner, on sorry, you had to wait for such a long time, OK, so we're moving to.
the basically recommendations are to adopt to this guidance and allow the director to publish it and further updates, if necessary, those Councillors in favour of this please raise their hands everywhere, but have you ever got 1 2 3 4 5 in favour, those against?
any abstentions.
OK, thank you very much, thank you very much Councillors.
on a point of order. I, I'm I'm Ike this is offered in good spirit. We are quite keen to discuss the Council's financial report results which, and that report, which we think is quite important. We're not downplaying the importance of the ones as corporate plan actions and KPIs that they're an awful lot of do's, and I fear that if we take the agenda items in the current order, we will get no opportunity to discuss the Council's right. We can't possible to alter the agenda, order slides to accommodate that Mayor. Well, what I quite like to do is stick with the agenda items, but I absolutely understand what you've said. I'd like to stick with the order we've got with the aim, I will let everyone know when we have done will give it 15 minutes and see at maximum, and then we'll be able to start on the Council's financial okay that alright with everyone, OK, we're going to look at the KPIs
I think we have.
Claire O'Connor here, and what the suggestion has been the way I'm going to take this is, I think, Ms O'Connor, we discuss that we just go straight through for the paper, wasn't it was?
yeah, I think we discuss, we would group the pages, I think it yet air and then I will draw in any officers if it's a question are years so we do have officers able to deal with this OK, so we are,
the first bit covers the indicators themselves, that's up to page 2 3 9, I'd now like questions on pages 2 4 1.
onwards on the Health Committee indicators, if there are any questions on these, please can you raise your hands,
none at all, Okido.
right next are, and the other thing I'd also comment for anyone watching is, of course, many of these indicators would normally go to the relevant committee, we've got them here because it is important that we look at these.
okay, next, stop is children's committee indicators, starting on page 2 50
any questions or comments on those Councillors.
very brief, yes, brief one on his outside of our normal remit so that may have been dealt with in the Education Committee, but I noticed that the percentage of 16 to 7 page please there's page 2 7 4, obviously, when we're not quite on track on the target for those who are NEETs not in education, employment or training,
what action is being taken to address that, give that everything is obviously very important thing to realise did it did you catch that question I did?
sorry.
right I, the question was, the indicator is Page 2 7 4, and it's the number of sensitive 16 to 17 year olds, Her neat and were lower than we would wish for that higher sorry higher, that's something we would wish to reduce, so if you could,
introduce yourself and tell us about what the plans are to.
of course, one of those reshape Andrew, I am the Director of Children's social care.
we're doing everything we can to obviously have our young people in education, employment and training we're developing apprenticeship offers were developing offers, particularly for care leavers are care experienced young people we're supporting through lifelong learning partnership arrangements, it's clearly some something that we need to address, but there is a degree of complexities with our young people, particularly those kind of coming out of COVID.
and their ability and confidence, and the challenges of mental health, in the often prevent an easy route into education, employment and training. Without quite a deal of support, can I just for myself he said, could you just elaborate a bit about the COVID because that was a question that I had when I saw the indicator how much, but the fallout from COVID is still affecting the these young PGA, so it would have been what 12 13 when in lockdown is are clearly a critical period and adolescent development in terms of developing the confidence, the abilities to be able to engage in learning, to be able to engage in training, to develop those skills that you would have to join the workforce. Some of our young people have been very challenged in in in those areas alongside having developed quite severe anxiety and depression and one that tends to affect those in our more marginalised communities. So really is about supporting them with bespoke packages to get them into education, employment and training, as they face those challenges alongside the cost of living challenges. Poverty so on and so forth, OK, thank you very much. OK, so that's
children's
look at, I'm hoping I've got the right ones, I think the next excuse me.
we should sorry an environment which thank you, which starts on page 2 7 8, thank you.
