Housing Committee - Tuesday 23 January 2024, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

Housing Committee
Tuesday, 23rd January 2024 at 7:30pm 

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  1. Webcast Finished

yeah
OK, thank you very much, welcome to this meeting and welcome to all the people of second time out of their own.
personal, so I had to come along tonight to watch the the The Committee, my name Councillor White, and I am the Chair of the Housing Committee.
and members of the Committee, I will now ask your names in alphabetical order, please switch on your microphone and confirm your attendance, so Councillor S.
I'm here thank you, Councillor Caddy, good evening, Councillor Davis, good evening, Councillor Dobbins, hi everyone good evening, Councillor Kashin, good evening Councillor, give India good evening, Councillor Mrs. Graham.
Councillor Macleod,
convening Chair Councillor Pol
Councillor Sweet.
hello.
sorry.
and Councillor Taylor good evening.
I would also like to welcome Councillor Dick Adam.
and also a bit music as well.
I would also like to sorry I would also like to welcome Councillor victim as the Cabinet Member for Housing and Mrs. Pryce is the deputy chair of the Borough residents Forum.
we have a number of officers present who will introduce themselves when they address the Committee.

1 Minutes - 14th November 2023

so moving to item 1, which is the minutes, as is everybody, OK with the minutes.
sorry, Councillor, give India cheers it's customary on receipt of minutes to raise any matters that you think should be on the agenda I'd like to, but I think could I defer that until after we've seen the deputation rather than delay them for this evening,
I understand.
so I assume that you are going to take the deputation yeah, what I'm saying is that could we delay my question about what should be on the agenda until after they've done so that we don't delay with our discussions their time?
OK, so declarations of interest.

2 Declarations of Interests

Councillor Paddy, my husband, rents a garage from the council, that's the show I am a Councillor leaseholder.
Sue Tyler I am a council tenant Councillor Paul.
I leasehold that and also rent a garage.
Councillor Macleod, I'm a council tenant.
and I was a member of community renewable energy Wandsworth, which is Crewe and they do have a dealings with the Council, but I don't take any financial benefit from being involved with them.
OK so

3 Borough Residents' Forum - Report of meeting held on 16th January 2024 (Paper No. 24-27)

so if we can take the borough residents Forum report, which is item number 3.
and would Ms Price like to make any comments?
thank you Chair the AGM meeting report, which is circulated, is quite.
consistent to what are still being discussed are only on the matters of the papers that were looked at, which is on today's agenda, I'm happy to answer any questions that Members may have, and I would also like the the Members can take into account any comments we've made on those documents, thank you.
thank you, Ms Price, and also we'd like to.
change the order of business slightly such that Item number 6 will be taken next because we've got a deputation, so we're gonna take the Housing Services activity update paper number 24 0 6,

