Environment Committee - Tuesday 6 February 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Environment Committee
Tuesday, 6th February 2024 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

Good evening, everybody, we're gonna make a start now, please.
welcome to the meeting my name is Councillor Claire Gilbert, and I am the Chair of the Environment Committee, thank you all for attending, so I'll now call on the members of the Committee by alphabetical order could I ask you when I call your name to please switch on your microphone and can confirm your attendance and once you've confirmed please switch off your microphone.
going to stout start with Councillor apps, please good evening Chair.
good evening and then I have Councillor Brooks and Devonshire.
sorry buttons, Councillor Kirkley, please.
and Councillor Cook.
and Councillor Jeffery.
evening, good evening, Councillor Marcus, Harlow
I think we have good evening, I think we have apologies from Councillor Sita's, thank you and then Councillor White.
good evening and good evening to the other Councillors who are attending and all of the officers and folks in the gallery, thank you for coming, and also here with me is Councillor Judy Gasser, who is the Cabinet Member for Environment good evening everybody.
thank you very much, I'm not going to introduce all the officers at this point, because we've got quite a number of people in the room, but they will introduce themselves as we work through the papers.

1 Minutes - 23rd November 2023

suit up with apologies, so now we will just address the minutes from the last meeting of the Environment Committee, which was the 23 of November.
I haven't received any comments on the minutes, can I are there any objections to there's a maybe a matter arising from the minutes, Councillor Gasser?
yeah, just to say, at the last meeting we were speaking about Parkrun, and I mistakenly said that the friends of Battersea Park were very much in favour of Parkrun, and that was misunderstanding. We had been in correspondence and originally there had been very much against and they withdrew they decided they weren't against and I took that as approval of the Aga that I was a bit too overwrought and optimistic. They have asked me to make it clear that they're neutral. They've asked their members to give their own opinions, the friends himself, absolutely neutral, so I just wanna make that clear.

2 Declarations of Interest

thank you very much that that there will be noted, so that's the sort of matter arising from from the minutes, but the minutes themselves, I think we can all confirm, as a correct record set agreed, thank you, thank you very much, everybody next is item 2 on the agenda that's declarations of interest.
do I have any declarations of interest from any Members, Councillor White, please?
I'm a member of a community renewable energy Wandsworth, and it does have an impact on some of the things that we do, but I don't draw any financial benefit from my involvement perfect thank you, Councillor White, any other declarations of interest, no lovely thank you very much.

