Children's Committee - Thursday 18 April 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Children's Committee
Thursday, 18th April 2024 at 7:30pm 

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1 Declarations of Interest

it
so hopefully the webcast will be live on you'll signal to me Mr. Kelly I'm sure when that's the case
so formally welcome to this meeting my name is Councillor Sheila Boswell and I am the Chair of the Children's Committee here at once where Council we have just for my letters to go through so I am going to call the names in alphabetical order of the members of this Committee on and I ask you to response Councillor apps
present hello Councillor Birchall
good evening Councillor corner good evening Councillor Rovelli good evening
excuse me Councillor Davies defiling Councillor Leigh hello good evening Councillor MacLeod
Raven chancellor Osborne
good evening everybody Councillor Owen's good evening everybody to we also have in attendance the Cabinet Member for children Councillor Kate stock
I'd like to welcome our co-opted members this committee is unusual that we have co-opted members Ms Nabeelah Haroon Mr. Anthony Anthony Langdon on has sent his apologies Mrs. Irene Wilson home selling Diocese of would've Education Church of England and Miss Angela Cox Catholic Southwark arched Isis
good evening good evening and welcome Angela I think it's first time you've attended Committee are impersonal or the second are now again unusually we also have present Miss Barbara Cuthbert Barbara's the Vice Chair of Governors of Christchurch School Church of England Primary School good evening
we have Ms Ross Kortner dices the Director of Education Southwark Diocese Board of Education good evening
we have missed peer Longman Assistant Director Education Southwark Diocese Board of Education good evening everyone
and Rosemary Davidson who will be she is the Chair of Governors Criech at school who is joining us virtually
anything
good evening
as you can see we have several officers present on and they will introduce themselves when they are addressed the Committee so welcome everyone to this special meeting of this Committee
it is being convened to consider one paper
from the Governors on that proposal and recommendation to close Christchurch Church of England Primary School
now it's an unusual format for us this evening because the Diocese representatives will be presenting the paper because they are the proposers we would normally have officers presenting a paper if I've anybody's watching or outside this room so this is unusual for us but the Diocese who are the proposers will on be presenting this paper and is also something else that's unusual in that this special meeting is taking place in a pre election period and normally in a pre-election period these meetings are not held as what used to be called purdah and for that reason no reference should be made at all to the Mayor of London and to the Greater London Assembly we obviously will have our political discussions as we normally would that those references ma must not be made and and that is with advice from Democratic services
now if there's an amendment put before us this evening an amendment on the recommendation voting will take place on the amendment first on the amendment first if the amendment falls we proceed to vote on recommendations in the paper
so we move to agenda items
apologies we have apologies for absence from Anthony Langdon parent governor
any others that so thank you and I know are moved to declarations of interest on other any declarations of either pecuniary or other registerable or non registrable interests Ms Wilson home so as you'll see I'm a member of the Diocesan Board of Education for Southwark for the Church of England.
I also feel I don't think this is actually a of a.
registrable interests, but I feel that the committee should know that I was a governor of questions, school until January 2022, and indeed I was share for a little time for time before that, but that I have had no involvement whatsoever in the discussions leading to this particular paper.
Thank you very much, Mr. Wilson home for sharing that with us or are at this point.
When it comes to voting co, opted members on so are parent governor and are docile representatives you, you may vote on this paper that we have before us tonight, there's one paper on the agenda because it relates to an education function, you will know normally if it's on children's services you don't vote but you do vote you can vote on this paper this evening so we come to the minutes.

2 Minutes, 8th February 2024

are the minutes of the previous meeting, held on the 8th February agreed to disagree to ye, thank you.

3 Formal consultation proposal to close Christ Church, Church of England, Primary School (Paper No. 24-136)

you've got them from my signing, I'll sign them later yeah yeah yeah, and so we move to our item 3, which is the proposal to close Crouch's Church Church of England Primary School paper number 24 to 1 3 6 pages 3 to 54 in the pack if anyone's in the public gallery or watching or or following on hard copy.
So first I want to say, or we're not going to want to welcome the governors and representatives from the Southwark Diocese Board of Education for attending today's committee.
we recognise I recognise that this has not been an easy decision to make.
Or a process to undertake, but it has been taken in the interest of their school community, your school school community, that you represent.
I would like to take a moment, on behalf of the Committee to praise the quality of teaching, learning and support provided to pupils and their families over many years at Christchurch School actually looked at this afternoon, the date the school opened and it was 18 66 so there's there's been a school on that site for
Are of a very, very long time. I would like to pay tribute to the head teacher, the leadership team and to all the staff at the school who have continued to put the children at the heart of decision-making and conversations remaining focused all the time on providing high quality education and reading through the papers. I was so impressed to read about the so many innovative and IT initiatives that were I how you have at the school lots of extracurricular activities, the secret garden, the gardening that the children do, the visits that so many children wouldn't get to do without the school and providing them so really, very, very impressive. Finally, I wanted to thank the officers of the Council for working alongside
our schools and dioceses to ensure that our children of and families, because it is children and families who are affected by this proposal most and staff.
That they've been supported through throughout this journey.
now I'm going to hand over at this point to Ross and peer to provide an introduction from the Southwark justice board of it, she occasion before Rosemary, who is joining us on online, will actually present the paper and the proposals, and then I will hand back to Rosen PR for some closing remarks before we go to questions so.
Ross appear.
thank you Chair, and thank you to the Committee for welcoming us to this meeting today, as you can understand its with a very heavy heart that all parties from the school sit here, but as director of education, just to emphasise that none of us come into education to close schools.
