Transport Committee - Monday 19 February 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Transport Committee
Monday, 19th February 2024 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

1 Minutes of the Previous Meeting

no, I am welcome to the meeting of tonight's Transport Committee. This meeting is being webcast and some officers may be accessing. Virtually please do bear with us if we experienced technical difficulties, good evening to everyone earning and those who are joining us in the public gallery. My name is Councillor Fraser and I am Chair of the Committee members of the Committee, I'm I'm gonna let you all introduce yourselves but just for the official minutes we are missing one of our colleagues from the Committee this evening who just liked a minute and I'm sure others will agree with me tuition best wishes because I believe he is abroad getting married at the moment, so
as they were missing, Councillor Locker this evening and apologies have also been received from Councillor De La Sagal as well as evening, so I'm going to start with Councillor Yorkists and work our way round and new introductions.
para?
yeah hello, Councillor Taylor, I am also present.
hello Councillor Apps.
hi Councillor Courtyard Labour councillor for Tooting Bec ward
hello Tony Belton, Labour councillor Battersea, Bart Ward.
and Daniel Hamilton, the Conservative representative on the panel tonight, Alan Ward.
thank you, members of the Committee, say, members, I am just going to reiterate, ensure that when you are speaking.
your microphone is turned off unless you are speaking when you are called to speak and every time you do speak please state your name, especially as we've experienced some difficulties today with printing, so we don't have the usual named budget here so conscious we do have some people joining us for a couple of the papers tonight so do please just try and make that clear and please don't mind that the committee must remain core at all times and that you should remain present throughout the item unless a discussion.
a item under discussion in order to legitimately vote on them CSA as I said, we've got people present online and a couple of officers dotted around the room this evening on a point of order, yes, Councillor Bell, I'm very interested by what you've just said I haven't quoted in the planning applications committee reasonably.
we in many ways mimic the House of Commons, no one ever imagined for one moment that people to attend the debates right through in the House of Commons, why are we, what rule is it that says we can't go outside to the to the by the course of nature or whatever and then take a vote because I think this is Mr. Choudhry beg your pardon quoting him in public here being too restrictive about what councils can and can't do, and I would like to see this in writing at some point because,
one of my members, I chair, a committee was prevented from voting recently by the Committee Clarks precisely because she had a pool of nature and I want to see that in writing. Do you think you could get the committee clot to get someone to deliver that to me, please? We'll put that down as a as an action point and will I'll get that that's sorted out and I think just in general the if, if people indicate that they'd like pauses between papers or tie in kind of, if someone aims to indicate that to me, we've we've certainly done that previously that we can arrange that and also it keeps the flow of the meeting going short. I don't know, but yeah yeah, I am merely saying that are in the past up to say three or four, that was never as original as that. Never and, as you know, I'm always fond of quoting what happened in the past
thank you, Councillor Belton, noted, and will pick that up.
returning to tonight's agenda, we have the minutes of the last meeting of the Transport Committee held on the 2nd of November, can I take those minutes as agreed.
thank you very much, and just before we move on to the items for us this evening, does anybody have any declarations of interest if now speak or forever hold your peace?

