Licensing Sub-Committee - Tuesday 4 June 2024, 7:00pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting
Licensing Sub-Committee
Tuesday, 4th June 2024 at 7:00pm
Speaking:
Agenda item :
Start of webcast
Share this agenda point
Disclaimer: This transcript was automatically generated, so it may contain errors. Please view the webcast to confirm whether the content is accurate.
which is now straining, thank you.
Thank you, Lord.
so I began them, so welcome everybody, so this meeting of the Licensing Sub-Committee, which is being held remotely, this hearing will be considering an application for a new premises licence for Anna Anna Toca and a Tokyo someone, I have to correct me on that later and an anecdote Anna Coulter and,
Hi, good evening, everyone high, it's another Gagai and a Tokyo thank thank you for that appreciated, Noel, you rescued me 1 7 8, Garrett Lane, London NSW, 18 for E D, which is in Wandle Ward now this is a this meeting is being held remotely or in a hybrid fashion, actually, because thanks to Councillor Birchall making the extra efforts to be in there, so please bear with us if there are any technical issues or difficulties. My name is Councillor MacLeod and the Chair of Licensing, Sub-Committee, and I now invite the members of the Subcommittee to introduce themselves are starting with Councillor Birchall
Yeah, good evening, everybody Andrews perpetual Aiken.
absolutely, on course.
However, I am Councillor America Trinity were and are under the same Councillor Macleod Battersea Park Ward Chair of Licensing.
and we also have a Mariana Ricci from Democratic Services.
and Laura Campbell and various other officers.
are available remotely, including Mr Bishop.
so before we begin
I'd like to ask applicants just because of where we're working in this format, I might might be more.
more conducive to introduce themselves, and I'm not sure because I can't I'm not sure who I'm looking at on-screen basically so of the who've got the applicants who is there representing the applicants.
communications officer yeah hi now summary from NTD consultants, I'm representing NHS co-chair as this evening.
before the Committee thinking, thank you very much, I believe we also have some.
Some residents in in the Medsin on show and I'm looking at marionettes, confirm that or maybe Laura yeah.
You can see why.
Welcome tonic evening, I'm here.
Welcome
thanks in some to Hygarth, John Juncker and above with applicant, is making an application for had a very welcome, very welcome and sideways.
High Chair and Committee Land Design, Sarah Taylor from Keystone, or I'm representing, Mr Dos Santos.
you are all very welcome and thank you for giving up some of your time to help us with these proceedings, it's appreciated.
Okay, so just we're all relatively Councillors at our hands, Mr smart.
Surrey roommates, Gatwick, Chair, we also have a Valentina, the applicant.
with us as well apologies, thank you, thank you for that thanks, Philomena.
OK, so because we're working in this former if you can remember to ensure that your your microphone is muted, and so while you're not speaking basically and you should only address the Sub-Committee when when called on, so we'll try and keep things orderly by going through the Chair each time if there are any sort of technical difficulties as long as as long as two of the sub-committee still in the meeting them with the we're still core if a Councillor falls out and has to rejoin,
We will try and catch them up on anything anything substantive that is dismissed but but we we can still carry on in that in that.
in that mode, what else don't need to tell you?
and keep by members, I ask you to keep your mobiles close to you in case in case Democratic Services need to call you during the meeting, but Bud.
no apologies, and so will I'm sorry I just ask about, are there any declarations of either pecuniary or or or other registrable and non-returnable interests in any of the matters to be considered at the meeting today?
I'm seeing it now from Rosemary the notion from Jack, thank you, and that's all from me as well.
Okay, so now we are now to consider an application for the new premises licence in respect of the premises known as and S and Toca cha Cheshire 1 7 8 Garrett Lane London S-W 18 4 E D, which is in Wandle ward,
the subcommittee will hear the case as a discussion, and the maximum time for each party to speak is 5 minutes, unless the Sub-Committee agrees to a different period in the circumstances where a particular case or speaker, the Sub-Committee will not normally allow cross-examination, so we're trying to keep the conversation linear have still remained
Bud of any questionnaire, so I'll move on, so to say what what we'll do now is, will I don't think it's Caroline Sharkie, actually I have, or I have Caroline shocking it, it's Julie Hopkins,
Pop up our vessel, sorry, I can see on the screen, yes, and I now invite the Licensing Manager and Julia Hopkins to to present the report.
hello.
in it.
and not car catchier limited, have submitted an application for a new premises licence at the above site. This is a new business and the premises have never held a premises licence in this location. The applicant originally sought a licence to allow the sale of alcohol for consumption on and off the premises from 10 am until 11 pm Sundays to Wednesdays and 10 am to midnight, Fridays and Saturdays. The provision of regulated entertainment recorded music from 10 am until 11 o'clock at 11 p.m. Sunday to Thursdays and 10 am to midnight, Fridays and Saturdays. The provision of regulated entertainment live music from 10 am to 11 pm, Monday to Sundays and late night, refreshment from 11 pm. Until midnight, Thursday to Saturday, only representations were received from two of the responsible authorities. The Council's trading standards officer and the Metropolitan police Licensing Officer, or the conditions requested by these officers, were accepted by the applicant to become conditions of the licence if, when granted and have been incorporated into the operating schedule in Appendix A of the report. As such, both representations were satisfied, no representations were received from any other excuse me of the of the response. Responsible authorities
The application was advertised as required under the legislation, this has resulted in the receipt of three representations from other persons following receipt of the representations, the applicant amended the operating schedule, with more detailed conditions to include those agreed with the police and trading standards.
Also removed was the officers' aspect of the application, which was part of the original application. This was amended to own cells. Only to seated customers with no vertical drinking also removed was re regulated, entertainment and late night. Refreshment activities, plus a reduction of hours for themselves from 10 am until 10 10 30 pm, Monday to Sundays with a new opening times from 10 am until 11 pm, Monday to Sundays. The revised hours for licensable activities and opening hours are laid out in Appendix B to the report. The application for is is within Wandsworth council's licensing policy guideline hours councils. I have no further matters to raise in respect of this application, but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you
For selling himself Prince so turned to the Committee now, any any questions at this stage for the officer.
Sooner no one, and I don't have anything either, so thank you. Thank you for now. What a I'd like to do now is invite the applicant to address the Sub-Committee. I believe, Mr Samuel, then is speaking on behalf of the applicant press, correct hello, they're welcome, so what you have now, so five minutes to explain why you know why you are applying for this licence and if you're able to to address some of the concerns, maybe some of their residents have Nicholas Sparks start when you like absolutely show yes, first, decorating everybody. I want to make it clear that the operating schedule submitted was after the applicant had submitted their application.
I am sure the committee are aware, sometimes the general public put in an application, but I can at least actually understand the implications, should not put together a proper operating schedule to show how the premises will operate and obviously like, and put away concerns from the local residents when they see an application submitted as to the one who submitted.
I am not surprised that.
Very serious concerns were brought up by the police, the Council and its local residents. Valentina then contacted me and basically said help, because I have submitted this application and everyone's shouting at me and I don't know what to do so weeping or licensing consultants. For the last 15 years we've operated in Wandsworth as well, so I am familiar with the area. We took a look at the application, we had two options. One was to withdraw the application completely and resubmit a new compliant application. However, if we had done that, obviously 28 days for the starting Life recurring, he would have had to pay more phase with that to re-advertise it in some of the cycle
So, after consulting with balanced say no, I suggested that we come along to the hearing today that prior to that, we coaching or a robust operating schedule.
might show that the operation is within
the guidelines laid out by Wandsworth.