I cannot impress upon you the
the time, the passion, the thought, the care,
the consideration that governors and school leaders have put into being at this table today.
The
absolute last option for this governing body was to articulate that the school would not be viable in the long term.
And I think it's really important that everybody understands that and appreciates the time and energy that has gone into looking for every other possible solution.
Closing a school is not something that any of us take lightly and, as you rightly say, the school has been serving the community for a long time.
And I think it is with great courage that governance have come together to say what is best for the school community and what is best for our children and have spent the last six months really taking every consideration forward, this is not a proposal from the Board of Education, it is the proposal of the governors and I think we need to recognise that and commend governments for what they've done.
the paper is a very clearly set out, but I think it's very important that you also hear from the chair, Rosemary, who is currently on holiday and has made herself available to present this evening, such is the passion and commitment.
I think it's also crucial that.
we recognise the support that as a school and a diocese, we have had from officers,
in the room throughout this process, but also particularly want to say, though, the work that governors have done has been huge,
I recognise that in handing over to Rosemary, we have a short window to articulate the process and then we will welcome questions after the the introduction, so I'll hand over to Rosemary at this point.
thank you Ross, and thank you Chair this time.
it's no small thing to say that this is probably the saddest of all days for myself and my fellow governance and leadership of Christ Church High Church of England Primary School.
no one is here because they want to close the school and we're not here because there is an issue with the school's leadership they've been blessed with sterling leadership above and beyond.
The basic fact is that the impact of folly falling school rolls has made a huge dent in our school this year, and governors were unable to set a balanced budget with fewer pupils joining school in reception, then they were leaving at the end of Year 6,
the school has served the community for several decades and has done so passionately.
It's and throughout its existence, and it is with the heaviest of hearts that conversation began in the autumn term.
With the with Southwark and local authority raising concerns about the long term viability of Christchurch Primary School, as you can see from the proposal out.
It ambition is our our ambition, sorry is to ensure that the pupils receive the highest quality education and the governors, and I feel that children will fly in their new schools, who will be able to adequately provide support and educational development they deserve and indeed must have.
Our greatest concern from the start of this journey was how to meet the needs of our pupils, recognising the disruption to the whole school community, but in particular our most vulnerable families.
Those with children with SEND, we recognise that, with falling rolls a further.
reorganisation of classes would reduce the broad curriculum we offer we could offer.
with a reduced staff team.
And we could see that, rather than enhancing the offer to send peoples, the offer would now be limited
financial details
and and the pupil numbers are laid out in the papers before you and you will see that up until now we have maintained a healthy financial Bannon add-ons under the sterling leadership of my co-chair father Cuthbert
and this is the first time in the history of the school the governors were unable to meet a vanish budget with a further debt predicted through to 20 25 26 of 400 of 46 thousand Five Hundred and 8 pounds
and we've worked really closely with the Diocese look authority to consider options for Christchurch and you will see this on page 8 none of them secured funding or the staff to deliver or education well the time to consider closure came when we realised really with a heavy heart that our core purpose to deliver the best high quality education for our pupils and our community was no longer possible
in a meeting with staff and parents and families to discuss the proposal at both informal and formal stages we heard and listened to their responses and in many on many occasions just held the silence while tears were shed in the meetings and fire the portal that was set up whilst many suggestions were put forward many had already been tried and were not viable and we received a petition that whilst outside the official channels for communication we received and found that many similar ideas for safe found there were many similar ideas for saving the school however despite many Hashanah responses and please to find a way to continue no option provided what we need it which is wishes more children on our school role
though the governors urged the Council to consider this proposal
as the best option for the children in the community to ensure the best next step
in coming to this decision
recognise the huge burden this has been for all informed and express thanks mate heartfelt thanks to collar mice Head teacher
Bernie
as Deputy Headteacher in assuring Christchurch or gaps during this period of change to ensure that pupils are equipped to manage the changes ahead
the brief
reference to the process taken and as a pan back to the Chair for for questions
whereas thank you on very much indeed and I think you yet to hand back not to the Chair of this Committee but to the Chair of governments that I just wanted to thank to to to to thank come Rosemary at at at this point for the passion and the clarity with which he's spoken over to you thank you Councillor and thank you Rosemary I think we can hear the passion and emotion in your voice
I would also like to take this opportunity to say that whilst this paper is around considering the closure I am acutely aware that there will be some interest and curiosity around what happens to the building and the assets of the school and just to say that whilst this isn't a subject for discussion at this particular meeting because it's not around the decision making
here but to say that the purpose of the but one of our roles as a Board of Education is to ensure that the building is used for educational purposes in the first instance and that we are all committed to ensuring that the buildings and assets are managed appropriately at the appropriate time once a final decision has been made
I'm going to hand over to appear just for a slightly broader London view before we hand back to you Chair, thank you.
Thanks for as evening, everyone just want to highlight that what we know about the situation that Christchurch has faced and the challenges that Christchurch has faced over the last few years, unfortunately, are not unique to the school, we certainly know, and I am sure that everyone has heard about falling rolls we are saying them are across Wandsworth but in the 12 boroughs that we cover as a Board of Education.