6 Housing Services Activity Update (Paper No. 24-06)

and
if the person who is gonna give the deputation would like to step forward and introduce themselves.
hello, my name, is Ray Gaz from south-west London, no attentive if is.
Michelle puts forward among the tenants Nightingale Square, temporary accommodation yeah, so I'm gonna be the main speaker and if you have any following questions and then either myself or Michelle will answer them, so I'm gonna start with deputation now, and so the ones I've temporary accommodation campaign involves residents of temporary accommodation across Wandsworth and we would like to emphasise that families should have access to social housing, as for many who call Wandsworth home. Having social rents is the only way to survive in the current housing repairs or cycles
is that that right?
there'd be DJ mix in.
okay, okay, so yeah, we'd like to emphasise the importance of families having access to social housing. There are many people who call Wandsworth home. Having social rents is the only way to survive within this current housing market. There needs to be an increase in council and other social housing, so families don't have to grow old in homes that are considered temporary accommodation but share facilities with strangers. These facilities, these families, have experienced a crisis and local local authority. Housing at its heart is to provide shelter for those who need it due to crisis, not through temporary accommodation, although unfortunately a lot of it is for temporary accommodation, and I'm sure that we ensure that this committee have heard before people have been placed in temporary accommodation for many years and two children grow up sharing a room with all with all facilities in the same room. Thank you to Members such as data and Michelle, who has shared our experiences to influence this deputation today. Rachel and a petition practitioner from a health practitioner from a local children's centre showed me around Nightingale Square Michelle was able to show me the laundry room and introduced me to one of the caretakers. Everyone seemed very positive about the impact that the laundry room, the new laundry room on Nightingale square with hands. The health practitioner was also able to show me of a shared shower and bathrooms and shared toilet facilities in four blocks which, as I said, it's in the blocks had shared facilities at the Square. The Health Practitioner noted that she fought for a
the shared toilet facilities and bathrooms had recently been updated and be decorated, and would like to mention that the condition had improved.
with regard to shared, green and play space, we are pleased that this committee addresses a children's play area at Nightingale Square. The health practitioner also mentioned that currently the household is used at number 2 Nightingale Square which used by the Children's Centre and Beswick Garden to it, and potentially this could be a communal green space that could be better used, and there was also a little bit of a concern that dogs allowed on the square may foul on the play area and that the play area would be close to some residential homes. But we feel that with good design, these issues could be addressed. Creating a shared green space for residents and children is positive for families and children's developments
the initiatives being proposed at Nightingale Square should be explored in other blocks. After leaving Nightingale Square, I was taken to Endo Shim Road site, which is quite close to it. There was what looked like a well-maintained Greasby green space at the back of the building. This is alone the bathroom. The bathroom was in backwards condition and was insufficient, with insufficient an automatic ventilation. The bathroom was small and floor was very wet, so this is multiple homeless families are having to share a bathroom with strangers. The toilet cubicles had clothes drying in them as there wasn't enough space to dry their clothes and everyone's we can understand that for mums it would be difficult to bring children or babies into the shared bathroom and toilets, as there isn't much size
after Invershin Road, I visited Carnie Lodge and although I was unable to gain access because I was no longer the health visitor, so I was being told by residents who have previously lived there that there are issues and that mums.
that still in Connie Lodge needs support, we are grateful that once we have council members over temporary accommodation for women and older workers that are here today that join us at the Forgan have been enthusiastic about working to improve conditions at Carnie Lodge off-site.
we understand that Carnie Lodge is a different footprint to Nightingale Square, but some of the desperation is similar mums are having to even leave children in locked rooms.
I will try to bring them into the bathrooms with them. Mums have reported new cases of depression since being placed their mums living in these conditions for many years with no other options and not knowing when a better housing solution will become available to them is causing anxiety and feeling of hopelessness at Carnie. Lodge mums are also struggling struggling. We've taken laundry to Eva Banda more Tooting stations to wash their clothes and bedlinen. They often have to do this on the bus with large bags and trying to carry children. A recommendation would be that residents residents work with the council to come up with a workable laundry solution in the blocks like Carnie Lodge, there was a historic issue
and again, I'd thank some council staff because it seems to be addressed, but it was a historic issue and there was an issue with the entry door system and the carny lodger is being targeted by people coming in from the street to use drugs. So recommendation would be that there needs to be better security to prevent this happening and better reporting mechanisms when it does development, communal and play spaces. So carny large always close to Tooting Common, that's not always suitable, there is no place play space for young children placed in Connie Lodge, there was no communities face like there is a night and go. Square. Recommendation would be that residents to establish to work with the Council to establish Camino
I'm sorry community space which I will not just go out before, thank you them on-site, to improve the experiences of families that have been placed where we are pleased with the temporary accommodation forum has been set up for movies, continues to develop as we work to tackle these issues and we do once more just like to say thank you for the people in the room who have been part of the temporary accommodation work thank you. Thank you very much linked to that and having been down involved in Nigel's work campaigned for.
a few years ago are really pleased to hear that those developments and improvements have been made, there were long overdue children, positivity.
I just couldn't pass over to our cabinet members to give a reply initially.
yeah, I am I I wanna say, thank you for coming along.
one or a shout out to Joe Rigby Paul Y and and Michelle, in particular, for taking me around the blocks as well, and showing me you know some of the some of the issues with Nightingale Square as far as tempered accommodation.
Rhiannon for the the context for the opposition. Rhiannon is a critical friend of the Council, in the sense that we set up the temporary accommodation forum to try and hold us to a bit more account directly with residents who are in place in tempered accommodation, because we know that you know we've got the B or F for our residents and our leaseholders, but people can be placed in t A and not have that same democratic structure, they can't start residents associations and often they can't even vote for the people who make the decisions because they're out of borough. So the forum is meant to bring in practitioners bring in experts, but also bringing resident voices and we try and meet regularly and they get to feedback
sometimes tough things that we were getting wrong, and sometimes we get we, you know, the laundry room, for instance, suddenly we CA, you know, we'd be campaigning on quite a lot, and so now that we can get it get it to happen.
I guess I'll pass it over to officers to talk a bit more about Connie Lodge, because the way that I see this is we've made a start on improving things that I think are square and done what we can with the capacity of the site Connie lodges. It is a different site with a bit more challenges, but there's there are definitely solutions and I think one of the things I can commit to is going for a walk round with yourselves and the residents of Carnie Lodge to make sure that we, you know, if you've got ideas, I, I shall see them upfront and then know what's possible, I wish we could do a playground similar to what we're trying to do at Nightingale Square. If we can find me the space to do it with, then then then then yeah, we can have that discussion
and I think the issue around yeah, if I I've been to the communal bathrooms as well, in the older building in Nightingale Square, and they really have been improved, and so we we should definitely look at whether we can do that in in Carnie Lodge as well, obviously those temporary accommodation sites are non self-contained sites and Rhiannon has been kind of working with campaigns in London which have noticed that,