Councillor lawless, thank you on page 2 8 7, the very last target shows that the number of flight of enforcement
is lower this year than it was last year and
political spread might suggest that we're doing less, but is that because fly tipping instances are actually reducing because of some of those schemes with?
good evening, Councillor Paul Chadwick, Da Executive Director of Environment Community Services.
yeah this this data has been collected in the same way for for many years. It's been collected by many of you will know, Mrs Sharon Wright 13, her team remain as zealous as ever in their actions on enforcement. Her team remain at the same scale.
so MIT or instinct is that the the this, this decrease in actions, it is explainable by their actually being less fly tipping, and that's in importantly in argue because we're or additional work on mega skips and nor roll-out of even more mega skips across across the Council
can I add something to that as well as it's occurred to me due to excuse me, as you were talking those figures there, obviously that's borough wide, but there could have been changes in different areas do how easy would it be to provide?
the figures on a ward basis because obviously when the fly tip is cleared and that you know where the location is, and I just wonder if that's something that might be considered for the justice piece of at extra information yeah yeah, so I can tell you that to Mrs HRA I'm pretty confident that the audit was club captain on a dry spices and that we can therefore break it out into detail in different wide so I'm pretty confident that can be done.
so yeah, OK, thank you to quickly on that, isn't it also true of F P, N S and P N cease because those are issued on a address basis, so we would, if I wanted to know, for example, how many ESPN's or PCSOs had been issued on a ward by ward basis we now have a celebrations Jones and as there may be people watching
could you elaborate what PC N and F see at least, please?
compare our light.
so I broadly fines. People get for presenting their waste early, there's a there's a statutory difference between whether it's an f p n or a PC, and that people disagree about, but presumably we could get all that information on a on a ward level could mean that there should be no no reason in principle why we couldn't do that no reason. In principle, a group is based on an address, not all Espions PCSOs are but yeah, those the are
we should be able to write that out of concern. He has done nothing, I can feel Mrs riots and were in the either so worried about how she's gonna get this data together, so both the in principle we asked how long it would take us to bracket back in that way, I'm not sure, but I'm I'm I'm pretty confident that we're we got an address, we should be breaking out at least Chadwick, perhaps then what I'm sorry on. Thank you did just one final thing, the the patrols that
and as all the contract to do.
are those others decided sort of operationally, you know, in in in collaboration with the director it, or are they got a pretty freehand in where they go in the borough, looking for fly-tipping?
no, not with the director Executive Director, yes, within the directorate there are discussions on a regular basis to where they ought to target Abu, obviously we use their intelligence as well, I think there's a cooperative discussion monitored at both discussion.
right Councillor hedges.
thank you for the report, and thank you Chair just wanted to ask a quick question about the overall crime rate, which is on page 2 4 8.
apologies, if you mentioned, it was last night briefly popped out it, it shows that it's the lowest crime rates in inner London, now the figures are quite outdated.
and also doesn't tally up with what we're seeing, certainly in my ward in Balham there's been an uptick in crime.
appreciate some some of the crimes that are committed on always reported, but could you just explain this figure to me, because this seems very positive and doesn't feel doesn't seem to me to be reflective of what actually is currently going on, thank you
2 4 8 was health, wasn't it
community caboose, yes, but it was under the Health Committee yeah
Mr Evans, I can so thank you for the question I can give.
so that the indicators based on a sort of a long-standing sort top-line met collective measure, so it was the same measures used to sort standard standardised across all sort of BC use and police areas across the the country, so it is the overall crime rate has said the figures we still remain the lowest.
in inner London as a positive, we do measure a wider suite of crime types and P eyes as part of a dashboard for the Community Safety Partnership, which is a statutory partnership of all the different
policy, including the Council of see in the borough so, and you know, as part of that, we do see cycles of some crime types, increasing some decreasing
and we obviously USAP mechanism to ensure we've got adequate plans in place from the police and in partnership with our Community Safety team to to tackle that, so it's hard to go into any real specifics on that, but if you've got any examples that you've allowed me to have a look at Councillor edges, I'm happy to do that OK, thank you
right
conscious of the time.
just about quarter past 10 worlds, finance starting at page 2 9 3, Councillor corner, thank you Jaron this relates to the our KPI related to telephone service levels, it seems that this has got significantly worse in the last year and the reasons for that.