As possible, but he mentioned, and hopefully that will allay some of the concerns I would like the committee to be aware, this is a very small premises.
the basic idea behind the business is that they're a wine shop
and they have a variety of good quality wines and have a good customer base.
However, a new ones come onto the market, they need to be able to make their clients aware, and I have a wine and cheese parties with their coaches, reports and things like this, and they are invited to come along, try the new ones.
and that is the basic principle of this business, however, I do understand the concerns of Mrs censors over security upstairs and having people standing outside his front door drinking smoking and talking about all sorts of
Rubbish dated to he can hear would it be, would be a concern forever, anybody.
conditions were also put on the licence to ensure that there is a situation Mr Santos has to cope with, there is now a dedicated or designated smoking area or a wife, and Mr Santos is too, and it's limited, so for people, as I said, the premises are very small anyway so it's limited for people as a smoking area.
and I have been informed in the last couple of days that an application was put in for a patent licence.
So that people can sit down.
rather than stand up and float well over the pavement outside, there is a designated area that piping licence has been granted and is limited to 4 p.
with regard to the hours.
I didn't feel that it was appropriate for a new business in that particular area to be operating to 12 one o'clock in the morning, so after consulting with Valencia now I suggested to him that it'd be better to keep the hours reasonable and so you can prove to your residents, your friends, the council and the police that he could operate the premises.
Within the guidelines sets out, he agreed to that, hence, the hours are reduced, there is no application now for regulate the tenants time outstanding in allow background music.
late night refreshments obviously been removed, because there is no, so it's not for 11 o'clock, so actually the application is before you is quite different to the one that has been objected to and quite rightly boy Mr centres in some of the other objectors. The only other point I would like to raise is that,
under the 2003 guidelines to someone to object on the grounds that they are a landlord or that they are an estate agent and its currency devalue, make it difficult for them to rent out those properties, I don't think it's really something for this committee to actually look at if there is now a resident.
lives upstairs.
who might feel that his sleep or is going to be disturbed that decides the other side of that?
Just finishing.
So that was really the foreign point is the most of the representation before you or about values of that property being diminished rather than the actual concerns should really concern is committee. Thank you very much
thankfully, however, since the summer, and I can say that Mr Bishop has his hand up
yes, I just sort of thought I'd mentioned that the representation from landlords does talk about the licensing objectives, so obviously you would be considering on that basis, not on the basis of anything to do with valuation of the property or the properties or whatever, but they do talk about licensee objectives and address each of them as far as they can.
and indeed Bud before sorry, Mr stand, ready to come back in again.
You're muted sorry yummy, your muse.
it has, as Mr patient says, refer to the licensing objectives below satellite distribution, to agree that it does also refer to the values of their property, and they have not been able to read them in the future, as I just said, this is lubrication that's considering that the application based on the licensing objectives,
and the other criteria that are a licensing application has to consider, yes, it will not be looking at valuation and things like that.
But for thank you, OK with, I think, one, and thank you for that summary, the I look to the committee now, do you have any initial questions?
Councillor virtue.
Can I?
He needs to take, sorry, I'm sorry, I'm relying on Lords look after me here.
Just explain what you were talking about your clients being selling being a wine merchant and having a wine shop, so so is this premises actually selling wine or, or is it selling wine to people to drink there on the premises I got slightly confused on this one could you please explain more clearly?
sir, very good question or purpose is to sir wine as off-licence, and also for people to sample the wine or new ones on the premises.
So will it be working as an off-licence until 11 o'clock at night?
yes, as well as so, for example, somebody comes in, they try to work and they like it, and I want to take a crate home or are taken to Butlers Heiton they can take, they can purchase the wall and take it home, so it's it's not a wine bar as such now it's
it's an off-licence, a wine merchant where you can sample the goods.
Before purchasing absolutely that was the whole idea behind the the patient is to bear have
and new ones, a hypocrite price who can come there have something to eat, coterie of, or cheese wine, try the wine they like it, they can buy and take it home, most of the events they've had the are events for for people that have been invited. However, to have that solely as events I think would be restricting their business.
quite a lot, but it's not a wine bar per person, it's very small premises, how many people do they expect to be able to have seated inside?
No more than 16 to 20.
Thank you.
Councillor Mayorkas.
Thank you Chair.
How can you just explain how they have already been events if the licence hasn't been granted?
there have been vents which improvement notices Councillor, thank you.
did you have any other questions Jack I I, I've got somewhere, I think just for maybe for my own understanding so?
the, and maybe this is this will be a question for further respondents afterwards, but the the video footage that we've LA, that we've seen that we just saw that's people milling around outside, which doesn't seem to fit what you've just described, so I'm just trying to understand what what's happened in already, what is it we're looking at their dismissive.
yeah, yeah Councillor, I think what's happened up until recently was that there were no tables and chairs and cycle people sit there.
Valentino put his hands up said.
this week that he was really controlling outside the way he should and didn't really understand.
What his responsibilities.
were and how to go about things, he's obviously been educated since then.
hence, he put in the application for the seating area at site.
We went through the operating schedule that we were proposing for him, about keeping people away from Mr Santos's front door, reducing the paperwork sites for people alcoholic drinks and crosses are not allowed outside the premises.
People are not allowed to stand up and drink, any alcohol served must be served to the table to seated customers so on and so forth. So it is a very difference situation, Councillor, that you actually saw most videos, in fact just that I mentioned the video says in some of the it's very difficult because they are standing quite close to miss sentences though, and those bring barrows are very sensitive to sound. Hence you can be everything people are or sign, however, Simpson cost out by and did not speak in you to hear they were quite loud as well, so I think I have a little bit of an unfair
Appreciation as to how loud those people were or were not, but that is not an excuse that is just an observation on wai-Po, thank you sorry, just just a small amount that then, because what we were saying, I mean I saw a guide that had a wine glass in his hand and you know he was clearly.
We got that from inside, I'm assuming he didn't turn up with his own wine glass so so.
it's the case that people can sample the wine inside and outside for a fag and a chat with the wine is that that seems to be what's happening is, or is that still the case?
absolutely not, and as I mentioned before, Valentine I put the application in.
But he wasn't aware of what raised Abou Diaby boosts the police and the Council would expect from an operating schedule.
And so some of the things are that people are not allowed to leave the premises with, of course, wine standard, so at their next-door neighbour's house and my conditions in themselves.
anybody said that Coe must be seated.
and served their type boo, so this lots of the concerns that Mr Santos had, I think, at the time.
We're extremely relevant now and they will not be, and I note that Wandsworth has a very strong enforcement team and I feel that if balancing I did not conduct most premises in the way you would expect then.
I think you'd expect to see me again.
I know that will be the case he does understand now
as a responsible operator, how he seeks, but he is expected to run those premises.
I as one.
I have confidence that he will be able to do that.
Thank you.
I can say I can say your hand.
Ms Taylor, what I was gonna do first, just dysfunctional, ensure the Sub-Committee were got their questions out of the way, and I will give some spice for residents, but what I'm going to do, as well as asking residents I'm not sure how it dates but gave us space horizons so that then we can really get into you, so your cherishes will not ignore in you, no, don't you there
I am looking at the Councillors, Councillor virtue.
And yes, I was just wondering how Mr Jeremy emerged at how you pronounce it, if your annual, if you've only got room for 16 to 20 people.
how are you what you're going to do with the extra ones that come in, how are you going to to juggle the demands of your?
You know your wine bar with the with the space that you've got.
Before I my councillors are said to you, the people will only be served alcohol if they're seated.