3 Wandsworth Climate Action Plan Update and Refresh (Paper No. 24-32)

we're going to move on to just talking about the order of the agenda this evening, so the original order of the agenda was set before some supplementary papers were circulated, so supplementary papers were circulated with regards to agenda item 7, so I'm going to propose that we reorder the agenda to consider this item item 7 as the second substantive item of the business on this agenda. That's after the first paper, which is regarding the ones with climate action plan. So could I ask for agreement from members of the Committee to that agreed? Thank you all very much, so that takes us then to item number 3 on the agenda, which is the Wandsworth climate action plan update and refresh, so that's paper number 24 32, and before I go to officers, I'm just going to ask Councillor gas so the Cabinet Member to give a little introduction, please. Thank you, yeah, thank you very much. I'm I'm delighted to introduce this paper our officers have been working very, very hard, really stepping up the action that we're taking, but we do have a crisis and we have to do everything we possibly can.
to mitigate that crisis, so this report looks at what we've done in the last year, our ambitious ambitious plan for the year ahead and our ambitious plan to be a Net Zero Borough by 2043, and that's not just the Council that's the whole of the borough and will be really stepping up our engagement with partners across the borough in the year ahead and this is all underpinned by evidence from a report done by consultants called antithesis, which Mr Hagel is going to talk about, so I'll leave him to introduce all the work that we've been doing and we're going to do in the year ahead.
then thank you very much, Councillor Gruen, so I think we have Mr Hagger, Ms O'Connor and possibly a number of other officers who can speak to this paper and also take some questions, I think, Mr Hagger, is it yourself is going first,
yes, thank you very much, so I just need to very quickly log into the meeting and then share my screen, so just a moment I'll do that.
so this presentation is going to go through a one of the appendices I believe it's Appendix D, which is the
Zero emissions pathways, analysis that was carried out by the consultants and feces, so I will.
going through that now.
so thank you very much Chair, thank you committee, so just a quick overview, this is the it's is gonna run through our next to your target and then also go through the emissions pathways analysis.
provide a brief overview of the report and then talk through some of the key findings as well, so are a little bit about on CSIRO target, so once the Council has set a target of being net-zero Borough by 2043, and that was agreed unanimously unanimously by Environment Committee back in November 2022 and this target is a science-based target calculated from analysis by the Tyndall Centre who are a very well regarded,
Centre for climate data and climate research, and this 2043 target aligns with the 2015 Paris agreement on climate change, this is aiming to keep global temperature rise from going above 2 degrees centigrade and try to limit as much as possible to 1.5, so this is basically Wandsworth for contribution to Paris and so that's what the target is based on.
but what we need to do is understand how we get to that targets and how we get to net-zero in ones with by 2043, so we commissioned sustainability consultants and theses to carry out an emissions pathway analysis for the borough and this analysis maps different routes to meeting Net Zero, and so I'll go through that in a bit more detail, but this gives us a really robust evidence, a robust evidence base and also analysis so that we can use this for prioritising, and this is actually being used in terms of developing the developing the the action plan for this year. So we've we've used this already for developing this one, and it's already proved proving to be really useful to, and that's why we've included it in the appendices to this report, and that's why I'm explaining this to you now as well, if you have looked at it
you'll know it is quite a technical report, it is heavy, on top of analysis and different options, different pathways stuff like that, so I just wanted to make sure that so I explained that a little bit because it's yeah high technical and it provides emissions from the borough, including sexual breakdown also shows different pathways of how we can reach net 0 and then also shows reduction pathways for each sector as well. She thinks quite useful to show the different contributions that needs to be made from different sectors and then it also has recommended actions in all sectors to reach net-zero
so this is a quick overview of the borough emissions, so it shows that domestic buildings make up 42% transport is 21% industry is 19% and then non domestic buildings are 17% waste and net agricultural land use are others. It's important to note that these are emissions that come from the borough, so these are effectively the scope 1 and scope 2 emissions that come from the borrower. This doesn't include stuff like aviation, it doesn't include stuff like consumption based emissions as well where there's it's different way of calculating it, so that's an important thing to note. This is wrong. What's actually coming out from the bar?
and then we've got the borough pathways analysis, so here you can see.
so scatter is the modelling tool, the emphasis used for modelling at different scenarios, so what they did was use input, the data for for Wandsworth put it in there and then saying so, but what's the trajectory, how do these things come out? So the business as usual scenario is where we carry on, we rely largely on gritty carbonation and we take a few actions, not too many, and this is where we come out, so you can see that there's not a huge reduction
then the green pathway is the high ambition pathway, this is where we take concerted action within the borough to advance stuff around buildings, decarbonisation, retrofit transport, decarbonisation take a very ambitious.
approach to this, and that's where we come out, the red one is the Mayor's GLA pathway and what they have set out in their modelling for the whole of London, and that's where we fit in the the dotted line is the tinsel aligned Paris pathway, so that's getting to 2043 so that we align with Paris you can see that there is quite a difference and the need for action is urgent if we are going to meet that target around 2043 and there is a need for concerted action across the board on climate change.
next bit is on the sector oral emissions, so this is some of the reduction pathways. It shows the amount, the different sectors need to reduce, and you can see domestic buildings is a really really big area that needs to reduce by a really really long way, and that's one of the things that we picked up that really stood out to us is that we need to do more around tackling those domestic buildings, especially around supporting retrofit across the borough, and that's come out in the action plan for next year. You can also see transport needs to decarbonise as well as a much smaller starting point, but there's a lot that needs to come out. You can also see non domestic buildings. Industry is slightly more difficult to decarbonise because it tends to be associated with
high end use, so that's not quite so large
and then recommended actions, so this looks at different areas and then looking at some of the some of the key actions that we need to be focusing and on prioritising so on buildings, especially we've got improving energy efficiency, reducing gas heating systems and then also thinking about the appliances that you use within those buildings for transport it's around travelling shorter distances, driving less switching to electric vehicles and also improving freight emissions as well, and then we've got other stuff and waste natural environment, energy supply as well as a big one around increasing our capacity within the borough to generate energy as well.
and that's those are the two main areas that have come out from from those recommendations, so in terms of key findings it, it really clearly shows that there is an immediate and rapid reduction in Borough emissions that is needed, and that requires is an action there's also a gap between the high ambition pathway and what's needed for net-zero in 2043, and that means that the stood out to us when we saw the report and so we asked how did we close that gap and basically that's around going even further going even faster?
also increased pace at a national scale around increased decarbonisation of the energy grid, increased funding and support, and a policy framework that drives net-zero and allows that to happen, and also enables local authorities to take the action that we know we can take as playing a leading role in terms of place shaping,
and it also needs more public involvement and more public drive around shifting actions and shifting behaviours as well, basically, the Council alone cannot meet Net Zero, it needs a concerted effort around the entire borough to come together on that 0 to make progress on this, so we need collaboration between the council and regional government so GLA national government, business, public sector and the wider public as well, I hope that's been helpful, a view of quite a technical report,
I am happy to take questions on that and also on any other things in the report, thank you.
thank you very much, Mr. Hagger, and unless any other officers want to come in at this point, I think we'll go to questions and I will just say I think it's an excellent report, it's also full of, I think, sort of symbolism and visuals that actually make a very technical piece of work very digestible, so I'm looking for hands for questions, Councillor Apps, please go ahead.
yeah, thanks very much, I find that absolutely fascinating, and particularly the degree that housing is such a big chunk of of the emissions that we need to reduce, I'm really interested to know if there's been a look at like different types of housing stock you know like an owner-occupied private rented also local authority, social homes, Housing Association and where we think the divisions are within that one and also if we're kind of conscious of I mean there are obviously some older buildings in the borough as well, which obviously are less.
sometimes harder to to reduce emissions with current standards, and whether or not you think we need more kind of radical look at how we reduce emissions from older buildings as well, but I don't know, I don't mind if we can't answer all these questions today but I think it's something that we as a borrower gonna have to really look at and really explore if we're going to actually meet this target.
thank you.
so in terms of what you are talking about about looking at the different types of of 10 years, what I've so, I also might have said the communications team and also the the data team are linked in with my team and so one thing we're looking at is looking at our population looking at home ownership in the types of kind of 10 years and seeing if there's different support that could be offered to those different groups and also different communications approaches as well, so we can get that information out, so what we're doing is really using the anti-Isis report and the loch the new census data to really build together a more complex and targeted communications and also policy development across towards retrofit
and then I think it was Tiger can talk about the more detail on that.
thanks him just to say that we're gonna be doing a retrofit strategy, that's one of the actions that we've put forward in the in the 2024 action plan, and that's gonna look in a lot more detail at stuff like different tenure where the emissions are what some of the options are and so we're gonna be doing quite a lot of work over the next year, six months a year or so to to pull that together so that we can have a much more detailed better look at what we need to do overall as a borrower to decarbonise buildings and especially housing.
and how we retrofit housing, so this can be a lot of work, I can't really answer all the questions I think we do need to, we need to do that really deep digging in on the back of this works to really have a comprehensive approach where we understand what the issues are for our borough.
and because this research done at London level or at a national level, we need to dig into what actually needs to happen in Wandsworth.
thank you, I think I saw Councillor meal because there's no notes to go ahead, please, thank you, this is not a question, but I'd think it's important to note one thing which stands out for me from narrows of the 21% of emissions come from transport transport is an incredibly easy way that you can reduce emissions by switching short journeys walking and cycling more as we all know, and this is kind of a plea really due to the opposition.
the facts speak for themselves. We are in a climate emergency and every single time we do anything that is aimed at increasing walking and cycling levels. In this borough we are met with opposition shameless opposition. For example, I'll read out a letter that went to residents in a neighborhoods mine about a scheme that simply wants to introduce two zebra crossings for schoolchildren to help towards school safely, in which colleagues of yours tell people that it will increase volumes. Increased congestion, decrease air quality and have an impact on residents. Now, as far as I'm aware, neither of those people are
you know, esteemed experts on air quality or congestion, they frighten residents into thinking that schemes that are there to improve this situation, backed by our officers, who are experts in their field, and purely for political local gain. These leaflets go out with your logo on in your brand scaring people into inaction, and I think frankly I think it's shameful and I want that firmly on the record. Thank you.
thank you, Councillor Marcus, I mean the though there is a lot in in the paper on active travel and
however.
and I know I am just looking at officers about the the minuting of those those remarks and thank thank you very much for making them, and we, I'm sure we'll hear from other other members, is there anything on the active travel aspects of the paper that officers would like to bring out at this point?
I know there's at the in in the appendix, for example, we are talking about what we're doing around improving cycle routes and some of the other work that crosses this committee and also the Transport Committee, so maybe there isn't a lot of time to dive into some of that work here but so I'm I'm not seeing anyone wanting to take any points on that.
Councillor Cook, did you want to come in and can I just react to those remarks and I have a separate question.