they do not seem to raise more questions than answers
Nick those reasons are around staff retention and Cobol, usually through the year. I am not sure we asked asked for the response from the I will put well hang on every year has bank holidays, so I don't see why that's the reason. Secondly, there's so much technology available now that we can use, for example, at base chat bots and I can be used to deliver better, more efficient customer service. I don't see why this is getting worse than it was last year. What is the Council doing to urgently improve this and find different ways of delivering effective customer service to residents
I'll try and cover that the the officer who was here to answer that question is unfortunately had to leave so.
we are looking at the customer journey as part of the change programme which will be receiving a paper on in September and Samuelsson I'll change Director Executive Director is responsible for customer Services, so she'll be here to be able to answer your questions I know that the service explores all options, I know that it is not alone in facing staffing challenges that is a challenge faced by CCW customer centres across London.
Councillor corner, thank you, thank you for raising that because it's of concern for I think everyone who has residents, who who can't get through, and hopefully we'll get the paper in October, okay.
right Francis, thank you transport any questions on the transport section of the KPIs.
Councillor Fraser, thank you had to take a liberty as its transport share, being here this evening and to raise a couple of points I know hopefully Alexa delegate for for from our Committee a couple of the points raised in here are about, and it's something I've experienced in my ward about some delays to EV charging points because of low low voltage in similar lamp columns. I know that those investigations have completed is that now resolve to allow that to progress forward and just weather, and we're rolling over the indicator on on streets, cycling storage saying whether that's is there a reason why we didn't quite meet that target this year
I'm I'm going to have to bring him Mr more on that and if.
as it's a transport area or alternatively, we can get an e-mail with those responses back to you, Councillor Fraser, if that's quicker.
I mean, given the timing, I think I'm happy with an e-mail response.
sorry, I was just going to come in but was limited, yeah e-mail is fine, just wanted to make sure that I was DMA due diligence okay, raising it moving to pose 3 3 on the Hoe.
I think that's the actions from Health, Canada, yes, OK right, are there any more quest Councillor, grow any more questions on what's left our pre, I got a bit of a whistlestop I'm trying to talk myself out of over the next item but I did there was 1.5 I wanted to raise that is very important in my where those anything else on this item sold.
on Page 3 0 9, it describes a shift away from an overall figure for a domestic violence to percentage of positive outcomes for domestic abuse and sexual violence. I completely understand the reasoning given for that, but can we have an assurance that we we will also be given the underlying numbers because it is important to know not just whether the percentage is being dealt with successfully, but whether the actual numbers of gang up or down and there's a danger with this shift that that will be masked,
thank you, Councillor, and also the should the trans, the change and indicators about trying to be more victims centric and an outcome focused, and it partially reflecting the fact that raw numbers on a very good measure of our success on domestic violence because of things like campaigns to increase reporting et cetera but to reassure is measure the raw numbers I think are do come for the CSP that CommunitySafety Partnership and the monitored and or operational basis and I think that is a nice KPIs focus on the outcomes and we've put her
but it would be ha both the relevant, but it would be helpful to have them combined that is otherwise it's very difficult to read it in isolation, given that those KPIs will be reported to different committee, could we take that, could you take that at yeah yeah, but I'm just saying it could we could you discuss that with the relevant people on the relevant Committee and including the Cabinet Member?
OK everyone any more questions on the KPIs,
Ms O'Connor, it's not a question, it's just an amendment on page, three to four. We have a target of 11,000, which is for visits to our leisure centres and swimming pools. That targets should read 14,000. That's a strengthened target. OK, thank you very much OK, given that we've been asked to note the content and approve the new corporate plan, and I'm going to comment this, I think the new KPIs and targets have been set out on page 3 0 3 to 3 40 and not on page 102 69 to 106. There's obviously a typo to help out were happy to note the overall results, but we will abstain on the changes to corporate okay.
do we need to?
abstain on be approving, which is approving the and then will you know the relevant bits for the page, OK and and also obviously the content of the report pages will be different as well, OK, excellent, thank you very much OK rise, we now move to the Council's
finance show, excuse me returns 20.