So.
if there are 26 and there are 20 people, then the 21st person we will not be allowed into the premises, and he wouldn't be Sadako because you do not see to it, so that's how the premises will control.
I would hope you know plenty of customers, but they are restricted to people seated.
They cannot push Serco standing up, I will drink now cousin, but if he's sort of invited people to you know, a launch of his new Beaujolais accept his Italian, so it'll be something different, I expect and.
And you know, you have to invite 50 people if you want 10 people to come.
it could be a tricky situation for him and I I think, depends on as I mentioned, it has his customer base and if he's producing a launch and a new type of wine that you know some of these customers would like he will envy our customers and expect them to say yes we're coming or now we know.
I, when that list gets not 50, but maybe 25, that that will then be closed off.
all would suggest, and I would have suggested, those supervision.
And it's Blyton, we obviously I haven't put it as part of our approach because I don't really think it's really simple to ask small premises that have the conditions and a robust conditions that are on their to pay extra to have a to supervise if it became an issue.
then, and that's something that.
and I would suggest to him that he looks at this moment in time, I think it's fair to give him the opportunity to operate within the conditions on the operating schedule and are, as I said, I'm I'm I'm sure he will.
I thank you, and I can I can't say I think you're nice, Mr J can say Janke, and the Eurostar waits in terminal side the same, as I said, certainly tailored I'm just going to finish the questions on the subcommittee before opening up to residents Councillor Lucas,
thanks Chair yeah, I mean I just.
I want to make sure everyone's clear, as I think that's probably a pair of confusion about what this will be one like there's similar black, I can think of a similar.
Shop location in Balham, which is like a wine wine shop that sells wine and has tastings in that kind of thing not to be read by. I feel it may be a bit disingenuous to suggest that the only people that are going to come are people that have been invited to try certain wine or that they just wander in it. Because I imagine that, like if I was walking past this place on a sunny summer's evening, I might just think 0 pop in there for a drink, so I think just for everyone to be Clare
That's my impression, if that's not the case, then please do correct me, but I think maybe it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that passing trade won't be part of the operation of this business as a wine bar.
As well as a shop
Hence the script question good observation, however.
I don't think it will be say, Sumich dependency now who is sunk his life savings into their premises to say to him that is gonna be restricted only to people invited under a private party, however.
The measure is that it is restricted to 20 people.
So if he had 16 people that it invites it and we're sitting down of four people turned up, and so can we come in.
It has four seats or tables available where they can be sated, I think we are very unfair for them to turn them away, let's be honest, NCP yeah, that's not my suggestion by my question as Ian or friends are walking down Caroline on a sunny summer's evening and we see this place we can just pop in for a drink we can sit down and have a drink that that is the that's that's accepted.
yes, yeah, yeah, OK, so it is clear, I think it's just to be clear and it is not just private events, not just grand abstentions and it does not prescribe events next. It's it's an on-and-off licence. Applica, yes,
yeah, yeah,
thank you, thank you, Councillor virtue,
yes, I think from reading and hearing what the residents' problems are, it is the potential noise outside and and also smoke, if you've got full people, smoking our size, and it's a very small area that they can be.
I mean, it's quite a small shopfront, isn't it, I if I had my bedroom above it, I would be a bit upset by the smoke coming into my bedroom on a summer's evening and
And the noise of people having a wonderful time will probably disturb me and, and I can see that this is, this is the main issue for this licence, not the fact that 20 people are going to be sitting inside and enjoying the wine, I think the main problem is going to be with what's going on outside.
Yes, however, I don't know if you're aware next door to the premises is another licensed premises which is a Thai restaurant.
Writer right next door that has a much larger
outside area
smoking area that's I couldn't tell you might be clearly can can help us with that, one of how many people they have says Snell sorry, but I can tell you it's a lot more than for so.
Yes, it might be a small area and I thought we'd be contrite about this, but the area itself is quite big sorry for paperless smoking outside that smoke has not been funnelled directly up into somebody's battery.
and
Yeah, but I think it would be fair summit to make their point, but I I've just got to quote before performing residents not got a quick question as well, so be despite about on outside smoking area being away from Mr sentences, property you've also spoken about the outside seating area that's away from Mr Santa's property, all in quite a small property your signs, so I know she's saying the same areas that the smoking area is also the outside seating area next year.
Can it be transferred to actually two titles with full chairs?
Okay, so you, yeah I'd like to write sets, I'm just trying to get it's not like you've got a group of people outside smoking and then you've got a group of people outside those restaurants you know St Michael's Church as in a coded of area away from Mr Santos's.
Front doors, he's not inconvenienced.
I am currently in a natural is his house, I can say thank you for that, so what I want to say in an answer they said that they say that the questions from the residents are, this is open up to you, but I will outside that I am don't the the the next part of this maintenance is is basically about your opposition to this, so I you are all going to have time to
To fully say what you need to say and respond to to to the applicant, but I can see your hands up now.
O I I know in inferring is the Mr Gain case and this was at first, but Sarah Lewis's was up and then she put it down, so I'll go to her first if that's OK, I can I just just make sure that,
Residents now are certain that this is for any questions for clarification on anything that you've had already from the yes, that's right.
Thank you Chair, and thank you, marionette and Chair apologies to raise this now, but I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't eating into the five minutes for the presentation and just on the on sales of sales, and what this premises is points and I received a document which I passed to Mr Dos Santos on the 20th of May with the revised operating schedule which he'd got. The new conditions in that document mentions that this application is now for an sales only, so that would preclude any off sales any wine being taken away from the premises anybody sitting outside with any alcohol. So I just wanted to clarify if this is still on and off sales or if this is on licence, only, because clearly there are two very different things and an off-licence would also allow customers to sit outside potentially with drinks, whereas it on licence only would not
Do so, so I just wondered if we could clarify that, please, thank you.
thank you, or are you able to Mr solar, yes?
as I mentioned before there, the idea behind the application was for people to come through the war, and if they're lucky they can park and cycle there is no provision in the Act where an off-licence is allowed to give.
spice to somebody buying alcohol and then drinking it on the premises, because it is it's a conflicting thing, so I understand the point to salaries rising, however, the off-site use is for people who have been on the premises, they're not one that can buy and take a hug.
That was the idea behind it, that was why it was, but it should have been on and off, but I said it was a difficult one through the application, because it doesn't really give you the an application, does it give you the option so,
that was why it seems to be ambiguous, but if I could clarify that with the the Committee and Sarah that that is the idea behind it, that somebody will come along assigned, so they try a glass of wine, I'd like it and I can buy a box and cycle.
thank you, I'm if I'm incorrect and I've done and say now is there in the wings, if he has anything to add to that, maybe he, as the operator will.
yet to add anything to what I've already said, hi Jaeger, doing perhaps the only thing I wanted to added is that.
a lot of people are working in also for the for the few dishes that we make, so there is also some food involved, it's not just wine, all around, we do charcuterie board, we do parmesan and we do some lassana, we do some specials with some homemade cake and bread, so you know core part of the business I'd like to be the some food as well and is meant to be a place for families for lovers for the community which I am part of I believe in here,
In offshore Road for 80 years now, this is why I feel at home and.
As I also told the Mr J P Wymott last week in Tesco, where we have adjusted the the operating schedules.
you know, because we want to get to a compromise, we don't want to make a war or nobody has to win or lose.
whichever the condition can help the community, the residents and everyone to to be a match with the area, two to 15.
I'm willing to to do it, I've been doing this job for 15 years, so you know, I think it's something.