Just in the last 12 months, we've seen a drop of nearly two and a half thousand pupils' in our 103 schools, so I think it's important to take that into context when governors are talking about the decision they made that they didn't seem to be a chance that numbers would increase, it wasn't about the school and improving the school now and therefore attracting greater numbers. It is obviously a Wandsworth issue or a Lambeth or a London issue, and for us when we are seeing almost every school that is affected by falling pupil rolls in at some point, this situation got so low that the school is no longer viable
I'll thank you very much, Sean Pierre, and and again both of you on, for the way that you are managing this, because I know I, Ms Rosemary, has said it, it is a very sad day, so we are going to move to the part of the agenda where on the members of the committee will ask questions and on I have thought for clarity that we would ask them under headings on so that we don't keep revisiting the same question or saying it in a different way, so the headings that on the the I have is that the first question would be asked under rationale the the why rationale
The second heading consultation.
I'm sure there'll be a lot of questions around the consultation, so we'll take questions on that and then the third that'll be impact, so under impact will be thinking about the children so important, the staff equally important and the site and you have covered some of that already just now so impact children staff site and then we will end with.
A set of questions might like to thank Councillors around legacy and learning the that part of it legacy on and learning so on, can I ask for questions under the heading of rationale, got any questions under the heading of rationale Councillor Osborne.
yes, if I may, I do have a question, but if I may, I, the Chair has already.
So I think summed up the view of the Committee very well on our approach to this, but in fact, if I may just briefly to say that one of the things that comes out of the paper when you read through the the rationale and the decision-making is the the compassion and the courage and the commitment to high quality education for every child that is that has gone into the the decision-making and the analysis of the situation and one and that is very clear and I think has to be stated here at the Committee but but I think my question is is when you were looking at or at the rationale for this decision.
How far did a planned transition for the for the children come into your deliberations in your discussions?
I think that was one of the first points for discussion from the governors was if we are in this position and we have to consider closure, how do we manage the support for the pupils' and the families of this community, and I think one of the first responses from the Head was,
That's that's what we do all the time we prepare our children for change, and if that's what it has to happen, then Christchurch will make sure that those children are ready for transition and we will do that well and they will go off confidently whether they leave now or whether they leave at the end of the year because that's just part of the Christchurch Cormac,
the LA stepped in straightaway, to say we recognise that change causes disruption and lessons learnt from previous closure was that actually teeing up the support and
GP, support educational psychologists support they were they attended the next meeting that we had with the school governors and have already been active in the school, so I I would say it was one of the first priorities was how do we make this work?
thank you any other questions on rationale Lisa did you want to come back and then I'll go to Councillor Keogh yeah just to say as well, I mean, obviously we have done that piece of work, and I know that are principally P is working with the head in terms of of the support for staff, actually, because obviously they are the people that know their children best and are going to be working with the children, so it's really important that we create safe spaces, reflective spaces for those teachers to support children. The other thing is it doesn't just stop there no when children move on and we have already had children that have moved from the school and the psychology service has linked in with those schools that have received the children to touch base. How have they settled? Is there any support that the receiving school needs to ensure that those children, yeah, the transition is smooth, but actually then they flourish progress when they're in their new environment? So it's it's a a joint approach really in terms of the school where the children currently are, but also the school, that's gonna be receiving the children.
Thank you, Minister, narrowly on Councillor Corner, thank you, Chair and I'd just like to.
Share.
just say that you know my eye, my thoughts are similar to 2 Councillor Roy's warnings, you just articulated what we heard from the Chair of Governors as well, are Rosemary.
As has already been said, no one wants to close schools around this table, we want the opposite, we want to have thriving schools, but the rationale.
In this paper and those set out so eloquently by the government, it is clear that this you know this, this difficult decision is, does seem reasonable, given the fall in pupil numbers and an funding and challenges.
So I would just like to thank the governors and the Diocese for putting this Pay our proposal together and bringing it to us today and for all the work that they've done.
I do have a question related to to.
Costs and the forecasts that that were put together for this, so on page 18.
we can see that where it says where funding shortfalls were forecast, you the store was proactive in reducing costs, merging classes where possible increasing income could we just given that we know that that this the challenge of falling pupil numbers is not by any means limited to Christchurch and it's something that all schools in London are facing could you just go into how successful that work was to explore?
the cost reductions in income generation through other means.
I think it's fair to say that we had anticipated from several years ago that there was a chance we could reach this point, so we had undertaken on restructuring, as we say, we had taken a difficult decision, then to have some redundancies in the school and at all our forecast points on which the help of of Michael's processes,
we were looking all the time about whether we could save funds, whether we could cut costs and we were taking those decisions so, as Rosemary commented.
We had, we still are at the point that we have funds, it's only this year that we can't funds OK, I'll send you any further.
But it was, it was a process of continual, looking, continual adaptation, whilst at the same time.
and Rosemary brought this out saying we will not compromise on the quality of education that we offer.
and we will, we will not, for the sake of finance compromise what we were offering to send pupils', so it was it was a continual process of adaptation and I would say.
Thank you very much any more questions on Russia now.
Is this a supplementary?
thank you, and it really comes out very clearly in the paper that quality of education and protecting children's education was absolutely at the forefront of your your thoughts, so that that is very clear to me, so thank you for your answer in terms of a very quick follow up has the diocese explored having schools work together to reduce fixed costs and overheads across the schools that you are responsible for might be a question for the diocese wider Diocese rather than a?
the governments and, if so, how successful has that been to date, because that would be understanding learnings from that, that type of work would be really interesting for thinking about how we manage other schools in the borough as well.