Council owned hostel accommodation doesn't have the same requirements as when we have the six week notice on bed and breakfast, so there seems to be a practice whereby councils are off booking many families in non self-contained accommodation for longer than would be acceptable if they were in a private let so that is obviously a bit of a tension between what the legislation is for now.
in the on our sites themselves. I think it's like comparing a private B&B and Nightingale Square or County Lodge is not the same thing because they're in borrower there, they're they're controlled by us. I think it's not quite the same, but I think there is some truth to the element of how long are we keeping people in non self-contained accommodation and how much of the is there a consent principle in that decision making process? So we know in the reality of temporary accommodation there might be a choice between look, we have this non self-contained accommodation in borough. Would you prefer that over and we might be able to do it that way, but I just I think it's something that committees should think about because it's not something I had thought about until it was raised with me by the Forum, so I'll leave it there and then pass it over to Dave
thank you, Councillor Dickie them, Mr worth.
thank you Chair, I don't actually have much to add to what the Cabinet Member said very happy to continue with the discussions we've been having over the last year or so, and to come down and spend some time at Carnie Lodge and see what we can do there.
just for Members who may not be familiar with the site, carney's a bit different, so the bathrooms are shared, the units have their own kitchen facilities.
and so all of the hostels are slightly different from each other, so one size won't fit all, but more than happy to come down have a wander around to see what we can do to address the issues you raised and thank you for raising them.
thank you, so does anyone who wants to ask any questions of the?
of
Councillor Councillor Sweet, I just wanted to say thank you very much for your presentation and a really useful and interesting to hear ha how it is on an on the ground, thank you, Councillor, giving you.
thank you again very much for your your presentation.
apart from Nightingale Square and Connie Lodge all the other facilities you have looked at, if so, would you like to add or talk about those, but if not, are you intending to do that?
thank you, so the other one, I think it's called Elms Elms, Phil Ellis.
everything thank you and erudition, which is quite close to Connie Lodge, and that was similar shared facilities, and I'd save if we're looking at Connie Lodge Venn, and it would also be good to work with Dave for that one, he's been very supportive for the temporary accommodation work we've done so far and and when I was talking to the health visitors think he's yeah there's obviously still a lot of stuff but we're kind of uncovering and when I was talking today
health visitors that managed the children's centres very kindly talking about the mums that come from a different blocks of temporary accommodation, and so they were able to list for temporary accommodation blocks that have kind of.
like historic issues and families that have been there for a very long amount of time, which is why we wanted to emphasise the importance of developing more council housing, so people don't need to rely on live involved in these blocks because there needs to be better housing solutions for them.
thank you, thank you, Councillor McGrath.
again, I want to reiterate thank you for, but for for coming in re super interesting.
I'm sorry, I said, Can you tell me a little bit more about the the the forms, I I, I agree that there are residents in temporary accommodation feel can feel like they're left out some kind of interest in how the Forum works, what are the mechanics, how do people engage with it?
so at rush hour, as you can imagine, it's been a fantastic part of that Forgan and we're very grateful, and it's been in other Members' residence in temporary accommodation, but have also been really significant, as representing their blocks for joining the four rooms, and so I go to a monthly action meeting, and that is when we invite mums. Caregivers single people to join us at it's called St Andrew's Church is home cafes, so it's not. It's not been kind of used as a church, the front of it is used as a community café and people come there them with their temporary accommodation issues and we talk them collaboratively and then those issues are kindly escalated at before them and is still being developed. I'd say, and I think there's still a kind of for collaborative working is kind of figuring out how
it is going to be the most successful, which is why I kind of keep one in her emphasise, it's been so fantastic to have the council officers be enthusiastic about the forum and equally to have the politicians and be enthusiastic about it, because when we've tried to do similar things in other places.
we've not been able to achieve things because there hasn't been back commitment.
yeah, but the pre-action meetings are where people come with issues, and that's where it's escalated. I've been kind of speaking to people who are children's centres and things yeah yeah, just to to add to that, it has been really good to have the opportunity, as a resident, to be able to share some of the experiences. Yeah, that the myself and other other residents have, and so as I, whenever I do get the opportunity to attend, I also try a note by other residents as well, so that they'll know that there is an opportunity to share and have your voice heard. Sometimes I'm not able to make it so they might pass a message onto me and then I can talk about it via the forums, and there has been it's been brilliant to be able to have the opportunity to bring it to the Council and discussed with Council members and see things moving forward, but yeah, it's just the kind of feeds it kind of feeds for you, so just having the opportunity there and then trying to spread the word around around Nightingale Square and our community really
sorry, yeah.
yeah, thank you that that's bring any you, you kind of led me until you have a bit I was thinking, is this spread amongst residents, but just by word of mouth, for how how is how will people even informed about this?
at the moment, primarily, I would say by word of mouth, really, although they've been, they'll be, there got a poster. There's a poster in the in flat number 2, which is where the children's centre is in Nightingale Square, but hopefully we'll be able to get a noticeboard because we find that a lot of the a lot of other residents who might not be parents and resident on Nightingale Square don't look at the Children's Centre and I don't think it's relevant to them. They don't think that there's anything there's gonna be in relation to them. So if we're able to get a communal notice board, then they'd be able to see and be aware of of the opportunities that we have here
very much a Councillor Davis.
yeah, thank you so much for coming in and I explained this spoken to hear about collaboration.
hopefully things can then get better, I'm interested to know about it, it sounds like it's just based on the Nightingale Square and colonies, the Tony Lodge, is it also, I'm open to people living in temporary accommodation all over the borough on site single units?
yet.
sorry, we're talking today about various blocks yeah, but also someone who joins the foreground is in a private, let so he's represented in that kind of aspect of people in temporary accommodation that are placed in private accommodation and based on one who is in a regeneration in a state of its being regenerated and that is being used as temporary accommodation in the last forum we spoke about expanding the membership so having different,
aspects of the burial represented them, since they were competent temporary accommodation residents for them, so I've been speaking someone from our Hampton, so it's like bringing them in so like that voice is included, so that, as we kind of unpeeling things and like meeting different people and the officers I get another shout out kind of explaining the kind of complexities, the temporary accommodation, ambitious different elements but we didn't know.
but that voice also needs to be represented with at the low centre we're getting a few referrals about Kelly, from care leavers, support services and people that are placed in temporary accommodation, ones leaving care, and so that potentially it could be a voice that also needs to be represented, so I think as this is what I mean by like is still in the kind of development aspect as way like learning from each other and realising like actually that voice of be poignant to have as well.
Brian, thank you very much, so there's no more questions.
thank you very much, Vernon Michelle, that was most interesting and let's hope we continue to make the improvements fantastic.
OK, so there are other items in this paper, so is the are there any other questions on paper 24 0 6?
Councillor given your
but two slightly different strands, really one really arising from the deputation.
we have a substantial number of units at Clapham Junction, but the Council sorry, Councillor Kevin J yeah, I'm sorry, we've got a substantial number of units at Clapham Junction, in what would have been the