I know I can do, and this is our been, you know, having the alcohol licence for a while, sorry, sorry to interrupt you, Mr Mr Dromey yeah, that's that that's great here, but, sir, that's perfectly just add in Adamson some some detail and so too to what Mr Somerville said, Mr Bishop, did you have your hand up for some clarification?
I think at this stage I'll just wait and advise you in deliberations or do it later on, once we got through the questions, let's do the pelicans first, thank you okay.
Mr Genki GNC in a high evening.
most of the points Lara one of the Councillor and the the other person for a county is named, and I think Jack the they picked it up already, but because we're talking about this events.
I ran pubs for the last 15 years and the licensee myself, in Chelsea and Kensington Borough and having doing or doing an event, I know it's very difficult and if the restriction is there for 15 or 16 or 20 people, I don't know how they're gonna.
Maintain that.
Noise or the smoke like a lava said before or people going in and out, so I really have no idea how they're going to maintain that, so I don't know what events we are doing, what the one representing soil if I'm wrong with 16 people so in my opinion,
To lighten the asking there, it doesn't really fit for that shock.
So what for what are we here there, it doesn't fit at all?
but Putloe.
I understand that your question, I mean, to be honest, if I mean that the running of the business and whether the licence is the right one for them is kind of up to them, it's more about whether it's going to cause.
Cause harm, cause disturbance to you to you as residents so.
yeah, I mean yeah, there are the sorts of therapies that the system of one of my concerns is how they're going to manage all these things that because at the minute it looked like.
the hour the serving of alcohol is 11 o'clock, so it is, it is like it is like a pop licence in my eyes.
exactly like a pop licence, I think, sorry, I catch up, we might like giving Iranian public representation objectors representation time yeah, so if any questions sorry, yes, as doesn't say, it was very, very natural because there is a space, as I say fit for you guys to to lodge your complaints, but is there a question that you may have for for the applicant?
there doesn't have to be, I am just wondering if there was an extra post-truth age I just wanted to tease, to say, might be one if I could yeah.
I'm happy to go through with you until the end, OK, wonderful fact, thank you.
Ms Summers, I see your hand up, there is that the runway, just and right decoy is nothing like a pub.
A licence is now vertical drinking, people have to be seated, so I don't, except that going there is just like a pub, because it's absolutely no.
okay, that's noted, thank you.
OK, so I'd like to now come unless anyone's got any more questions for the applicants,
thank you.
OK, so I'd now like to to.
come to those who are making representations.
I am trying to work out what I say, so there's three people here, you don't have to to be honest, yeah yeah, what we don't need to do is sort of repeat the same thing over and over again.
but in theory, have a maximum five minutes to to explain why you think this is an issue, as I say we we are, we are, there are issue, there are points that we are looking at, there are clarifications that we've already saw, so we don't really need that but just an idea why why this application is something you particularly oppose even with I'd say, even with the changes that have been made.
I hate how you feel about this application now, I'm not sure how we want to this, I mean I think it might make sense.
year, equal social care and Sarah First, his five minutes slot, must be shared if that I can to stick to you answered, sir, with, and yes, I can show that that's the that makes sense, I mean, I don't know if you've spoken to each other or know who wants to say wow but,
if we start with Eugene PMA, and if you are sorry, I was going to say Taylor and unless I let her speak on behalf of single, coherent awareness, if she needs to brilliant, thank you very much, and sharing commitment is good evening. Everybody and churches, too, became where I am conscious that the videos I'd submitted the video footage to you, I think some of the Ring footage we could hear quite clearly. I personally couldn't hear some of the other parts very well. If committee services want me to share and those files so that Committee members can access them directly from the one Dr, I'm happy to do that during any deliberation, so if that would be helpful, please let me know, because something that does demonstrate
What I'm about to talk fast, and so in terms of the application chair was received, Mr Samaras alluded to the fact that there was not much detail on there, which is fair enough. That happens sometimes, but understandably, did raise concerns for Mr Dos Santos and Mr de Santos properties that are above this proposed premises and he lives there. He works there, there are plans for his film site to move in with him. The intention is that this will be his family home. So quite understandably, there have been
some concerns in terms of this application. You will see Chair and Committee members, if you listen to those videos that we've submitted, we were in the fortunately unfortunate position that there have been temporary event notices, so we've been able to get a snapshot of what this premises will look like in advance of any new licence being granted, and the result of that chair is that I've been able to share some video footage review that shows the structure of the building and how sound travels through that structure, and that's both noise from people, because there have been people in their working to renovate the premises, and Mr De Santis has been able to hear voices of only a few people, that's caused a disturbance, but also music as well, that that's happened in the premises already and his evidence by that. Video footage that that is causing quite the disturbance to Mr de Santos and that throughout the day and in terms of the structure of the building Chair, Mr De Santis and I agree that the structure of this building in its current format, is not conducive to licensed premises being in there, that's either through noise from people or noise from music, and although planning is not relevant Chair, I just wanted to mention that a previous planning permission did suggest that an acoustic report
it was carried out before any sort of noisy activities may take place in there in terms of the application and any pre consultation, I know that it is not a requirement for the applicant to engage with residents before, but there was none of that until there was sort of any inclination that a representation would be submitted, the very first conversation that took place was not very pleasant and conversations that took place subsequently were more convivial and then obviously Mr Samara was instructed and we got the conditions which had been amended now. My client is very grateful that the applicant has gone to the trouble, to instruct a consultant and that we've been given a substantial set of conditions. However, Mr De Santis is still concerned that there is no actual substantive measures in there, that he feels will be effective in present a preventing any noise nuisance, and so that is something chair that I'm going to be asking you to consider very carefully this evening and in terms of music know, as you can see, that on the video footage you'll be very mindful Chair and Committee members, as am I that although entertainment is deregulate it, if an alcohol licence is granted
Regulated entertainment in the form of Lavant recorded. Music can take place unregulated if there are less than 500 people in there, and the bar is open for the sale of alcohol between 8 am and 11 pm, and that would mean share that if this licence is granted that the applicant can do live and recorded music, as is his right, but unfortunately, as we've evidenced and been able to evidence through the videos that will have an impact on Mr de Santos and quite a significant impact on him, to the only way for us to avoid that is for this licence to be refused all very, very robust conditions to be put on to the premises licence if it is granted, which I'll talk to you about in a moment and you've heard about an external area, I think we're all a little confused, it's probably fair to say about on sales of sales and what exactly is happening at the premises, but I was really constant to hear that there's a pavement licence has been granted for up to four people now whether or not people choose to drink out there, whether they're able to, and whether you choose to grant that permission Chair Councillor virtues already alluded to the fact that people smoking outside this is going to be an issue and we can see from the footage on the ring Dobell that we've got four people standing outside smoking and the noise was quite substantial and this is even at 9.00 at night.
again sharing humanity to grant this application, are we asking you to look in terms of numbers and what is actually allowed outside, we've got that unfortunate position where the Health Act means we can't smoke inside, so people have got to go somewhere, but again that's got to be balanced with Mr DeSantis right to peaceful enjoyment of his property.
I think it's fair to say that music is the main constant but also dispersal as well people, smoking outside how people will disperse away from the premises and again, although we are appreciated that the hours have been reduced, we've still got a closing time proposed of 11 pm which means that people will be dispersing after that and although we've got quite a lot of conditions again we don't really have anything substantive in terms of how that will be managed or how people worried about whether it's five minutes.
Frank, thank you.