3 to 24 paper 1 8 6, Ms Murray lovely to see you, as you hide,

13 The Council's Financial Results 2023-24 (Paper No. 24-186)

as having had a trip round for to warehousing as well, I guess is there anything you'd like to say on this
before we go to questions, thank you Chair, so I think, probably with the time maybe not, I think you've all read the papers, say straight to questions if that's OK.
OK
right.
Hang on, I've gotta make notes
on the back of the Labour Group discipline procedures, Councillor, I'm bash first and then Councillor Graham.
thank you for the report, Mrs Mary, I'd like to congratulate you and your officers and Councillor of Ireland for making sure that last year's budgets, different budgets, we Kate, came in overall in credit and they've been very positively managed. I wanted to ask a question about table 2 on page 3 4 5, it shows quite a few others and overs, and I've the question is
are we getting better at forecasting budgets across different departments and committees year on year?
and it's great that we've come in with a surplus overall of nearly 5 million, but there are quite a lot of variation in in what we forecasts of, so can we now be doing and improving our forecasting excellent, thank you very much, thank you Councillor, so I don't think we're getting better or worse, I think what we're seeing is a much more volatile environment.
and over the past few years in particular, there are, there is so many service areas where there is volatility of demand, there's also complexity of need, and there is effectively market strain around some of our statutory provision, so we're doing all we can to
to forecast is accurate as accurately as we can. One of the things we've recognised in this paper that will bring to the relevant service committees in September is the latest in-year forecast, because we've started the year effectively knowing that some of the budgets that we've set won't be enough and will reflect that as soon as we can in the forecast
OK, thank you.
Councillor Graham
yes, it is true to park question on the what's going on with the dedicated schools Budget. First of all, I did raise briefly in the Premier the fact that the new government's policy is to
charge vat and business rates on the independent sector, which will include the third of special school places that are independent and obviously have knock-on consequences for their costs. Now, Ms Mrs Mary previously indicated that we might be able to recover the VAT element of that. However, clearly where independent special needs providers are having to charge 20% more to their remaining pupils', the in fees and where they are having to pay additional business rates on top, this is likely to affect the what the Council has to pay, even if our own placements are made exempt, so could could be no if there's been any estimate made of the likely implications in costs, given that you've already got or an overspend its increasing when we were supposed to be on a on a path to being removed
okay, thank you, Councillor, so to separate them issues there that will impact on a council in different way, so you mentioned vat being charged on school fees. As you know, the council is able to reclaim all vat and we've checked the headroom within our calculation and we've check the latest guidance from HMR see an wi thi n and that's OK we've got enough headroom, so that's one issue, the second issue around the impact of charitable status and the impact that might have that will come out in an increase effectively, I think in in base fees and that's the bit that we just don't know at the moment we don't know what the impact will be so
we will be able to do some modelling around business rates because obviously that's something that we've got some knowledge of, but beyond that and other increases in placement, costs will have to model as we go through, bring if there's any willingness on the part of the executive and or Cabinet Members members to lobby the government to exempt the independent special needs sector because this is going to result in taxpayers spending more and potentially those places being lost.
I
perhaps can cats sorry?
I can't quite see you Councillor on sort safe.
do we want to? Are you happy to to make a comment on that, Ms Mr Murray, or on councils, and I can just address at the the kind of point at slightly wider? We are doing lots of lobbying around the D SB overall position in the deficit position because one to its position is starting to kind of Creek. It seems which other councils have already reached a critical position, so as part of that lobbying it will be about the increased costs within DSP, of which, as you quite rightly said, this is a
definite risk that we need to we need to flag, so we can include it in our lobbying on that yet.
you able to include formally but or opposition to placing these additional costs on special needs, schools in the independent sector, because that would surely require political approval, I would hope that something that the Executive Members come back, but I'm not sure it's something you could do without their support.