As far as an approach from the dioceses partnerships and finding cost savings by bringing schools together is something that the we advocate for, and we do a lot across across our schools, I think in the situation of Christchurch
Unfortunately, the when you do partner with schools and and move into a situation where there is staff sharing resource sharing, it takes a are. You know, at least a year and a half to two years, to start to see those cost savings come down for Christchurch, it has gotten to a point were actually to broker that partnership was was not possible. I think the the pupil numbers had become so low that even staff sharing across schools wasn't gonna have the impact that it needed to have, but I think moving forward, you know, partnering with schools. Having strong modules where staff are shared resources are shared, is definitely a way to stabilise schools, as pupil numbers drop, and I think that it's something that we will be working towards with all our schools to to have a stronger school system moving forward
Councillor Owens, I saw your hand up and then Councillor Macleod did I see no Councillor Lawrence, thank you, Councillor Burgess, one things I didn't spot in the report was your recent Ofsted and I was just wondering if, if that had had anything in terms of the rash now etc etc and obviously pupils will,
grateful for thoughts.
that was not part of our decision-making on, and it came after the issues that we're talking about tonight, so that's so it wasn't didn't it wouldn't help that, didn't it wasn't part of the decision-making? I I'd just like to, if I could just add a follow up a response, because I realised I didn't comment on the fundraising aspect I know I just would like to reply on that. That this school, and particularly our headteacher, has been massively impressive in being able to raise funds and to get a grant for the school to enhance the curriculum offer
And to broaden that experience that our children have to fill in the gaps, but my comments would be that those types of funds tend to be given for specific purposes, so income comes in and for a specific cost, they are not generally given to day-to-day running costs of the school so whereas during the consultation parents were put very passionate about about raising funds and the possibility of that,
That was our response that not given for day to day and also are not funds that you can use long term to support the structures of schools, they tend to be either one-off or or time-limited.
Q yes, Mr Hallett, do you want to come in for explanation?
you sometimes find that there isn't as much rigour, this is, exceptionally, it is rarely the last resort.
Had that from Mr Hallock, our director of finance, so now, questions around the consultation, I think we've probably got quite a few questions on that I can see Councillor Day.
yeah, thank you for this paper.
and I just wanted to say that you know, I've had experience as a former teacher in schools, with footfall in voles, and you know identify with the challenges that it faced on, you know the day-to-day provision of teaching, but also that sense of community and, yes, financial sustainability, you know we want families in Wandsworth and we do not want our schools cos but we also want the quality of yeah education.
For all children so yeah, my Micah, my question really is about yeah, it is about the consultation, so I presume the legal implications and paragraph 72 that the Council we need to sort of check that the statutory requirements to consult,
Has has happened from what I say that certainly has happened and best practices for the followed suit as well, in terms of consulting with politicians yeah, I do note that there's a small number involved in the consultation, so I'd be interested to hear.
you know how far you think the Council tie taking went, could it have been done better in any ways?
Thank you.
Thank you, the the pre-publication consultation was actually you know, we governance spent a lot of time meeting meeting with the community meeting with parents consulting with with staff, there was regular meetings where actually people did have a chance to community had a chance to share ideas or bring forward any concerns issues and we were throughout that period updating with new information.
Taking on board or any suggestions or and sort of communicating that back there were there were many more responses and you can see that in the paper in the first consultation, I think that there was a much higher engagement.
and there was definitely
you know from from parents, of course there was a concerns about it and there was a big push to to keep the school open as we got through to the end of the first consultation. I think that the communication from governance to to the whole community had been very, very good and very transparent, and what happened through that period is there was really an acceptance that the school and the governors had done everything that they could do. They had explored every single option. This hadn't been a decision that was was snap decision that had been made over a few months. We were able to communicate how long and agonising that had been
and I think, as we got to the second.
Meetings were with families, parents, community and staff. There did seem to be an understanding of the predicament the school was in, I think people had accepted that everything had been done, and so the engagement for the formal consultation, with only the 11 responses it really just signalled that people understood they accepted, they didn't like it, we, you know, nobody wanted to get to this stage and are in other consultations that we have done in in other boroughs, with other schools. We've seen
a very similar pattern, where the second formal consultation has had a lot less responses, I think, and actually that goes a long way to commend the governors for their transparency with the community and to show that people, although it wasn't a decision they wanted they did understand.
Thank you, I'm Councillor Corner, I think you had a question yes, thank you Chair, I wanted to ask a question about the consultation and the petition that is referenced in paragraph 50, so when this committee last considered the the closure of a school, that some of us were surprised by the number of responses to the consultation and actually the same house as has occurred here with only 11 responses but before that in paragraph 50 it talks about this petition that many of us have heard about with over 3,000 signatures.
Could I just ask, and it was a detail in that paragraph, about how you review that, and there was some question marks over whether every one of those signatures is.
A valid one and the extent to which respondents through that petition.
understand the detail of the proposal, but did you get formally presented the petition as governors did you meet with the people who started the petition and understand their concerns, what were those discussions like if they did take place?
We certainly met with the instigators of the petition and the
in a separate meeting to the pre consultation formal meetings,
That we had so we met individually and there was a great deal of passion for saving the school.
We were not aware initially of the intention to to instigate the petition and it's, as is mentioned in that paragraph, because it didn't fall into the formal communication that had been set up, it wasn't something that we could feel that we could rely on, although we recognised there was a lot of passion we
The to generate that we didn't know where those signatures were coming from and therefore it was difficult to to accept it as as valid, but certainly we met with the people who instigated it.
and where they are people who are part of the school community, parents because they were parents, so they they also attended the parent meetings and and had a chance to make a formal presentation to that meeting.
Thank you on any more questions around the consultation for the dioceses and Councillors, I am looking down this side because I think we've had a.