The Jew did you have or did you have any more to say on the entire outlook to the end, where you start really Chair just just that they are or have outlined the the concerns that we have just to summarise music noise noise from people both inside and outside the premises and what the main concern is if this licence is granted that music is unregulated and the only way for us to come back in and,
Rectify that oath that not be available for review. That is quite a burden on Mr de Santas to have to continually complaining and apply for a review, and so, for that reason, Chair, we'd be asking you to refuse and if you're not minded to do that to very, very carefully, think about conditions and we would be thinking of things such as a detailed acoustic report, that's that's carried out by an independent contractor and the measures that are suggested and that are implemented, and that involves being inside Mr de Santos's property to really assess the impact of it.
Thank you very much so that actually that's super helpful.
OK before sons.
And we are going to go to the Committee over the shoulder, the other residents' groups by surprise me five minutes in total, and you know, I'm unaware that that we've gone over that, but I really don't want to do anything that closes down residents' opportunity to say so bring up issues.
Mr Corre, or almost the census did was, has has, as Ernest Taylor precisely summed up your concern, there was there anything else you think that we should be, we should be considering.
I'm OK on my side, thank you for thank you, I think I just want to let Sarah talk before I before I just take this one thing that wasn't clear to me, so I didn't ask the question and off of the representative of the applicant before, but the representative just mentioned, for you mentioned two things. He said that I'm having to chase tables outside there only be two tables with to chase one each for the last month and a half there's been a two month has been a table right outside my door. It is impossible to have it's a very small French shop.
It's impossible to have two tables in front of that shop with two chairs, each with an art being right outside as I walk at my door, so just as just for clarity, because that I feel that was just a misrepresentation that the area has been tabled at tables and chairs outside the last month and be it will actually impact me it's incorrect especially incorrect it points impact me if I will cut Maddow secondly, that is a question,
The representative, the applicant's representatives, mentioned that a property next door has licence, that is quite a significant outside area that people already drink and smoke outside, can you please clarify which property is talking about?
the name of that of that business, as I think he suggested there was a Thai restaurant that sort of stats from my recollection.
so so that if you can change it, but that's what I understood as well and no one sets out, so I've never seen people sit outside the Thai restaurant and people do not sit stand and smoke outside a Thai restaurant, I've been living there since 2016, there has never been a noise come out from the Thai restaurant people, don't stand outside, I don't drink. I've only recently learned that there was a application or call application, which I was not aware of, but that the it's just made it sound as if there is already an area outside that people are sitting right next to my property and smoking one and then hence it'd be acceptable and that unfortunately again is factually untrue. So I just want to clarify that sorry, but thank you very much that that's very helpful and I can't say your hand, Mr Jonathan, but what I'm going to hear is
here we are focusing on the reasons, and I will come back to you to respond to some of the questions that the they are coming up at the moment I wanted.
to to to question them, so I do see your hand, I'm not ignoring you, Councillor meerkats.
Thank you, I've got three questions in class or I.
What was the outcome of any of the noise complaints so far should I do all the them in a row yeah, my Emmy makes sense, actually J Davies signed them all, and then we can come back Alan I got to them individually, I'll OK excuse me, I keep on rescuing that while one side of the site says,
so what was the outcome of their noise, complaint or complaints that have been registered, etc who made the complaints was that you, Mr senseless?
Recorded and yes, yes, I did so and at the time and the noise complaints I,
I felt that I didn't go down scares to discuss with the applicant straight away.
I raised the complaint because of another lack of understand the process works that I can ask the applicant to Peter and the music done, but I've had experience before of loud neighbours that you can ask for the music to be turned down and the very next day garage backup so I did choose the official routes of off of laying a complaint with the hope that someone would come to my property and just pay witness to the noise that does come through the property.
And I did speak to you again, not only I don't want to sit down and have conversations that yes, I, or whoever you, but I did have a discussion with with with Valentino
and again, I am sorry, I did add anything I just and also just deny if there was one out from that compliant host, so no, there was no outcome from that complaint from the concert was that it was just but it was logged and I asked if someone could please come over and listen to it and I just said Look if it happens again I must call again and I can I get them to come out and well thank you.
my second question,
was eventually, as Sarah you mentioned, one condition that we that if we want to reject, say one condition would be the acoustic situation.
You highlight, maybe some other conditions recommend. Thank you for that, Councillor May, or Chris Sam's conscious of time, who is going to cover it in summing up, I think, are our stance, Mr De Santis, and stance mainly because of the music is that we would ask for this to be refused yeah, because there is potential for such an impact. I think if you were minded to grant, we would be looking for conditions such as an acoustic report should it should be independent,
acoustic consultant and that would fully assess the impact of any noise from both customers inside and outside the premises, but also any potential music noise in the impact that would have and some obligation for measures that are suggested in terms of mitigation. In Mr de Santos's property to be implemented by the applicant to.
The other concern that we got was about the condition limiting the number of people outside to fall, which Councillor Bedford had already picked up on it, as I said in my submission you can see on the window belt at 4.00 is really too many that does have an impact still people are gathering outside and having discussions.
any more than one is obviously going to incite conversation between people, because that's what people do, particularly when they consumed alcohol, and so we would ask the committee to look at that the other one that had mentioned Councillor Milke's was a dispersal policy and there isn't really anything substantive in the suggestion conditions from the applicant in terms of how people will be dispersed.
and we were mindful at the late hour and then the final one, the sort sorry, could you repeat the last one?
that was a dispersal policy, we that we don't have anything substantive in the suggested conditions about how people will be dispersed and the final one, with a restriction on tables and chairs outside and committee members, are mindful of the fact that there is a government consultation about of sales and and that point is moot at the moment in terms of the the easement that we have during COVID and what will happen in the future with that but I think allowing tables and chairs outside I say this in the full knowledge that a pavement licence has been granted.
but I think allowing tables and chairs outside whether that be for smokers, whether that be for people to drink outside, will just encourage people to linger, and I'm very mindful of the fact that this is immediately beneath Mr DeSantis as both his library window, it also respiratory went down as well.
Thank you.
Printed a photo question ready for messages, such as please don't say, this question is wry or difficult. I guess this business obviously is. If there are cafes now proposed to be a wine bar or business, would you be comfortable with, if not, you know, yeah, it is there a kind of business that you would be comfortable wiping under your property. Bearing in mind, I appreciate that's not an ideal situation in the first place,
Thank you, Councillor, I think that's a fair question, I think it is a very fair question, the the cafe had had no problem with Councillor, there was, there was noise from the cafe, they were banging the you know when you you got an espresso and you take the a capsule new package, you know there was happening at 8.30 in the morning, I didn't complain, they they they, they did, have they once or twice at a chair outside and people sitting outside craving coffee at, I didn't complain, it was close to the door and it wasn't people smoking. It
I didn't complain because I do support small business I'm not sure in someone's business I'm not sure to try and keep my flat or to myself but the livable conditions or it's impossible to to for me to be able to relax live have any peace in Marfil walls when there is a potential for music or they are not just pretend to when it's music being played from 10 in the morning through to 11 o'clock at night and that gathers large crowds of people that's effectively a wine bar is is in.
As Harefield is the one thing that I don't know how many live with it, it's going to that really is going to impact my property, my life, my my safety of off of my home, so Café this is go along the High Street if this zebra was a Tesco below me what would I have an issue that in fact,
if they were making noise up at 11.00, a compliant but atoned for it is that it's a licensable activity of people being inebriated or people making noise that's you financially motivated with lots of licensed premises, to play music, to keep keep people entertained and the noise volumes that come out of a licensed premises especially after people have consumed alcohol all the way to 11 o'clock at night is something that I'm really struggling with and that's really going to negatively impact me but sorry I might have spoken too much I apologise, I really appreciate that banking but that's sort of helpful thank you.