3 Introduction of Cycle Lanes and Road Safety Measures on Mitcham Lane (Paper No. 24-53)

let me thank you all so, as noted this evening on the papers, we have a couple of deputation, so the first item, the Committee is asked to receive deputations from Mr. Simon, Alexander and Mr. On Brinkmann, I'm hoping I'm saying that correct on under Standing order number 13 in connection with the report on the introduction of cycle lanes and road safety measures on Mitcham Lane does the committee agree to receive the deputations this evening?
agreed, thank you very much, the committee also needs to consider a procedural matter relating to this evening's meeting that we've also received a request on a separate item from Councillor Mrs. Graham to address the Committee in connection with the report on the quiet cycling routes.
does the committee agree to receive that when we arrive at that paper as well?
thank you very much, given that we've now got two papers with deputations, and obviously one is our first item, but given that we've now got a deputation on a quiet cycling routes, I'm going to propose that we move that item of the agenda to follow so that those who wish to leave after those papers can detail is the Committee in agreement.
agreed. Thank you very much OK, turning onto the substance of tonight's agenda, item agenda item 3 is the introduction of cycle lanes and road safety measures on Mitcham Lane, I'm going to ask, firstly, Mr Simon Alexander to come and speak to us each each person to give a deputation will be timed for 4 5 minutes.
when you if, if I if I can see you kind of still.
in Florida kind of 4 minutes 30. I'll try and kind of make a signal to not to put you off your flow too much, and then we then will have five minutes from from on. So if you're able Simon to then to step to one side to allow on to 10 and take the seat and then we'll pick up the discussion following Nat, does that all sound OK to you? Simon
and finally.
lovely alright.
okay sit.
so yeah, so in a moment I will yeah in a moment I will yeah say that that that button that's in front of you on the microphone just press that when you're speaking yeah and I will switch mine off in a second, so I'm going to let I'm gonna hand the floor over to you
thank you for agreeing to receive my deputation. I'm speaking on behalf of residents of Mitcham Lane, who are opposed to changes to our roads on the grounds that the changes are just not needed. Initially, our objections were based on the reasons outlined in port point 15 and, whilst those objections remain the two issues that stand up more than anything, having lived with the changes for 10 months and the speeding and the abject lack of cyclists on such a short stretch of road that doesn't connect to any other cycle lanes, I know that the data presented claims that cyclists are up and speeding down, and I will talk about the validity of that data later but come and stand on our road for any appreciable length of time. You won't see many cyclists, but you'll see many speeding cars. However, what is more concerning is the lack of consultation, collaboration or rigour before during and indeed after the trial period.
I note in a democracy Wandsworth report that repeatedly mentions a live consultation process that allows changes to be made immediately so that all aspects of the scheme can be tested and fully considered, including comments from residents. Yet, despite being described as an easily reversible paint job, when we first met with Councillor Cooper in April, not one single comment we made was listened to in any and every request for a meeting was rebuffed. I have submitted these een, these e-mails to Councillor Yeats, but my first request was denied because we had to wait a few eight weeks for the changes to take effect. Then we had to wait because we weren't even halfway through the process and then we were told to wait until the results were published. With regards to the online consultation, there are issues with the methodology, promotion and sample size. The sentiment of people on a poorly advertised link is by no means a sufficiently robust way of measuring the success or failure of this scheme. Moreover, there was evidence to suggest that people who fill out surveys are more inclined to have strong views, and those views are more likely to be polarised. It also seemingly gave equal weighting to everyone that filled out the form, regardless of where they live, and how they were impacted by the ITA. Furthermore, the online consultation was completed by grand total of 222 people. This is simply not sufficient to approve such drastic changes to erode even the language used is biased. The announcement of the changes said that it was in response to residents requesting Mitcham Lane be made safer, for they weren't residents of Mitcham Lane and nobody can argue with making a safe road, but these changes have not made the road demonstrably safer. Moving onto the data, I was flabbergasted to see how this has been presented and how it has been used to recommend that the measures were approved.
speaking first to the number of cyclists, it is important to highlight that the automatic traffic count does not distinguish between two wheeled vehicles. As such, the figures will include motorbikes, scooters, electric bikes and bikes. Perhaps more alarmingly, the difference between the figures in February 2023 and June 2023 also doesn't take into consideration an uplift due to seasonal changes. I would expect more cyclists in the middle of summer line in the middle of winter. It most certainly cannot be considered sufficiently robust to justify to justify approval of these measures. Finally, we were also in lockdown or just coming out of lockdown in June in September of 2021, which also nullifies the validity of those numbers. When there are no figures for 2022, we did some data collection of our own carried out by the Reverend Dr C Clark, someone who is a prominent figure in the community. She neither supports nor objects to the PTA but wanted to
See say its effectiveness, the analysis was conducted in April 2023 before the Étienne measures were introduced in February 2024, I have her data here, I've only got five copies, but you're welcome to it. But a headline of our findings is that there are lower figures recorded for each vehicle typing 2024 compared to 2023, with the exception of motorbikes which increased regarding the speeding. There were two points to make. The ATC was placed close to the Southcroft Road roundabout, which means that Council will either be slowing down as they approach the junction and others will be pulling away from the junction whilst going uphill.
secondly, the numbers presented are an average and average were on or around the speed limit means that some cars will be going faster because the ATC will also count vehicles when, in traffic, last scouring their data further, if you want to witness the speeding just come to our road anytime.
in summary, for it to be an experiment, it needs to be no bias and all outcomes needs to be possible. This clearly was not the case and since it wasn't a live consultation, since the consultation methods was not robust and so poorly responded, so that it has to be discounted, since the data for speeding and volume of cyclists is so flawed, that too has to be discounted. Since the data we have suggests cyclists has dropped from April last year to February this year, there was no choice but to reject the PTA and, in the absence of any proper data, returning road to its original state or at least work with residents to find a solution that works for everyone and advisory cycle lane with parking in some places, including overdrive, would be our preference. Please, please, don't just push this story. This experiment has not been supported by sufficient research or data, and a lack of interest in the views of the actual residents of the roads is appalling and at very least please pause to do the experiment properly thank you.
thank you very much sign and just check. Has anyone got any questions that you'd like to ask before we move on to Councillor Hamilton? Thank you very much for Alexandra, I appreciate you taking the time to come to the committee that seem to share your views. I did note going through the papers that of the 283 people that took part in the consultation. It was only 58% in favour, so about 130 people. They've obviously been a concerns about a number of the consultation processes. The Council have gone through for four road changes in recent times. What would have you accepted as being a consultation that you would have had potentially confidence in or accepted, even if it wasn't in line with your own views, you would have accepted was a fair consultation. What do you would like to have seen
and I think that's an excellent question, thank you, and to be really clear, I'm not against cycle lanes, that is actually a large part of my objection is that there was no collaboration, so when I asked for data it wasn't given to me when I asked for what the metrics of success were, I couldn't be told I was told at 1.00 point the less accidents would be.
would be one of the key measures.
I think that the, even without the takeaway, the consultation just have some proper science, so some proper science with the measurement in on and a proper place, so that, as I said, that the the speeding or automatic traffic count was at a place where no car is going to be speeding its before or after a junction so have that have that monitoring in the middle of the road,
with the with the the number of cyclists differentiate between two wheeled vehicles, because to say there are 281 as cyclists ish is just actually wrong, because it's two wheeled vehicles one and then just.
I, I would like to have been part, you know, or if I'd asked some questions and had some, sir, some opinions actually had them listened to or responded to adequately.
that a follow up to this very separate point okay, yeah, and thank you for that, just a quick follow-up you mentioned, there was data you asked for, that wasn't provided, do you recall what that data was just, the committee could be aware.
so.
I I would have to check through memos, but I think the data was, so there are two things, so what are the metrics of success, because the basic premise of an experiment is that you know you, you're testing something so and by what was the success criteria for it my cynical view is that we've waited for the outcome of the consultation and the the period to finish so then almost refine what the criteria were.
the data was just because you there had to be measurement before in you, for for experience experiment you need a before and an after or before, during and after, ideally so, once it's nowhere, you know what what the figures were before, which wasn't provided to me.
yeah, I think that, yeah, it's just there, was just a lack of collaboration and a lack of openness, and I think they liked the fact it was called a live consultation really disturbed me because that was just plainly not true and as I say I have forwarded e-mails to Councillor Yeats where I've repeatedly I could only find three, but there were more but I've repeatedly asked for a meeting to discuss it, and there's just given an excuse each time.
thank you very much, Councillor Yorkists got a question.
first, I will declare an interest because I do use the cycle lane every day to get to work, God 2 questions, the first question is you, thank you again, let's repeat what Councillor Hamilton said about putting the effort you put into this just by interest do you have a background in traffic management or engineering because you speak very eloquently about it?
that's a question I can no, no, I work in advertising.
OK, thank you, and you said that you're not against cycle lanes, can you paint us your dream cycle lanes for Mitcham Lane where they to be kind of, as you would want them?
well, I think that's the point, isn't it is the sort of cycle lanes needs to be judged on merit, what cycle lanes are great, they make cycling better for cyclists, however there has to be.
as I say, it has to be judged on merit, the pros and the cons the impact of that cycle lane on residents of the road because it is an almost exclusively residential part of the road, the fact that that cycle lane does not connect to anything north of Mitcham Lane it
I would struggle to see how it's possible, you know the first time for AIDS and then into portrayal roads, Nick O'Donohoe advised that south of Mitcham Lane, Southcroft Road and Stretton Road is part of another borough, so you know what can you do about that, I think that the thing is around the time of this implementation I was on Clapham High Street and
are you just saw, cyclist after cyclist, after cyclist and?
yeah, how can you argue with that because it's
being used, and it's on a a road with shops, whereas I think that the point about it is that you know, it's a residential part of the road, it almost feels like it's been implemented, because that's the broad stroke policy. In fact I know that is because we you've identified corridors, and that's the point where it is that Mitcham Lane to you know, not you personally, but it is seen as a corridor wisdom us.
it seen as our home in all and all the road that we live, our lives on, and so so broadly speaking, cycle lanes great.
but cycle lanes on.
High streets, cycle lanes where they they are actually used, as opposed to just having a cycle lane, because that's where one can be fitted.
thank you very much, Councillor Kretser, quick shod, you've got a question.
thank you very much, thank you, and thank you for coming to speak to us.
because I hope, and I know you've obviously done a lot of preparation for this, for this I wanted to pick up a couple of things on the first one is that part of this comes off of the changes involves changing the signalised pedestrian I'm assuming that that is not I'm assuming that's something that everyone agrees with.
they're changing the pedestrian crossing outside St James's Church is part of the one of the changes, so I am just checking that.
what I'm hearing from you is that you're not very keen on the cycle lane arrangements, but I just wanted to check that that's something that, so I think that's exactly exactly right until you're out, there are parts of the the the ITA that you know that are impossible to argue with, for example, adding the yellow lines around the corners to make it safer for cars to pull out.
difficult to argue with the raised platform disk difficult to argue with the efficacy of it very easy to argue with.
because I does nothing the cycle lane I yeah, yes, because the cycle lane and the double yellow lines are the have had a major material impact on our lives and then, if I can pick up the next bit of the questions, then is,
I'd say two things is now if I have to declare an interest, I used to work at the practice at Grayswood when it was there, so I know something about crossing that road and and the difficulties, and actually it is quite busy, I think I'd say two things. The first one is in terms of speeding. You have the disadvantage that Mitcham Bryant line to Southcroft Road goes downhill and I think absolutely every road in the borough that goes downhill. There's a speeding problem, we can get speedwatch on there and presumably if there is a speeding problem, hopefully officers might be able to think about further ways to slow the speeding down
and I absolutely take what you say, is it yeah, you've got an average, not the top, and the bottom are, hopefully we might be able to get what the top and bottom is but yeah, and if you're going downhill people speed and the last point our responsibility yeah yeah yeah, so so the so two things, first of all that there's a very long ago to the speeding actually is between Blackburn and.
Eastwood sorry, not just the downhill part in both directions in both directions and it it's the the real issue with it, and this has been my issue with the process and all discussions I've had on it is that there is a blanket,
forgive me political approach to cycle lanes on this 620 metre stretch of road, I thought it was 400 metres I was corrected at 620 metres in itself, is that an important correction, probably not it is a very short cycling that's not connected to anything people are all of these daily dealing around the issue.
we did not have the speeding on the road before the cycle, then, of course, that's impossible to prove, because your measurements.
were not done properly and not yours, of course, but the measurements were not done properly.
so we're now talking in almost in theoretical zombie, and I think the issue is that I it's not cycle lane at all cost, and that is how it feels and, as I said, I would have loved the opportunity to talk about a site or an advisory cycle lane or Nicola Donald supplies some other options bizarrely, a raised platform, I think is less intrusive than the the double yellow lines the but obviously that's more expensive but,
dancing around the issue of trying to adjust the speeding the speeding was fine.
for a council, you don't have any free to utilise that data, or all I sorry all I was just saying is obviously if speeding is an issue, there are things that we could do as well, so if that's the case please pass that on I'm looking again to look at Mr I Donald a bit but yeah, but I think that's my point is that so what we've done, or what's happened, is that the ITA has created a problem that was not there, I've got people behind me that I've lived on the road for 2030 years
and they have noticed a demonstrable difference in the speeding and it is honestly it is erotic, it's not just 30 miles now, it's 40 miles an hour, 50 miles now the government has for a long time done an important the importance of speeding while we have a 20 miles out because at 20 miles an hour a child that gets hit lives at 30 maybe not 40 probably no.
so the issue is not that the speeding is caused by the Hideo dancing around that and trying to find now problems to solve the speeding is avoiding the issue at hand.
thank you very much.