order, so it was really very disappointing to him, because I think this is an excellent piece of work, which I think enjoys wide support, both both parties, we started it, so it's a real shame, do you have to sink to that level of ad hominem attacks immediately and then let me finish, let me finish, let me finish, yeah, you've got no sort of big picture comments on this amazingly important, big, big topic, a trans separate town sends everything. Yeah, you're you're immediately into a letter, which I haven't seen, I mean, I believe you if you came from colleagues, but they might have had a point if, if there's something that has been proposed, is gonna crew, increased congestion, that's entirely counterproductive, but very saying that they know more than our officers
your paying article, your parent, the view you're putting it on record, that OK, common areas, landlords, OK colleague, they're entitled Councillor Cook, I'm going to argue I'm going to ask you can finish Councillor Murray because you can come in again and if you'd like to, and then I think we'll move on to the next point, so you finish Councillor Cave, I guess I thought it was a very revealing comment because got great respect for officers, I've been a councillor here a lot longer than you have
we are very fortunate to have superb officers, but it's our job to reach a judgment and set the direction, so it's not a question of whether they're right and we're wrong.
if my if I have colleagues who have a view on where we should be going, he said, perfect right to express that, and if they if there's something, they don't like which they think is counterproductive, which it sounds like it might have been in the letter which I haven't seen then again it is their job to articulate that to residents and are perfectly entitled to do it anyway we're getting way off the point which I think is a real shame because I do have a question much more substantive question which I'd like to book a thank you.
OK, Councillor Cook, I think we've we've had your perspective on that now and Councillor Miró because de did you want to come back, OK, if not, shall I take Councillor Carter, I do I think, let you know, the work speaks for itself. We're very, very proud of this. I think it is really important. It's not. It's not good enough to say that people are entitled to an opinion when we are talking about a climate emergency which affects people from the poorest people in our borough. Air quality affects those
it affects particularly if you're against climate denial is, and that's fine, but it affects particularly worse people in our borough if you are fools.
the facts speak for themselves.
OK, I'm not going to go to college coming here, colleagues, thank you, colleagues, I'm going to come in at that point. We haven't equality needs. Impact assessment first said that in the right order, which deals exactly with the point of who's most affected by this paper, so we can get into that if we'd like to it's absolutely clear that the climate emergency does affect some members of our borough more than others, so Councillor Milk is absolutely right and we've got the document that proves that one second, thank you. So if anyone would like to ask questions on the ENA, I'd love to hear them
and if anyone has a question on the paper, I'd love to hear it and I do think that was irrelevant statement from Councillor Marcus and we've had the opposition's point, so I'm not going to steer it back into that now, Councillor Cook, if you have a question I'll take it now and then we'll hear from officers and we will continue scrutinising the paper, Councillor Cook, do you have a question?
I will be more positive than what we've just heard, which I think pretty shameful remarks, Councillor Cook, if you have a question, please thank you if I may continue, so I'm in.
yeah, so superb bit of work, as I've just said, very important, very, very pleased to say it, and I congratulate those who worked on it, I thought the recommended actions were interesting in I noticed in particular, the tree coverage was listed as one thing that we, the Council, can do encouraging electric vehicles, another thing that we, the Council, can do
and so, when you look in the body of the report on both of those.
both of those points,
bearing in mind that we need to say an absolute step change, what's happening is really underwhelming. We seem to be going backwards, we say we're not making as much progress as we were on EV charge points and on trees we just seem to be flatlining and it actually works out at 12.00 per ward, which is not a lot of trees, so absolutely take the point about we've got to be super ambitious on all of this stuff, we've all seen the trajectory on on those those lines, whichever path we follow on the things which the council control are nowhere near ambitious enough in my view, and I think that there's a real mismatch between what's described in the paper and what's in in the the anti-Isis report,
it's not good enough to admit in a justification for that. Would anything officers like to take that point, and I I will take you up on the EV charge points, because I think in the last Committee when we had exactly these comments, I think that the ratio of charging points that was proposed by yourself was I mean it was kind of like one for every 20 people we were getting to are quite a quite a number that doesn't really bear any relationship to EV ownership, so I'm I'd be really interested to hear from officers about whether we are going backwards, I think was your statement on the on electric vehicle charging points and the number of trees and our ambitious, our ambition in that area would cope with Mr Connor like to take that one, I'll take the eaves and then I'll pass to Mr Midi on to comment on the trees because I know this has been a significant piece of work.
I think on the electric vehicle charging points. David Hadley is the lead officer, as you, as you know, Councillor Cook, I think he would say we've not gone backwards. Obviously we went from out from a high baseline. We've were on track to put five to five in this year and I think we have one of the high performing borrowers. Obviously, we need to think about where we put our EV charging points in and the type of charging points that we we put in as well. I don't profess to be an expert, but I think there's there's something where you can scattergun with them a huge amount of charging points that actually aren't the most effective way of of putting them in, and I know Mr tiddly and the team consider that when they're putting them in their, I also know that we did. An EV charging strategy was taken to Transport Committee this year which which set it out, so hopefully that gives you some confidence on that. If there are any kind of further detailed questions. I'm sure, Mr Mr, until they can can pick those up and I'll pass to to miss really on their trees,
thank you for from Mo from memory from our KPI, as I believe that we would look into upon 800 trees a year.
and as far as I'm aware that we were on target for that.
we're on target for that and obviously, if we can go further, we will go further.
so I've got Councillor Cook and then Councillor Coakley, please.
no, thank you well, sorry, there are 70.
in this year I didn't see the no history go ahead, thank you, Jo Shearer, leisure and culture contract manager.
on the trees question exactly why, Matthew, we increased to a target of 800, and I think we've come in over by 8 20 and then for next year we're increasing again to 1,000 trees so we are being ambitious and trying to increased trees wherever possible. Thank you, thank you and I've seen some of them going in recently and glorious they are so Councillor Cook and then Councillor Cockley and then Councillor Brooks, thank you.
thank you will also increase going in, and that's all good news to stagger those paragraphs 70 so as there's 252 new trees 453 replacement, it's obviously the pollution that I get, but it's the new that matters because that's the net gain and that's the bit that I say if you divide that by a number of wards that gets about 12 per ward which in a lot really so I would say that needs to be a lot higher.
I can't give you a page reference, the number 800 is in the papers, but I think we'll move on Councillor Coakley, would you like to go ahead?
come on.
yeah, thank you Chair.
thank you for officers or the officers I have involved in the paper, it's a really interesting read, and I especially also like the attachment of the and VCSE report at the end, because they gave a lot more context to were.
I found it interesting because on that graph that you also per.
on the screen there, it showed the gradual decrease of everything.
but.
because of industry, even though when we reach past the 2040 feet that would still be emitting, so I was just curious to see is, is there sort of a calculated certain point that industry can go and then it will be impossible for it to go down because it still start gradually going down from 2019 and then there's sort of plateaued and then didn't go down any more and adjust for be interesting to know if there would be any way to minimise Africa's, obviously the more of that there is the more that will have to pay towards offset in there once we go past, the 2040 fisa hidden at 0 so
Mr Hager, would you like to come in on that when thank you?
so there's a bit of a technical reason behind that, so basically it's to do with the allocation of industry emissions and how some of that needs to be apportioned nationally essentially says some of that industrial emissions have to be apportioned out nationally and so every sort of borrow gets those and they have to be weighted into that calculation in terms of the
dataset that's used, so it's a bit of a technical reason that they're in there, it's not necessarily all of those are emissions that come directly from this borough, but they have to be apportioned out because they're sort of like national industry type things so that's one of the reasons why it's hard to reduce it down, because then you're relying on gritty, carbonation and so take-up of so highly mg intensive industries, who then managed to decarbonise.
but in terms of industries within the borough, there's not many of them, really one is more around kind of.
an example would be so I high energy use buildings.
and then some other light industrial suffer goes on in the borough, but that's I think that's an area where, with the going further and matching that gap and addressing some of those really tricky questions around, how do big industries like that decarbonise and as part of the solutions that's needed in terms of going that bit further,
so I think I saw Councillor Brooks next, please go ahead.
I am a shot, open up the
the questions for a minute, but I I'll drop you an e-mail about the statement question format thinks I think we're if we pursue that path, we'll end up with a committee that will shed more heat than lights, whereas this committee, I think, has been a little island of cooperation and understanding compared to where the committees can go. So I think I'll I'll pop you a note on that. My question was just a little one about school streets. There's a targets in the paper which obviously I'm on my own sort of view, which is sort of adjacent. There's any school that wants one should be able to have one
but one thing that came up with the schools, which I'm sure you know very well in your old ward
was that the state that they want to discuss street, but they came into as a resourcing problem internally with the the staff team. They couldn't make it work even though they wanted one. So what thinking is happening alongside education about how we can help schools that want School Street, but can't operationalise it because of staff actually achieve that? Thanks, Councillor Brett, can I just check, I think you were saying, Roehampton, I think you're talking about the Oulton school
OK, because I could give you chapter and verse on the altar in, we probably take that offline, upbringing, Councillor Marcus, next I don't know if any of the officers wants to take that question and just coming back to trees page 69, if you'd like the full figures, Councillor Cook,
Ms O'Connor, please go ahead, yes, I was going to say, obviously.
David Leigh is the lead for school streets as well. I know he works very closely with our children's services department, so I can't give you an exact answer as to the work that they were undertaking on that, but I am pretty confident that they're thinking about that and we are making. Obviously, progress on are on our school streets, which is which is positive. I would add that Children's Services is incredibly engaged in our climate change agenda. They've recently had a paper go to their committee about their work and they also have a steering group in place as well.
Councillor Melka said you want to come in, please go ahead, just to knock down school streets. I guess we're now at the stage where not any other, more challenging kind of in terms of layout we're getting to that phase, but also we're looking back at the ones that are in and we're doing a piece of work with officers where we were kind of rating them as to what Red Amber Green as to what state they're in in terms of voluntary participation Vrba and then looking at what options are available, whether it is cameras, whether it is barriers, whether it is rejuvenating through education, whatever it might be, what is most appropriate to that school, so that a piece of work that sort of just started in the last two or three weeks and is continuing
thank you, Councillor Wilkinson, yeah, I think I think no, no schools, in exactly the same position as any other and different barriers, different types of system work, work in different places. Councillor Carter, can you go ahead, please, thank you Chair, I had a bunch of questions on the air quality side of the paper, so just for the convenience of the officers, would it be OK if I just ask them in one go because otherwise it'd be me asked one question and then they come back and then I ask another one, you have the floor, please enjoy great
firstly, in paragraph on 1 1 19, in the report, it's in the capital revenue section.
it just says there's a table that shows different projects and how much, and there was one just a bit blankly labelled air quality, which was under 99.
a thousand pounds, so I was just wondering what was included in that.
so I was first one.
secondly.
we rightly mentioned all of the work that we do to for anti-aid Lin, and I was wondering if.
we had any sort of metrics or anything to track how often Eileen occurs and if we can know if we have a way of eventually to let track and seeing that making sure that our interventions and our Auntie Eileen officers are making a good difference.
and then the last two questions are sort of
related to the K P eyes, I saw that the last year I think we've talked about this in the last Committee that the percentage of the
monitoring locations achieving the nitrogen dioxide air quality objectives was 86%, and we want it to be 100% this time round so again to solve wondering.