I mean you, can I just comment at this point, obviously this is one of those situations where we haven't got the relevant Cabinet Member here and I think that perhaps the best they.
it's our yeah, my it might be our paper, but I think it would be something the Cabinet Member would have to take away, and I think a fair comment is to feed, we would we can feed Mrs Mary and presumably Councillor Ireland can pass out concern on which is clearly very understandable I can I have is a different question but very low chancellor, so as we've got something to offer,
object comment that the deficit Recovery Plan is due to be discussed at Committee in September and that will include provision for that at at this committee or its children's committee. Our children's committed outfall. I'm just one thing that is relevant for Councillor Island, obviously, if, if it's possible to get that there was a deficit Recovery Plan back on track, this doesn't become relevant, but otherwise, as paragraph 29 notes, the statutory override is due to expire and that deficit will come onto the council's balance sheet now, even if that statutory override is extended. Nevertheless, with the current trajectory, it will at some point end up on the Council's balance sheet
and I was hoping she could give a commitment that we would include that potential within the next budget, setting process so that we're not setting a budget, it looks balanced when actually, when this eventually hits us as it undoubtedly will we end up paying for it
Mrs Mary yeah yeah, so just to clarify the impact of the override ending effectively is on our reserves, isn't on our revenue budget, so of course will reflect that actually that gets picked up in the medium term financial strategy and we can obviously look at how we
presents that when we set the budget next year as well, yeah, OK, thank you.
have we got further questions on the paper, Councillor Graham?
yes, sorry, I was expecting somebody else to get a shot, but that's fine, so the
the obviously the outturn figures, as shown on pages 344 345, are rather different to those expected when we were looking at the outturn back in February and March,
there is clearly going to be a significant impact on the budgets for 24 25, which was set Cook quite will be a positive impact, but the point is there will be significant impact from LAF are then expected inflation from the pay settlement being lower than thought from the potentially the pay settlement that relates coming for being lower and from the higher Treasury income so,
Will we get a revised position on on on this year's budget, and when can we expect to see it right excuse me before Mrs Mary answers, I'm just going to say it's now half past 10 and the guillotine has fallen, so we will consider the remainder of the agenda as follows. We will continue our debate on the Council's financial.
on this paper and for a further 10 minutes, so until maximum of 10 minutes until 2040 and then we'll vote without debate on the remaining items for recommendation to the Executive and any proposed amendments.
okay and if there's any, if any, relevant Director of the Section F 0 1 5 1 Officer, the Head of Paid Service or the monitoring officer or their representatives, of the view that the committee must receive advice before the Committee votes, the name address they may address the committee, with my permission, members may ask questions for clarification, but only on any advice given by officers, but not debate it. Any other matters will be formally noticed will now continue and Mrs Mary could you hopefully you haven't forgotten the question in the middle of August, yes, thank you. So this reference in paragraph 33 to the current year's position
which, as Councillor ambitious rightly highlighted, is often difficult to predict, but we're we're reflecting already the
ITEM position in our forecast and will bring more detail to the Committee in September
can expect to see that information in September setting it out in its full context, but I'm happy with that package.
right thank you very much.
no more questions wow OK right, so we have been asked
to
note the contents of the report approved the General Fund.
variation in
appendix A note, the reserve balances in Appendix G okay, taking altogether or in parts
sorry.
all agreed everyone agreed, thank you very much, Councillors K the
items.
excuse me for the remaining two items and I get to them
sorry, thank you very much.
OK, we have a report about the

14 Revision to Disposals Policy (Paper No. 24-187)

a revision to the Wandsworth disposals Policy on,
our house owner houses that we owe other any amendments to this paper. Okay, let's move to a vote, then on items 3, a 3 bay. It's it's actually a change to 3 see. So if we could move to a vote on this, please vote in favour of the recommendations the Executive, please raise your hands, that's gonna be 5 is it looks like it anybody against those recommendations, OK, thank you very much. That's carried faggots to for the final paper is

15 Budget Variations (Paper No. 24-188)

is the
the revised figures, yes, I miss managed to miss that, so there's a review right just so you note, there is a revised revised budget papers, so paper 24 88, which is the budget variations there was a revised copy because there being a slight change of what has gone to housing already, okay everyone seen a revised copy.
excellent OK, so can we vote on the General Fund variations agreed in detailed in paragraph 3, plays everyone in favour of those raise their hands, thank you, that's 5, those against those variations.
nobody, the host, abstaining.
right.
right okay, okay, right, I think that brings us to the end of the meeting.
thank you, Councillors for your
ongoing can I say