Councillor me, OK, you've gone questioning just just, so I can understand it in my head. Obviously there's a lot of discussion about data you, you'll speak, you're kind of saying very confidently that the increased speeding is a direct result of this scheme. Can you just explain kind of logically what the connection is as in is it, because the road is narrower, Mario bought up more speed? Is it that you think that I don't use less traffic? What do you see as the direct correlation between the scheme in this meeting, and as you rightly pointed out, I don't have a background in transport planning, but what I do have is my eyes and what has happened with the road, because obviously you have parking on the roads and I know that there was illegal parking, sorry, illegal in inverted commas because it could've been, you can do it another if you make it formal, you can do it
there are, because there are not the volume of cyclists, I mean, I cannot believe that what how has I sometimes go out and I stand on my pavement in my driveway for 10 15 20 minutes just to put I had a full head of hair before pulling my hair out because,
because there's just no cyclists, there were no cyclists, so the link is, because you've now got a very you've got a 2 metre wide cycle lane, which used to be filled with cars parked over their drives parts on the on the street. That is now gone, so it's just natural that when you've got such a wide straight, fairly empty road, because the traffic volumes on Mitcham Lane are not high because it is actually, where does it go? It doesn't really go anywhere, it does it, it goes into Mitcham, so the the the traffic volumes are not that high, which means you've often got no congestion, which means cars can go as fast as they like, and just by nature of it being a very wide road by nature of the fact they want many cars on the roads, it's a long stretch of road or 620 metres
you build up speed and then there are some people that are just reckless.
OK, thank you very much, and thank you very much for your time, Simon really appreciate that I am not going to ask you to do a seat swap with with on horse waving, I mean to say thank you very much say thank you very much and thank you for hearing me here's the data lovely thank you, you will pass that down, thank you very much.
evening. Thank you very much and just before I start I apologise for our financial name incorrectly, but do please innuendo and church and correct me, but hopefully that you had to be the same same process for yourself, I'll I'll I'll hand over a minute I'll start the clock and then if if you're certain in flower about four and a half minutes I'll I'll start to kind of ask you to wind up and then we'll open the floor to any questions from my colleagues around the table, so over to you
sorry, and if I can just ask that you've got a little button just at the bottom, if you can press that when you speak lovely.
some pronunciation was perfect, just so let's start off with that.
to show the benefits brought to the community by the scheme, I'd like to give the example of my own family, so we've been living in first-down about 100 metres away from Mitcham Lane for a roundabout 18 years.
we do possess a car, but we prefer to do most of our journeys by bicycle.
my family is me, my wife, a 13 year old who attends, Graveney school, local school and an 11 year old attending Penwartha the other Mo another local school.
since the introduction of the scheme, so it's about 10 months ago.
and especially during the summer of last year, as a family, we would for the first time cycle along Mitcham Lane before that we would have either gone by car or the kids would have ridden on the pavement, it's now safe enough for them to ride on the road.
in terms of where we go, because I think that was a topic that came up in the other deputation we do go down towards Mitcham Lane on the road so we we live offer road called called Welham then you return right onto the road and we will travel down towards Mitcham where we would go to either figs Marsh which is a big park to play table tennis they've got a lot of table-tennis tables all we would go to Mitcham Common, which is a big open space to go for go for walks.
and
to give an idea of what these changes mean for us.
essentially, I've sort of made five points one, and there's now a designated desert dedicated space for cyclists that other vehicles cannot enter.
it feels like the narrowing of the road has led to a reduction in the speed of vehicles, maybe not massive, but it does feel as if there has been one.
the perception that that we have is that there is a raised awareness of cyclists by there being a cycle lane marked out on the road.
there is no need for us to manoeuvre around parked cars whilst we're travelling down the road due to the presence of the yellow lines or double yellow lines, and there is clear visibility at junctions both people seeing us better and are seeing a danger at the junction better.
as a you know, criticism.
I think that you know the lack of one's means or put it this way if there ones could be added, I think that would make a significant difference in, too to safety and and maybe perceived safety by creating a physical segregation, I think now this the plan is to have a very short, strict stretch of ones but our preference would certainly be to have ones for the entire scheme for that reason.
so just to try to conclude.
you know this, this was sort of a an insight into the impact that it's had on our family, now my children and my wife and me, but speaking to other residents they they share the positive feelings about the scheme
and a couple of points just two, as is almost sort of reminders due to the railway lines, this is the only way for people efface down to cycle towards Mitcham.
other than huge detours around Stretton, Stretton, Vale, or Tooting.
and secondly, lastly, first-down has four schools in its neighborhoods with 3,500 pupils attending 2002 of 2,200 of which are in the secondary school Graveney coming from cyclical distances, they're entitled to a safer environment to work the site to wrap up now and that's it all right. Thank you very much, thank you very much for your time, I'm now going to apply the same process, so if in the Florida to any of my colleagues who wish to answer or any other committee members wish them to ask any questions,
Councillor C, Richard.
OK, Mr break, Mr Brinkmann, thank you very much for coming to talk to us about this.
this interesting, your presentation has got me thinking, which was slightly out of the box, obviously one of the problems that we have, which has been mentioned by Mr. Alexander, is that the borough boundaries at the River Graveney, so after Southcroft Road there's a little bit that is not in the borough before you hit Links Road,
there are actually there's fairly good cycle route through on the other side of figs, Marsh through Pitcairn and lavender, I think I just wondered, picking up what you said, whether we it might be something we ask officers to look at as to whether there is any work we can do with Merton to actually clarify yeah and make it clearer how one can get through to the other boroughs.
that, sorry, that was, that was something that came into my head listened to, I mean just for a piece, one piece of information there, what we often do is once we've crossed into the other borough and got under that railway bridge, we will go into a parallel road called Hill Road which is very quiet, it's just one
further to the east, but that's one way of doing it with children, that's what I would I do.
got it also just thinking about the ones I can absolutely understand and sympathise with wishing to have a have that properly secret, segregated rather than lines on the pavement, and presumably is that something that, when we look at post implementation soon, we were going through with it that officers would be able to pick that up. I think we can probably pick that one up in the next part of that if we've got questions for officers as we can for possibly picked that up in the next part of the discussion and maybe not put that on, are people giving deputations, but
it seems no, but if you've got used on it absolutely bringing the ones to ones with.
thank you, Councillor me, Yorkist.
having visited, there was a strange question, but obviously we've had two very opposing experiences of of this lack of of the scheme if you were to put your inherent bias to the side, do you recognise any of what was said in the other death on the deputation?
and Jaeger speeding is the thing that stands out to me where there might be common ground, as as previous Councillors have said, that that's something we could look at moving forward absolutely, you know, on the subject of volume of cycles, I think you have to bear in mind that for many years it's been an incredibly dangerous place I would never have taken my children on that road.
so it's gonna take time for numbers to increase, and I think the Council's own numbers show that there has been something like a doubling over a one year period right, so I think it will happen, I remember, when I used to be the only one cycling through Clapham, so you know these changes take take a while.
in terms of speeding, yes, you still have random cars, you know travelling way too fast, on the whole, though people are adhering to that 20 mile an hour speed limits, but it's it's you know you, you just get people, some people have had no regard for it.
thank you, I'm just doing a final check round to see if there are any further questions.
I know there are further questions they aren't. Thank you very much as well, you're welcome to now go in and returns and sit in the gallery because the next part is, though I just want to reiterate, as are mine and the Committee's thanks for you for coming in this evening, we really appreciate hearing from everyone. So just for those listening that the next part is, we're now going to formally discuss this paper, I'm gonna pass to Mr O'Donnell to give us a brief introduction and then we'll open the floor for further questions from from Councillor around the table, so Mr O'Donnell
thank you Chair.
just to remind I appreciate we've had quite a lot of the detail, but the the paper sets out a recommendations primarily to focus on making permanent the temporary scheme that's been in place, approving the trial of cycle lanes and the various other measures, including double yellow lines as well as looking at the installation of a zebra crossing outside 1 4 2 Mitcham Lane and a limited amount of one Dorcas at the Mitcham Lane Wiese Road junction the paper itself does set out quite clearly.
some of the outcomes from the results collated, as well as the feedback from the consultation. If I may, Councillor Letts to pick up on some of the points from the speakers. So just to try and keep the sort of factual points are of some of the key points were raised, it just turns it to Mr Alexander Mr. Alexander's very helpful representation. There were four main areas wanna just to quickly touch on. One is around speeding, just to say that we, we've done multiple and regular speed, Councillor along this corridor, over multiple years we've highlighted you know for speed, Council that we've done over a two year period. These showed an average speed reduction of one mile an hour. National data verifies the fact that every 1 mile hour reduction leads to an approximate 5% reduction in accidents. We have also looked at and have data from other parts of Mitcham Leinster, for example, we had better for Mitcham Lane, north and south, of its junction, with Welham Road, which is close to Worcester where Mr Addison was referring to in terms of desire to see other speed data,
and that showed a reduction in speed from 20.7 miles per hour to 19.9. So every single speak out, we've done, has shown there isn't excessive speed there and that the speed data is going in the right direction in terms of reduction. In terms of the the question around the lack of cyclists, any change along a corridor takes time to embed and takes time to grow. It doesn't happen overnight, everyone doesn't suddenly rush there the next day and and great here now I'll start cycling cycle numbers, as, as has been proven, across multiple schemes across the borough, take time to build and grow. We've seen the numbers go up from 131 in June 2021 to 281 in June 2023. I would also stress the point, as we've had from the second speaker, that it's not just about the metric of cycling numbers, we don't judge schemes just on pure numbers. It's very important about the quality of the cycle infrastructure, how it makes users feel, and, as we've heard, those who wouldn't normally cycle suddenly having the confidence to cycle there is fundamental. It's there to increase in broaden the user type as well as the numbers and the feeling of safety and protection through what is a key link that carries an awful lot of traffic through the borough. I would also, unfortunately, have to pick up on the point that the measurements not done properly is not a correct statement. The measurements were done properly, they're done by very experienced qualified independent contractors who did this every single day. The measurements are checked by officers invalidated and all of the speed and count data is correct, and I would also pick up on the point that the ETO is not caused speeding on the corridor quite the opposite
it has clearly reduced speeding on the corridor, and the date is there to verify that. I understand the frustrations around the consultation process, but it is a valid consultation process and follows proper and due process and legislation. It's very well established in terms of experimental traffic orders. This approach has been used on other corridors, such as Garrett Lane, Queenstown, Road and Lavender Hill, which also had experimental traffic orders done on them. And the last thing I'd saying, in relation to the second speaker, just one point for Mr Bridgeman is obviously designed for the introduction. Regional ones is something we had looked at at this stage. We've tried to keep it limited in relation to changes to the corridor
but there are some challenges in relation to drop kerbs bus stops and an 8 metre spacing rule, which makes it quite challenging to put lots of ones down there, it can be looked at in the future and the following I'd says that as many scheme we've monitored before we've monitored after and we will continue to monitor in respect of any decision today if whether it's yes or no the corridor will be continually monitored, so we will continue to look at all of the data there, all of the performance, all of the behaviour, all of the speeding all of the user numbers and continue to take feedback right the way through, thank you.
thank you, Minister, as I know I am now going to open authority any questions from colleagues sitting around the table.
Councillor Taylor,
no, so that was just a hand fleck, though, yes, sorry, Councillor Ap.
thank you very much. Find that very interesting, and I know that the perception of speed can be different to how to how it's measured. I've come across that myself and it's is an interesting point. I think, for residents who are experiencing speeding. I wanted to ask specifically about, we talked about the average and about what the sort of top and lower ends of that were, but I wanted to pick up on another point in the report which was item on page 7 item f. There was the mention of roundel road markings to help remind drivers that they're in a 20 mile per hour zone. I can think of quite a few roads where drivers appear to forget that they're in a 20 miles per hour prowess on them is it are we looking at rolling these out much further? Is there something we're going to be deploying? I would strongly recommend recommend and kind of welcome that if we were, thank you
just to say we do, we do have a budget to look at various measures to help with speeding across the borough, as well as round, also that could be speed, indicated devices that could be other forms of of speed control, both vertical and horizontal, physically, on the ground.
as well as other information elements such as Reynolds on the roads, they can be rolled out, we tend to do them selectively interviewed, I want to blast the whole borough with lots of these because it didn't then tend to come slightly counterproductive in terms of visual element but and whether our request will always considered them so we're happy to take them on on a request by an authorised basis.
thank you.
we've got any further questions or points to raise on that paper.
OK, so it does say we've had that conversation and there are no further questions on that paper so.
I mean just go, I'm gonna go into a bit more detail on the next thing is gonna ask colleagues to vote on the on the paper to take a decision on them, because we've got those in the gallery, I'm just gonna, read out what got councillors are being asked to vote and just because for the benefit, because I realised that for those who haven't been here before it can be, you know just did just to make sure everyone is clear and what's happening. So the next point is, I'm gonna, ask the committee whether they agree to support the recommendations to the Executive, which appear in paragraph 2 of the report, which notes the consultation results, approves the trialled cycle lanes, approves temporary double yellow lines, approves the installation of a zebra crossing outside 1 for 2 Mitcham Lane and approves the installation of 1 orcas at the Mitcham Lane, Worcester Road junction to prevent vehicles using the cycle lane. So could I ask all those who are in favour of the scheme to please raise their hands.
thank you, I am in any votes against the paper.
and any abstentions.
so the vote carries, so the paper is then approved on that item, so thank you very much and please can I just thank you again for those who came and took the time to speak to us this evening, it's really appreciated, we are now going to move on and for those of you Councillor Crichel.
just to take some profits.
apologies for anyone listening were just having some technical discussions, and and for anybody in the Gallery who's got a paper copy, just to reiterate, we are now moving, we're shifting agenda round whenever I'm going to move on to the quiet cycle routes paper which currently on on the printed copies appears at item 6 so,
in I'm gonna ask Councillor Graham to to come to the table to to speak to us and then we'll we're gonna continue the discussion on that paper, then this evening as well.
I'm just also gonna take a pause because there's a bit of technical difficulties at the top end of the table, so I'm just going to wait for those to resolve themselves.