HS2, while the Crossrail construction site area, several units there used as temporary accommodation in looks like.
there will be undercurrents for quite a long time and it's almost a cluster of units in the same space, and I wonder whether.
officers could look at how the conditions in that area could be improved and come back to us on that, and the second arising from the deputation in particularly Councillor Dick Adams, use of the consent principle use the phrase consent principle and I'm sort of unclear as to what he means by consent, the principle and how it might work here. That's not something I've come across, so can I park that there for the moment then come to the other points later? Thank you. They, Mr worth
temporary accommodation at Clapham Junction yeah so yeah yeah, quite right, Council. There are significant numbers of what we call in our jargon grant attempts, so permanent units used as temporary accommodation, there are a mixture of properties and a longstanding policy going back 10 years or so, maybe longer where they're pepper-potted, but then we've got the concentration in the blocks that were and remain slated for demolition and replacement as part of the the the regeneration master plan.
we, as you know, have a duty to ensure that.
once we've accepted the main duty, the accommodation remains suitable for the household and their right to review that legislation gives to people to request a review of suitability where circumstances change or whatever you so yeah those though that's the kind of landscape of it and you know the consent principle is gotta be viewed in the context of what we can provide the cost of provision and to an extent those conversations happen every day because if we've got a choice between say a non self-contained hostel units such as Connie Lodge or a self-contained property that may be some distance out of the borough officers talking to that family on the day will be explaining those things.
so it's it's kind of working in on an informal basis, will the Cabinet Member is talking about there is developing a policy around that to give people the choice to make that trade off if they wish?
then develop point, and it's probably won't come as a surprise to the officers I raised this last time and the effect I raised it as a written Councillor question, which is about the number of measures we have taken in order to ameliorate the so particularly the turnarounds of properties, so what's the progress on this? Whether the woods are being turned around with greater speed than before and the jobs that we have created, whether all of them are filled, I know the paper talks about it, it doesn't really give granular figures as to how many vacancies are still outstanding while the turnaround and the and the job has been
it almost gives paints a picture that everything is all manageable in OK, and yet I don't see the wide turnaround speeding up, and perhaps I'm not looking in the right places, so perhaps officers can help on both those points.
sorry.
is it on?
there you can hear me now, yeah yeah, so I think I referred to a previous committee meetings about some of the measures to be taken we bought on additional void contractors and we gave uplifts to some of our working forward contractors so they could recruit more staff and therefore work on more voids and and more quickly.
we've gone down from having around 550 void properties at the start of this year to about 360 now, so there's been good progress in clearing a backlog of voids in terms of the turnaround time.
in the figure for quarter 2 was 34.7 days, and it's gone down to 27.0 5 in quarter 3, that's the latest figures I've received.
but it's not something that we're kind of resting on our laurels, for we're constantly looking at ways we can improve, void turnaround, we've got the technical admin posts that have been recruited to they're all in post, and they're all looking within the individual teams as to how we can work with our contractors and work with other officers in the council to try to get those times even better and get those voids turn round more quickly.
I welcome that those figures are a good and positive figures, I am surprised that you didn't feel you wanted to blow your trumpet by writing them in the paper, I am surprised, I am really am surprised that granular information is missing from a paper that is subject to our scrutiny, as is the criticism of the paper really not individuals. The point in paragraph 33 says on the posts it says it's going to most of these new posts were now filled, although inevitably, people are changing, so I just want to similarly a granular picture on how many posts were filled, how many have now moved on, because people do change but say in essence, what is the current vacancy rate? What is the underlying instability in this figure because a similar lines was written last time, so when you just need to better understand
whether we have got this right and whether the pitch is right in terms of pay, whether it pitches right in terms of recruitment, are we attracting the right people, and I'll be incentivising them to stay or all of those things.
thank you, Chairman, I'll maybe provide your comments on that, so just on the voids figure that is reported to the Committee as part of the KPI and performance indication and performance indicator report, so it is before you, although not in this paper on this very lengthy paper,
I'm not disagree on council, just saying it is before the Committee at some point and on the staffing it is a perpetual problem now.
so we're running in my area, at a churn rate of about 14%.
and the market is hot, so we've had people leave to go and become attempt, so the phenomenon we've seen for many years in social work, where the temporary agency market pays as good or better is starting to creep into to homelessness work so we're pretty much running perpetual campaigns, we get good people but they tend to be leaving within 18 to 18 months to two years and some people, as I think I've said before,
you know, it's a tough gig and some people after six months realise it's not for them, so those are that's the the day-to-day problems.
it certainly takes up a lot of manager time to do that almost perpetual recruitment, but allowing for that we're in the best staffing position we've been in for a number of years, so as of today we've got 24 of our prevention officer posts.
occupied,
out of 30 and we've got some tempts ourselves working on some older cases, so we're in a better position than we'd been for a long time, the overall thing, and it was what we said, I think in answer to your recent question to Full Council is turning this around, will it is a multi year project would issues about stabilising and, relatively speaking, we've stabilised or slowed the rate of increase next year and as the paper references with the very welcome uplifting of Local Housing Allowance rates for next year, only, that's a that's a really important thing we can try and exploit. So hopefully, when we come back to Committee in June, we will be in a different position of saying we slowed and stabilised. Now we're gonna move to reduce and, and that's that's the plan, as I see it at the moment. Thank you, Mr work, and it can you just expand on what you signed about it being a tough gig, I mean how hard is it we're working with the homeless department? I mean it has never been an easy role, you know, no one can pretend it has, but what we've seen due to the cost of living crisis and various other factors that various people have, I've mentioned, is
quite often very often now the family who are presenting as homeless as homeless don't just have housing problems, they'll have related issues of of poverty, of vulnerability, et cetera, et cetera, so to that extent the job has got more complicated over years, I mean somebody wants to described the role as kind of like a housing, social, worker type role and I think there's a degree of there's quite quite a significant degree of truth in that in that kind of descriptor.
thank you my letter to them back, I mean yeah, thank you, Mr worth, for your sort of detail or or assessment of the jobs market, particularly, I wonder whether it is the case through the Director and the Cabinet Member working on a wider London basis to tackle all other borrowers poaching other borrowers staff because that's what's really happening here, it's happened indicates the children's social services, it's happened in social work generally and it's happened in as it happened until temporary accommodation, that's not staff related with bricks and mortar and and everyone
sort of badgering everybody else is not the way forward and perhaps a more a London wide concur that could be considered about how to retain staff within London or how to stop the turnaround happening, because everyone's then wasting energy in in there in recruiting and retaining and then moving and moving, and so I, I wonder whether there is an approach like that similar to what was taken on undoing Concordat on temporary accommodation, so whether there is a parallel here to explore the interesting that a free market is causing a problem and wow we need not worry until there is actually no. So so let me just let me let me just tell me if you want to make that cheap point, you may do it, but can let me just make very clear about it. This is about saying that it is a waste of public purse to have vacancies in one borough, because some a neighbouring borough has just turned round and offered more money. It's not a best use of public purse and if it's our responsibility to manage the public purse well, then I am saying, by working together in a cooperative where we would do everyone a power of good, that we can trace these political points, if you'd like it's not going to make one iota difference in terms of additional stuff we need and is not going to make one iota of difference, more importantly in keeping in in providing homes for for or for people who are in need of homes. So let's let's have those arouses we want it. I'm not unhappy about that, but I just think they are futile and pointless now, so as I was just agreeing with you I mean so but it's odd burning up