Three questions from Councillor Corner, on the consultation and on a follow up as well, should we move to impact?
one question, Councillor Corner, and then will move to impact where we'd be thinking about the impact on children staff and also the site, thank you is a very quick one on the consultation because so many people are consulted with, but you only we only get Les 11 responses and that that was the same with another issue that this
The Committee considered so in your in your view, is that because the Kings Court concerns in an explanation on the proposal was headed off earlier in the consultation, but do you think there is more we can do as governors as a local authority in order to spread the word of consultations and get a genuine view from from the Committee from the community impacted?
I think peers right that the 11 that comes out in in the paper was in the formal consultation, the pre consultation had 47 responses, which is quite a number, so there were a lot more by the time it got to this the formal consultation there was as peer has set the general acceptance of the direction this was going in, but I would say that I think collapses commenters as well that through the consultation it became very clear that this school is very much locked by the current parents and by people who've been parents of children attended in the past and some of that.
You know, it isn't said.
every day it sometimes takes a situation like this for that, particularly the staff and the had to hear that from parents, so it actually.
It has a very good purpose in facilitating what we thought was out there, but really came through strongly how much this school is loved.
Thank you, I'm very much now, and I think that Rosemary, who is the Chair of Governors, has got her hand up behind me, Rosemary, did you want to contribute in response to that?
yesterday, thank you, it sounds like a follow on from Barbara was saying.
There was also a sense that when we got to the point of speaking to our community parents and teachers, as it says that we wouldn't have come to that point, if it was some, if it was something that maybe should've might happen, something in the future is very serious.
And I think that there are a number of people who really got that and felt OK, this looks like something that's more likely gate and not so, in addition to a lot of the information that we gave, and we did go to a lot of legs to make sure that we were clear at the end.
rationale and how to go about it translated into a in into different languages for people to understand, I think, I think, to my mind, it speaks to the
to the quality of of the community and the level of trust that we would not be going down this road unless it absolutely had to, and therefore questions that the number of responses would be 0 but maybe one other thing but not necessarily in criticism or digging out the initial rationale in terms of what was put forward, so I would I wouldn't look at the at the 11 responses in a negative light, I would be more likely to say that we as as as governors and as Darcis we did due diligence and explained everything with as much detail as we possibly could to the to the parents and to the wider community.
Thank you very much for for clarifying that, and I think Ms Fenner Rowley would like to come back and then I have got Councillor Apps and then Councillor Davies.
yeah, I just wanted to commend Governors the dioceses as well, because actually this is about the journey they brought their school community on, and I think again we recognise that the the formal consultation responses were low, but from the pre-publication consultation. Every single response from those parents was responded to through Q and A, and they were shared with parents at every time or a query or comment came in, there was a response to it and I think because of that engagement pace and because parents staff were brought on that journey of understanding. That's why, in the formal consultation, the responses were so low
thank you, so are Councillor Apps and then Councillor Davies, thank you so much, and it's good to hear about the clarity of the communication with the parents and what I'm interested in just investigating a little bit further is about how the requirements of consultation, the formal requirements were balanced against allowing parents and and other all stakeholders involved to have an opportunity to express their views and to share their
Their attitudes towards the closure of the school and, if you could just speak a little bit more about that, that would be great, thank you.
I think I'm I'm not entirely sure exactly what the question is asking, but I think in terms of ha it the way we went about the way the governance went about, the consultation was not just via one one means of response, you know in the beginning it was very much engagement through meetings through through,
conversations getting the message out there that this is where the school was. It was very important to governors that anyone who wanted to respond had a chance to do that in a way that they felt comfortable doing that. So you know in in the public meetings and the meetings at the school we hold them so that people had a chance to it's a sort of speaking in a public forum. We also met with parents individually when there were groups who actually didn't quite feel comfortable. It's speaking in that sort of forum and bringing questions. We gave staff a chance to have one-to-one sessions when when they felt that that was right for them, because we understand that actually, sometimes when the message landed
it wasn't the right time to do give use to to talk about concerns. There was also you know, I means to respond via an online
portal so that the that was easily accessible through through technology through phones there was written ways to respond and that was translated into as many, I don't think I've ever seen translations into 12 languages, the translation service there was busy that week, so it was very important that governors felt every single person had a voice and that that voice was heard right the way through right up until the end of the formal consultation.
Thank you, Councillor Davies.
I'm sorry, if I might, I'm just also clarification.
there's been twice reference to this consultation and another consultation about a school closure, and I don't know who's best to answer this, but I don't think there has been another school closure in the last couple of years, certainly there was a repurposing of a school, but I wondered whether maybe the Cabinet Member or the director would clarify that for us thank you, Councillor stock cabinet member, thank you and give you everybody in it's been really humbling here in the contributions from the the governors and the Darcys and hearing more about the journey to to get to tonight and and the decision and the journey that the school has been on, and I thank everybody for the hard work that's gone into this and all the options that have clearly been.
explored to get to this point.
if, as Councillor Davey said?
There has been one previous.
consultation in relation to Broadwater Primary School I understand actually the engagement for that was quite similar to the engagement for this, but in terms of statutory Speaker was that I think that was classed as a a consultation but just to reassure all members of the Committee that school is being repurposed for education to be a specialist special school for our peoples with SEND or and as the committee has heard, that's a really important provision for us to deliver in order to provide local places for children with SEND within their community.
thank you very much for further clarity on Councillor StokeHull cabinet member, so on we'll move to questions which come and what impact, so this is impact on children staff and I've also got written down here the site, although I think that's probably been answered so impact any questions on impact.