what kind of pitfalls and challenges were expecting?
in the year ahead, and if there's then await her sort of ensure that we're able to meet that and then finally also about KPI as are nitrogen dioxide in the PM 2.5, they were related to our.
targets that are before the World Health Organisation ones come in, and now we've adopted them, I was also wondering whether there will soon be a shift in our reports and our KPI is to show the Debbie HeatCo guideline, the w hedgerow targets and how what closer we to meeting them or will they start come in once we get more feasibly close because obviously the
targets are a lot lower than any where in London is achieving.
so yeah, there was my fault questions.
thank you, Councillor gawkiness, Mr Andrews, would you like to take those in the first instance, I am going to try to remember them, first of all, it's quite a few the in terms of the budget we we do get.
supported by the climate change fund, this funds a number of activities, everything from brief London monitors to schools, interventions and staff for anti idling, we have a list of smaller projects that we do, it also provides match funding for some of the bigger projects that were part of across London.
in terms of the anchored link, we're working on a or an anti-bullying strategy specifically for Wandsworth, to try and tie all of these loose ends. Together we have some excellent figures from all CEOs. We provide our own interventions in terms of working with schools and and and different hotspots, but we knew we need to bring that together and we hope to have a strategy that specifically delivers anti-Israeli ambitions in Wandsworth in the next two or three weeks in terms of the KPI. As this is an interesting one, the KPI is for air quality, do have to be 100%. We can't aim for anything less than the national objectives, and that gap is closing. We are seeing improving air quality, so when we report that, as part of our annual status report, you will see that gap closing. We do need to talk about a new set of KPI, as that represents the World Health Organisation guidelines, which will further open that gap. So where we see 84, we will get that will get larger in terms of closing the gap on those tough areas, so most of our exceedences are in main roads
busy congested locations, and we have a whole raft of actions in the air quality action plan to cover that everything from active travel to cleaner buses and supporting the low emission zone, so hopefully that answers most of your questions, but I'm happy to come back on those now that that is very comprehensive, thank you.
thank you very much, that was very impressive and Councillor White, please go ahead.
thank you, I've got three or four questions, or I'll try and group the first lot about this is around construction.
and the table on page 7 are, I wonder I mean Mr Hagar mentioned, about the difficulty of including everything like aviation and things like that, but around the construction do we include figures or anticipate figures for released carbon through demolition and and those type of things?
and also are we maximising offset costs to developers to try and encourage them to?
to to basically make the bills as the carbonised as possible, so we don't have to you know, pay money for for other people to do it for us and then around the retrofitting retrofitting or the development of a retrofitting task force it's gonna be really important to the borough that we we get this right so you know you are around apprenticeships and training and you know how this is being encouraged in schools and in companies and how capacity really is being built, because I know that because of Brexit and those type of issues that we're really struggling to get a workforce together, so how will we make ensure that you know we've got the capacity really to to dig into this?
Mr Hagger go ahead, yeah, so on demolition, not every building would require a Wi-Fi development would require that within the I believe there's regulations around.
circular economy statements that would address that, but that's only for major developments, in line with the London Plan, and also it is an emerging area which is not so rightfully, instead, the guidelines around it are variable around it. This stuff rounds, I think Mr. Andrews can come in around construction emissions in terms of air pollution, definitely so perhaps Jonah commences talk about him around that and then I can pick up some of the other bits
just to touch briefly on the construction question.
my team runs the cleaner construction for London project, which is basically a project that covers the whole of London and requests that sites have cleaner equipment on the one area that we did notice, I mean originally, it was about particulates and about NOx and we managed to cut emissions by about 48% in London, which is really good, so it's across London, but one of the benefits was carbon. We actually saw some huge carbon reductions as well associated to that and we want to start exploring how we attach that, but as you say, it's a new emerging area, but it does show that if you control one pollutant then you can't control another and it's a project that we want to extend and we're looking to extend it to waste sites and things like events live events, music events with generators and that sort of thing, so it's a new area, but there are some really good work going on at the moment.
thank you very much, that was very helpful, Mr Heba did you want to come back yeah just on offset costs, so those are set out in the Local Plan as well they currently set at 95 pounds a tonne for each year so that that is intended to,
only be paid when you have met certain criteria around.
energy efficiency in any reduc, and energy reduction and carbon reduction. So ideally we wouldn't get any carbon offset payments because every development would be re, reaching those standards and going beyond those standards, and that would be the ideal and the the intention with a carbon offset. Is it's for those developments that they can't make that on the retrofit task force? This is being picks up through some sub-regional work, so some funding has been secured by Southend Partnership, and so Wandsworth is
part of that work are working across the whole of south London to bring together some work around Brexit skills, looking at the demand for retrofit and how we work together with the supply chain as well, and so that's work that we are linked in with we have somebody in in my team who is working directly with SIP on this works were very much tied into that and getting a steer into that that is work that is going to carry on over the next year.
that's going to be part of what we need to look at as part of a retrofit strategy approach for the whole borough as well, and so picking up that skill stuff is important in terms of training and capacity. There's been some research done that, which shows the the skills demand across the whole of central London, and then also specifically for Wandsworth around what we need a common top. My head is an awful lot of millions of people hours that's needed to be able to deliver retrofit, and so it really highlights the sort of skills and also in some unexpected areas like we're gonna need an awful lot of scaffolders to be able to put up scaffolding, to do external wall insulation and to fit solar panels, and that's something that hadn't really been apparent to me. But it's come out of this recession is actually that's really interesting and then in terms of delivering training, there's the University of Roehampton isn't launching their sustainable engineering and education centre.
so that's that's coming along and again we are linking in with that, I'm also said Thames College is running passes on this as well, there's obviously a lot of what must do around this and it is an area of focus, but there's a lot going on already and there's a lot of work that's being kicked off which should hopefully be quite impactful.
schools at the moment, I'm not sure, but it's an area to to pick up and to look at in terms of more engagements, more work, I know that, for example, those workforce plans around air quality and to go into the thoughts of schools around air quality and wider climate change stuff, and that's where there is an opportunity to then talk about some of the wider sustainability, climate change careers, things like that it could be that we build on those sorts of things but it it's
is on the radar for us to pick up on and do more.
thank you very much, Councillor, why did you want to come back, yeah, sorry, you do not come back, actually it was quite a comprehensive and thanks very vocally for their they there's another question around, I've forgotten what pages now around on nanotechnology which we're using because, as we know, heat pumps only provides some of the solution as far as decarbonising our heat.
heating systems because the heat pumps won't work in all situations, so I'm really really interested and really excited by the development of the inch infrared solution that the work we're looking at and yeah, I mean you fish if you could.
tell us a little bit around that and also whether we are putting all our money on one in four resolutions, because I know that there are more than 1, so is it just around the the one solution, or were we looking at trialling other solutions as well, so we're trialling the next-gen solution which is,
it's infrared, but it's a different type of infrared, I can't remember exactly what the the the name for is is kind of like a or a more advanced version, where, basically it.
he's sort of like the the space around the person rather than heating the entire house, so it it's a as an effective way of doing it, it's been trialled in a small number of properties just to see how residents react to what they think about it, what the impact is in terms of the rest of the the building fabric and if you're not hitting the entire home there can be then issues around so as not to come with the sort of damp and mould around not doing that, so it was kind of looked checking on that, making sure that is not happening.
one and kind of seeing what the impact is and how residents are reacting, so it's a trial is the kind of scene what's happening, if it's successful, then it might get rolled out further if there's other sort of things that that might be.
able to be piloted, and then we're keeping an open mind around technologies that can be used, but.
yeah so.
hi-def shops and director of property services.
colleagues in housing are trialling some of those that infrared technology, so obviously they'll have more information on how that is performing, I think, in relation to our non-housing portfolio, you're quite right, you know what, whilst SLC palms up for a solution for some of our buildings, there weren't for all of them, for various reasons, whether that's planning, constraints, performance etc we are in the process of we're commissioning a sort of wider Hey, Hey, heat decarbonisation plan, which will be reviewing all those technologies and looking at the best solutions for certain buildings. So we're hoping that there'll be more of that emerging as we go through the process and we're delivering towards the the targets
thank you both very much and I think it it's worth saying for those who are watching who maybe haven't got through all the papers, that the Appendix B does go through, a lot around which departments these work streams are across and a lot of them are yourself, Mr. Shopping property services and a lot of housing and this is sitting right across the whole Council so we're representing an enormous body of work in these papers.
I have a question, if that's all right, please about the individual, we will be voting on individual paragraphs and paragraph C that will vote on tonight is about Micro Grants scheme.
and so I did want to ask if any officers could tell us a little bit about what sort of projects we've seen coming through already in the micro grants that have been given, and what we expect to see, please, thank you.
yeah, so micro grants came out from a trial we did during group agreement, which has risen several weeks of climate related events that we ran back in June, I had really really good take-up and as a way of supporting community organisations to be able to do that we offered micro grants of saw friends about 100 to 200 pounds.
to to support them, to put on events where you know that relatively small amount of money might be a barrier for people in terms of putting that on, so we ran that and some of the things that we did was, for example, in Dodington and Rollo. There were community planting events, there was an art installation for children in Woodfield pavilion, there was also a vintage colours workshop which ended up having we should run by a local artist called Lord Gibson's, and they had shared the waiting list of over 100 for them, it was a massively oversubscribed she'd since there's an activity at the views and repair fee that we ran in late September I think it was in October.
and again that was very heavily subscribed as well, so it was really really popular. So basically what we, the feedback we got from that, was that people really really appreciated. It groups really really appreciated that support to be able to make things happen in the community, and they felt that some of the sort of grants that were larger weren't really appropriate for them, because it was just too much money and they they they didn't need that much. They just needed a few hundred pounds to be able to run things in the community and to build that momentum around it. So what we're proposing here is to to run a trial for a year
to to do that with a maximum of 500 pounds that.
community groups can apply for to see, so what people do with it, so we can monitor, evaluate it and see if it's worth carrying that on basic way. We're trying to iterate and build on what's gone on before also Hammersmith and Fulham have run a similar scheme, and so we managed to get some findings from them around how they ran it, so we're not so like doing it in the dark, we've run something on a small scale. We've spoken to a neighbouring borough to find out how they did it on a larger scale, taken up learning, applying it to this and then seeing how it goes for the for the next year sounds brilliant. Thank you and Councillor Apperley. Do you have a question yeah, so I've got one of the micrograms and then I've got a few one like reference engagement and business engagement. So the first thing is on the micrograms. I mean when we ran some coronation parties. I know it's very different thing to this, but
there was quite a barrier for quite a few of the kind of resident groups because they didn't have their own bank account or constitution, and obviously we need to have certain standards in order for these funds to be accessed.
but sometimes that you know, particularly the local schools, can't be.