so I think there is some politics in it, because obviously the first thing we did when we came in is higher. Let me just let me just finish on to your question is that is that it's to hire more staff, because our biggest challenge was the case load that the officers Rwanda. The reason why we couldn't hold on to people is because we had a particularly demanding caseload, we had officers with 80 plus cases and they were there. They were leaving us because we run the resource, so there is an element of argument about investment now, and you're on your point about wider cooperation. I think he said I think it's a really interesting point because it
the parallel to that is the is the Tia itself right, because, fundamentally, the problem with T A is that it is a sellers' market and we are competing with other borrowers to get the best deal for our ones with Croydon is obviously furious to us because we is a nearby borough which works for us and we purchased a lot of Tay in Croydon and in Croydon turns around. But if we don't do that, then our families are likely to be placed further out because of the values in Wandsworth so that the real nightmare of the Tempah accommodation system is really that it forces councils to compete against each other and even worse than that is the fact that it's were held to ransom almost by the providers of those private lets. So you'll remember, at the last meeting we had we had stabilised
at at RTA usage and it was really successful because return of the the staffing system and it worked, we would finally get on top of our numbers, but the budget for T A increased by about 6 million because providers turned round and said market rates gone up, 17% increases in rents pay it, whereas I know I can go to the borough next door because they are desperate because we're all desperate, so I think you're absolutely right, there does need to be some kind of cooperation, but I think it fundamentally requires it. Wouldn't be about setting up some
staffing at work. The real challenge is, how do you stop the T, A system, because a tier system at the moment London Councils are spending 60 million pounds a month collectively, that is public money going into some of the I'd say, the poorest quality private accommodation, landlord's pockets. You will have seen today in Westminster, not just Labour Councillors but Conservative Councillors finally coming out and saying this is unsustainable. Our budgets are all going to collapse because we're spending all this money on T A so
I actually think your starting point is almost parallel to the broader market failure which is we are. We can't work collectively because fundamentally my job is to make sure I get the closest tier to Wandsworth and once with the rates are really high, and I will always want to use my purchasing power to benefit ones of residents, because that's why I'm elected to do and it almost forces you to not be able to work collectively. It's a tragedy of the Commons right so on the staff and arrangement, it's home, it's the same like when I look at the job because I know you see Tower Hamlets put something up and it's like they're gonna pay to grandeur and we're all in this race to the bottom. I think the the the the solution to this is the broader solution of reducing tea, a use and for providing more social housing right, but in the short term, very, very willing to see if we can raise something at the LGA and say how do we create a HR pool or something like that, but it does feel like a Band Aid on a gunshot wound at the moment issue I mean, thank you want to pursue this because I think that we are not going to get them, so there'll be an agreement on this. However, I think, on reflection and by talking to director, you might find that some other work that was done in London Council is probably still being done has borne fruit in the past and can still brought bear fruit in the future, I think it is about talking with, because it's in nobody's interest to keep on hiking up the the cost of either tier or cost of staff.
Council's is.
thank you Chair.
I am concerned about a new-ish allocation policy.
by putting a couple with a baby into a one-bedroom flat, I understand the motives in trying to reduce the homelessness list, and I understand the need to get young families out of temporary accommodation, but I'm concerned that it's a s, it's a short term solution because in only a couple of years
it'll soon be overcrowded when the baby has become a toddler and there's probably another baby and they're all overcrowded in the one bedroom flat.
I wanted to know how many allocations have been have there been so far of these types of families into one bedroom flats.
thank you, Councillor Councillor Atkinson.
unfortunately, we we reported that in June last year we reported every June.
my recollection is we're talking in a year maybe?
60 80 60 to 80 lettings of that type a year, the policy goes back a number of years, but at least 10 to 10 or so years, I will go away and check that report, and let you know after the meeting, but it's somewhere around that kind of number might come back.
does it mean that when the when when, in a couple of years' time, they're suddenly in this or overcrowded situation again doesn't mean they have to go to the back of the queue again and start all over again, yeah so well in a way so,
at the
I haven't become a secure tenant.
of that one bedroom property, the family are able to apply.
to to the tenants, transfer queue for for an allocation and be of a 2 bed or larger, and that will be assessed in the normal way, and there's so to answer what I think is underneath your question, there's no kind of.
top up that they get because they were rehoused into a 1 bed when their child was on when, when their only child was under two.
thank you, Mr. Worth.
Councillor Davies,
yeah, thank you, so I am just just feeling a little bit shocked about this number of mums and babies and 1 bed flats.
and there'd be more people in City jobs, all rooms as well. I would have thought, but my words I was actually interested in is to play for City. I'm so pleased that this is happening after so many years of campaigning from different politicians and community groups, and you know so I can say it's going to happen over the next three years, I've got just a couple of points that I hope that you know as proof of waiting for so long. Maybe it could be staged, so there could be something introduced more immediately and quickly.
I very much hope that it could be age match to the children and if there are children with special educational needs or disabilities, then there could be particular equipment that would be useful for them and everyone else that the parents can be thought of as well. So you know, they're not so lifestyle and saying just pushing a charge on the swing, but they can sit down in a nice shady place or sit down in the sauna or whatever, and have a lovely sort of joyful sense of community that and yeah and finally, you know, I'm absolutely sure you that you're going to be consulted, but who else will be consulted in terms of maybe like the children's centre or you know early years specialists or play playground specialists, for example. Thank you, sorry, Councillor Davies, Councillor Davies, to come from a very experienced background, working for Homestart as well, so you got a lot of experience
yeah, I'm so I do yeah, I do encounter a loss of families in my day, job and I'm casework as well who are in this situation in in temporary accommodation I see the effects on the family the longer that they're there quite often desperation very strong women sort of you got this amazing sense of resilience but with all the latest attacks against them with nowhere nowhere to go not knowing what's going to happen next.
you know, and I just think every little to alleviate that situation and to show that we are together yeah, the batter so well done fuel campaigns.
Councillor Sweet.
anybody else.
yeah, sorry finish the work.
thank you, Chairman, just to clarify the the recommendation for the capital investment into the play area and the landscaping et cetera at Nightingale Square.
the large part of that spending would be slated for the next financial year and we would expect to do most of the works next financial year and in future years budgets are more about maintenance and keeping that up to its original standards of installation.
so you know, once we get into the new financial year, our colleagues in major works will be looking to get those works on site in that year.
thank you, Mr worth the there any more questions.
no, OK, so we're going to we're OK, sorry, we're OK to take this for information.
yeah, yeah, good OK, so.