6 Quiet Cycling Routes (Paper No. 24-56)

OK, thank you, good okay, sorry, I'm going to Councillor Graham welcome, and thank you for coming to speak to us tonight on item 6 on the quiet cycle routes paper, I will tell you and I'll I'll indicate no when you're getting near to time if if that's the case so over to you,
I just ask a question before by magic five minutes.
but basically there are two routes I would less like to.
speech speak on,
shall I do one, and then do the other, or shall I, because I would like different outcomes, okay, or shall I do everything together? The yeah, you've got the five minutes to use it in whichever way that you I want the best is yet so yeah, colleagues, I am sure it will be able to write down notes and asking questions related the
Alison, thank you for your time tonight, I am speaking on behalf of the MAC and friends and to put into context para 5 4 this is route 7 the MAC was invited to meet with Councillor Gasser workers and Councillor Fraser 18 months ago for an hour and a half where there was no mention of Quietways, new surfacing and lighting although being in discussion with one officer who does not answer phones calls to suddenly find they had to submit an MOT Mac Member has put together a good clear picture of what has been discussed and what has not had agreement with them.
but I am concerned, you have not read the e-mail that they sent sent you then to find also the paper, a green consultation on route 7 has totally perplexed them, as also on this, no mention has been made to them.
I also want to make you aware of the management and maintenance agreement which are wanted by the Council, the MAC friends, and enable have, which is for 10 years, how can this paper come to committee without including their comments, and to be clear, as a commitment from the management and maintenance is to enrich, protect and enhance the Commons with the environment, sustainability and biodiversity.
so the impact on cycle, as cycleway from Bellevue to John Archer Way, will decimate this historic common and again with the potential loss of the ghost road, which is the tinder which is made of Tinder. Please remember the common bylaw states. What is taken away has to be replaced in if this cycle route were to be put in, it would be at least seven or more metres. That's nearly as wide as a road. Now, the impact on the biodiversity from the trees, the bats to the animals, families, dogs with more and not sharing use will also considering you may have electric bikes. You will have motorbikes and also cargo bikes coming as well. I hope, common sense I do to help you have the common sense
to actually vote in support of a deferment for route 7, which is not ready for consultation, as all is not agreed as you here.
so I am asking you, through your chair tonight, to defer the recommendation for route 7 to go for consultation until there has been discussion with the MAC and Environment officers as well, and I do hope with common sense it is deferred.
so following on with Root 12
I read the paper, but I think I want simplicity, it is important to have simplicity and what you are intending to agree this evening to include suavely gardens Lydiard, why make it complicated from Oldfield Station to Springfield the route should be from Magdalene Road with signs pointing to Fieldview do Birdwood Lane which arise exactly at the entrance of Springfield and of course vice versa.
he's failed Magdalene Road to to the to the Fieldview. So on that, I really would like to ask you for your consideration on the simplicity on that. So, but could I just draw your mind Councillors to backward lane? I thank you very much for their help as a Gas replacement, but there is a massive disco concern that you are going ahead with a new cycle way without consultation. Now I do remember when we had our meeting Councillor Yeates, which we really welcome is with Councillor Hamilton,
I really would love to have clarification on that because I am sure that we would consult before going ahead with whatever redesign takes place in the future, so on that clarification and, of course, deferment from routes set route 7 for purely sensible reasons because everybody's not against cycling but we want the best and, of course, consideration, with route 12 to create simplicity and not get amazed through Swabian Tranmere anyway, thank you for listening and I hope I can answer questions.
thank you very much, just before I open for questions, just to be absolutely clear with the we you mentioned the word motorbikes, the the there's no way motorbike is gonna be going for going through the comments, so so just to be clear on that and secondly, just I think there was the constant way consultation has been used a lot recently here and and in other literature that I've seen elsewhere in the borough and I think there's a slightly kind of worrying,
kind of trend that I seem to be rising, that the the word consultation is being used almost as a way to kind of sail. There's been no consultation here. I think the key thing to note is this paper is opening up consultation and whilst I within my own colleagues, I know that they've got very strong views on some of these routes and amendments that they want to suggest as well. The the idea is tonight we open the discussion and they're open for suggestions and and I know that, for instance, Councillor Crichel has got set views on ways that she likes to travel round some of the Balham routes, the idea and we're using quite a nice consultation tool called commonplace. It's really interactive. The idea is to generate discussion and really to do that. So what we're agreeing tonight is to proceed with consultation and just to correct the record that there absolutely was consultation on Birdwood Lane that absolutely happened. I remember it well, so just to correct that point as well, but I'll now open the floor to any questions.
as the situation here is that with the route 7.
is the fact that a lot has gone on with the consultation, with the MAC, who know the common back to front and an upside down, and suddenly to be talking about the opening of the gates of John Archer and stuff like that?
is seems to be a bit strange, because it looks as if you're consulting on what the John Archer entrances rather than actually taking discussion the actual.
environmental impact that it hasn't been fed into this paper, that's all, thank you.
thank you, I'm just get open, I've see Councillor, May August, you've got a press question and then Councillor Arlington, thank you.
thanks Cunningham thanks for your time, sorry, I've been quite involved in this process. It's firstly also to correct the record is incorrect to say that and e-mail, your reference hasn't been responded to, it has been responded to and I've had since had a reply the I just wanted to ask where you had from reading this paper. I can't see any discussion of 7 metre wide path, so if you could refer to where that's been enlisted, can't see any reference to lighting? So again, if you could preference, where I can't see, any reference to
new tarmac over the specific path so yeah, if you could clarify where those exist, because I think there is a very real.
7 metre wide path.
situation with the common and my Councillor colleague will assist for information, for you is the fact that what is taken away from the common has to be put back and in the terms of the bylaw the tarmac, which will make the would would make the cycleway wider. And you just sorry, can you clarify where, in this paper it talks about tarmac? I'm just raising the in the discussion that the papers that you had, I am speaking on behalf of the Mac 985 asked. I'm asking you specifically to say where it says tarmac in this paper, which would lead you to believe that that is a possibility that the possible outcome, that's what I'm confused by in my knowledge of tarmac and my knowledge of the law of the Wandsworth Common Mac and the common law as regards, for instance, to Bellevue Road because it was wide and they had to find they had to find more common land so that the land from the common would not actually be eroded, and my colleague will actually tell you about about that, as she knows, I'm sure, far more than me, if you're happy to speak, to her, to clarification, I am absolutely I'm just I'm not terribly difficult, I'm just I can't see what you're saying in this paper, so I'm just worried that we're giving a false impression to residents. You're not. I am just raising concerns that have not been taken into consideration but yeah, I I think, if I may, the CA the the the worry I have is that we're raising cautions against ghosts like elements that don't exist, they're not being put forward, they that so I don't know why they're being talked about as if that's what I'm trying to be difficult, but if there's something in writing in this paper then let's discuss it if there's something about a 7 metre wide fast, let's discuss it, but I can't see that and I could be wrong, but I just really don't want these committees to lead to false impressions and to scare residents into thinking that somebody is going to happen to the common there isn't being proposed. That's that's my worry
so it's actually might take place and because there is no discussion of oversight of what might take place, you've mentioned lighting, but lighting isn't in this paper.
I think you are trying to misinterpret what I'm saying I'm not at all and that you are bringing a deputation against the paper, and I'm asking politely, if you might be able to point us here and now to where this paper proposes a 7 metre wide footpath new tarmac or lighting and then I'll be happy to discuss it in detail there is a proposal that is being proposed from Bellevue Road to
the John Archer Way there is a proposal from what I'm I, I am aware of that in any discussion that you are looking for a cycleway as regards to the submission that the one off the map.
residents wrote as his group in the Mac have a cycle route and a walking group who actually met with you, Councillor Gasser and Councillor Fraser, 18 months ago, and so what I am saying is they feel that you're not listening to them on that as well as actually we are you guys are possibly going to be voting on route 7,
as regards to the entrances, making wider for the tennis, with a tennis area and also the area when.
that you know, you're not taking seriously, I feel, from what you'll know were being discussed, the views of the market that they you just seem to be walking over them, and we are here tonight speaking on their behalf, let's all as Councillors.
thank you, I, I'm gonna, pass the Councillor Hamilton in a minute, but I I think you were the kind of deliberately ignoring some of the points that Councillor Mayorkas was also raising nothing yesterday on okay, I voice the Arthur OK, thank you. Thank you, both Councillor Hamilton, and then Councillor C Richard, thank you very much, Chairman, thank you to Councillor Graham and Councillor Burgess coming receiving to share their views. I am, of course, conscious that the the report this evening only does talk about consultation as opposed to recommending to to proceed, but I just wanted to to clarify you. You obviously raised some some concerns about environmental impacts of the scheme and just just to offer you the chance to to clarify what a couple of those are to the Committee can be can be certain we can have those on the record but to stress I'm I'm I'm comfortable the fact that at this stage we are ready to give out proceeding to a consultation rather than passing the scheme
thank you, Councillor Hamilton, the the MAC has a very good relationship with enable and and and and the Council, and they are very proud of their common and they want to enhance it and protect it.
and protect the dot biodiversity, and I feel that there is an area that needs more investigation with officers before it actually comes to.
for officers to work more, you know to look at the in impact I mean, there's I've been to meetings with their concerns about the bats, for instance you know, I'm the lighting or the tree damages which may happen in the future and and and so the bigger you know the bigger picture and so that's what I am raising with councillors this evening being the voice of
a group of very violent or committed volunteers whom feel I feel that you're not listening to that's what I'm, that's what they feel anyway.
thank you, Councillor Crichel, thank you very much, thank you, Councillor Graham, for coming along for this, I think I'm going to say two things, the first one is, I'm absolutely with Councillor Hamilton, this is a paper that asked us to move to a consultation.
the members of the the MAC sent the e-mail to all of us when I'm looking at that, I thought this is the sort of thing that one would wish to see in the reply to the consultation, I think that and that's the bedtime concerned about because I do feel as Councillors for once, worth common, what I would hope, your view, your position, is, is to encourage residents to look at the proposals to respond to the proposals and also for that you to encourage the MAC to look at this and respond. This is a very early consultation about a possibility
one of the things I would say, someone who cyclists cross Wandsworth Common a lot is some of the things that are put into a quiet way, as Councillor Fraser has alluded to, might not actually be quite the ones that some of the cyclists would wish, so I think that,
it's quite difficult to try and prejudge what is going to happen and, and my plea to you would be to say, please make sure that everyone looks at the consultation answers the consultation, if you know people who find it more tricky to use the new web, the commonplace which will discuss I'm sure that we would be able to take written responses just like this MAC one.
thank you very much, no, sorry, I'm I'm afraid that we only raised it received a request for a deputation from from from Councillor Graham this evening, but I think all my colleagues so say I'm sorry had we received one from me Councillor virtual but yeah no no, but thank you very much and thank you very much Councillor Graham Fee for your time this evening as well, I'm now going to pass over to Mr Ted Lee to to give us an an overview of the paper and follow through to a discussion listening. Thank you.
thank you, Chair, David Dudley, the head of transport strategy.
thank you.
so just a little bit of background as to how this paper has come about, in 2022 the Council adopted a new walking and cycling strategy, and, within that strategy, means a programme of actions that the the the the the in them about how we can encourage greater degrees of walking and cycling in in in the borrower one of those,
recommendations and actions to come up with a a system of of quiet cycle boots, which would which would take advantage of boots', generally use sort of back streets and and and quieter traffic low roads, so, for example, as we we have our main schemes on main roads where you might want to put in,
cycle lanes and segregated cycle lanes and quite significant amounts of physical interventions. What we're proposing here is it is nothing like that. It's more about just simply encouraging residents and others to use quiet, convenient routes that can get you from fo fruit food above and consequently, in terms of interventions. We're talking primarily about signage about, maybe cycled logos on on on the on the surface and where we're looking at the public highway. Also, there were some potential barriers at at crossroads and and other junctions which we might need to a fifth think about putting in in measures
in terms of in terms of the Max, I think, and I think I probably do need to mention quickly on on on on the Commons quite clearly, as Members will note by just looking at the maps in the back of the paper, the comments are actually quite crucial here in some matches they're used by lots of cyclists, often using the routes which are not expressly permitted by for cycling, and what we're trying to effectively try and do it is to try and establish verb more and better routes through the comments, but also to try and manage and manage the cycling activity as well, so that it doesn't interfere too much. We've we've we've over users and I think in that sense, I think the MAC are fully in support of the need to try and encourage greater level of degrees of cycling within the Commons, but clearly have some some challenges and issues about what's proposed and when clearly we're happy to carry on discussions with them on that, I would pick up with it as Councillor may or may Orkest says we've never really assumed, we don't consider that lighting would be, would be needed and never proposed lighting of of paths in the parks, and similarly, there is not a proposal for any 7 metre wide wide path. As far as surfacing is concerned, I think that's something that we'd quite like to discuss in terms of we may be able to actually make some improvements from from some of the old and old tarmac paths might actually be might be made. Look more like you would expect a finding in a common incident as some sort of bus stick or loose gravel type type type services. So
so on that grains, I'd say we're happy to have those discussions with them.
are picking up in the for, almost in the first bit of the summer, we really, where we say the owes, a series of boots are subject to an initial round of consultation with the aim of finalising proposals and prioritising the order in which the routes taken forward, so there is no necessarily no guarantee that any particular route will be taken forward and in from the discussions tonight I imagine a boot that involves the Commons might be something that would be not the number 1 route that would get would be implemented straight away and would require significant amounts of discussion, but hopefully that's help help with Members members and I'll I'll leave it there, thank you
thank you very much, Mr. Ted Lee and say a penalty questions, Councillor Hamilton.
thank you very much Chair, I've read the recommendations repeatedly and I think it's it gives me you know good comfortable. We are being asked to digitise to consider these routes. I'm very grateful for the deputations that we received. I think it's very clear that Councillors, Graham and Burchill have put forward some significant concerns about the the scheme in in in Wandsworth Common and I hope that at future meetings we are able to hear from further deputations from them and other residents about that particular scheme. But I am content to support the report tonight because it is simply a consultation. The only question I would have is whether we can have a little bit more information about how the process will work, what this new software tool is and how we can make sure that we get the maximum possible inputs from residents on this. I'm drawn to the the previous paper, where we, this committee, did consider some changes to to the roads that proceed only a relatively small sample size of consultations and I'm keen that if we are to do this and we also adopt what is a pretty ambitious programme of measures here, but we hear from as many residents as possible, so if you could give a bit more clarity on that process, I would greatly appreciate it. But consultation is always good and I think the more deputations we could have from residents and councillors from not inside this committee, the better.
thank you, I'll pass back to Mr today, but I think until that we've used, we've used it on the tutted at the recent Totterdown state consultation, and it was proved to be a bit more engaging and kind of yeah, but yeah, I'd say and then I'll pass to Mrs. Dudley who is more of an expert on these things.
I I wouldn't necessarily say I was Councillor, but no, we are. We will work with our communications team to ensure that the consultation is, you know it is properly advertised and and to ensure that we have the right levels of engagement on it. What I would say at this stage is that it is as at this level of consultation, where we were were not specifically consulted on individual measures. As such. It's really these remote routes, so they the long loops would is there something missing. Would you have a this road rather than that road? It's really that sort of level of engagement we want, because I imagine quite a lot of the Councillors yeah might be interested in in other things as well. Thank you
sir, did you have a question that a follow-up question to that? I hope for further question and I will give give you that because, yeah yeah, you're conscious here and you're in this evening and then I'll I'll move on to them, but they call Higgs pupils, as I am aware, are receiving thanks very much. I'm just just one question, is it possible you could share with all of us the process that's actually gone through to make sure that that consultation is as wide as possible, because I have heard in committee before that as many people as possible will be consulted, but I never quite sure the the metric that's used to talbot's assessed, so that would be just good to get some clarity on. You may not have the answer tonight, but if it could be shared later that would be great. Thank you
sir, thank you, I think so I think I saw Councillor Apps and then Councillor Belton next.
thank you very much, I noticed in paragraph 12, it said that 13 of these 15 routes going to public consultation are chosen on based on deliverability, I noticed there was a, there was a sort of tree protection issue with some of the routes, but can you explain to us about how you measure deliverability as as part of this process? Thank you.
at this stage we only really ruled out something we thought was physically impossible to do and therefore wasn't worth consulting on in the first place and and, and it was quite clear on that particular example where you couldn't provide a bit of meat because the the trees just their roots just to spread into the space and there was just no point in taking that and taking that further.
thank you, Councillor Belton.
thank you Chair, I'm just a little bit concerned that we're getting a little bit too defensive about this, so let me just for a moment so.
in a world where which is heating so rapidly, it's frightening just looking at how hot it is here in February, we've gonna say, heating, so rapidly, it is frightening
where the major means of transport, apart from walking, of course, which is almost pollution, and the climate and free impact free, is cycling.
a major growth area and where.
death, unfortunately, and accidents hit the users more than other things. My goodness me, it's about time we had lots of straight, safe cycling routes and the more the merrier and let jolly good thing, and I hope we do a lot more because this world is going to burn up very rapidly unless we expanded a lot, so I don't want to be defensive about this by all means, let's take all two safeguards, but let's be proud of the fact that we're going to get some cycle routes, some substantial ones. Can I meanly say at last, because we need them
thank you, Councillor Belton, I don't think that requires an Ofsted response, but I burned up, I know I would beg you into you, interject what I would like to say is thank you to our team of officers who have looked at and worked on the these routes and also have have earned Councillor Yeates as Cabinet Member who have also looked at kind of prioritise areas which are lower in in transport.
in areas as highly in terms of their accessibility, so our thanks go to them for the presentation this evening and Councillor Taylor, sorry, next, thank you Chair, yes, I very much welcome the proposed links between Roehampton and Pat me.
would there be more bicycle provision at Putney station in order to accommodate them, and also has a similar link between Roehampton and Barnes station being the consisted?
I think thank you Chair.
there is a separate programme for cycle pumpkin which how we, which we do intend to ensure adequate provision, is at the stations. There already is quite a lot of stoic cycle parking at Putney, or our colleagues put in a sort of double standing Disraeli Road. Relatively recently we do struggle a little bit for space main stations, but where we can find more more parking weekly clearly will, in terms of Barnes, Barnes already has a cycle route. Sorry, the Woolhampton already has a cycling route towards Barnes on private lane. We have struggled to think of ways to potentially improve that and of course, once we get to Upper Richmond Road, then we we hit the red route and another London Borough of as well, so it's not it's not proposed in this paper as a quiet route, because that route at primary lane isn't isn't particularly quiet, I'm afraid
thank you, Councillor Richard.
thank you, I read this with interest because I think I'll probably cycled every single one of these routes that have been proposed and a couple of things I'd like to pick up on, linking to what Councillor Tyler says.
we haven't mentioned with the roots about working with Merton and Richmond on routes 3 4 and 10 what happens is, of course, when you cycle you don't just stick in your own borough.
the best route through to Wimbledon Common, for example, moves you into Wimbledon Park and I'd be very happy to I, I'd be very interested in.
ha, thinking about with the quiet routes, how we link with other boroughs.
also on group 3 I I love the bit that said, the gradient makes this difficult it does safe, pushing would be wonderful.
as somebody who pushes her bike up Woodspring Road every time I go up, Woodspring, Road, I can't make it to the top.
I'm not getting an electric bike yet, and the last one about that sorry was the one that I think might be missing is through Springfield and Springfield through the new estate, Springfield and Springfield Park, I think they've actually got a 5 mile an hour limit, it might be 10 but through the State,
if that's helpful and I've got loads of other comments, but I'm sure I can use commonplace to give them to you, thank you.
I'd interested today if you add anything, you're into conveyancing, and that no sent me a list Councillor, when will that take them on board, thank you.
thank you, I'm just checking round to see whether you've got any further questions on that paper, no Councillor Hamilton you go now, thank you, so thank you, colleagues, and thank you officers again for this paper, so the next step is to ask the committee whether they agree to support the recommendations to the Executive in paragraph 2 of the report and where the Executive are noted to note the progress to date on an understanding of the feasibility of delivery and, crucially, referring back to earlier conversations, approve an initial round of public consultation on the routes as recommended by officers, so can I ask all those in favour of this to please raise their hands and that's unanimous, so thank you and thank you Mr tiddly for that. We are now and just punchers that this this happens. Occasionally we are moving to the strategic planning element of the committee. We have a few reports that that come so, and this is one of them. So for anyone watching engaging this evening, we've got a paper now being presented to us this evening by Adam Hutchings and grace kindness on raising the bar. So if I can pass over to you please