the place where the money is put for these events, then you know it did mean that, for example, my own local area was unable to apply for any funding. We did manage to run a running event and it was very successful, but it involved lots of it. Residents, individuals can making lots of contributions, so it's kind of like how we get round some of those barriers to new groups emerging how much we support people in kind of getting with some some start up with some of those barriers that they might be facing or how much we help them work round some of those barriers as well, so that they can so that we can sort of support. Maybe groups of residents or groups of them, young people who might have an idea, but don't yet have the organisation to go behind them. So maybe I'll just ask you that first and then come back to some of the others
yeah, so we're gonna be transmitters easy to access as possible, so we're trying to make it sort of quite a simple process so that people can apply using so like a an online submission that we can then review and checking to make sure that it's meeting the criteria we're setting out around it, but we we don't want to be too restrictive around it because we want it to be encouraging action in the community. We want it to be
also for people who may have maybes feel that so I applied for those larger funds, it is just too much and they don't want to have that access them as they just want you know a few hundred pounds to be able to do so do an event to run a small project and that so but that is the barrier so we're gonna be using our networks to promote it, so for example, we're gonna be talking about it at the Once-ler sustainability and partnership events to promote that.
you promoting it in our country's newsletter as well, and just generally getting out to groups into organisations to show this is available. This can be applied, for it's not gonna be too complicated to apply for it, and then in terms of monitoring, we are obviously gonna be monitoring what is being delivered, that people are using the money for what they've said, it's been useful, but we don't want to be too bureaucratic around it. We want to
be getting the information that we need in and making sure that it's being delivered and getting some feedback, but without being overly restrictive around us, we're trying to do is, I would say, also that we have worked with our grants teams in in the Council to make sure that this is aligned with how the had they run their things as well.
and one of them will be involved in sort of the panel assessing the applications as well, so we're Lincoln very closely with the existing framework of grants so that it fits within the overall framework, and we feel that it feels a bit of a gap around that smaller amounts.
do you want to come back with some more go ahead, please, if that's OK, I just had been looking at awareness engagement, which is an area which interests me a lot and a few different, maybe I'll do the same as Jamie Councillor concluded, which is is maybe sort of group some of them if that's OK and I think some of these might be for Ms O'Connor,
so firstly, when we're looking at kind of what the impacts are, gonna, be how we're gonna, reduce our carbon emissions, got interested in the changes and patterns of work and home life and about how much we've looked at what some of the benefits of those might be and what some of the challenges might be and where we think longer-term trends are going, it might be difficult to tell us of yet, but you know that's obviously going to have an impact on on where we're looking things like air air quality might be an area there.
also, I mean, obviously we could make some changes so we could make some structural changes which actually don't require much resident engagement, you know they can be structural changes which have a big impact and benefit people, for example, making their homes warmer or you know using lower emissions but,
but I have you sort of done, some modelling about looking at what awareness we will need and what engagement we will need from different sectors in order to reach net 0 by 2043.
getting a bit more specific, looking at Big Green Week.
it's incredible activities, amazing stuff,
I wanted to ask about what feedback had been and what the plan is going forward, I know there's a look at September and how we're gonna do that be really good to get some of our residents involved.
and then
also, I'm interested in when you're looking at business and business engagement.
now we're looking at sort of target groups like what's what's the kind of engagement so far from larger businesses, smaller medium but also microbusinesses.
I know there are some micro businesses that very specifically around climate change, but why are we reaching out to other micro businesses that maybe don't see it as the central, and how will we kind of reaching those different target groups thanks very much?
so I'll pick up the the segmentation in the business, I think Mr. Andrews has some interesting information on the impact of COVID and behaviors that you'll follow up on, and then obviously Mr Hagger can talk about Big Green Week, so starting businesses first because that's freshest in my mind,
the economic development office is again one of the teams. It's actively engaged in our climate change work and they're looking to provide a programme for businesses around climate change that is really positive around the changes in behaviour that can that can take place. Our Chamber is very active in relation to climate change and we link very closely with them. We're also starting to do more and more as a Council in terms of the partnership work we do with businesses, so large employers, such as Apple and Young's, together down to small and medium-sized enterprises as well. What we're planning is a big partnership event on March, the 12th and one of the key target audiences for that is businesses. So we're looking to have a panel of local businesses and local kind of organisations that have led the way so that they can share hints and tips with local businesses that want to make changes. We're also looking to have a couple of local big businesses as key speakers on that, and we're linking actively with the Chamber of Commerce to to promote that and Lincoln with Beverly, because obviously she's been a key champion in this. We also link in with our bids as well, to promote that information and we know that quite a lot of our bids are very active in terms of their climate change work as well, so there's always something more we can do. I think the business element is something that we need to focus on, but that's a clear element for for our action plan going forward.
in terms of the what we need to do to affect chamber change. We know that there's a big behaviour change piece that we need to do linking with our communications team and, as I said, I manage a communications team as well as the climate change team and the two worked very, very closely together. So the first stage of that work is the the work that I referred to earlier this evening about bringing together the data that we've got on our residents' kind of home ownership. What we know about the different types of residents that we have, so we can do targeted behaviour, change, work with them and part of that behaviour change workers is sharing the information about the changes that can be made easily. I don't think we do that very well as councils as a whole, and so there's a piece of work about saying this is how you can talk to. This is the kind of changes that you can do so again. It's it's, we've done good climate change, engagement and communications. I think I think in order to achieve the 2043 target. We really need to step it up a level, and I think that's quite an exciting prospect for for the teams across the council. I'll pass on to to Mr Andrews around the COVID and climate change impact.
it was purely anecdotal, but we did follow the data through.
the pandemic, the air quality monitoring data through through the pandemic, and in 2019 we saw a significant drop in nitrogen dioxide and we was expecting it to start creeping up, but it crept up a little bit in 2020, but since then we've seen the trend going down now if we've got 90% of work in London as working from home in part.
is going to have an impact on traffic emissions, it's not the entire picture because obviously we've seen the cleaning of the bus fleet, we've got the introduction of the EU laws, or at least bisecting the bar, but there is a clear link in terms of air quality that, obviously, if people are working from home, then there won't be using vehicles as much. However, if people are having to heat their own homes whilst working from them, then that's a
some of that we need to consider, but the amount that people are seeing in coats and gloves still sitting in front of their cameras at homes, I suggest that we probably aren't heating their homes, but it's purely anecdotal what we think is part of the wider picture that they're working from home has been beneficial.
thank you very much, Mr. Helga, do you want to come in yeah just on great agreement, so we had some really really good feedback on this, so we had over 60 events across the whole of the borough and there's a really really wide sort of spread we had some really high attendance events and so we had the fastest city events which was visited by the Duchess of Edinburgh, we had the big pattern bike ride as well.
we had venues, including pubs, schools, gardens riverbanks, rooftops, our community centres. Libraries took part quite quite heavily as well. They did an awful lot of stuff and things spread across the whole of salt, climate change sustainability. There was the friend reuse and recycling gardening biodiversity, those talks round climate justice, healthy diets and how you can eat more sustainably, anti idling as well, active travel and stuff out, climate, education and also arts as well, and so one of the things that that's come out is we, we took feedback from the groups that ran events. One of the things that has come out from that is the micro grants approach, because that was a really strong bit of feedback from them.
also around. We need to engage earlier with schools because there is enthusiasm there, but they do need a really long lead-in time to be able to to to do that. We thought we'd given her time, it wasn't enough time, we're going to give them even longer next time round, and the idea is that we're going to extend it, and that was another piece of feedback. Is a week kind of crammed everything together and it meant the people who were may be involved in a couple of different groups. Couldn't do all the things they wanted to do also, if you have multiple things running on the same days in one particular area, people might not be able to do both, but they would like to so it will give a better option around being able to take part and give allow a wider offer across the borough. So the idea is to have it across the whole of September to be able to do that
and that's thus apparent, we haven't got much more detail than that we are working at at the moment.
great that's really exciting and Councillor White, and then I'm gonna start moving moving us towards a vote, thank you, Councillor White.
yeah, just a couple of things of the first one was around. You know, people who don't have access to a garden, so development of community gardens, and what we're doing to to encourage that because I know that some estates of sank somewhere Councillor stated are actually doing that, but what we're doing to encourage other people really to get involved in it, and the second question was that and it might be mentioned somewhere else, I must apologise, but on page 111 for point so
there's no mention of car pooling or car clubs to encourage people away from car ownership and therefore reducing car journeys, and especially
around the car clubs that are affordable and sustainable, and I know we made an effort to try and get a companies interested in moving on to council estates with with car clubs, and we didn't have where we had what one sort of half interest which which went away I think,
and we didn't have anything other than that, and you know the car parking problems, some some songs and on council estates.
could be relieved by you know, goods are good car clubs, so I wonder what we're doing in that sort of area to try and encourage you know if the car clubs to get into areas that possibly the their business model at the moment is not indicating that they will go there.
Mr Hagar, would you like to take that one I can answer just very quickly on car clubs, I mean, Mr Sydney is the expert on this and will be able to give a better answer, but I do know that we do have a very high car club, membership is one the highest in London, so when when I last saw outsold the figures so I don't know what is in the pipeline but I do know that there is high cock-up membership within Wandsworth and compared to many other boroughs.
I'm not sure about community gardens, I'm afraid I can't access that I'm not sure if Mr Eaves are able to resolve it.
thank you, I can actually say that it is being thought of, and there's a group of officers, a group that's being formed now, to explore the opportunities to create pocket parks within the borough brick, which will include community gardens, community growing opportunities as well, so something to look forward to and we are happy to keep you updated on that Councillor.
thank you, Mr you do, thank you, Mr Hegel, we've got some great examples in West Putney and you can talk to them so as to see Councillor Jeffery and then I think that might be the last question and will move to a vote if that's OK please go ahead.
thank you, so I actually a question I just want to thank the officers for this group and comprehensive report and for their due diligence, and it's great to see that we're able to apply our manifesto pledges.
and where well or ahead of targets to gain at 0, so it's really great to see them.
hear hear well said.
yes, Ms O'Connor, please go ahead.
I definitely do what it can test, that I will never contest the compliment. I think it's worth saying that obviously the Mr Hagbourne at the team that there I managed to pull together this report but, as you said early, actually this reflects a lot of work from officers across the Council and there is a significant amount of effort that's gone in from every single directorate taking this seriously. So so whilst I I really appreciate the council's comments, I just wanted to echo the fact that there is a huge team effort behind this one behind achieving our targets.
I also think you okay at that point, then I think we were ready to take a vote, sir, we're on Item number 3, so I'm OS that's a paper for decision, so I'm asking the Committee, do you agree to support the recommendations to the Executive in paragraph 3 that agreed unanimously, thank you all very much and thank you very much officers for all your work and for speaking tonight.