4 Petition Response - Lennox Estate (Paper No. 24-04)

so the next one is the item 4, which is paper 24 0 4, and this is around the
Lennox, estate petition.
so yes, yes to go back where we are, we gonna do them because we didn't do that, we need the minutes and I think we wanted to just ask a couple of questions about matters arising, I don't know if we can do that now, if that's OK, OK, I thought we had done that, but anyway, yeah yeah, OK
Jamie said just go ahead at OK, fine. I just wondered whether there are a few papers that were expecting to see one of them as on leasehold developments which was referenced at the last Council meeting, and we obviously haven't got anything here at this meeting and the next ones in May, so I just wondered when that would be coming along and then also we usually have an update on the Winstanley regeneration and we're expecting, I think, something on the Oulton regeneration as well and we haven't had that and was just slightly concerned that again, that's gonna be a big gap until May and we sort of
hear about any progress, additionally, obviously with the Council budget setting it's getting very difficult to set a budget, I guess with such a May or two major items which haven't been.
tabled for update
yeah, so on I mean we've got one paper that addresses leaseholders on major works, so the paper on transparency of charges, I've spoken to K after the B or F because we're working, it's basically we don't have much control over it because it's finance that are leading the software update. So if it's you know I basically we're saying we are there's a bunch of policies that coming forward, like the one in this paper that I think pertain to making the lives of leaseholders better and easier and
concern was constructed on the on the regeneration schemes, so on autumn we are at, we are within touching distance, though obviously you know what's going on with the market at the moment in terms of build cost, of which we're trying to bring you something viable, it's otherwise the waste of everyone's time for not bringing something viable on York Road Winstanley,
visit their year, so we are yeah we can't.
I don't want to prejudge anything, but we are where we were, we would understand me, bringing papers when we, when we have.
updates that have.
it is difficult to say because on your equivalent salary, obviously there has just been a delay in the construction period and we're in negotiations, so it's it's.
it is what it is.
just a couple of things. Firstly, the leasehold paper. I think that I was referring to is the one that was referred to at last Council, which was really how the Council is gonna, make the most of some of the government changes that have gone through and how what the impact of that will be, how that will affect leaseholders and how it can take advantage of it, and I think we did reference that there would be a paper coming to this Dudley Welby I don't think we said I said that well, but it's gonna be at the next Committee, but I'm definitely gonna do one and definitely will do I'm sorry Cardinal, I think my question was at Council, would you bring forward a paper at the next Committee and you gave me that assurance
I specifically my question at Council, I don't think you've s, you said I'll at the next housing guarantee over the family, my recollection we can go over the transcript at some point, but that's certainly my recollection.
given the importance of that legislation, I told you that I thought the legislation wasn't particularly very good, no no, but it's weak, it's a weak piece of legislation, I said that in the debate, so we think that there have been no, nevertheless, it's a significant piece of legislation we are here sat at a Housing Committee, the government's introduced the most significant piece of legislation affecting leaseholders in decades and so far we have had no response from the Cabinet Member or the Council in terms of how it will respond to that legislation that to me is the equivalent of a dereliction of duty that is obscene, as I've seen in favour of what is absurd and sorry it's got nothing to do at the minute and I and the cabinet member 0 sorry Councillor Golton as well Councillor C Ashton, the the the Cabinet Member, said the paper will be coming forward so that's been dealt with.
again, Councillor Councillor Cathy, historic. It's just very quick and we have a reassurance that will be at the next Committee. I mean, of course, but when it's ready, of course, so it will be coming forward, so could you, I mean specifically in that discussion was about what we're doing for leaseholders, and I said no, or I said very clearly, that we are bringing forward papers that affect our leaseholders. We have a whole policy programme for leaseholders in this paper is one of those papers. It was a reference to major works
we are hiring new staff in order to make sure that major what major, which is the main complaint that we get from leaseholders, I mean I don't think that's a small issue, so I'm not saying it's a small issue but it's a singular OK can we can we re, I know you have this discussion now in place in place Councillor, giving you slightly concerned about the references to York Road Winstanley and just medicines.
we are effectively be sitting.
by agreeing all the financial implicate implications for next financial year for the Housing Committee in this papers. Today we're doing the revenue side with the weather, with the with the rents we're clearly got some major works commitments in here, and I'm just wondering whether not having an update on any potential financial impacts of what the cabinet member said about Belgrade when suddenly and I understand the business side of it, I mean the the confidentiality side of things, so I'm not pushing you to say anything, but I'm saying that given that the fact there isn't a paper, does that not weaken some of the decisions that we are being asked to make. Looking forward, I mean affected, you've got your business plan implied in the in the Rennes paper
that and I suspect the answer will be no and we can move on, but I am deeply concerned about that and gaps in our knowledge in setting up setting the the budget for next year again, this is all serious.
yeah, as I think is to keep me or committee, might be aware that the normal processes that normally in January, the JVs business plan for the forthcoming year comes to committee.
it's not been impossible to yet agree that in partly due to difficult financial circumstances.
in the wider market, so that still under negotiation with with Taylor Wimpey, what we tend to do in terms of the financial assumptions if we make a recent assumption about the programme delivery and the phasing of the phasing of the scheme, so I think whilst the business plan didn't come to this committee as it normally does that there will be an update at the next meeting and any financial consequences arising from that business plan.
we made explicit in that report
no thanks that yeah, as I think we should ask, asked the Committee whether the minutes are agreed.
can I thank you.
a so we're on to Item 4 paper 24 0 4.
and
officers are Mr Richardson and Mr alcohol.
position this position again.
yeah, but if there are questions.
are there any questions?
Councillor Kershaw.
well, thank you very much for.
having a paper on the petition yeah, and as it's clearly stated, this was a position that I brought to Council and yeah, I appreciate and a knowledge that, or I appreciate, the council's acknowledgment of the residents' concerns.
my concern is that you know that there's precious little of substance in this response about the plans there's not much at this stage to reassure residents regarding those plans, I understand that we're at an early stage of the planning process and that the public consultation is still in the process of going on.
and it's been deferred, it was originally meant to be this month and it's been deferred because of the Tooting Broadway by election.
but that would suggest to me the fact that it was going to take place in January that there are quite defined plans, particularly relating to site locations, that haven't been released yet.
and my understanding from my colleagues who attended that the premium with officers is that those site locations do exist so they are potentially available for public.
access and public viewing, and I would like to move an amendment I gave my the wording of my amendment to Mr. Kelly, I don't know if there's a a copy that I can have at the moment.
yeah, I wouldn't mind reading out.
thank you.
residents so yeah, amendment to paper 24 and 4, proposed by Self and seconded by Councillor Mrs. Graham residents of the Lennox estate, are understandably concerned about the implications for the local area of the homes for once with programme and are entitled to as much information as possible about major planning decisions which affect them.
the Committee therefore asks that information on all proposed redevelopment sites for the Lennox estate is released, with immediate effect, to allow residents to know the locations of any future buildings, as well as changes to play space, open space and management of parking ahead of any public consultations and I'd like to put that to a vote.
I mean just out of curiosity, given that you could have said that to me.
the it when did you given the petition many months ago, you could have just sent that to me and asked for some details on this, like if I don't I, if you want to play politics with the Lenox before we've even had the consultation personally?
the nation,
the consultation was due to happen in January, so it was fairly last minute change because of the Tooting Broadway by election so yeah.
that that's the reason for that so.
there is also waiting for the response to the paper as well, but we're waiting for the response to the petition.
the information is there, the information is something that's worthy of being put out to the public, especially residents of the Lenox estate. Why would you not have it in this paper? That's my question, is there any good reason why it's not in this paper you genuinely asked me why, instead of running the consultation with the residents in the way that we do, which is open to residents, we haven't done a weird political show trial here at this committee where there are no red, though there might be two residents in the gallery from the Lennox, but the vast majority of them
wouldn't be able to, or obviously we're not gonna do, that, there would be that'd be crazy, not, but wouldn't it help for them to have that information ahead of the consultation so that they could participate in the consultation and the most informed way possible?
I mean, I I hadn't I haven't thought about and I'm sure I mean it's worth talking to John Andy about what it would look like for us to maybe have an open source site where people can look at before they go to the Walker and I mean but I'm not going to be jumped into a decision on something about consultation at a committee meeting particularly because there is a kind of process that you will realise.
we've got many stages to go through and we do it in an environment in which they're like experts, people can ask questions.
we can try and design online webpages in the moment the letters go out and drop in the end of the consultation has physically happens, it all becomes public anyway, but there's a kind of leading in process which I'm sure Joe and Andy can explain better I I'm not in principle against the idea of what you're saying because it would have happened if it hadn't been for the by-election but,
again, I need a bit I'll be needed if I need a bit of steer from experts on this.
enriched sorry, but the question is, is it the current thing to kill me, sorry, so you're not sharing a meeting of Oz, Mr. Richards and sorry yeah, I could come at that point, I mean the the this consultation process is forms. It is aligned with the Council's approved
consultation process for new developments in the thousands programme. That process is that we have. We offer all residents of that estate and indeed local residents. The opportunity to meet people face to face meet the design team face-to-face on a given day. That consultation period then extends for three weeks after that, during which point and indeed thereafter, those consultation boards and the presentation materials are available to view and on comments are invited during that period, and indeed the subsequent full consultation that will follow. That is the process I mean. That is why we do this is that we offer people face to face opportunities, to speak to the architects, landscape, architects and, hopefully to provide that assurance. We show our workings we're not presenting and we don't have a set of fully resolved drawings as I think you seem to employ. We simply don't we have a ideas around this, but we want to share with people in a in are open consultation process in a in advantage. Again, since this paper was drafted, I can confirm that that data has been booked for the 20th of February. The invitations are due for are out for print and Indy, will sending them out via two particular two methods. So we hope that both the people actually will receive two copies of the invitations, because one being the insurance for the other one if it fails, so we're sending them out via a direct delivery and Royal Mail, so those imitation will reach people by the 1st February and ready for that consultation in good time for the for the 20th, but all of that material will be available on the council's consultation website from that that date of that consultation
OK thanks a nice sorry, can we move on, so I think I requested the question has been answered, Councillor good design, sorry, Councillor Convener, I don't know what Councillor Lamb Gwen is going to do about his.
it is motion, but I just thought that it might be helpful to look at paragraph 12 of the chief executive's, obviously getting the right following this meeting to the lead petitioner and perhaps the chief executive's letter could be more elaborate than his usual letters are and include the kind of stuff that Mr Richardson has just mentioned at the meeting on the 20th and that, in advance of that meeting, or at that meeting and around their plans showing what's in and what's out an opportunity to have dialogue, dialogue on a one-to-one basis, more granular than a kind of we've considered your petition, and you know everything's hunky-dory, usually comes from chief execs, so I think a more detail, more engaged, more accommodating to the petitioners, ones in which wishes letter could be considered. After all, it's only one letters necessarily
yeah, I think that's a sensible suggestion, I'm sure we can do that in terms of the letter.
yeah, I'm sure.
OK so good and take a vote on the amendment unless there was any golf question I was going to say we gonna take a vote on the amendment.
we still want to go yeah OK, so I can I just get an answer to my question why you didn't send it to me earlier, so we could have had a discussion about this and tried to work out because this seems like political points laying on on housing and I just think in the in the context is that it's just a waste of everyone's time OK I don't want answers at the answer that you don't have to answer that let's legislate to go straight into the
the vote on the amendment that those in favour of the amendment
against.
so can we receive this petition for information?