4 Raising the Bar - Guidance Document (Paper No. 24-54)

thank you Chair.
so this report recommends adopting a new guidance document titled raising the bar early engagement guidance for applicants. The purpose of the guidance documents is to set expectations for high quality engagement for applicants. The document defines what is expected from good engagement, includes the identification of the types of community groups, who should be included and provides guidance on what an engagement strategy should include in how it should be delivered. Document also sets out what is required, depending on the scale of development and a commitment to monitoring going forwards. The document would be digested and easily accessible on the Council's website, using the existing protect, grant funding secured from government and implementation of the guidance would be through reviewing the Planning Department's procedures, but would be through a combination of validation, changes to PPA agreements and policy implementation.
chair, may I draw Members' attention to a correction which was noticed by Councillor Pritchard's due to a PDF error, a number of the scenario tables have not been captured in the final published version, however, these have now been corrected in the copy you have before you so drawing attention to pages 37 39 43 and 44. Those tables
and now inserted, and they show how the guidance would be applied in those specific scenarios, thank you.
thank you very much and I'm just looking round the
Councillor Belton, first of
yeah, it is, do I have to ask questions, I can make comments, I'll say, Well, I'm making them anyway if you advocate them constructive, I mean, I've never been able to stop you before and I hope they usually construct it.
not always, of course, when I'm attacking the Tories but unusually I'm not doing that on this occasion.
I think this is really smacks of motherhood and apple pie I really do.
I hope I'm being over cynical, but it seems to me that's the case, it sounds really good, doesn't it early community engagement, guidance and, coming from this government is thinking more of a wow, that's really good and something that should be achieved.
but first of all, it's not been going to be achieved with public money. The early engagement is, I think, meant to be done by the developer and not by the lone local planning authority. Now, speaking as the local planning authority's planning applications chair, I find that quite useful in the sense that we won't be expected to do all the consolidation, but nonetheless the public think that we should, which is interesting and the ones often criticised and as in their role as Committee Chair for not having ensured an OS consultation was done so good. The developers going to do the consultation but at the same time this government likes to talk about
removing regulation and control from the private sector, so one wonders quite how it's going to do that and it also wants.
dynamic growth from the private sector and, at the same time as its imposing extra cost on on the private sector. So it seems to me to be all kinds of problems here. I noticed in the paper Ed makes it clear that consultation at the moment is not a material consideration when it comes to planning applications, but I get the impression that it might be slightly more than material at Brigg or a consideration afterwards, though I still don't imagine they get much support for turning down an application just purely on the grounds of
not being enough consultation in the background, however, is obviously an intriguing development and I'd really like to ask.
driven out to others the actions how he thinks.
we are going to work out the relationship between this aspiration and the materiality of consultations as far as the planning applications committee is concerned.
thank you, Councillor Bolton, I'll bring my colleague Grayson as well, I'm sure he will have a couple of things to say and just just on the the point about material considerations.
you are right to point out that the guidance document itself has somewhat limited material weight, however.
it, it's gonna, be used in PE pre application discussions and the, as it is the expected standard going forward and then the the teeth of the kind of accountability would then be picked up at the validation stage, where it's within the planning department's power to to to not validate an application depending on the standard that the standard have the standards being met from the guidance through the application and or in the pre-application process.
in one way and and and then again through to the application stage visit there's a policy in the Local Plan policy LP 1, which is called design, led approach which states that applicants must demonstrate meaningful and consistent engagement with local communities and to give them the opportunity to shape development from the early stages throughout the process and through the construction. So there's there's a a policy hook there as well, so the Committee paper can can can hold applicants accountable and in policy terms, and so whilst the the the the guidance documents itself, as material, were limited, limited material web, because it's not a Local Plan and Development Management Plan documents, the process itself can and we're looking as as identified in the paper to kind of cement. Some of this guidance in a revision to the Council's Statement of Community involvement, which is a legal document which does carry a material weight and and one that is
it is referenced in the validation checklist of which applicants are required to demonstrate.
day and night.
Major, I think it's brief Councillor Vassiliou, that's my thanks, I'll I'll be very brief.
so we're looking forward to creating a protocol that we will be able to.
not quite enforce, but it heavily encouraged developers to pursue is that the roughly right.
yeah, I mean we, we, it's the start of a process, really we, we've never had this kind of.
rigid kind of accountability before we do have an existing statement of community involvement, but we're looking to put resource to scrutinise the statements of community involvement, which is perhaps not not done, this is as good as it could be is following the guidance,
so it's something that kind of will will improve as times time goes on, and it's kind of the kick-off the kick-off kind of paper for that.
thank you, Councillor Hamilton.
thank you very much officers of Surrey did I am anything I missed, it was the point, sorry, yeah, sorry, this is a clarification to your question, Councillor Belton, the first question you asked the guidance. This is guidance for applicants, so this does actually cover council led schemes, as well as PR. I'll draw your attention to paragraph 15, which sets this out in detail, but as part of the data analysis and the methodology, we did look at Council led schemes, and in this instance it was the Winston in York Road estate regeneration, including meetings with the Housing and Regeneration Team who have been involved in the production of this guidance. So it does apply to all applicants, not just developers, although
thank you, my apologies for that, then Councillor Hamilton, going back to you very thank you very much.
I think clearly when it comes to to planning decisions, beauty is very much in the the either beholder and I think there's obviously also a big difference between planning law and what individual residents may consider desirable, and I think that whilst we are far better off in Wandsworth some of the borrowers there are some, I think, pretty truly awful buildings that have been built in this borough I won't name any so please don't try and pressure to do so.
question is basically around the Wandsworth design panel, which obviously have been in force for for some time under the sort of principle of general consultation and doing things well will will develop but still be encouraged to engage with the Wandsworth design panel or is there something we could do actually to bring about a bit more of a sort of renaissance for that body to make sure actually the good design, beautiful design nice places are more taken into account.
some of the schemes I think you've seen in recent times, yeah absolutely so, this paper recommends that schemes continue to attend, as I am of the panel as they currently do.
one of the recommendations from this guidance is that we expand the design review panel to include a focus on collaborative design and to just ensure that there's that additional support and scrutiny for the process as it develops, and the key thing here is linking the engagement to the design.
which is currently can be quite a dour distance process so.
sometimes you know, Con consultation or engagement is used a bit further down the line, and this is about making sure that conversation happens early, so it feeds into the design process, it's giving people more opportunity to influence what they consider beautiful in their area, because, yes, it is subjective I'll send you my demolition list.
for a moment on that, sorry TfL as delinquent and then to Councillor Apperley yeah, just I mean.
Councillor Hamilton said Renaissance, I think I've sat on three this month, is it's not a renaissance, it may be an expansion, a very welcome expansion, I might add, but there is very active.
thank you, Councillor out.
thank you on page 25, paragraph 8 it talks about co-design models and shared decision-making, and
I guess what I want is to know how this would be experienced by the residents, so if there's a group of residents, there's gonna be an infill site, perhaps with a new residential scheme, how would this what would be the process for the four that you know what would be the ideal model and you know can you think of somewhere where that's worked really well anywhere really?
yes, so the reference to co-design models. It's just to add, I'd actually prefer, if it's OK, to draw your attention to figure 2 on the on the guidance document, which sets out what you could refer. Yes, sorry figure. 2, which is on page 5 of the printout, has a diagram which shows the impact of decision-making on engagement processes, so that ranges from informing consulting, involving collaborating up to empowerment at the latter stage. So a co-design process would aim to share decision making. I mean you'll be moving higher up the impacts of that decision making process. Informing at the latter end is the sort of things like sending flyers and communications. Consulting means that you're taking people's considerations into account. We have obviously had some references to consultation already this evening and, as you move up the scale that that decision making impact gets greater
typically, a true co-design process takes a lot of resources and time and typically in London, those scheme that's that tends to be done for smaller schemes.
sort of public realm design, and there's a lot of good examples in the Thames Meades regeneration project, which are focused on green space.
so I think what the guidance suggests is that it's a case by case basis, so what is appropriate for each scheme, for example, it might be appropriate for some schemes to co-design something like the brief for a community space, but co-design for a full planning scheme would require a lot of investment, so I think,
and in most cases you would need a combination of different methods, so I wouldn't recommend a blanket approach, I think it is a case by case basis based on what will have the most impact and value for local residents and would give the best best outcomes for the scheme itself.
if that answers your question.
thank you, Councillor Crichton.
thank you, I just first of all like to go back to the limited material, the planning weight.
if I've understood this correctly.
what this enables us to do is be more firm on what we're expecting the developer to produce, and I think again, if I've understood correctly, that means we can go back if they don't produce it.
but once it has been produced to the standard, that's the point where the planning application starts is that pretty one and Wandsworth as the planning authority will determine whether it's met the standard, including what you've said about.
you know, you might specifically want to co-design some spaces, but others.
you might yeah, I can think about you probably wouldn't want to co-design half of St George's hospital, because it doesn't work like that exactly so the guidance recommends that during the pre application discussion, the applicants would produce an engagement strategy that we would have sight of asked at a very early stage, so we can have that conversation with them to set out what would be appropriate for each scheme, as I was just saying.
and that, in that producing an engagement strategy is something that's quite new and it would just give us that oversight of the whole process, but yes, you'll correct, it would then go through the normal pre planning application process, but this is very much focused on the early stage when we have the most chance of having impact for those schemes before any decisions are taken.
thank you.
I think from what I'm hearing tonight, I think the one thing that is quite important is residents want to feel that they'd been consulted in one of the paragraphs I think it's 8 is you.
sorry is one of the paragraphs, it's worth saying that good quality engagement doesn't necessarily mean your everything's going to change.
my sense about how this is delivered to residents and explained to residents is we need to think about.
how we make sure that residents understand what this is that makes sense, and that's a question for you to go away and think about.
and the other one is very, very specific at paragraph 23.
how quickly can we sort out the planning website?
because even for somebody who knows what they're looking for, which I would say I do actually coming out with the right document and in my case it's usually the one of the design documents that gives you a good sense it, it's actually really hard to find, can we do something like that quickly?
we are definitely reviewing the web pages, as you've mentioned, we know that there are things that we can improve. It's part of the recommendations that we are doing internally to address some of the issues as to the speed. I'll take that up with development management because we need to work together on that. But yes, you are, you are correct, a lot of this is about communication and clarity and being very clear with residents what they can expect and then delivering on on what we say that will deliver. Can I just push on that is
can some, I'd be really interested to know when we could expect a change on those website I will get that to you.
OK, thank you very much, go to Councillor Belton, and that will be the final question for this round, the logic of all this presumably is that if the planning application is validated and the census is its conforms with, is compliant with policy and it's been through the whole process,
you're getting near to the situation where the part of the planning applications committee will be virtually, it will be very difficult to reject something that's got upon gone through all those validation and acceptances. So the planning application is just overseeing that there has gone through all the stages relative to now. Perhaps, yeah nodding I had agreed yeah, yes, and in there's the opportunity to do so with that narrative, within the committee report, to kind of show show of the the raising the bar guidance regarding how the applicants have have actually conform to that to that guidance, and I will
to put that as a negative, because presumably that shows a successful discussion between planners, councillors and public yeah yeah.