7 Leisure Services Delivery and Management Options (Paper No. 24-33)

while we re shuffle the table, I'll just introduce the next item, which appears as item 7, which we've moved forward, it's the leisure service delivery and management options paper that's paper number 24 33.
so I think we are going to have an introduction to that paper from Mr Eady, but just before that we'll just ask to hear a few words from the Cabinet Member, please, thank you, Councillor Gasser, thank you officers.
thank you, yeah, it's just we are very ambitious with our are working towards that elitist strategy. We want to provide the top quality leisure facilities for all our residents can enjoy. We want to provide the most generous concession offer in London so that every single resident can access what they want to access in our leisure centres. But in order to do that, we have to have a really solid business case. So this paper I will take you through our thinking so far we it's not really the end of a lower interest rates, we're in a process and is 3D will talk me through where we're up to and what we're asking from the committee. Thank you, Councillor against here, Mr Reidy
Barry thank you, Councillor Gasser, so I wanted to start by by providing some background, so in 2019 the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty in a report said that if physical activity or a drug we would prefer it to as a miserable or some miracle care due to the great many illnesses it can prevent and help and treat so the power of physical activity, sport and exercise is research driven that it has a huge impact on people's lives for them to be able to healthier and more active lifestyles.
our ambition in Wandsworth is to get more people more active, more often across the whole of their life course from pregnant mothers, babies, small children all the way to older adults to ensure people can thrive, have good mental health and promote intimate independence for as long as possible this report is a
contributed contributed because the whole of the Council and hold of the partnership we can't make behaviour and cultural change to get more encouraged more people to be active without it being a whole system approach.
this report sets out the journey we are have, we have got to so far using Sport England's strategic outcomes framework as a route, a roadmap to get us to delivering a strategy that we hope will become adopted in the summer and agreed by committee in June, so this report,
it starts by what the emerging themes and what's important to this borough. That's been driven by data and insight. So we know that we have a deficit of quantity of facilities and quality of facilities they need invested in our infrastructure goes much broader though than just our leisure centres. Leisure centres are just one part of the system. We have amazing parks, we have cycleways walkways community facilities that we all need to form part of the fabric of our journey, to encourage our residents to be more active, so this report, as well as
share any emergent themes and demonstrating the Council's admission or ambitions for access for all. It looks at a review of the options of how we can deliver a sustainable leisure service in the future, which will allow us to invest in supporting the people that are inactive and have long term health conditions, with a significantly growing NHS waiting list by the day physical activity sport is even more important, but it also addresses things much wider than that, like social isolation again, research suggests that social isolation can be the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day
so it shows how important this can have on people's mental and physical health, so the recommendations in this report are to note the progress.
our ambition, but also to note the options and agree through the options appraisal for us to re-tender the current Leisure Management contract of our core leisure centres currently delivered by a place which is the most economic and advantageous.
solution that would allow us to continually invest in our facilities, but also in supporting our residents.
thank you very much, it was a wonderful introduction, I'm looking for hands for questions, please, on this paper, is it Councillor White, please go ahead, yeah I've got quite a few actually.
they are the comparisons between in-house.
and the extra external CA or contractor.
obviously, what's been laid out in front of us isn't a comprehensive run-through of all the different things that that will come compared.
but this there's a worry that you know that things may not have been because we're concentrating on the finance we're we're sort of not looking so much on on the other implications of it, you know, and one thing that we know of obviously is the the the pensions which you know people working for an external contractor would miss out on better a pension.
or payments, but also you know around union recognition and skills and training records and
you know, generally in-house, that it tends to be better on that and also the impact on the local economy. Would we're talking about external investment will that means that external dividends will will go externally as well, and you know what what would the their record be? You know the highest payers, where are they lie situated? I know that not all of our officers live or live in Wandsworth, but certainly a lot of the workers, we probably would be really external company, you might not get so much of that.
and so yeah, I mean, I'm I'm a yeah it for me, there's another report here, isn't there, there's another report about the you know how how this was all put together but as I say with the report that is actually delivered there there are a number of questions I think are around how this comparison was made.
Australia would you like to come in on that one?
yes, thank you, I think yeah, thank you for sharing those both concerns and those challenges, what I would say is the leisure market has changed significantly over the last few years, where the the operators now dominated by charitable organisations and social enterprises that quite often share the values of local authorities.
Leisure is a very difficult industry to recruit and retain staff and by having comprehensive training packages, and good renumeration will be critical to the success of any organisation, including the Council, so for any external contractor they need to remain competitive.
you know to address the challenges of recruiting and retaining staff and I feel very confident that lots of the competitors out there have very good training and development programmes, so this is not purely just driven by the finance these leisure contractors are very experienced and will be required to follow the specification and scope of services the Council feels are important that they deliver and we will hold them to account to make sure they deliver them.
so hopefully that's answered some of your queries.
thinking is 3D, it's really interesting to mention what's happening in the voluntary sector, because there's there's so much, for example, happening in Roehampton around. You know community yoga, community tennis, and it's bringing together communities, and it's combating isolation at the same time as as as working on fitness and all of that that side of things, Councillor, why did you want to come back on any of those points and then I've got Councillor Cook and Councillor Apps and then Councillor Copley, thank you, yeah, for thank you. Thank you for that answer and it is a little bit more reassuring, but you know there's there's a couple of comparisons that are made that
in my head they don't work out, I mean my head is very different to everybody else is so, but?
9.1 delivery of strategic outcomes I mean, surely in the House would perform better with that, given that you know there's this obviously democratic control over what we do and also.
there is a
yeah
8 point 1
Surrey Type 1 8.1 so where you know it's mentioned the ability to reduce the net net costs of the service and alarm bells go off in my head around the ballot I mean, are we reducing the quality of the service to make it cheaper, are we gonna have less staff are we gonna, have less well trained staff or less equipment to carry out?
what we have, what we want to do and also social value and sustainability I mean, would that really be delivered better by a private company or me we just heard about a real, real commitment to sustainability in ways, would it an outside company would be, would we be certain that an outside company would deliver better than we would?
thank you, Councillor White, to go ahead and sweaty.
thank you, thank you for that, I am.
I'm going to try, and if I can reassure you that.
the contractors should deliver what we specify and they will be required and by law to deliver social value so, and we can lead them in a direction of what we think is acceptable social value in terms of the cost, if, if you look at the table in table 10 you can actually see that the contractor will be spending more so,
sorry, I've got that wrong, sorry, there'd be driven by more income so because they have better product development, I have.
more specialist marketing communications constantly developing their offer based on industry trends and in-house we wouldn't have the expertise and be able to China model things and learn from other parts of the country.
the the main drivers in terms of efficiencies are related to N N D R, where social enterprises will get 100%, and India relief, whereas if it's in house we still have to pay of 50% towards the government, so that is a significant sum of money straight away.
and there are other things that you would need to have a significant back office to be able to support the the service, and the VAT benefits for spy for alleged contractors have just recently changed as well, so the figures there were were suggesting that there is a benefit financially for about 1.4 million.
there's probably another 350,000 pounds due to the HMR seek guidance changes around irrecoverable VAT so they're not.
the the efficiencies aren't driven by reducing costs, it's just they are in a better
model than the Council and also they have much more able to.
gain funding, external funding and social enterprise, which the council can't do as well or so.
whether the structural things that make it more attractive, but also they bring such huge expertise and resilience and.
and I really hope, really good relationships with local suppliers, a good local employer, there will be a big employer of our residents, and fair pay will be fundamental to our requirements as a local authority.
but this this would also come back to our living wage position.
councillor J, do you want to make a final point on this amendment due to the list that I had, thank you just to find the one, so if we develop, you know our procurement, for instance.
you know strategy, then we would make sure that our contractors are governed by that.
absolutely, you know him, and we all know that contractors will always need to be encouraged to stay strictly to the to the contract.
but it's in their interests, lots of these social enterprise organisations, their primary reason for being around, is to get more people active, you know and.
you know the more people get active, you know that the most urgent surplus they can generate most of these sessions because they don't make profit, they don't have shareholders, very few of them do now, they they invest it back into you know the service or to do more, broader things to supporting athletes, you know or other charities to do work to increase their mission, which is to improve wellbeing. So I'm I'm very confident that if we agree to go out to the market, that we will find a partner that wants to work with us and share our values and
go on a mission to get more people active and I think that's what we all would like a good. Thank you are reassured by that to a degree they thank you and I I do think paragraph 26, the way it goes through the bullet points on and then, for example, the tax position. I would never have guessed, so there's a lot. There's a lot in this paper. That's really granular, but it's Rye. You know, the amounts are a really significant. So on my list I have Councillor Cook, then Councillor at the saying Councillor Cockley, Councillor Cook, please go ahead
thank you well, I'd like to congratulate you for continuing the strategy of going to the market which we started many years ago, and, of course, it's matured enormously as a market, there are very few.
when we started, don't change them.
it is a different world, especially after after COVID are very conscious of that, so I think you've done absolutely the right thing, though though it does doesn't sound like everyone is convinced I was, I was intrigued by that vision of a Soviet style ones with closed economy in general, so that is that although the boy Councillor Williamson is always present doing an injunction every more thing Councillor Lee is again Councillor Cook I didn't mention I didn't hear anything about anything Soviet
so please do have a question,
as a, and, I think what was said was a very different situation that existed when you started privatising everything and selling everything off so.
o I moved to the next question if I don't get a question okay, Councillor Epstein, her question would you believe I actually do?
so I've got a question about, I was actually interested as well about the kind of comparison between in-house and contracting out, and I thought it was really interesting because there was one point in which in-house did rather better and was most of them I think the balance was, you know, get the experts in, but on that one it was about the influence on the day to day making sure we can control that quality of service and monitor and manage the performance, and it struck me that if we got that right then that needn't necessarily be a downside, but it just we have to work quite hard to make sure we've got all the procedures in place to make sure we do meet that. So just as we work towards a sort of a full strategy,
how much can we kind of look at minimising that down, su that downside of outsourcing, I think, would be really interesting to look at,
and then the other thing I wanted if it's shall I just put the two together as at easiest yeah, so the other thing I'm really interested in is it's been quite interesting hearing about how, as you've said, the leisure market is changing, you know we do have lots of new smaller private gyms, and you know all sorts of things and looking at where we might deliver our us pie, you know, it seems to me that a lot a lot of these small providers can't, for example, which you know kind of have swimming pools or saunas and all the other things that people enjoy, and maybe some of those team games as well are better served by local authorities, but where we look at what services to people really need from us and how are we going to find out from our residents, and how are we also going to look at a strategy which is future gazing at how this market is going to continue to shift and make sure that we're future-proofing our own plans and to meet that ongoing need? Thank you
OK, thank you, so I'd like to reassure Members again, but you know we will be making sure we can squeeze every bit of quality out of the scope of services and the specification, and we will have a team led by Massera O sitting over there, and I can assure you that she will make sure they do what they are meant to be doing, but come back to the point they want to be doing these things. You know if we went back five 10 15 years ago, these contracts were won on tiny, tiny margins to try and get scale and that we lost the quality, so now we'd be pushing for
we'd be pushing, for you know, I'm much favourable evaluation matrix for quality to make sure we get that right, we don't want cheap services, we want to build on the quality and if we provide a fantastic service, more people will come more people will be active and therefore will make more income so and the more income we make the more we can reinvest to make sure that the people that are less able to afford it can have subsidised or free services so,
please be assured that is fundamental to our strategy, and our procurements tragedy in relation to two USB swimming pools will obviously be our USB because they're very, very expensive to operate, but I think are a USB needs to always be developed in line with what resident need is you know what it might be today might be different in 18 months, two years, so there's lots of strategic needs assessment work that we've done, lots of engagement with the community and residents testing lots of market theories. We feel that there is investment we could do in soft play for children.
best start in life for 2001 date is the most critical part of any life. If, if that goes well, when you have good development at that stage, your life chances are hugely increased. So how can we make sure that we invest in that to make sure that we have young thriving children that go on to do you know brilliant in their careers and their life, so there'd be lots of things like that and are trying to address some of the gaps as well. We know there's a huge demand for women and girls spoke, for example,
now I would like and champion us to be using the Rugby World Cup that will be, the final will be in Twickenham.
in the next borough as a as a lever for us to not just promote rugby, but women and girls' sport and physical activity. Trying to get more people employed, goes employed, but also try and address the deficit in their facilities. You know we have, we had an explosion of demand for girls' football and yet I couldn't get anywhere to play because there wasn't enough coaches. There was enough volunteers and all the pitches and training facilities were being used by boys' and men's clubs that have been established for 10 15 2030 40 years, and you're not going to say right clear of now and you know because they are established. So these are all the things that the residents are telling us. That date is telling us and we want to build a strategy around. You know to get more people more active, more often
it sounds fantastic, and if we were to see a reversal of all the soft play that was free, that we had across the borough that disappeared over the last 10 or so years, that would be wonderful in and of itself right next, on my list I had Councillor Carter clearly please go ahead.
thank you Chair or adding a couple of questions, firstly, I remember when we.
I think it was 2022 when we temporary extended one of the leisure contracts, we were having a discussion about some of the rise of high street gyms and how how low we're going to have to adapt even, and I heard your comments, then what is there going to be a sort of paper on our strategy and and like a change in our approach and would that come before or after we go out to tender?
just so I understand the process and when we would be able to get to scrutinise that.
and then also, as I mentioned, in the paper, due to Covid, we ended up having to we ended up losing a lot of money on the Leisure Services having to hand to subsidise.
and to subsidise another another, five, a company, because
of the exceptional circumstances.
and so will we be in our new contract when we go out to tender, would there be clauses to make sure that that doesn't happen again, and it's not the council that's hit hardest by it?
so thank you, so the first question was around high street gyms and working out what our offer is before we go out to tender, so the strategy will start to drive what is important and the facilities that we need, and that will be happening in tandem as we we design the specification will also, as part of that be engaging with the market so that they would do loads of research on our behalf.
so they can work out what the best buy business model as well, so we use that as well as part of the intelligence you know, and we'll ask them for their views on how we're going to what are the best type of facilities that are gonna meet the demand you know.
what I would say is, there is a huge the ma increase in proliferation of budget gyms, but they will not PA provide the supported service that lots of our residents need in a in a growing you know issue of long-term conditions would not people with just one long-term condition but three or four long-term conditions can't get any treatment on the NHS.
and they need supported pathways to be able to do their exercise. Whereas if the budget gyms you just literally pitch up, do your thing and then go, that's the convenience of them without the support you know, I would like to see much better strengthened pathways with GPs. You know in the past I've had GPs practising out of leisure centres a couple of days a week. Prescribing medic app, not medication prescribing physical activity. You know in making an introduction as a trusted practitioner to an instructor and then you build a relationship, so you know these are all things that we will start the journey you know when Mr. Allegedly strategy and a new contract
but we can build and gain momentum and start a movement of you know how, once we've takes this really seriously to get people healthy, so that was the first question is OK and the second one was about the subsidies, so every local authority had to dip their hands in a pocket in COVID it was unprecedented times it's something you can't be insured against.
to be fair, the market has mostly recovered now, so we shouldn't be subsidising contractors now.
and for a competitive process. That won't happen, but what I can't I cannot say is if we had a global pandemic dynamic or something similar as a local authority, we wouldn't want to support a valued partner to make sure that we keep accessible leisure facilities open, but we'd want to have a partner that is open and transparent and once they get back on their feet, then they return the favour back to us and maybe return the subsidy they were given. So it's about creating that strong partnership and make sure that they feel that a valued partner because they're delivering on behalf. They are connecting us to the community
hopefully that gives you a little bit of confidence, but I can't predict the future, I'm afraid.
I said OK, Councillor Coakley.
Gary then next I have Councillor Brooks, please go ahead.
thank you last night, we had a quick chat with Mr Eddie and he confirmed that the the going out to the market is separate to any new investment that comes, but is there a rough timetable one where we can expect to see thinking and plans about what new investment might be coming into leisure centres and just think about there are various facilities around the borough there might have might be a bit tired now that, given how long these contracts are,
s things are going to happen along that timeframe, so when do we get to see what the thinking is there?
thank you. So there will be some emerging themes and suggestions on some investment, and some of that is already started. The The Council is already committed to things. So 1.4 million pounds is being invested in our pitches because they're overplayed you know, wannabe, we have a better quality, so we're not gonna wait for a strategy to do things we know are right, but also we'd want to involve any partner like I've suggested on the journey of what they think the investment should be based on there, so there will be a bit coming in the Leisure Strategy in some direction and there might be some things that we can commit to, but I think we need to go on a journey to make sure and also look for opportunities to gain external funding as well, and we will be much more in in a much stronger position when we have a strategy. So for our football foundation for example, are desperate to invest in Wandsworth, so you know once we've got our strategy up and running we can open those doors and make it happen.