5 Homes for Wandsworth Update (Paper No. 24-05)

okay, fantastic, so we're moving on to Item number 5, which the homes are forms of update paper 24 0 5, and if the same officers would like to introduce paper place.
the temperature yeah, the paper is an update on progress across the the housing for the homes of one sort of development programme.
with its with its target of 1,000 homes for council rent
as as you see by the dashboard, which there was a, there was a link to that, which, if the link is, which I believe the link works, and if not, you can copy and paste that they're into a dashboard into your website web browsers, you'll notice that we are just four units shy of the halfway point in terms of our homes that are actually,
started, basically in which includes 206 homes that have actually been completed, or recent completions include, as are shown in the paper there, it column wafers down, which is a a new scheme for.
for those with a learning deficit, difficulties a similar sort of the scheme in terms of its scale and indeed user groups.
it has been considered at the best were worried, which again, I think illustrates the there was a quality that we're seeking to deliver throughout the programme.
just touching on the section on the supporting the Wandsworth environmental and sustainability strategy again that the Home, but the the scheme illustrated at Westborough Road, will be the council's first homes certified to passive house standards.
the programme has long since been adopting typo homes in the programme have long since been designed to passive house standards of insulation and and therefore you know, really exceeding the minimum mandatory minimum standards by some distance there, but as I say, this is the first of of multiple schemes in future that will be actually certified to pass at our standards, that's if I may overlook two reference questions.
thank you very much, Mr. Richardson, so, Councillor Kelly.
thank you very much, Chairman. I am just slightly concerned that it seems to me that we're being asked to nod through small revisions, and it's it's not entirely clear to me from the attachments that they asked more revisions, and I guess my concern is that we're not going back and re consulting the residents on what could be sort of relatively significant changes or they might find relatively significant changes, and that's not really in line with the gold standard of consultation, which is what we we sort of always had as our aim for the thousand homes scheme that we would actually in a race or involve residents go above and beyond, as the is the kind of freeholder of the land make sure that people are aware of exactly what's going on and I'm just sort of very concerned that this is a a bit of a sort of nod through something that's that's not particularly minor
yeah, if I could take that.
yeah, I mean they, there's a number of different reasons for these variations and indeed some come directly from feedback from local residents, the the committee will recognise the the first scheme actually under the according estate where the sunken garden was subject to a petition from local residents inviting us to include the sunken garden within that scheme.
and upgraded as part of our proposals, which we very much welcomed and hence the red I just just wanted that one, but I I won't go through every line by line, and most of these are.
yeah, as I say, it's the, there are various different grounds for for doing so.
what I will say, though, is is in terms of transparency. I mean this is an evidence of of the Council being transparent about its consultation. We we don't go out whether fully resolved set of plans on any of these schemes, and part and parcel of that is that we do make these changes as a preventative reasons, including feedback from local residents, including viability, concerns about particular schemes that we've not had in mind once, but actually I've adjusted now every single scheme that is being shown as the dusting here has had a round of consultation at least one to date and, in some cases, to announce the date of consultation where we have shown the impact of these these changes to local residents. So and on top of that, as these schemes come forward for planning applications, the Local Planning Authority will of course lead their own
final consultation process showing these locations anyway, so we appreciate that.
you know, we could have perhaps identified the their differences, but it's yeah, there's a there's a large number of changes and one and we have been very open about this, and indeed, as I say, the the consultation process has picked up these changes along the way. Thank you, Mr Richardson, any other questions I thought I saw those signs on the other side first, so Councillor could say thank you
this is an elaboration of Councillor caddie's question I mean going to paragraph 2, A.
were being asked, or the Executive is recommended, to approve small revisions to the red line plans for the estates mentioned in this paper, I'd like to know how smallest defined I mean, would a completely new building design, change the location and reconfiguring of existing of the existing site to accommodate that new building design and change of location would that be defined a small,
am I I am?
yeah and esoteric yeah, it's a Turkey word to us because we didn't have a resource that had climate, that there was no quite incorrect finalise design. This is an iterative process, so we're showing our workings and, and it would sound like I I don't understand the point, that my God should maybe provide a bit more information, so I'm talking specifically, it may affect other sites, but I think it particularly affects the
in its gardens.
site where the building has been significantly moved and as a result of that, it's resulted in the space between two existing blocks being filled.
the building design has changed completely from what I can tell from the the the the plans, the drawings that have been given to me, it seems to be a completely different set of proposals so that that suggests to me that, given the residents being presented with a completely new set of proposals than a complete, completely new public consultation process should start from scratch in relation to those new plans.
otherwise it looks like, and I'm sure this is not the Council's intention, but it looks like the council are trying to push through at the 11th hour, these so-called small changes which aren't really small at all.
yeah I McKenna and I are again, as I said earlier, the Lyoness Gardens site essentially changed because we we looked very closely at the original original area of focus we moved away from that because of various different concerns about.
mature trees, various other Marais, so the points about it, the the second consultation, held in second of it's held in April 2023, showed the revised low revised location and indeed there was a third concern for further consultation in September 2023, which also showed that revised location so there will then be a third round of a third opportunity for residents comment as part of the local planning up with local planning authorities statutory consultation so
there has been a lot of. There has been three opportunities to comment on this, at what we do today and there will be a third to follow, so I I do appreciate that, but if there are these constant revisions, then almost by definition, there will be fewer opportunities for public consultation because you're changing it as you're going along, you can't start the consultation process from scratch each time, so if there are all these changes as you go along by definition, people have less time to respond to it, that there are no, there are no revisions
it's only Mike on place.
the design amendments have happened through the process, so changing the red line is necessary. Transparency for this committee and for the public and to reflect our response to the changes that have come through the design process. I don't think when committee said I agree these red lines, it was seen as an absolute constraint, and our brief was therefore to put up shoddy development or compromise developments because the red line was was strictly strictly drawn. We've consulted on the plans and the proposals and, as a consequence, in some cases the red line has changed.
sorry, just I I appreciate, thank you Chair just allow me one more time to raise a point.
there's this reference to red lines, I mean, these are real buildings on real estates involving real people, and in, particularly in the case of Venice garden site, A we're talking about a completely different building and a completely different location, with completely different reconfiguring of space, and that needs to be acknowledged and I don't think it is,
can you answer answer that again please?
so is a completely different building in it in a completely different way. I mean by completely different voting. I think that I think it were a reference to rather a simple, essentially block plan that was placed on a plan to indicate where we were looking at. I mean that there was there was no resolved building there and the the they tell Plan 1, I'd say we're working up the detail for the final stage of applying for the planning application, but we there has been two rounds of consultation showing this location to date and there will be a third
OK, thank you, sorry, Councillor debris.
thank you say now that the thousand homes programme is 100% council housing, I think we're leveraging more GLA grant on each of the units have we seen an increase, therefore, in funding per unit, and could this be seen as leveraging greater investment for public assets for our borough?
yeah police report that we, we've made, it say we have a very positive working relationship with the GLA and through that relationship we have.
basically double d' grant Greg per unit from the previous allocation under the previous administration to what it is now that relationship continues and indeed we were in very regular dialogue to to draw in and attract the, or the even more funding for it for the units that haven't yet received on allegations but yeah, it's a very positive relation with the jury I know very, very supportive of of the borrowers objectives.
thank you, Councillor J, giving you.
to 2 questions, gonna just go back to the issue, a red line in whatever.
but I understand some of the difficulties here Park is.
it something that I've seen before elsewhere and so on, but what I have not I struggled to get from these papers is where was the red line where is now the red line and then some narrative which is not in the paper?
in the narrative to say why has it moved? I accept entirely that in a process which is intuitive things move, but in essence it should be open to us as to where the movements have happened and, more importantly, open to the residents where the movements have happened and then an argument as to why and how? That's why those movements have happened. I mean there are arguments, no doubt all the time, but clarity of where we were and where we are going is what I was looking for in this papers and I struggled to find it sort of, for example, a Croydon estate. There are four sites here B and C I can see I've been expanded quite significantly. There's a narrative to say why they have, and it's more or less clear. Although the map you would have to go to a golden map and a new map to see whether and where the movements have happened in case of DNA, they haven't changed and then again you know the narrative say, sir, elsewhere I'd struggled
so there's one that's one point, and the second point is in paragraph 26, the south-London legal partnerships.