5 Queenstown Road Corridor Scheme (Paper No. 24-55)

OK, thank you all for your questions and for their input tonight. So the Committee are being asked whether they agree to support the recommendation to the Executive in paragraph 3 of the report. Can I ask all those in favour to please read their hands and that is agreed unanimously, so thank you very much to colleagues for your presentation this evening. So now we are going to move back to transport and say the rest of the papers for this evening cover that area. The next item on the agenda is the Queenstown Road corridor scheme and we are going to go back to Mr Ted Lee for a quick introduction on that. I believe
poachers were just dealing with some technological issues again and we could probably get thank you, Mr deadly overdue or effortful, thank you, Chair I on Monday gonna say a few words on on this one Queenstown Road, I don't need to explain to members where it is or how busy it is.
it's it, it's it's, it's a very heavily cycled and a boost, and it's also a very busy bus route, and it also has a lot of the strategic through traffic on it as well, it picks it it.
there are quite a lot of cyclists, some arrive from Clapham and come up through the sort of Clapham Common area and for enjoying of Queenstown Road at Cedars Road and then and never a one one and never quite strong flow of cyclists join from supersedes from the Superhighway which comes from once worth and joins the Inner Queen Circus and consequently the rebuke from Queens Circus over Chelsea bridges extraordinarily heavily.
we are heavily trafficked, we've we've we've we've cyclists.
the proposal here is to introduce a a flagship, a flagship scheme that would provide the step segregated cycle facility and, at the same time, introduced safety measures for pedestrians as well, and it and in an overall improved public realm.
the scheme,
we have provided an interim scheme there as a lockdown sort of response measure, but that, of course, is is constrained really by the existing layout of the road and where the curbs are so this this proposal would would would effectively provide a new fabric for the road, it's it's it, it's it's well supported and a recommendation is to proceed to the detailed design and implementation.
thank you, Mr Dudley, okay, it's a colleagues now for any questions on this paper.
there are getting sick.
to it, if I mean, please note up, please thereof o once you know, if you think we're being now, he is, or is somebody get asked the question that Councillor Apsley, are you wanting to hear?
yeah, shall that's a kind of entertainment, whereas I'm just checking? Yes, I do yes, so this isn't actually might. The HRA is Popkin, some road which is in my ward, but this particular section isn't so, but is still of great interest to me as somebody used to cycle every day on my way to work no longer, sadly, but it certainly was a very scary bit of road, and also, I would say the bridge should be the next bit to come and the right turn on the bridge. It's really like to see some changes on, but going back to the bit that's our responsibility. It's great to see that 60% of people said there was likely to make them walk or cycle more
and I know it may not be possible, and it's a bit perhaps a little bit of a challenge, but I thought in future be really nice to do some kind of checking back on some of that data. You know where, where we do get those kinds of statistics just a kind of test if it bears fruit, are we able to measure that in in a period of time I know it takes a while for these schemes to bed down as we said earlier, but could we have a look at it? You know, after a year after two years and see if those, if those numbers are bearing fruit, thank you
yes, it would clearly be the intention to monitor the impact of it, and I imagine we will that's very much what we would want to do.
and additionally, I think we will have cameras on the road as well in any way, so it would be relatively simple to do.
thank you as a Councillor Pritchard, then Councillor meerkats.
thank you, I'm Mr Sidley at 1.00, of the things that is mentioned here is that this also gives us an opportunity to improve the public realm, I make the pavements nicer put some greenery in, could you give us an indication of when and where that's happening I've seen some trees but other small stuff,
that the Bud gathered answer is to say it would be subject to the detailed design process, Councillor Butt, but things like trees planting sustainable urban drainage benches, good street furniture as opposed to poor street cycle parking, and we have to you know we were aware really if that sort of package of things that we'd like to see improved and Inter introduced here and and and and and we would do that.
thank you, Councillor Marcus.
I'm beyond thrilled to see this paper come to Committee. I think if it's fantastic just thinking about the deputation earlier and about taking time for schemes to bed in and people to to use them, I think the Council actually does a hell of a lot in terms of bicycle training, the options for cargo bikes. There's a lot that we do. Is there perhaps a targeted approach that we could take to this? I'm thinking very blue-sky long-term future ones. Please got it in where we could look at targeting residents locally, working with schools, working with the park to encourage people to come and use it safely, perhaps with guidance with some of the things that we have in place already, but I think that would be really nice. As we say, it's a flagship scheme to yeah to just work with residents, have encouraged people to use it
yeah, yes, yes, I suspected that was a speedy answer.
yeah, I just wanted to come on to page 6 9, paragraph 19, just looking at the junction with Sopwith Way, this is actually probably one of the places where I've come closest to having a really bad accident with a driver cutting me up.
at high speed.
and I noticed that there's the raised table is something we're looking at.
I kind of remain concerned to make sure that that delivers the results we want in terms of the accident spot.
so what sort of plans do you have that I mean there's that the there's there and there's also the garage further down, which also causes and problems, in fact, probably more collie collisions have occurred at the the second point at the garage, what sort of monitoring are we going to do to see the impact of the changes that we're making?
thank you, thank you well, well again we will be monitoring and surveillance of that and doing questionnaires probably have users and asking their opinions as well, the the the designs of the analysis has certainly identified that southbound cyclists are generally at risk of vehicles piling from no or low side roads and the measures in the pie in the paper are intended to address that and we will clearly monitor how ha ha ha ha how that works in terms of the garage on the corner, I may I suppose it'd be interesting to see what might happen to that in the future is,
petrol becomes s, so you know a lot of amount are disappearing, but I'm not saying we've got, I've got no no knowledge of that particular garage and that, or what might happen to that in the long term.
thank you, I am just checking around, I think.
but no further questions or comments on that paper, OK.
thank you.
for that, and thank you, Mr Tidy, say. The Committee are being asked that they agree. Support for the recommendations in paragraph 2 of the report, which will note the progress to date and approve the scheme proceeding to detailed design and construction between Queenstown, Road and Chelsea Bridge and Queen Circus. Can I ask all those in favour, please, to please raise your hands so they pay to Queenstown Road is agreed unanimously, so thank you, colleagues, for for that and just to be clear because we took the item on quiet cycling routes earlier on, we are now going to move to item 7 on the printed agenda, which is the highways maintenance programme. When you pass on my colleague, Councillor Jenny Yeates in the second and also just issue an apology, because in the round in I realised about 10 minutes ago that when everyone did their introductions I didn't come to Councillor Yeats, so she would like to say a few words on this and welcome Councillor Yeats to take the next Committee
yeah, thank you very much, Chair yeah, so I'm really pleased that this paper is on for consideration this evening as it says it's the highway maintenance programme for 24 25 which comes to the Transport Committee every February to set out the roads and pavements that the council expects to renew in the coming financial year. However, it's important to note that while this paper deals with the current allocation in the capital programme for roads and pavements for 24 25 which, as the paper says, is 4.7 5 billion pounds that's the funding that's already allocated and approved in the council's capital,
budget as you may no, we did announce earlier this month that we are putting in place a plan to put in place a 10 year programme of investment in our roads and pavements, and our plans for that in terms of the financing are set out in the
capital, a budget paper that was published today and which will go to the Finance Committee for approval on the 27th of February and then obviously onwards to the Executive for approval. So in terms of what's in that Capital Budget paper, it basically proposes to double our investment in roads and pavements. So, as I've noted, in 20 or 25, the approved programme is 4.7 5 million and, following approval by the Finance Committee and the Executive, assuming that secured, this would go up to 8 million pounds for the coming financial year and then it would go up again to 10 point to 5 million pounds in 25 26 and will be sustaining that increase so that over the next 10 years will him be investing 100 million pounds in our roads and pavements, and the reason why this is really important and we've looked into the condition of our roads and pavements in great detail. Is that at the moment we're just not spending enough to stop our roads and pavements deteriorating each year, so while you know our council officers are working hard and we're spending money, unfortunately the condition of our roads and pavements is actually getting worse and I'm talking about the 97% of our roads.
and payments that the Council is responsible for maintaining. Obviously, the remainder of the roads in the Borough are our tearful red routes and tearful is responsible for their maintenance, but the great majority of our roads and pavements are the Council's responsibility. So to give you some examples, at the moment, 36% of our roads have such serious defects that they actually need resurfacing. They can't just be patched up again and again they need full resurfacing, and our pavements 31% of them actually need proper repaving, and obviously this is a safety issue. It just doesn't make sense to let our roads and pavements deteriorate, and this is bad for all road users. It makes our roads obviously less safe for cyclists and motorists and our pavements less safe for pedestrians. So we will bring another paper to the next Transport Committee, which is scheduled for the 2nd of July, which will be a further paper on the highway maintenance programme. To set out in further detail the use of the additional funding and subsequent to the approvals by the Finance Committee and the Executive of the additional funds. Thank you,
thank you, Councillor Yeates, and I agree that this welcome welcome news and we've certainly received, I've received positive feedback on when talking to residents who've seen that, so thank you, I'm gonna pass to Mr O'Donnell for a quick introduction to this paper.
thank you Chair. So just to add the the paper has appendix 1, which is the current planned series of of roads and pavements and Appendix 2, which in effect is a reserved list for those in Appendix 1, that the either aren't suitable due to further investigation or, for reasons, get delayed clearly with the potential additional funding that has now been announced appendix 2 will in effect, come into play. If you like, and I'm very likely a lot of that, if not all of it will be done as well. So just bear that in mind in looking at that, and that will include some significant sections in the boroughs, such as as a good section of Garrett Lane, which condemn the regular concern and correspondence and residents. The reason and the process of choosing and selecting the roads and pavements as distress is very much based on condition based surveys and officers, do follow up with investigations and checks of those roads and pavements to ensure they are the right ones being selected. I appreciate councils will always have their own pets roads and pavements. I would kindly ask, please, don't try and lobby for a specific road or pavement in your own area, because they have all been looked at, but obviously if you do have any the ones that are of particular concern, we're happy to look at those individually and have them inspected. Please note, this is planned maintenance. There is a separate work body that looks at reactive maintenance, which is around more minor kind of interventions like pothole repairs, et cetera, so it's not the full picture. Thank you.
thank you, Mr O'Donnell and Councillors who have sat on this, you know, it's a bit like Groundhog Day when this paper comes, and a specific rate is but a beach sign, it happens every time without fail.
colleagues, 0, I think Councillor Belsen and Councillor Hamilton.
I wouldn't be so.
so parochial, as to campaign from my own roads and pavements, Mr O'Donohoe, you must now be metal man, but but having said that, and you said they're all covered.
can we talk, can you say a bit more about the boundary between housing, land and general revenue account now, and I mean I know, roads that in my patch that are definitely housing revenue and I also know one or two were the two departments seemed to argue about it.
particularly on pavements, and it's not our pavement, is there pavement now, it's not a bare pavement, is there still some, and if you want proof of that, I can give you the absolute proof of where there was contention and it didn't apply are we sure that there are no areas of contention of the all resolved nowadays?
what I can say is that we've done a lot of work with our colleagues in housing and region to assist them with helping to identify and also to get them to undertake a revised or new series of assessments of their own estates and their own roads and their own pavements, there are always been every single borough in London, particular pavements or roads that are a bit grey I don't have historical records, it's just a matter of process,
but we are nailing those down, we are getting to a point of resolution, we are mapping them out much clearer now, so there is a nice clear list for both sides and also we're working in tandem with them to try and ensure that common sense prevails or if there is a small snippet of road or pavement that falls slightly outside a boundary it makes sense to do at the time we will try and pick it up with an Oscar for work, so we are working very closely to make a more cohesive and and hopefully coordinated response to all the concerns.
before I come to Councillor Hamilton, them just cannot bring Councillor Yeates on this point.
yes, thank you, Councillor Bolton, well, when I took over as cabinet member for transport I and started looking into the condition of our roads and pavements, I was quite surprised to find that the roads and pavements on our housing land are treated differently, and you know I learned that this is because you know housing land has its own special designation in law, but what I was very shocked to discover was that,
we don't have, or we did not have a detailed visual.
inspection of the roads and pavements on the housing land, because this this had not been undertaken, and obviously we want our housing estates and our residents there to be treated, you know with parity with residents that live you know in street properties.
so subsequently a lot of work ensued and some storage, Alan has said, a lot of discussion with housing colleagues and, as Ms O'Dornan says, they are now carrying out this detailed visual inspection of the roads and pavements on housing land, more money has already been allocated in the HRA for more repairs to roads and pavements on housing land and further funding will be allocated from the HRA if that is required so we were going to basically have.
exactly the same technical assessment for housing estates as we already have a very well established and I think you know from what I have seen a very well-managed process to assess the condition of our roads and pavements across the borough. We need the same system for our housing estates and that is now being put in place, but I do think it, you know I was shocked to discover that and I do think it represents the neglect of our housing estates which we did see previously and we are absolutely committed to putting right and I know that you know, Councillor Fraser had some very significant concerns with a very badly potholed road.
on the right Vale Estate in her ward, which it really took a very long time to sort out because of this discrepancy in how our roads and pavements have been treated in the past.
yes, and I put on record my thanks to Councillor Yeates for sorting that one because two years of asking one council yet to be able to sort this, thank you very much, Councillor Hamilton.
thank you. Similarly, on a on a local points, it would be tremendous to see the roads behind Bellshill, east and west states address because they are in a terrible condition and I also welcome the inclusion of Lakewood Road in this paper. I'm sure Mr Donald officers are tired of hearing from me about it and delighted to see it here, and I think this is a good paper and I I certainly welcome and the inclusion of these schemes and on on the list. It's more a question to Councillor Yeats about CFL
because so many of the complaints that I received, particularly with a sort of balsam lens on things don't actually relate to roads controlled by the borough and one of the biggest frustrations I have. If you take the example of Bedford Hill, which when you walk off Balham High Road, you walk onto an extremely well maintained, very attractive road that where there are problems with that road, we report them to officers. It's action very quickly, but one of the biggest frustrations I've had since becoming a councillor in Wandsworth is the fact that CFL are so unresponsive to any of the suggestions that we put forward. Whether that's on the Balham High Road repairing, cracked paving slabs, which we'd been asking for for two years now, whether it's actually looking at basic, attractive elements of streetscene, some to do with resurfacing some to do with plants and fauna, for example, to make things more attractive, in keeping with this report and whilst obviously we're making these reports can we also have an undertaking that the Executive will make a request to the CFL to be more respectful and more responsive to the needs of this borough, because at the moment I look at roads like the High Road in Ballymena, it's a a black hole when it comes to repairs, whereas you go off the High Road and things are actioned by our officers extremely quickly and I think that would be welcome not only in Balham but on many of the other routes in the borough that are controlled by CFL and that our residents just don't understand why we can't take action to fix them
yes, thank you, Councillor Hamilton, while we seek to work of the closely and collaboratively we with TfN, given you know the great importance of TfN for the roads in our borough. Of course it would help if TfN could have a proper long-term financial settlement Toefl, you know, was basically bankrupt due to Covid and had a series of very short term financial settlements, which was incredibly difficult for TSL to manage. They were locked in difficult negotiations with the Treasury for many months last year. Finally, they achieved a settlement which was absolutely critical in order to stop a redundancies in the north of England and for the manufacturing of new trains. That should have been ordered. So you know very late in the day that financial settlement was agreed, but the capital settlement was 150 million pounds less than a. You know, tearful deemed necessary to maintain you know all the very, very important services that they provide to our capital city, so you know I I, you know, we obviously want TfN to repair the roads and pavements in our borough and, as I say, we seek to work closely with them all the time. Our officers are in constant contact. You know it really would help if tearful finances could be put on a better footing,
but I don't know if Mr O'Donnell or Mr Ted Lee may wish to add anything.
I was just going to refer to paragraph 16, which gives an indication of some of the the the tearful settlement on what the Principal Roads, whereby on the last five years, we've only had limited funding and two of those five years, it just gives an indication of the fact that the scale of funding has dropped down quite significantly in relation to tearful supporting them via a network and a as calculator said the A roads that were particularly suffered in the bar.
thank you, Mr Donald, Councillor Pritchard.
thank you, these are sort of a set of linked questions to do with how we make the decisions, and so what I'd say is what a lot of residents will say is yeah, why isn't my road or pavement included, so I'd be very interested if the officers could actually clarify exactly the criteria for this so residents understand.
and include roughly how often I, how many years it takes between full resurfacing.
and then I've got a couple of others that follow and after that, if that's OK, would you want them all at once?
OK, the other one is about reminding residents how to report problems, so I think the I've seen him at this paving slab is very loose.
it doesn't mean the whole place needs re, you know the whole pavement need to be doing, so a reminder on how to do that, which I think has got a bit easier recently.
and actually, I've got one other thing I thought I'd slip in here, I think most of our pavement work is done by our own team. Is that not the key is by our own workers by our own teams, because those of us who are very interested in Chestnut Grove will realise its Wandsworth Council team and I think that the work that I've seen them doing has been really good and I've heard good reports about them and I actually think it's quite useful to bring that to everyone's attention that the
if I'm correct, the pavements are done by our own workers, who we're dealing with directly, thank you, Councillor Krejza, I think Richard Donner should be able to take most of those, though that's on a criteria reporting and who who who is repairing our pavements,
future yeah, so just to go through those are the criteria we use. We follow national guidance, which is set down by the Department for Transport. It's a 16 point criteria for assessing our roads, particularly as well as pavements, so it's done by qualified engineers. There's a kind of scoring criteria matrix that comes out of that. What I need to say is that whilst we we do have a five-year plan that does look ahead, the deterioration rate of roads and pavements varies massively between areas and on roads.
and therefore they do have to be regularly checked and reassessed. There isn't a kind of magic timeline in relation to how long, for example, a road takes forward resurfaced. It really is down to the nature of the road. Some will last five years and will last 15 years. It really is down to how it sometimes laid how the quality of the workmanship, or whether et cetera, et cetera, so it's simply a case of we have a very, very as because he gets a detailed visual inspection, that's done approximately five years, but we also have regular reviews and checks as it was inspectors and engineers that go round the borough and reassess these things in terms of reporting. There was a very clear online reporting system to be done, but we also take request directly, via e-mail or via other correspondence, and again we send teams out to look at those and check upon matters raised
and, as correctly highlighted, we use both our term contractor Conways who primarily focus on the roads and our own in-house direct labour organisation, who tends to focus on doing the paperwork as set-up.
sorry, this terror Donald, is that possible, then you've mentioned this 16 point list, is the that's something that could be shared with residents, or is it very technical? I just wondered, happy to share it. We weren't mean a lot to dare I say it, to, to to most people. It is, unfortunately quite quite technical in detail and estimate be anything other than just a statement of fact, unfortunately, but I I can share it, but I think I mean a lot to our people
thank you very much, a day, Councillor Belton and Councillor Pritchard, I think we took all your questions, there will be.
OK, Councillor Belton, Mr O'Donohoe, so we all know that capital investment in this country has been woeful for years and years and years when you say we're not investing at the rate, the roads are deteriorating, that's pretty bad, but how do we compare, I mean Isaacs s a table comparing all London boroughs and where we're still better than the rest because they're not funded even as well as we are or worse or what?
so there isn't, there isn't a table that sets out their data, but obviously we're aware of it of investment levels by a number of borrowers, I would say the current level, even the current level of investment by one of his higher than quite a lot of the other boroughs I'm aware of, and the movement towards the sort of scale of investment going up to around 10 million a year is higher than any other borough. I know at the minute in London, so it is a significant step and that will leave will lead to the betterment of what we've got out there in terms of roads and pavements.
thank you, so I've got Councillor Critchley, Councillor Marcus, and then I think I think we need to revoke them, sorry minds, a quick technical or quit.
possible error and Page 1 3 5 it says Gateside Road is up for proposed footway surfacing, and then it gives someone somewhere in full Cornbrook.
which Gateside Road is in Tooting Bec, not in full Cornbrook, I yes, that that's N, it's down for carriageway resurfacing, perhaps we can sort that out, so residents don't think they're gonna get something, they won't get.
thanks, Councillor, I'll I'll get there, one set of officers, thank you.
and Councillor me, OK is like volume of traffic and weight of vehicles taken into account in terms of how quickly roads deteriorate and is there other work that the Council could do to long elongate the amount of time that the roads can be used before they break down again?
yeah clearly clearly white vehicles and volume, which I do have a significant effect, and that's why again the the A roads tend to be the one that that bear the brunt of a lot of these things we do obviously do do resurfacing to different depths depending on the roads and what we have in terms of substructure and what we think will help last and help the road last longer.
but again, it's not an exact science, sometimes we have roads that are well laid, you'd have a thick surface put down and just simply don't last the test of time for reasons, sometimes almost unexplainable but are challenging to predict and that's why this needs regular inspection
thank you and sorry, I think I think we've had yet other questions there, so thank you for that and moving to a vote. The Committee are asked whether they agree to support the recommendations in paragraph 2 of the report and also I know it's not included in here but obviously noting that there will be a further paper to come on this on further schemes at the next Committee. So all those in favour, please raise your hand and that is agreed unanimously, so thank you very much and staying with Mr O'Donnell for the next few items. If Mr Donald, now we have got an operational review of CPS Ed's