4 Roehampton Garden Society Allotments (Paper No. 24-34)

thank you all very much, so I think we're probably ready to take a vote now, so this is a paper for decision Item number 7, can I ask colleagues, if you agree to support the recommendations in paragraph 2, please, that's unanimous, thank you all very much so moving on to Item 4, the Roehampton Gardens Society. Thank you very much, Mr. Eady,
we're going to hear now from.
Ms Shearer, I think in the main introducing this paper, whenever you are already mature, please go ahead, thank you.
thank you Chair.
I'm here to present the paper on the revisions to the current lease arrangements held with Roehampton Gardens Society.
for their direct management of the site on a 30 year full repairing and insuring lease term to include retention.
of all the rents collected, the current terms are based on a 7 year security of tenure lease, whereby the Council retains 80% of the rents collected and all capital repairs are Council responsibility, with RTS retaining the remaining 20% of the rent.
Wandsworth allotments are all fully managed via our leisure and culture contract, to enable except for this site.
all the allotments are, as we know, are in very high demand, with waiting lists.
in the order of six years.
demand has increased since COVID and with the increased demand on grow your own organic products, as one example we inherited the Roehampton garden society allotments with the Leask already in place from the GSC in the 19 80s and argy es, save the allotments from redevelopment in the mid 19 70s and have been custodians ever since.
and when they first took them on, they were really run down, hence why the Council had responsibility for the repairs.
since RTS took the lease in 70s, health and safety requirements and monitoring have increased and the 20% income retained by them is doesn't really cover their routine admin and maintenance costs.
allotment legislation is very strict and registered allotments can only usually.
b land under cultivation, no ancillary uses, our legal team have established that this land is not yet registered as allotments, so we can permit these ancillary uses in certain areas, and we propose to register.
the remainder formulae as allotments to permanently protect the site.
the lease will include ongoing obligation to comply with Wandsworth Borough Council's allotment policies and any future amendments.
this includes our requirement on inclusive inclusion and diversity, for fairness to other ones with allotments where allotment legislation and finance prevents such events on on-site facilities, membership will be offered to all our allotment holders so they can benefit from the talks and the events now, although enables role will reduce, we will need to continue to extend.
the location of the Senate exemplary uses and the allotment holders and waiting lists to ensure fair toned turnover that once was allotment, charges, structure and policies are a day to, as Council approved, also to review accounts to ensure any profit is reinvested back into the site and hence we are proposing a thousand pound rent plus CPI rather than RTS is requested peppercorn rent.
now, once we've doesn't usually grant such long leases, so we can only this can only be offered outside of security of tenure, provisions as a requirements so that we can review the success of this arrangement and at the next renewal, RTS need a longer term lease to be eligible to apply for a grant.
that's why we're doing the 30 years, so you know they need to invest as well and get some fundraising, the surplus income from the allotments will not be enough to pay for all they want to do so, that's the position we're in so therefore the report recommends changing the current lease term to a 30 year full repairing and insuring lease to include the direct management of the site and the retention of the income.
and to formally record the appropriation of the allotment from housing to environment and community services.
registering to allotments and then to exclude the areas that we want to use for salary events and enhanced community facilities.
thank you, thank you very much, Ms Ciara, and thank you to all the officers that have moved this forward, because it's coming an awful, long way in a short time.
relatively.
since it's had had your full attention, so I'm I'm personally very grateful note, Councillor M Bashir has been asking for this as well, we've got six paragraphs that we're voting on this evening, I'm just looking at colleagues as to whether you've got any specific questions on the paper because if you don't we could move straight to a vote, I'm sure we've all read the paper carefully so,
right well, I'm I'm gonna move then to a vote, this is for decision, so colleagues, do you agree to support the recommendations in paragraph 2, yes, that's a not unanimous, thank you all very much thank you officers for attending and again for all the work.

5 Petition Response - Swaby Gardens (Paper No. 24-35)

we're going to move now to Item number 5, petition response, Swaby gardens, paper number 24 35.
so members, we've received a request under standing order 66 from Councillor Mrs. Graham to speak on this item, she's here tonight and she's been very patient, thank you very much, I assume we all agree that she can come to the table and address us is that agreed, thank you all is that agreed Councillors?
thank you, Mr Councillor, Mrs. Graham, would you like to join us at the table, please, thank you.
whenever you're ready, please go ahead, thank you.
first and foremost, cheers, thank you very, very much for letting me speak tonight on behalf of my.
wow one moment we've got a microphone, I think we're sure that's still in.
perfect that will be able to hear you now, please go ahead, Councillor Mrs. Graham.
act 2, Sensory.
most importantly of all, as Chair, I really do want to thank you for giving me permission to speak on behalf of my residents.
to be honest, I was actually quite shocked at the Council's response, please, I felt it was very short on detail.
we have a lot of as anti-social behaviour in the area and it does continue now at the time therein well 680 signatures, but quite honestly, there could have been more because it was half-term, because the local families were so worried.
and I think when I I I've picked up that they're quite s, very, very sad that.
the way the Council has responded to their petition and when nearly 700 people signed it, and of course emotions are high, separate to what the signatories as regards to last year, because we do have anti-social behaviour.
we have had physical damage to property and cars.
and, of course, just to refresh residents, Councillors, parents are very fearful and their children, and they are very fearful of their children not being safe, because at that time those grievous bodily harm on some women and also an elderly gentleman and
these youngsters just basically got Scott you know, for Scott, Free, the pitch petition stated, keep our community safe, wanting security cameras in Swaby Gardens.
playground,
but to refresh your mind, in May 2023.
as I said, there was serious GB H on women following from attack of children and who was psychologically damaged for those who really had or were affected by this trauma.
and
on this, the emotions and the fear was so bad that you know a woman said, Look, I've got this baby, I've just don't want to go out in the pram because you know I have got fear and over 150 residents came to a meeting to meet the police.
because there was fear, there were afraid, and young mothers were very fearful of their children being attacked.
and and this continues with really no no reassurance in reality, Swaby Gardens at night is dark fact because we've got heavy trees and it's very.
very attractive to those people who really are not a straightforward, normal living, the day-to-day.
that it is an area for drugs.
as I think about you know, country like county lines, also the junction between Wayne Fleet Street is dark or at the junction, and this is an area where cars can get out and go.
because it ate stock and be they can get onto Garrett Lane and and away, so at this present moment in time, the Magdalene Park estate is really suffering.
Openview Haddington.
Lydiard
which?
you know the Ceferin cars, theft of cars and it reached the paper, there was one lady who is disabled and her car was stolen with the actual chair.
and not forgetting intruders into houses, so cameras are a deterrent and used as so and on this I really strongly believe that we need some some deterrent, not necessarily in the garden itself, but at a junction where the the cameras can look and and pick up also there needed to be better lighting as well because when it does get darker especially at the junction,
it really is.
na very nerve racking, especially if you're a woman on your own and as we know, violence against women is very high on this Council's agenda.
so I am asking our rethink of putting a camera at the junction, with Swaby Gardens, Tramway and Wayne Fleet.
also investigating for improved lighting in Swaby Gardens for children's safety and and parents.
especially as it is dark in some areas at times of the year, so I'm really and truly I note that you are inviting the parks police to come and go the parks police and you're not even giving more money or looking at their times of covering the area.
to address anti-social behaviour, because it closes at 8.00 or nine o'clock and of course those who were taking drugs.
they know every move of the police and what is going on.
so the recommendation, as it states is not enough reassurance really for parents, as said in the petition, to keep our communities safe.
and I'm really happy to answer any questions.
thank you very much, Councillor Mrs. Graham and I'm sure all of us have the most enormous sympathy for the individuals that you mentioned, some of those are indeed very serious matters.
I believe there's a response from Maschera would you would you like to go ahead, Mrs. J Maschera, thank you, thank you, Councillor Grahame, apologies, sorry, Mr Reader, did you want to come in first yeah, please do?
I would also like to offer my thank you for coming and speaking for your residents, but also for sharing some very difficult and information and
your concerns on behalf of your of your constituents, I wasn't here, but Jo was here when this happened and there is a report in response to the petition which has requested lighting and CCTV in the park, but it does seem clear to me that this is much wider than a park.
so I'll let you Joe do hers and we might have a discussion about what what's next, but I would say that this police other primary
service that needs to be involved in this, if this drug taken and things like that, we can do mitigation and stuff like that, but you know this, this needs education and enforcement from the police, which the Council obviously can't do.
and they will probably tell us things similar to you know having Ma worked for the police for a very long time and managed lots of parks a would, for example, really advise us not to put lighting in parks because that doesn't make it safe also there's obviously environmental impacts as well, but they would expect better levels of supervision, clear sight lines and things like that and disruptive behaviour, disruption from the police and other enforcement services, but I would just really like to thank you for come in today and said in a bit more light on what is some concerns in in in in your local area.
thinking student, and this shows that you wanted to go ahead, thank you, thank you, Mr Eddy.
yeah, of course we will share your concerns.
when we receive the petition, as Mr ideas referenced, it asked for the council to install cameras in SweePee Gardens in the playground due to anti-social behaviour issues, so the first thing we done was requested from the police.
to detail related events or reports and we were advised for the period from after the 22 of June to the 20th, 1st of October, there were no anti-social behaviour and reports, none had been received by the police, although it was noted that there were recorded incidences in April to June with deployable cameras across the borough, one of the things we need to prove his persistent and escalating HSBC's
and based on the evidence from the police it did it didn't support that, so what we wanted to do was obviously we would take it seriously, but just to try and get the message out to people to report the incidences because then we've got an evidence base to go forward and we did a instruct the parks and police to increase their patrols which they have been doing since November and they do three inspections a day.
there's been no reports by e-mail or by the public to the parks and events police, the parks play end events, police haven't noted any anti-social behaviour, realising we were concentrating on the playground and in of what we are all getting feedback is from users of the playground very appreciative of there are you know attendance and they feel reassured which is really good.
and we continue just to get that message across, we're not gonna stop the parks and events police with this activity, because I do think it's serving and the community really well, and if we get more reports through the police, then we'll have our evidence base and we can then review and,
you know look at the whole issue of CCTV again,
but it is, you know, it will be working with the police and I'll continue the good work that our parks and events police are doing.
I hope that helps in some way.
thank you for sure I've seen two hands, so I'm going to go to Councillor Upson Councillor Cook and then we might draw this this matter to a close Councillor Apps, please go ahead, yeah, I want to sympathise with Councillor Graham, I understand how difficult it can be when there's crime in your ward and we had a murder a few months ago of a young man him in the north area of my ward is devastating to the local community.
and it can be very difficult when trust in the police as low, it's frustrating sometimes when you see crimes reported on next door, but not to the police, and I know when, as a trivial matter in comparison, but when my bicycle was stolen in my daughter's care I insisted that she do a police reporter though nothing would happen because I wanted that statistic to count.
so I'd say, my urging is that we encourage people to make reports, and perhaps we can do is do more to raise awareness of the importance of that, because I think that's much more meaningful data than petitions, other residents obviously want to express their views to and perhaps we could look at how we could encourage residents where they are aware of crimes to report that so that if we start to build that statistical evidence then we can take that into account and then take action from there. Thank you
thank you, Councillor S, I suppose, is also potentially a piece of work we could do, which is following up with the police about whether any of those very serious incidents that you mentioned are being.
or getting somewhere within the court system, because they do sound very significant, Councillor Cook, please go ahead.
thank you.
I have to say what I, when I read this this report I I was, I was rather surprised, because obviously I've been involved in community socialist things for quite a long time.
Councillor Graham and I have often talked about this location, haven't we over a period of years, but there was a real, there was a real escalation in probably less plus 2 3 years or so, so I I was really surprised to see this statement that there was there was no, there was no police record because that's just completely discordant with my understanding of the situation, yeah I'm really sorry to say I I, I found the tone of of the paper really rather dismissive and just not what I expected. We thought the officer comments this evening yeah much more reassurance, so thank you for those
I entirely take the point about lighting, we all know that's not necessarily always a good or a good idea, it can encourage you go into a place or you, yeah, it's not not gonna be safe, late at night.
but cameras do have a use, they, they can be very valuable, so I would urge that that's reconsidered, because I think there is something going on here, obviously there is lots of local Councillor Graham thinks there is lots of local people think there is, and it seems to me that there is an obvious case for it.
Councillor White, and then I think we'll move on, thank you, Councillor Mowat yeah yeah, I agree, I mean that some some of these are really quite serious, I mean serious G B H and a woman and set from Cosgrove the drug taking I I mean the the police, have obviously got reports of that or of each one of those
have they made arrests or they made an arrest of three youths, unfortunately the victim didn't want to follow that through yep so.
that was earlier in the year, other times they've gone to the location and you know the the people are no longer there, so the police have attended and the incidences and where they have been able to undertake an arrest, they have done that understand that one of the cases is still ongoing, but that's as much as I know, so I would say yes, the police are, you know they are going out, sometimes you know they've dispersed, whoever was there
but it is, it is a difficult one. You know, yes, pre, we know, in May 2 June there were these reports for us to move forward. There was there's a the report back from the police, detailed no reported incidences, so that's come from the police themselves, so it's a really good point. We need to just try and get the message out. How do we get that message out to get those reports? Get you know, make those reports so we've got
the evidence going forward that we can do other methods of surveillance,
okay, well I think I think you have our sympathy, Councillor Graham, and we've just said, this may be more thinking to be done, about why the date is not showing what you're hearing, but maybe that's also something we can take up at the Safer Neighbourhood Board and in other forums.
Councillor Brits George coming really quickly, because this is a paper for note, thank you, could it be that we asked the police what was happening in Swabey Gardens itself rather than than the road that Councillor Graham is asking, or is that no we actually asked for the surrounding roads as well so the roads that you mentioned?
Councillor Graham, I've got lists somewhere in my scribbles, but it is that the surrounding road, so we didn't just concentrate on the playground itself.