I put some questions, but, Councillor Purcell, did you have anything else for the residents before?
thank you very much Chair now I don't think I have any more questions spotted.
Thank you, I mean I did just just I mean, I find this useful to hear something he said alarms me, he said that the first.
Communication or first interaction with the LA will develop with the licence holder or the applicants, it was bad that there was a bad outcome, so that decided with more, was there an argument, what what what happened that was bad?
Some cloud at that's not please understand why it's so answering this question is difficult for me because I don't want to put someone else in a bad light, I understand I can give you the circumstances around that discussion.
our efforts. If you don't like it's relevant, that's fine, I guess it is relevant and again it's difficult because I don't want to put anyone in a bad light or anything, but let me let me try and explain without offending Mr Valentino, I went into a shop with Murphy on-site to after submitting the objections have passed the date. I went on the Tuesday and the shops closed on or on the Monday because I just wanted to sit down face-to-face, introduced myself and explained that look, I'm your neighbour, but I have objected, and it's our tried to explain that it's not a personal thing, but I need to protect my home. This is my home, this is really going to impact me and I don't know how we get through this as humans after threats in his business, but at the same time is not personal
Mr Valentino did invite me to sit down and have a coffee, but upon hearing that I'd objected.
I suppose contempt for the rest of the conversation was what was in our content of myself and McMahon and Mafi on site.
to a point where our party was getting a bit aggressive about, but the fact that I had objected or did explain the reasons about the noise about the fact that I'm you know there's a noise, but it's the answer was it's background, music and the representative said the word background music again early on, which which you know, it's exactly it's background, music, so how can it be bothering you what is bothering me if you came upstairs you could hear it and you understand it's background music where, had you consider background, music impacts me
But I eventually, the the the Ms Vanity, I did ask what was my point of being if I'm not willing to discuss the objection, I said it's not about discussing it set up pinafores not not to agree to anything, but our teachers want to introduce myself and talk about it. At that point, Mr Valentino Galloway, you got up and just effectively walked away, leaving myself and my fiancée in his shop not knowing what to do, so we had to get up and leave that anxiety that that's caused me since is how can I you know what what the so that's the one side of Mr Valentina, I have seen another side. It was very shortly afterwards in automata, but he just found out that his application had been rejected and then he was very open to discussing and how can we do things? Unfortunately, I've seen two sites, the applicants have seen the side way. There has been disregard for me and my concerns when they went out when there was no threat of losing the business, and there was the side of where we can. We can make things work, we can do this, although which sides the real side, but it's the anxiety that I've got, that I can go back to my flat if a licence has been granted and expect the applicant to,
be hunky-dory and I can support him.
but I have little confidence in that.
Look, it's.
This is difficult for me, I don't wanna, I'm not a bad person, this is not personal or just I've got some very real concerns, and that's that's really the point of this. It's not to I'm pretty sure it must have an interior at a shop down the road. I've been in the area for 17 years, those fields also my home are to support local businesses. I'd probably be in a shop, unlike wine, I'd probably been shot or taste, something the wine myself, and this is difficult because I do you repair relationship after this kind of thing happens when I'm when yes, I'm threatening his his newly established business
Below me, yeah, fine, thank you that that's helpful, I think that's useful that's useful for us to know that that happened, so thank you very much.
I, I think that's probably OK, sorry, I guess one of our experts on speaking to you, Mr Santos in particular, I am just one in general, then so I know it might be reiterates in what Mr Agnew has already said, but the the outside disturbance that we've seen on the videos if that were in this place that the this place that we've been told the new outside and we have no but only have no say in this outside licence that's been sorry outside planning, I think that's that's happened, that's not. That's not this committee
Do you or you are told reassured by our Quay, that's over there I mean I don't know enough about the geography to know, OK, that is on the other side of the shops, so that won't actually affect me or that's still the same place does or does not reassure you at all.
Qatar don't see how I don't think, I think it's if you if you saw this the the the the shopfronts along the road.
Maybe it's four metres wide, maybe 5 metres maximum with a door entrance, it's probably about a metre and a half wide, so you only really left with 3 metres of space where you can have two tables and two chairs.
One of which would be right at the entrance of the of off, as you walk out, the the the the the the business and the next one will be right next to my front door. There is no other area, it is right outside the shopfront, it is right below moorland window and my bedroom window, which sits above that there is no, it's not side areas don't on another side of a shop and literally is only and right outside. I understand, and that doesn't reassure you then at all if, instead of what you have at the moment, which is, it seems to me people sort of milling around there, once they've left the shop, if what you have various just people sitting down, you know in the way that's been described. That doesn't reassure you at all
that's well worth more of what we've witnessed is have already seen, people sit outside. I know Mr Samaria has said, that is the key. That has never been, that there hasn't been tables outside, I've got photos of tables being outside, there's been tables outside for the last three weeks, a table and outside next to my doors, actually been moved away from the properties front door and put my next to my front door so that people, if they are smoking, they're smoking next to my front door, not the interest in the property. I don't get assurance that
My feeling is that you've now got two tables for for people to sit down you, you're encouraging people to sit outside that can now sit outside and smoke if a large terrace are and drink, you're not on a summer's day, the property is small, you are going to get people constantly still sitting outside again it's my opinion but I've seen it happen already
I would be very support, you ask my opinion, but not thus appreciate an ex-cop yeah, I appreciate that, thank you.
okay, I can see your hand, Mr summary, I am looking to the Committee to see if they have any questions for residents. What I'm going to do now is get back to the applicant, give them an opportunity to respond to some of the things that have been said and then then allow for one last grab. I really do want to make sure that that everyone's issues, Mr Bishop
Sir Chair.
sorry to attract, is Mr J and C gonna be making a representation at dinner?
my understanding was that he wasn't, but you are very free today or is that right, Mr I think, as I announced, Mr Corre yeah, no, no, I thought yes.
Sorry, thank you finally, okay, okay so.
Where am I now sorry I take some, Mr Mr summary, I invite you to solve no in massive data, but respond to some of the things that have been said there.
yeah, thank you, Chair, I've listened to what the concerns are and.
Generally, the concerns have come up with regards to the original application.
Because Sarah said it was.
it's very light on conditions with regards to mutate the outside area inside area, what people could do, but it couldn't.
I would put to the committee since.
I had the conversation with Valentino
And I put your practice scheduled to him and him and you'll say on the front pages, the approach Chadwick clearly states, there is no regulated entertainment, there is no provision for standing, but drinking and all the things things that have been put there were really all I think is a bit disingenuous to say the balancing out isn't interested in in working with his neighbours because he really is but,
these sectors always arise, as was said to me, what became a hit quite a lot of money into his business, and he obviously felt that he was being given the opportunity to run his patients, however.
he is now clearly the understanding how he's got to run his business and the restrictions that he has on operating that business, and when we talk about background music, every restaurant prepared for music and there are limits that I can add by complaint.
I think before.
It probably was a background music, but he wasn't aware of what he could earn and could not do is very much aware now.
He doesn't play through speakers or anything.
so I think that the noise level that Mr centres suffered would be greatly reduced, and I know that if, if Mr centres, the census is
disturbed, I know as a balanced say now, and he will have a reasonable conversation about it.
because Valentino is very, very aware that
This committee has the power to not brought this licence and or in the future have it back and take his licence away, so he is very much now he understands that surrogate mentioned Sarah, you mentioned about.