8 Operational Review of CPZs in Magdalen Park Estate Area (D5 Extension), Putney Heath Area (P1 Zone), and Combemartin Road (Paper No. 24-58)

quit injured.
thank you Chair so again, just in terms of context, we do periodic reviews of controlled parking zones after they'd been implemented.
often within a reasonably sensible timeframe so that if there are adjustments often required, we have the ability to check how they are performing and then make any in effect, corresponding tweaks, and this paper in effect is is focusing on three areas.
3 CPS, eds, and zones, where there are recommendations for relatively minor adjustments to be made, particularly in terms of some of the layouts, and therefore the request is to make a small series of amendments to the traffic management orders to make those slight changes and amendments as set out and to allow the update of the relevant parking consultation webpages just to include an update of the outcome of that. Thank you, Chair,

9 Zebra Crossing Outside Hurlingham School on Putney Bridge Road (Paper No. 24-59)

thank you, Councillor Hamilton, thank you, thank you to our work from Mr Donahue, just a paper with no questions, then they thank you that was agreed unanimously, the records stay with Mr O'Donnell, the next item is to the zebra crossing outside herding him, school on Putney Bridge Road,
so in again, just by way of background, we have a wider programme of looking to continue to introduce further crossings within the borough, to reduce severance and improve accessibility, and again through submissions and representations and our own investigations, we've made a particular proposal here in relation to an additional zebra crossing and the recommendations focus on noting the the occur investigations on Putney Bridge Road,
approve the installation of a zebra crossing, as proposed on Putney Bridge Road, just north-west of the junction of of Woodham Road.
approve the removal of mini roundabout and Pennybridge Road, which is part of the facilitation of that and obviously undertake the relevant consultations related to that, thank you.
thank you Mouth, Councillor Belton may have agreed that Councillor Critchley does have a question she'd like to ask, so I'm sure we're heading in that direction, but, Councillor Richard, thank you very much and we actually had a an e-mail altogether from Councillor Locker.
and I sort of on, I sympathise about his the idea that trying to make.
it seems to me what he was what he was talking about was making a specific junction safe of cyclists, to make a right turn, I would just say the hull of Putney Bridge Road is actually quite difficult for cyclists, mainly because there's crossing point if you're coming over from Wandsworth by Wandsworth Park and you want to go through to Putney along the side routes which hopefully will hit the quiet ways Wadham Road is a turnoff.
as well, going left or right and for Park Road, and I actually wondered if, as per extending from this, we might be able to ask officers to have a good look at all the junctions on that road because the traffic volume was phenomenal and it's 900 vehicles that are over 900 biggest now which is huge and I think that scenario where cyclists could really benefit from some protected junctions if we were able to do a little bit more work on that whole stretch and it doesn't help there's another dip under a railway bridge there as well so,
that's my clean.
thank you, Minister Donohoe, yes, just to say that we do regularly review locations for obviously there's a series of factors that will affect both the number and location of crossings.
and, as you well know, that there is quite a challenging road all along there, but I will ensure that officers do respond back to you in relation to further review and and checks on the locations you raised.
thank you very much. I don't think there are any other questions or points so okay, it's happy to approve with say a show of hands. It's agreed unanimously, so thank you, so that was Zebra number 1 on tonight's agenda, seven under to a on agenda item 10 is outside Keith me, at primary school, on Oulton Road. Mr done, I don't know if there's anything they did, I'd add a no, not much to say, as you say, it's one or another request that's come in in relation to officers having investigated it on the back of petition. Installation of a zebra crossing, alter manager south-west of the junction with Highfield Road are clearly there to provide primarily a safer crossing for the CA for the Children's Charrington from
thank you very much, Councillor.
Councillor Taylor,
yes, I thank you, Chair, and living near this road, I very much welcome the zebra crossing since I've seen a lot of near misses there, and how long do you think it might take to complete this crossing?
so now that well, in the hope that we assume, we have approval from receiving it's just down to the relevant traffic orders and prioritisation of work, so we'd look to try and do that during during that, obviously the summer period so we will try and if we can get it in quicker than that but certainly within months as in 2 3 months ideally we'd like to get that in process and programmes.
maybe thank you very much that day, are there any other points and can I ask colleagues if they support the recommendations on this item, all those in favour, please raise your hand.