6 Petition Response - Northcote Library (Paper No. 24-36)

alright well, as I said, thank you very much for bringing this to the committee's attention. We're really grateful, this is a paper for note, so I assume we all agree to note the paper and thank you very much for your patience and for telling us about what your residents are telling you. They're very welcome, so that was item number 5. Item number 6 now is another petition response. Northcote Library paper number 24 36
again, I think we'll hear first from Mr Eddie, please go ahead.
thank you Chair, we should also have ahead of libraries on line in case we want anything detailed from library Stokes Cheney should be, I can't see it online, but I'm sure she's there, so yes, that there has been a petition requesting you know the extension of opening hours are at Northcott Library, one of three libraries that has been had significant investment in the last.
12 18 months with the the fantastic Wandsworth Town Library, officially opened at last week, I think and the improvements to Putney library to follow, so at this stage we are appreciative and understands the local community's appetite for extended opening hours, but we are at the moment we are dealing with a cost of living crisis, understanding the the different uses and and and reviewing our library strategy model in preparation for a new library strategy. So as part of that process we will look at the opening hours and the services and for me also the outreach the service can do, because I think we need to be moving the service out into the community. You know to try and bring them on a journey back to our libraries and once we've undertaken that strategy, I think that will be either, quite the right time, therefore, to make recommendations on the opening hours across all of our libraries to make sure that they're meeting the needs of our residents, but also within an envelope of what is affordable as well. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Eady, I've got Councillor Apps, please go ahead, yeah I just wanted to check when the hours were set. You know how long have they been these hours,
instead that that's my main question, thank you.
Mr really, do you want to take that one, if you start mind you, I'm gonna, ask her the head of libraries to answer that one and to introduce herself pace.
Holly there, I'm Chesney Gardner, I'm head of libraries for Richmond and Wandsworth, the hours have been like that for a while, but not since the beginning of the outsourcing contract G, all all there was a change.
approximately.
7 8 years ago by my reckoning, but I'm sorry it's a little bit hazy because I wasn't in post then, so I would have to double check that, but it was there were some changes to opening hours in some of the libraries in Wandsworth as part of savings made at the time.
so they've been around for certainly that long, and that's one of the reasons that we're actually really keen to review them as part of the strategy work that we're doing, because things things change, people move residents move in and out of areas and actually there's quite a lot of work to be done on assessing the need assessing the borough as it is now and seeing how our libraries can best serve those residents as the situation now is rather than as it was.
does that answer a question, and perhaps would you like to come very much, but just for clarity, saying they were reduced about seven eight years ago, sorry, that's my understanding of what you said, but I totally agree with you about reviewing them again now, yeah, they were certainly I cannot definitely say that Northcott was one of them, there were library hours reduced a roundabout that time, I will double-check it for you because, as I say, it predates me so my information on that is is will have to be dug out rather than me having at my fingertips, I apologise to that.
thank you very much, Ms Gardner, I've seen one more hand and then I think we'll we'll move to close the meeting, Councillor Cook, please go ahead.
thank you, I think I can help you at all, I'm surprised you or you haven't got that clear, but I was a cabinet member at the time, I think we find it about 2015 2016.
and we did reduce the hours, but you know what we kept all of the libraries open and I'm very proud and glad that we did. We've built this one new library and neighbouring Labour boroughs closed their libraries and turns them into gyms. So if we can now expand the hours again, absolutely fantastic and and particularly this library, which is a wonderful facility, if we get up six days a week, that would be absolutely marvellous, it's a great great library once the town as well brilliant library this borough, has got some of the best libraries in London, if not the country, and I think we we we came through a very difficult time and we didn't close a single one of them.
thank you, Councillor Cook, and not here to talk about any other borrowers, of course, so that is the end of our papers and I assume you all agree to note Item number 6, No one doesn't want to note at Item number 6, thank you, so I just have some closing remarks, colleagues, to run through before we dash out some members will be aware that there is a democracy review underway.
and we await the final report. The new administration has made it clear that it wants to open up decision-making and give opportunities for more genuine insight and scrutiny to the work of the Council, both internally and externally. We want to start a conversation with Members of this Committee about how we can play a role in this, perhaps through informal task and finish groups to delve into topic areas and make insightful recommendations to the Committee and to the Executive. There are many ways we can do this and we hope it is something that councillors can find interesting and fulfilling. So I understand both groups will have the chance to discuss it more in the coming weeks before we finalise how we might want to take this forward as a committee, so once those early discussions have taken place, I hope the members of this committee can then have an informal conversation about how to take that forward in this committee. I'm just at that point going to pass over to Councillor Gasser, thank you, yeah, so I've got a suggestion it's not actually part of the democracy view, but it's along those lines, and it's for us to maybe try out working more, collaboratively together, and we've got two big pieces of work coming our way until the phase two pieces of work coming away in June, so we've got the Leisure Strategy which will come into us. I would like to invite all the members of the committee to be involved, but let's get together and talk about what we all think our residents want or need from the strategy, and we also have the waste contract which is being negotiated in great detail at this moment and I would welcome your input on two aspects of that, which is the KPI, which can be very important for every single one of our residents and social value which we've mentioned several times this evening and we all care about very much so if you would like to be involved in those two pieces of work and there's outside of the committee structure, but it's for us to start to work together without without arguing, and we've been pretty good tonight, with some problems, for
you know Les there's trying to use all our brains and all our experience, and we all care about the residents and the services they get, so if you would like to do that I mean we could even try and find a date tonight because I try and when we've all got a diaries in front of us because it's so hard we're all so busy.
do very well.
OK, colleagues, it sounds as though there's broad agreement for that and broad agreement that we've got the best libraries in London, so at that point I'm going to close the meeting, so that concludes the meeting of the Environment Committee, thank you all very much thank you to the officers, thank you to anyone who is watching at home and goodnight.