Councillor Calverley and then Councillor Burt.
gleaming cow granny, stop asking you appreciate that, obviously you're aware of the anxiety that's that's caused for appearance when they'll be considering or alternative provision as it is. They are obliged to move away from J Christian at school, but in particular I wanted to ask about a parents who have children who have S N D needs because I noticed you've identified the fact there's five children with HPS and 16 with a C and D needs
I just wanted to ask about the sort of assurance that you could give appearance about the transition that is gonna be made away from Christchurch to another school, because obviously the transition itself is difficult, but it's obviously more difficult if you are a parent of a child who has a C and D needs and it's not quite as easy to make that sort of seamless transition as it may be for Paralympians I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about that and give us what assurance she can.
I think Christchurch has historically under its very much under its Christian ethos and has been school that has made every effort to accommodate children whatever their particular need, and therefore it was, it was at the forefront of governance minds about how it would transition and whether there would be sufficient places and we have extensively questions at the local authority about it as I'm sure Adam and Deborah will attest.
They have given us assurances that places are available, but we remain concerned until every child is placed and we do recognise that it's.
it potentially is proving difficult and we are grateful for for any support that Deborah can give us.
We have a wonderful.
send a responsible teacher at our school on the support she is giving the children and supporting transition is is magnificent.
and I would encourage at any school that
is potentially chosen by our parents or approached by our parents to to.
the EIS with Helen as much as they can to to secure that transition.
But it was top of our minds whether schools would be as receptive as Christchurch has traditionally been.
I have Councillor Birchall next and then Councillor Lee, Councillor Apps and Councillor Owens.
Ms Le yeah.
Ms Fenner, rarely sorry I didn't see you down, there, did you want to respond as well because it's such an important issue, yeah just to say that obviously those five children with HC peas, they've already known schools have been named already for those children, so we have already named the provision for for those to transition we're obviously liaising as well if they've got siblings and and obviously it's appropriate if they're in a special school, that's slightly different, but if they are going into a mainstream school we are making sure that obviously to make it easier for families that we consider placing most children in the same provisions so those are conversations that Deborah and Adam have had.
I would say in in Wandsworth our schools are highly inclusive, it is the approach that we take to education so it's early intervention, early support at the right time right provision and that's the approach that we take, we've done a lot of work with our schools in terms of ordinarily ordinarily available provision to make sure that they can meet the needs of children even if they don't have a plan, so I am confident that wherever the children from Christchurch if the decision is taken to close wherever they move to, they will be embraced, they will be supported.
And Deborah and our inclusion team in Wandsworth will work with those schools to make sure those children have the support they need.
thank you very much, that's very reassuring, Councillor Birchall is next, thank you very much, Chair yeah, I was going to ask you about the SEN, children as well, so I'm really pleased, too to hear that that you've found places for them and I hope that they'll be the most appropriate places for them, so all of the children will have a school place in September, there's no doubt about that. What about the staff because it must be so traumatic for them?
To have the employment.
Curtailed at the end of the summer term, what are we doing to help them?
I can come in on that.
The staff for governance, of course, were a huge concern and, and you know, I think it was especially concerning because we gave a message to staff right before Christmas, and that was a a something that governors found very difficult, the benefit of being a school within the dioceses is you know, we are already having conversations with staff about redeployment options, we know that there are many, many positions out there. We know that,
it not only in our own schools but certainly across Wandsworth and and wider, there is a recruitment crisis, so you know this, the staff are very school today, they have transferable skills and we've made sure that there is every opportunity for those staff to meet with HR representatives from from both the diocese and from Wandsworth.
they've had opportunities to have one to one. We've put or other governance have also put in place support for them where they can have help writing CVs to go through. You know, options for them moving on to make sure that they are supported every step of the way wow at the Das's. We've already been in conversation with some of the members of staff to find them suitable positions in our other schools. So you know we will continue and governance will continue to work with with every member of staff to make sure that you know if they move on to where they want to go and and that that transition is right for them. Some will choose to do. Of course, move on before the end. Perhaps others. If if redundancy is right for them, then then that's something that we will make sure we support and
and work with individual staff.
Thank you.
thank you, I've got Councillor Lee next and then Councillor Apps and Councillor Owen and I can see our Rosemary, the Chair of the governance at the school, that you want to come in as well, and then I have Councillor Davies, so Councillor Lee on the questions around impact on children staff and site,
Yeah, so think I wanted to.
ask if, if this decision is made to to close the school, how will the children be told and we talked a little bit earlier about transitions and how we've we've already had a few a few children who've been moved to different schools and how we've helped with their transition and making sure that they're settling in, but obviously the there's a difference between the few that have already moved in and 95 supporting 95 children so yeah, how will we be able to support those children in in their new schools?
thank you think, right back when the decision was made to go to this stage of consultation, there was a lot of work gone that went into, how do we tell the pupils', how do we tell the families and when do we tell the staff and it is pay have pointed out staff were told us before the start of the Christmas break,
and then after the meetings with families in the at the beginning of term, children were told as part of a a planned process by the school leaders, and I think Colette and Bernie as Head and Deputies spent a lot of time crafting how that would be how that message would be delivered and then also being well supported by the educational psychology service to make sure that the messaging was right and wasn't just left in limbo there was follow up work that,
came after that.
can I just add to that, just for clarification, there is currently 43 pupils' that are left at the school that are reception to Year 5, so actually that that does make that transition more manageable in terms of the numbers.
thank you on Councillor Apps, yes, I sort of mindful of or are getting through, so on, I think Councillor Apps had a question next and then Councillor Owens, and then we'll go to Rosemary.