11 Local Implementation Plan Funding 2024/25 (Paper No. 24-61)

item is agreed unanimously, so thank you very much and thank you very much, Mr O'Donnell, we are now going to move on to agenda item 11 on the local implementation plan funding that's nice Maher gonna go back to Mr Ted Lee for this one yes s, thank you Chair. Every year the council receives grant from Transport for London to help deliver the new Mayor of London's Transport Strategy at a local level.
or, as a bit of background, the the funding that we've been receiving has fallen and and, and it started to fall in the aftermath of the a financial crisis, when local government and transport were not protected departments.
and and following the lockdown and we previously discussed the challenges at TFA all have had with funding, since then, it's fallen fallen still further, that the paper sets out those measures on which we wish to spend Transport for London funding in the coming year and just as a or judges are another couple of quick points.
we've been relatively fortunate in Wandsworth by having our own capital funds and capital o systems in order to be able to continue to continue to provide new improved facilities in in the Barber Mew a lot of the TFM. Funding is now allocated to two more under the revenue schemes like cycle training and cycle promotion School travel Plan in because those are that those are schemes which is usually a little bit more difficult to secure funding for because they're not capital programmes, so so the sir I say the the the paper is before you listen to note that the those projects and it's proposed that the the it's recommended. Thank you
thank you, Mr Dudley, got any questions on this paper.
if a Councillor Pritchard is that yeah yeah go yeah, God?
I just say I am particularly keen to see the signalisation study on plough Plough Lane Somers Town, because, obviously that bit is outside the football club, it happens, then we move into our area and I'm afraid it doesn't.
I am very keen on the Merton scheme and also Mr Cilliers, you may well know is AFC are very keen on encouraging people to cycle, so the club has its own cycle facilities, low lockable cycle facilities, and therefore anything we can do, I think, to help encourage more people use that area and particularly more of us to cycle to our foot game of football would be really useful.
yes, and perhaps also just to say that you have a good re, good use of TFM funding is often to develop schemes to do the feasibility, the modelling, and then, if a scheme arises as a result of that, then we can approach the Council's own capital bid to be programmed for it.
thank you any more comments or questions on that paper.
now lovely OK, so they commit the the committee are asked whether they agree to support their own recondite BHA recommendations in paragraph 3 of the report, so all those in favour of this please raise your hand, the paper is agreed unanimously, so thank you Mr tiddly.

12 Setting of Charges - Transport (Paper No. 24-62)

moving on to the final paper of this evening, we are going to move to the setting of charges, paper and Mr. Mullin, who has been waiting patiently all evening, so thank you, thank you, Chair, could even in Committee this report sets out the proposed fees and charges,
for services within the Transport Committee covers five main areas, Building control and Development Management within Planning and Planning, and Constable, or Planning and Strategic Transport parking, other traffic and engineering fees and the release of information for CCTV purposes. The full list of fees as set out in Appendix is 8 e. The overall approach taken by the Council for setting fees and charges is to set those charges, such as to minimise any indirect subsidy from council taxpayers and service users through the covering the cost of the Council's provision of that service, whilst mitigating the impact on vulnerable users or with protected characteristics or protected resident trawler. So the the approach is generally that the majority of charges are then subject to an annual inflationary uplift
this is where the additional cost pressures of the Council over the year and then reflected in the the fees charged, so the approach in general is for fees to be increased by approximately 6.7%, with some rounding there or thereabouts there are a number of fee, specific and service specific circumstances where this
is a different approaches proposed and that set out within the main body of the report?
I'm gonna touch on parking briefly because it said it's a key area that affects lots of different people across the borough, so the parking fees have been subject to slightly irregular fee increases over the years, so they're not typically subject to a sort of a 12 month cycle of fee review, so it's it's very varied from 12 months and then up to sort of two years and 18 months and then a little bit more two and a half years over the last 10 years the previous fee change for this committee was in fact 12 12 months ago, but the the the fee review prior to that was taken to the committee in June 2021 and was implemented in October 2021 as well.
I say at the previous fee review, which was during the point of significant cost of living pressures, the Council attempts to insulate residents from the impact of the and other parking charges so the fees were capped at 7% and a number of the parking fees were in fact lower than 7% savings from five and a half or 5.6 rather to 7.
which was significantly below the rate of inflation that has that would have taken place between the last the review, which was in June 2021, so then obviously the the fee date there was then at that point.
so I think when when we've looked at this review and taking all into consideration, there is a proposal for a slightly higher increase of 9.6% to apply across the majority of parking charges for various council objectives, so to maintain traffic management and wider transportation policies. When you take the to the increases, so the the proposal for this year and the proposal for last year and you compare them to inflation from the time that their charges were reviewed in June 2021, the combined increase is between 15 and 16, which is below that of the rate of inflation of 18%. So I appreciate there's quite a lot of dates in in in in that there in that statement, so I'm very happy to answer any questions. There are also other elements of the parking charges which have been proposed to make the fee structure fairer and better reflect the impact the car users have on the roads within the borough. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Morlan
to be fair to Councillor Hamilton as a question.
take a good questionnaire and a couple of comments, I suppose on the on the paper, I thought that paragraph 400 might say a revealing line. It could simply be the council's charging policies to maximise charges for specific services, and I think that's been very much born out by what's in this paper. I think the 9.6% increase that we're seeing in parking charges is clearly significantly above above inflation of 4%, which is where we're standing now and, I think by the end of the year or certainly early next, we can expect to see inflation potentially being being half of what it is at the moment, but the reality is that gives a lot of these charges is if you look at a a two-car family, that's gonna be 82 pounds more a year if you look at a business with two vehicles, that's 235 pounds a year in additional charges
I think going into the last election as well, the the the Labour party had a manifesto which very much focused on environmentally friendly measures and I'm not sure quite how those environmentally friendly pledges the administration made really do tally would be the abolition of the reduced rate for electric vehicles. What we're facing now is very much a sort of blanket a blanket policy it's abusive comments potentially from Councillor Yeates about how you square your environmental credentials with with this move away from essentially what was a pretty good policy to encourage a modal shift towards those lower lower CO2 vehicles
the other thing I just also also call out, as we hear a lot from the administration about,
support for cost of living, but again, when it comes to the charges being placed on business here for their own permits, when it comes to the charges here, for parking permits for individual members of the public, again I mentioned the 82 pounds more a year as well even as the the 10% increase that even doctors parking bays and sole traders will have.
it doesn't really seem like a package of measures that are on the side of business on the side of families, or we're doing much for the cost of living crisis, so I'm afraid it looks like Labour are hitting people in a pocket at a time people really can't afford it.
yeah, I mean against Mr Moorland and then Gautier Kasiano after them.
thank you, Councillor, I'd and then on the first point, I think it's probably worth mentioning when you you mentioned about the the maximisation of charges, I think that would typically refer to other discretionary services where the Council seeks merely to recover the costs of providing the service rather than generating a surplus from from any income so that that's the purpose of the the various charges that we've set out here which is not to not to not to generate revenue other than to cover the costs.
thank you for that and Councillor Yeats.
yeah, thank you, Councillor Hamilton for those comments and questions, so I think you know when we talk about percentages, it's useful to translate those into actual numbers. So at the moment a 12 month resident permit is 187 pounds. If you apply online and basically virtually all resident permit holders apply online, there is a very small number of applications which are generally for business park permits which are by postcode the counter so that online price is basically the price that residents pay for a 12 month resident permit, so the increase will take the price of the permit to 205 pounds, so that's 18 pounds more per year, which is 35 p more per week. So I think it is important, too to note that and you know put that increase in context. Of course, we absolutely appreciate that these are difficult times for many people, given the cost of living crisis
and that there are some people on lower incomes. That clearly you know, obviously need to have their car, so it's important to know that everybody who lives on our housing estates, which is a very large number of families and they don't pay for parking so many of our estates, there's there's there's no parking controls and that works. Okay. Residents can find parking spaces and then some of the estate to have the parking regulation schemes where residents have parking permits but they don't pay for those. Of course, also all holders of disabled blue badge badges. They can also park for free and we have introduced, as you may know, the sustainable travel financial assistance scheme last year, which is to provide residents on low incomes with grants of 1,000 pounds who have known you less compliant cars, and this has really helped some low income residents who need
or a car who need to purchase a compliant vehicle and I have heard from officers and have been very struck by.
you know the stories of the people who have been supported by that scheme people on low incomes in very difficult circumstances, who need a car for various reasons, for example, because they are caring for.
my family members with disabilities, for example, so then, in terms of you mentioned also the cost of living crisis, I think it's important to see the bigger picture here you'll have seen today our announcement that we plan to freeze the main element of council tax in Wandsworth which is a very regressive tax and this means that our residents will be paying the lowest council tax bills.
in the country, a once with a band D bill from April onwards, will be 961 pounds and that is the lowest in the country, and we are also increasing our cost of living support package. We are planning to increase that to 15 million pounds and that is the most generous scheme in the country and I've already you know, noted other ways in which we are supporting our residents, for example, doubling our investment in our roads and pavements. So I think that you know those are some examples of how we're supporting our residents and we're supporting those on lower incomes, and I think it is worth noting that
you know what at what did happen under the previous administration, so because I did look quite closely into.
you know what had gone on over the years in terms of parking charges, so in the nine years from 2012 to 2022, which was obviously under the Conservative administration, parking fees were always increased by substantially more than the rate of inflation. So, for example, in October 2013 they went up between eight to 15%, but inflation in the previous year was just 2.2%, then in June 2019 they went up 10%. The inflation in the previous year was by point 7% the average above inflation increase between June 2012 and June 2021 was 4.9%
now we have actually as.
Mr Monaghan has noted, we will have increased
the
parking resident fees.
for the permits actually by less than the overall rate of inflation, if you look at the period that he was referring to earlier, but of course and of course it is difficult for the Council, because with high inflation, you know we have faced very substantial rising cross across the board which is difficult for the Council to manage because,
obviously you know funding from central government has not been sufficient to keep up with the rising costs be faced due to inpatient. I will turn now to the removal of the green permit discount. Again, it's important to look at you know what the numbers actually are at the moment at the moment, a green permit costs you 80% of the base permit charge of 187 pounds, so essentially you are paying 150 pounds for a green permit, so the discount was worth 37 pounds or 72 p a week and you will now pay the standard resident permit fee of 205 pounds, so you'd be paying 55 pounds more so that's 1 pound 6 p a week more now in terms of incentives to use eaves. Obviously we're keen for residents to use them eaves
as you have noted, Councillor Hamilton, one of our manifesto commitments was a more sustainable Wandsworth as well as more compassionate Wandsworth now in terms of incentivising EV use survey after survey, many of people, in terms of you know their decision whether or not to try to purchase an EV mentioned lack of charging infrastructure as one of the top three barriers for a decision on whether or not to purchase it need be, and that's why we have one of the biggest programmes at the EV charging installations in the country we currently have the fourth highest number of public EV charge points in London and we have an ambitious programme to expand the number of
EV charge points, both lamp column charge points and additional, rapid and fast charges in 2024. So I think that you know we are incentivising EV uptake by you know the installation of charge points, because obviously, if you're not confident that you'll be able to charge already be you not likely to get an EV now in terms of removing the permit discount. This is actually in line with your government's policy. At the moment, Eves do not pay fuel duty or vehicle excise duty, so the country is facing a large and increased reduction in revenues as usage of VVS increases, and this is going to be addressed by some extent by Eaves being charged vehicle excise duty as per petrol and diesel charges from 2025 which has recently been announced. So the removal of the parking permit discount is consistent with the national direction of travel to win eves of financial concessions, but to encourage EV usage through increasing charging infrastructure. It is also fond final point worth noting that while eaves are much better for air quality and than petrol or diesel cars. They do still contribute to pollution, they tend to be heavier due to their battery weight, which leads to pollution from tyre and road dusts and due to their weight they take up a higher toll on the road surface. As Mr Otto McDonnell mentioned earlier. Heavy vehicles obviously have a bigger impact on the road surface and therefore this contributes to the rising costs we face of highway maintenance. So I hope that helps you somewhat in terms of the points that you raised.
thank you, thank you, Councillor Yeats, for that comprehensive, but I am assuming Councillor Hamilton, that the addresses of all of your points and sets the record straight somewhat on the previous administration's record say.
I thank Councillor Gates for a full reply.
thank you.
is there anyone else who does ask the question or at this point, together with no okay, so thank you for that one, and thank you, Councillor Hamilton, for your question, as I was for a moment just I was lost in thought listening to Councillor Yeats there, so the Committee are asked whether they agree to support the recommendations in paragraph 3 of the report all those in favour of this please raise your hand, thank you.
although all those against 1 against and no abstentions, so thank you, colleagues, that now concludes the business of the Committee this evening, thank you all for your time this evening and can act.