Regulated entertainment between 8 and 11 o'clock, and that he has.
it would be allowed to play regulated and Simon because.
it is now deregulating between ourselves, however, unless it was specifically unless it was specifically not part of the sorry on the conditions that it's not allowed exactly so this Committee could, rather than have to do it as a review under anti-social behaviour or specifically say that he is not allowed to play regulates the time to ensure that it doesn't cause disturbance or nuisance and the hand challenges to ensure that's not legally correct it has to be on a review unfortunately.
Or sir, or if it is at this hearing, where you press and say is to stop noise nuisance or anti-social behaviour, it can be list.
however, if it is just put on there at on on or on his licence, then yes, I agree that it's deregulating, but if you decide that on this licence that you grants, you will put on the specifically to stop noise nuisance or anti-social behaviour and you have the power,
And
With regard to the tables and chairs are so it centres, I'm not aware that he had tables and chairs outside but hinted I can't comment on it because I didn't put in the application, but he did put an application into the Council for tables and chairs outside under a pavement licence.
they would have looked at that and that was subsequently granted, so I think it's a bit difficult for any of us to say that you shouldn't have it when everybody had the opportunity, worries names had the opportunity to object to the application and if he didn't have the space outside,
That, I'm sure that the council wouldn't have branched it in the first place.
however, again.
and I'm speaking on behalf, don't see that it might not be the case, but if Chair tables and for chairs outside of his establishment is in a because, Mr Santos a concern or block the entrance to its premises or it could I can't work with it.
What might be will be one title and two chairs.
but it's not something that I think that now, where this type stats Valentino, I missed the census.
Cannot discuss.
I would also ask the committee, but if you have the opportunity, I did mention it to Maryanna earlier on.
That there are comments made on social media regarding the premises.
and maybe you should set the opportunity to have a look at that, if it's, if you feel it's it's relevant, not pot anic work, sorry, it's not part of the agenda papers.
Yeah, I appreciate that Mr Bishop hello County-wide consider that okay.
the ring Dobell I mentioned at the beginning they were standing, you know almost the census doorstep.
bicycle.
and the wrinkled Dobell did pick up that, though those voices.
I am sure that I wouldn't be, and it's an assumption that it wouldn't be as loud as you know, being spoken from work for almost when I looked at the videos shown, I couldn't really hear anything but that may be just because of the way it was being presented and I don't,
disregard misses the sentences concerned about a noise in his premises, and maybe is something we can look at that Sarah mentioned to have a noise report that.
Which we wouldn't be in or adverse to join, and maybe that would be to give everybody.
some comfort.
as I said, the tables and chairs applications granted, I'm sure that.
planning all the people who look after you.
hybrid licences would have looked at the area.
measured or put up a notice to say if anyone wanted to object to it, they could they didn't get the objections that licence was granted.
and it's nothing else, and to really say it's not like it's not for me to say what Mrs censors can hear, what you can't hear, it is in his hand.
But I would really good work to give some time to Valentino if he wishes to say anything as the operator.
To try and put everybody's fears to rest, as I can see, events spat off, wherever I like, he's the one, that's gonna be running premises, he's the one that has everything on the line, and he's really the one should be swayed estimates centres as his neighbour so hopefully they can I can actually work out a twin swell so a de before before I go to the site so that Mr Johnson wants to ask.
in terms of dispersal, because that seems to be one of the other issues, although is there anything that you can do or say that because I, but I do know that yes to free people sitting down, having a whatever outside if that doesn't get on some is to the senses thing isn't so bad if they then hover around the two or three other people that are coming out and they're also chats in as we saw in the video,
I was a little concerned that you said, Mr Valentine, I didn't know that he was responsible for this, I didn't know that he you know he should be so yeah I'm making sure that people leave the area swiftly and quietly can you say something to me that reassures me that he knows this now at least.
The only reassurance I can give you is that, sir he's had me breathing down his neck.
As I have explained to him in no uncertain terms that the operating sorry, that's because your preparation schedule has been put before you is robust and he has gone through it, and he clearly understands that his history, but his responsibility to ensure that people do not hang around,
when the business is closing that I do disperse away from two, they don't stand outside Mr sentences, premises there on merit, they are definitely not allowed to take drinks outside of the premises.
and stand up smoke in one and stand around in a group, so he understands that Musa now understands.
the implications if he was to allow that to happen, I did mention very early on that.
I suggested that a door supervisor.
was not relevant in this situation, but if the concerns are there regarding dispersal and noise, and maybe that is something that balancing out should consider and you have the
the power to say, OK, yes, we feel that window supervisor between the hours of 9 and 11 is relevant.
and obviously that to say to I would would have to be yes, I registered.
And that might be something that gives Mr Santos a bit more comfort, there is also somebody there to make sure that people don't cause noise to congregate and deal with the concerns that have been raised here, the ceiling.
thank you for that, that's very helpful, OK as they, I think, where I fell out with almost there and does anyone, and I'm looking at the the committee first as anyone to say Rosemary.
Councillor Burton.
Thank you very much, can I just have a little bit of clarification, how long has Mr Sharon sharing me now is, I'm sorry, I don't know how to pronounce it Halmosi been running this business and how long you see them this premises and how long has he been selling wine from this particular premises?
sorry, Mr Jeronimo, Chair roundabout, yes, and because good evening, so we worked on the specific days through the three temporary events notice available throughout the year that I had planned, obviously to use throughout the year, so for a key dates but,
I had to use them in this period, with the gaps of the is giving me by the council, of course, in fact, during the day that I was not allowed to trade, everything was off display and we would tell any person coming in.
a brief Russell situation.
Sorry, how long have you been occupying this premises from going out and how long it had been running your wine match business?
My contract started on the third, on the 24th of April, I think then I opened on the 3rd of May.
in fact, this is also something I wanted to add earlier, the fact that the videos are already related to the first two days, on the day that I opened the shop and, to be honest, I wanted just to do a soft opening, then to be honest, all of my friends showed up and a little noise was made but that was only in the first two days.
since then, has always been a very quiet place for families and with background music.
I am also working working with my personal builder to make a sort of an insulated area, but I think it's just the fact that the noise goes through so clearly it's.
A Metro, how the building is made.
because he's just the way it is, and the the real knowledge was only on the first two days, as I said, and then either traded alcohol only of course, on the days in in which I had a temporary notice, in fact I had a calendar with you know the days marked in red or green that I was showing every client tend to be honest, it was quite embarrassing.
you know, after investing all of my savings in these and having worked in hotels for over 10 years.
it was frustrating to do that by Lee I follow the everything literally as sir, I know as someone who told me to do and then the other I would be very, very quick to the other points I wanted to add is that the all the only table I put outside it was only for the ashtray to be put there and it was away from Mr Santo's door so that people would be actually away after the complaints have been very, very questions and have been or are being gone and telling every person outside now you cannot drink outside places motorway, please don't make noise, that's what I've been doing since then,
In fact, as I said, the the videos are.
Only from the first two days that I opened since then the business round, as per is still in the meeting, as per concept.
the other thing I wanted to ask Mr Sanders's.
How you know of courtesy love to the coffee shop there was there, but they wouldn't make noise because they literally had no clients, I had the lack of the of opening up business that has been successful straight away, the loggers loved and there has been a little bit of cute to beat but I never serve the anyone they would be sitting.
And the last thing I want to say you know.