Thank you, I am mindful also of the family units we've talked about the impact on the children, but there's obviously also potentially a financial impact on the families themselves, one of our early initiatives was as a council was to support new pupils' with uniforms and clearly now all children are going to be going to new schools that are all going to be facing this, so I wanted to ask the Cabinet Member about there is or there is a discussion on page 20.
On paragraph 65 that so it says the Council is committed to providing financial support to families towards the cost of new school uniforms, obviously families will be anxious about some of the costs they're facing, can you clarify how much that cost will, will the Council support, thank you.
thank you, thank you. Councillor further for question n, definitely very mindful of the current cost of living crisis and how that's impacting impacting families and across the board. As a Council we've been thinking about our school uniform support scheme for children with free school meals entering reception and year 6 it in relation to pupils' that moved up school in relation to Broadwater Primary School. We extended that offer for all peoples of that school in the same way as they moved on to support families, recognising this as an additional costs that they weren't expecting to have to face. So we have committed to doing this in this situation as well, and the figures in relation to each pupil is 100 pounds per pupil and for moving onto their next school.
A 100 pound voucher provided provided online, I think.
Yes, sir sorry, those online might not have heard that Mr Hallett was confirming that will always stand ready to support families if that voucher isn't special.
Councillor Owens, thank you just a little bit more on the impact on children and I am most interested in the one in the site as well. The obviously there's a list of schools there where obviously there are places and there seems to be quite a lot of places in Wandsworth at the moment I mean, it's it said something like 27% vacancy rate, which is absolutely astonishing. I mean, I don't know if that's same across all the London boroughs, but I would imagine it's not dissimilar. I was just wondering if some of us here have children in one and one, and certainly some of those schools listed as well, how it was how it worked when we had the repurposing of Broadwater, an awful lot of children went to the student would go to, which was also Primary, as I understand, and I was just wondering of that list of schools, and it's unfortunate for you, because some of them were academies that started off with 600 places and expanded to now. Belleville has a 150 year intake, which obviously didn't help you and A and R on and with your sort of Ofsted which will obviously result, requires improving in November. Or are they moving towards a particular school, or are they going across the river to the Christchurch and Chelsea? Thank you,
I don't think they're going to the Christ Church in Chelsea, I think they put the most of the families, it was about locality. I think that families didn't want to have the additional travel. I think it was very important to them that the their days were not, you know completely changed in terms of how long they were travelling to and from school. There were definitely a few on that list that had more vacancies than others, and I think what came out and what generally does come out as families. They want siblings to go together and friendship groups also wanted to go to schools together and and there is one school on that list that had a lot of vacancies, I think so many that it could probably have taken every child in Christchurch. Sorry, I think that many families will choose to choose to go there. It was very close in proximity, some have chosen to go to the closest Church of England school, but that was a a mile away, so it is. It is an additional journey
thank you very much on Councillor Owens, you don't seem to know the political history of your party, because that was the party that you represent the policy on expanding and bringing in free school and academies, and I was one of the Councillors at the time who spoke at BA about the fact that it would impact on schools, and we are sitting here now in this very sad situation in part not wholly but in part because of that policy that was not thought through, so I find it quite difficult that you are bringing that up and and and telling these
Our hard-working people that it was tough on them and that the academies have taken some of the pupils', yes, you make them came when I just come back and I come back to that, I'm going to Ross W OK, I am fully aware of the academy system, in fact I chaired a school
sorry, I am fully aware of the academy situation. In fact, I chaired this school. I was government for over a decade which was outstanding in Wandsworth, but also I was bringing it up because it is a reality now it was not to say I understand the policy because my children attended one of those schools. It was to point out that perhaps it wasn't even just the expansion of the academy, it was also the schools before we are not just on new sites being but still being allowed to have more classes, and that's ongoing that's that that's just a reality at the moment
When we have a 27% gap also with Labour, that brought him an unreasonable first.
not free schools and academies and Rosemary you've been waiting patiently online, I'm so sorry you wanted to come in.
yes, thank you Chair, I want you to also state that fall in terms of supporting children in children with SEND.
In new schools and settling them and supported that that's a lot of work was put into supporting the parents of those children, because very often.
their children will pick up anxieties from their parents and a lot of work went into taking time to speak to parents, reassuring them.
advocating the advocating for them, where it may seem to have been maybe not even not clear or slightly stalled so in our approach in terms of supporting not just not just the children, but the staff and the parents, we took a total 3 60 view.
And let's now, we approached every aspect of this journey for Christ Church school, thank you, Rosemary, going on that very important issue of children with SEN, I've now got Councillor Davies and then Councillor Corner and Councillor Osborne, and then we may move to the fourth heading.
yeah, thanks for the reminder about the the effects of academies and free schools, but also we've got to remember about Brexit and the cost of living crisis and the government's rather.
So back to the point of this committee is yeah so important.
Yet new schools, we all know it's daunting, especially if you're not going with your friendship group, we know that mental health can decline for some people in terms of transition, then we've got the year 5 who are going to go through a change and then another change so.
You know, so it's very good to hear about you know, the Council committed to sort of support with uniforms there, but I was wondering also whether the Council could to aid transition and the inclusion in the new school with enrichment activities which might be about school day trips or even a residential trip.
If some people listening didn't hear that or anyone in the room, and that was Mr Hallock saying Yes, we will support that, definitely thank you, thank you very much, na miss, funereally.
Yeah, I mean it was just also to say you know those sorts of things happen in the schools they're gonna be moving into they will be extra-curricular activities there will be an actually receiving more children comes brings with it more funding which will then create more chance for these opportunities so I think you know sometimes we also say that you know we pre-empt what's going to happen for children and you know we I've already seen from from the Broadwater closure those children have settled extremely well our schools are fantastic at receiving children they do it all the time that is part of of what they do you know that's part of welcoming new children into their environment now we're a bar of Sanctuary we've taken children in from the Ukraine they've settled amazingly into our schools you know us on our heads are staff know how to do that exceptionally well and I I think sometimes we as I said we worry for children but they are they are resilient and they you know they they they they are good at coping and as long as we wrap the support around them and make sure those that are struggling have what they need then I have every confidence that any receiving school will will you know in bed that will nurture and will provide them with those opportunities
thank you Mr. generally that some very reassuring and I know on a school visit to Honeywell I was so impressed there was a Ukrainian child refugee family who had arrived on the Friday and the school visit was on Monday and he was in Honeywell school are with one to one and beginning to settle so yeah it is sort standing that the work that stand and it's really reassuring that these children will go to that level of support
councillor corner I have no banks and thank you to Councillor apps for asking the question I wanted to ask on uniforms on the site matter we've had and thank you for your assurance that you'll look to use the site for for educational purposes do you know when we'll be able to hear more about the plans for the site and could you give it a bit more of an update if there is one available on the planet
so at this point I think it's fair to say that that's something that we will consider once a final decision has been made at this meeting and then there's a piece of work for us to do around site ownership and I know there are different parcels of land across the actual school site itself including the gardens and that will be a separate piece of work for us as a diverse to to to begin once we know what the outcome is
Councillor Osborne
yes
thank you for that answer and I welcome it I think that that's exactly the way to to to look at that kind of question but I'm interested in the question as well and I wonder if I can approach it in a slightly different way Ms Longman was very eloquent at the beginning of the meeting about how there is a London wide phenomenon here
so I'm wondering if you
My guess is that there are at least one or two other occasions when the Diaz's has been through this heartbreaking process looking at those can you give us the some idea some examples of the kind of things that would be appropriate for the building and the site in question is that is that a reasonable way of putting the building similar question
thank you I think the
in 2 other boroughs where schools have closed over the last eight years then the starting point for those conversations is working with the local authority to see what other educational needs there are for a particular site so that has been a decant sight in one borough while some improvement works were being made at another site it's been a home for pupil referral units alternative provision in Croydon
and that that is that was temporary arrangement which is still ongoing now and then a third example was exploring how the site could be used for education and then realising there wasn't a use for education and then looking down to see what community use is there in the first instance to say how can we
use the building for the for the local community and actually we've got are a school that closed in 20 21 is actually being used by community arts project and that's
That's right.
There are a five-year lease, and the hope is that over time, it would would come back into educational stock.
Thank you, that is very reassuring and I know a lot of people watching as well will be very interested to hear to hear that answer and that response, so on we move on to the final heading, which is legacy and learning questions under under that heading legacy and learning do I have any questions Councillor Lee?
Yeah, I think.
we, we all know, sorry, where I've worked with children as their speech and language therapist for the NHS and and I know that endings I ending of are therapy blocks or goodbyes are really important for children, and I wanted to ask whether there would be the opportunity for a type of
celebration and
in some way that we will be able to mark the the sort of schools, history and
And and support the children with with the ending and the goodbye.
at the end of the academic year.
I think we didn't want to too much anticipate the decisions tonight and pre-empts, but we have given some thought already to exactly what you are describing and I know collects has already secured some funding for workshops for the children to capture memories and particularly workshops with are what I like to think of our residents' author who's been working with the school for a number of years.
and I think, collapsed plan, so are that each of the children will.
the artwork and poems and their thoughts will go into a book that each child will have, we will be very keen to and celebrates all the achievements of this school, and particularly through its Christian ethos, and we will have already thoughts about planning a celebration or eucharist for that purpose and hopefully performance of some of those poems on that day to the governance of them marked their May meeting to if the decision is made.
To start planning in more detail those celebrations, but definitely we must, and we will celebrate all this school has been.
thank you very much, and I'd so important, isn't it, and it's so important for the children as well to have that on ending and closing if that is the decision this evening on, unless there's any further questions on legacy and learning, I think we can move to a decision now Councillor Cornell,
thank you, Chairman, I'd like to just give some thoughts and perhaps get get views from from those proposing this, and I'd just like to thank you again for coming to the meeting and it's very tough process that you've been through one, but I must say that from what is set out in the paper it does seem that this is the only be only.
the only viable option to safeguard education and do the best for children.
So that that's certainly our view, I do encourage.
you to
do some work to to understand what how that building can be better put to use for educational purposes in the future, and really look forward to hearing the proposals on that.
and finally, I do think there is a piece of work we need to do more widely across Wandsworth to get to help schools and support schools to work together to reduce their costs where possible, I know there are some excellent case studies of where this has been done across the country and we need to understand that won't always be possible and this is a huge challenge that schools are facing locally to deal with falling pupil numbers but where things can be done they should be done now rather than.
Having more school, sadly, have to go through this process of low of considering closure, but thanks again to those who have come to the Committee this evening and presented, we really appreciate it and and we understand the position you're in and and thank you for the work you've done.
excuse me, I'm losing my voice, thank you so much for that Councillor Corner, so we can move to decision.
so that is on the recommendation on its on page 2 of 22 if we all want to look at that at paragraph 2, and it is the Executive is recommended to approve the discontinuance closure of Christ Church School with effect from the 31st of August 2024 does the committee agree?
agreed unanimous agreement, thank you so much.
thank you, thank you, everybody on for attending this special meeting and on sad occasion as it is, I can see that great care has been taken by all involved for the staff and, most importantly, the children of this school, thank you.