The actual licence for the payment that was granted is 2 metres per 2 metres, whilst initially applied for 2.5 pairs, 2.5, and they said no just 4 to 2 metres per 2 metres, so the pavement is quite large and is definitely not no tá residential spot is by a traffic light of a very busy road, the pavement is always very dirty I swipe myself every morning when I open the shop.
If we are not talking about a private park, we're talking about a fealty payment on a very busy road by a traffic light which I'm taking care of, and I think the area the spot is is slightly better now that's all thank you for your time, so thank you thank you for that.
I am looking at the other committee members, no filter k yes, so.
Sarah sorry, Ms Turner.
thank you, Chair, and I just wanted to clarify, since the applicant has been able or the applicant's representative has been able, to sum up, if I could just do it two minutes, sort of brief.
summary of where we're at and ask for some clarification.
Yes, OK on and we are restriction the, I think, the rules of what we're supposed to do, but I'm really keen that 12 residents the southernmost thinks I get, so thank you, I'll be really quick and I just wanted to highlight the fact that we'd been provided with this and amended operating schedule on the 20th of May and our advice to since it was on licence only and rather than on and off and then we hear this evening that there is potential for it to also have of sales being off-licence.
we'd heard that customers won't be permitted to go outside with drinks, but then there's a pavement licence that's been granted, which will allow people to sit and potentially drink potentially smoke outside, and I'm also concerned my biggest concern chair in terms of advising Mr De Santis is around live music and the deregulation and the only way that the that deregulation does not apply is if there is a review, and I, I don't want to step on your legal advisers tongues, and I know that you'll be advised on that in deliberation, but I did want to make it clear that for that not to be an option any more, there has to be a process that has gone through in the bed and if that, unfortunately, will fall on Mr De Santas to complain and to gather evidence and then to present that in review, so I just wanted that to be made clear the even if conditions are put on there at the moment that regulated entertainment won't take place, they won't have effect until that section 1 7 7 8 declaration is inserted onto the licence.
for that reason, Chair, that's why we would ask you to refuse the application, but you've heard earlier on that there are conditions that we would suggest if you are minded to grant, thank you so much for that, thank you well, that's really helpful for you.
I mistook the scientists or knew what sort.
or your mutual.
sorry, just again.
Just Mr S syrups were apologies, I will get your name wrong, you said I could have objected to the to the payment application and I've never seen anything country, my dues, I don't actually know how could have objected. It's the first time, I've ever it's the first time I heard about this today and actually did try and check. I've checked the planning portal every few weeks since Mr Valentino had come in because I didn't understand how this process works, so don't you said I could have objected, I just I don't know how could have objected, I didn't have got no letters through Madonna. I've never been informed that a planning permission was was requested for the outside area
that's a question and a statement but amenity, it doesn't Mr Smith and also not finished.
and also Mr Murray said you can this, you can't hear the music and when you heard through this and Faith fair enough, I can get either interrupt my speakers or ma on my laptop at for at full level, and then you could actually feel the speakers vibrate themselves you can you welcome to Sarah will send you the videos again you can listen to on your phone and you can feel it vibrates in your hand if if if if,
You know they are, there is definitely sound coming through and just to confirm.
because Apple iPhone is fantastic when you're talking to someone when you try to record sand, it is up, I am being honest, it's about three times lower when it's recorded on that Apple iPhone.
another statement was similar, you said you, you surmising that I wouldn't be able to hear the Sun outside of the marine doable and does amplify, helps incorrect. It is a busy road, you know those those, those voices did sound a lot on the ring turbo, I've got windows that that I can open, I don't open the windows. During the day I am on a busy road, there is noise during the day and I am on carrot line. However, at night, when it's hot, I can open my back door. I can open my windows that open
At an angle, any voices, anyone standing outside my property below my windows, the noise gets amplified straight into my into my lounge, so I can invite you in and you welcome to to to listen to it rather than then then potentially surmising and rösti Mr Valentina had mentioned that the videos were only from the third of the first when you had permission.
look, I'm not gonna, I have seen people drinking on other days, whether it's family friends or no one, and those videos of the cinema flat on the 29th and 30th April, I think if you look at my current noise complaints it was officially on either the 29 until the 30th, so it wasn't on only the one day and you know Mr Van Chairmen operating
It should just you know, I think, the last thing, I'm just a bit confused about, and again that concerns me is you know, Mr Samaras' cousin, he said Mr Valentina Non knows what he needs to do. He now understands what it needs to do, but Mr Valentino has also said that he's been in this industry for 10 15 years is how to liquor licences before or had he mentioned something occurred early on, but then if you'd been an industry for 10 15 years, how do you not know? Why does it come to this, that you need to be told by representative on what you need to submit and how you need to act, because surely you've got you've had experienced this before and you know what does what does fly and what doesn't fly, so I'm just again on one and lastly, I'm just very happy I'm actually quite confused at the end of this, I've read the entire application, the applicants application. I read the resubmission,
I won't go over that again, but I'm actually even more confused after this committee meeting as to what actually is going to go on me because it just seems like it's just that's constantly been changing over the course of the school and it doesn't correspond 100% to what's not been applied, so I don't I'm actually bit more confused right now than I was before I came into this course so sorry that's yeah,
for now, I thank you for that and and apologies, yes, that that there is there is confusion to go as far as we are, because things have changed and been amended, as as we've gone along wow, one thing I would say is that in any
any results on you, any findings that we put out, we will be very clear about what's what's being allowed and what's not been allowed, etc so said that will hopefully clear up any any confusion at that point.
I am conscious of time now, thank you everybody for for the time that you've put into this meeting already.
I can see Mr summary, that has his hand up and which, I imagine, is in response to some of the things that have just been said before I go to him, is there anyone else that has any questions for either the applicants or,
Murray, Marianne aid, I, like you, were about to spend a chat, just think this last probably just needs to address any specific points that Mr Santos's as Elliott exactly, yes, as I know that we don't need to re pitch the the application just specifically on on on the points that that Mr Santos just raised there.
Mr summary, if you're still there, now, you're Taylor.
Yes,
Mr Santos, you know, we are concerned, you're confused, but actually could have pretty shape we before this committee to try to sort out things that everybody work with.
Mr Valanciunas said that.
noise was he doesn't deny that, however, with now that it will be background noise or background music re restriction all the things that are concerned you?
And I want to impress upon you and the committee that the police
obviously, had a good look at this application, there was an issue concern from then.
we consulted with them, quite a lot Thursday withdrew any representation and sounded noise control and as far as I'm aware, the Council, so it is really an apology to you if we've confused you but as the Chair said, I'm sure that after this whatever the decision is by the committee it will be,
very clear to everybody how we go forward, which is the only way sometimes, unfortunately, these things.
and can be resolved
Sir, thank you very much, I'll have a very brief look around like so no one, as as the handicapper is desperate to sign else wonderful brilliant, I think that then concludes this parts of the meeting that day, thank everyone, this is actually taken a bit longer than the normal and that's because I really am really am keen to hear from residents and make sure that that as much as possible they understand what's happened in air and what their powers are more our proposal,
so so that now concludes this part of the meeting and the decision and any legal advice given during the Sub-Committee's discussion has informed the decision will be confirmed in writing, together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days.
and members of the sub-committee and Mr Bishop will now join me for a separate meeting where we will make the decision, but I again want to thank you all for your time, I appreciate that you know, you've given up space in the evening to help us run our borough better and that's that's really appreciated and that thank you all.
IPO, time, because I appreciated that confetti had not yet thank you.
thank you, Chair thanks committee again, thank the aides, thank you very much.