the point about reviewing of the title, deeds and so on, so I just wanted assurance that, if any of this costs.
I mean that the leaseholder whose lease papers will have to be reviewed and their titles be amended, who will bear the cost of that and when that costs in in all sorts of things will they have a right to choose their own solicitors, will the council bear the cost and when the Council, if the Council agrees to bear the costs, then will that cost fall on the General Fund or will it fall on the housing revenue account and if so, will it come under the under the thousand homes programme and so on and can we in due course have some sort of a budget line in the in the budget for Council has announced programme as to walk the costs of reviewing those those leases and title deeds happy?
can you comment, I think we've added a lot about the first question that was asked, so can you comment specifically about what's different between the Croydon B and C and the Innes Gardens, I such that there is what suggested to be a different wording in the paper,
I'm why is it yeah I mean as outlined I mean each each changes is, as is really a.
there's no, there's no one reason for everyone and there's a some, some some ministers, it is positive feedback, as I alluded to earlier, about the petition that received about it, others are literally variability, so the short answer is I can I can put the plans against each other and I'll show you I mean that's that it's not a massive exercise at all.
near one was the around the review and the costs.
yeah, I mean, if any costs are are effectively site assembly, costs and or cost to the HRA capital programme cost of this scheme in practice, I think they've been, they've been minimal, we have statutory powers to deal with the SIF negotiation file. I'll be surprised if it's more than tens of thousands, if not thousands, across the whole programme Thursday so it's a nominal amount and it falls to the HRA capital programme, not the General Fund or to the
the HRA revenue.
well, I've only only, insofar as via the HRA capital programme, so your point is, if they need to employ solicitors surveyors to negotiate on their behalf, both costs are borne by the council through the journey through the project through the HRA capital programme of 1,000 homes programme.
Councillor Davies, thank you to you and I'd like to tell you and say I appreciate the paper and particularly the the dashboard, and that's quite working, and I'd like to ask about the passive house recognition, whether this is OK and be our standard for all homes and secondly what the benefits are in terms of both the CO2 emissions saved and 4 and the residents their energy use and costs, thank you.
I
regrettably, I can't say that every single scheme will be from that point from this point forward will be passive, I would simply because there are locational factors which can't always be delivered upon, but those that we've identified will will certainly go for it.
go for full certification, even when we're not going for full certification we are, we are incorporating the most fundamental points about passive House principles, which is to you know, to increase the amount of insulation versus previously standards to reduce air leakage, they're they're much more airtight.
so again, passive principles, literally as as it as the as the certification describes yeah, we were were very much pushing the standards and we're pushing as far as we can, whereas I'd simply can't confirm that we will get certification every single time, but it's very much a target one on front and centre of our thinking and healthier homes and cheaper to run Councillor Brian described.
I really do hope that you have further consultations on this because the design has changed and I really want you to have been listening to residents and not before letting them.
when when I look at Hayward Gardens A and B,
and when I look at in his Gardens, the design of when it was built was flowing and open, you have actually got blocks that impact on that, that you know the whole community so.
my my comment is the fact that
residents do have a right to space and do have a right for light, and so my question on that, especially with Haywards Garden.
a and B the day off so blocking, and I would like to know if a building which has enjoyed unobstructed light.
do they have a legal right to light, because this is also one of the issues which residents are raising?
yeah, we have we employ specialist consultants to pick up those and their reports are uploaded on to the consultation website so but the
those proposals will indeed be reviewed by Local Planning Authority and those reports will be reviewed.
yeah, I do have a right, but there is a, there was a level, but at which that right will be impacted and the proposals that we have are within that tolerable level.
well, I I really do feel that this really needs further consultation, because you have to have happy residents, and there's certainly yeah, though there will be further consultation, that's part of the they also to the the assessment of daylight sunlight is planning function, there will be CofE,
yet nobody and the planning authority will consult on the proposals, and presumably our daylight sunlight reports will be published, so when you say, will there be further consultation through the planning system, and that's the ultimate arbiter of whether our proposals are reasonable or not?
okay, Councillor D Shing, so you'll be pleased to know. This is a suggestion, a helpful suggestion, rather than a question at the same point again, it follows on from a Councillor of India's point about you know that the lack of detail and lack of explanation, and I think that there's no substitute for being able to see things with your own eyes and I had the benefit of meeting residents in Innes Gardens, the other day and having a walkabout, and that's that that really brought to life. For me, the scale of the changes and the and the consequences of what's being proposed, which sort of gave me the idea. Why wouldn't it be possible, for example, to arrange walkabout and invite the committee to walkabouts? There could be a representation of residents officers, obviously there as well, for all of these sites. So actually, when we do come to Committee, we know we were approaching it with an informed mind
we did go for a walkabout on that were taken round by the officers, but you right we didn't meet we didn't yeah, we didn't meet with the residents, yeah I I think residents and particularly with these recent changes as well I think yeah there's probably OK I think we've been further than that again so,
I just feel like I have to say something, because the the discussion to me doesn't seem to represent the point of the paper I mean, we brought this to the committee not to try and I mean the absolute opposite of what's been suggested, it was in order that I mean these changes in some ways don't necessarily merit a paper, but we wanted to make sure every single detail of the changes were open and transparent and publicly available, and I know yeah yeah OK
the the the changes that have been made have been seen at the public consultations multiple times they would check. These aren't changes that happened at the last minute in the last. That's that's just not the function of what's happened, and I know Joe has explained that multiple times, but you're suggesting that what happened is that the final hour we've suddenly made some changes and whereas that's just that's just not the case, so the and also there seems to be a kind of chicken and egg discussion around how the consultation functions because obviously, like you said, that's an iterative process, so the aim is to try and make the changes that make the sites work better. So if we have an original idea at the beginning and there are changes by the end of it, that's often a positive process has happened either because of resident feedback, because we've tried to design out some of the negative externalities, and I mean I just I just have to say to the Councillors who were now very much against the thousand homes programme you know like Lytton Grove is a site where which is very near Putney, the Putney sites at Harrow Gardens, and one that is often brought up
0my God, you know that we're terrified, it's going to end up like Lytham Grove, which I think will be a brilliant site once it's finished, but has obviously gone on longer gone on longer. Yeah, but yeah, but you understand, like you, also you all, that was your programme, we inherited your programme if if Lytton Grove was acceptable, but now suddenly it's not acceptable because of politics. I just think that's disingenuous, so I actually enjoy Robbie, I think you're very good on this, I think you're very good on this, I think you're open and you're serious, and you and you hold us to account when it's necessary, but some of the politics on the thousand homes to me just seems like it's you're misrepresenting what was the point of this paper was this paper is not a paper that was about last minute changes. It's to bring to the committee the changes that took place because of a consultation process which goes above and beyond the statutory the statutory process. Now now the issue is the issue is that residents don't want anything built that I completely understand that we've had deputations about it, people writing to me about it, I've gone to meetings with many of the people who are in the gallery. I've done those walkabouts that I can completely understand their position and I've I've gone through these arguments multiple times, but this paper is not a paper about this paper is a paper that should reflect how the Council was trying to be transparent, and I just wanted to put that across because the debate didn't seem to highlight that OK, can we move to the vote then please
are you voting?
that was, how are you going to vote against some of this, are you gonna, vote against all of them?
against the whole lot right, OK, so those in favour of A B C and D hands up please.
and those who?
thank you, I would like to take a break now for about 10 minutes so that a comfort break.
big because the chair really needs one so.
all the officers.

5 Homes for Wandsworth Update (Paper No. 24-05)

the case if we restart we're gonna, are we waiting on anyone's one back?
okay, brilliant, OK, so Item number 7, which is the social housing original Regulation Act and its paper number 24 0 7 and.
Ms Wilman.

7 Social Housing Regulation Act (Paper No. 24-07)

and Mr Crowley.
hi everyone.
so this paper is just to give Members an update on the new powers in the social housing regulation Act. So I'm sure some members are aware of it. So there's always been a regulator of social housing that's regulated both local authorities and housing associations, and they in the past have had quite a low level of regulation and there's been this level called the serious detriment test. So it can only be normally when a local authority or housing association is failing that the regulator will step in, so this Act is is changing that and making the role of the regulator much more proactive role where they will be moving to four yearly inspections, so almost like an Ofsted type of inspection of housing providers so that's any provider with more than a thousand homes.
sorry, so they've also included the a review of the consumer standards, I don't know what's happened, sorry, I've sort of half-joked.
a review of the consumer standards and members were may remember a previous committee, I can't apologise to the customer and believe that one, I think it might be in June last year we came with a review of the housing service standards, so that was done through a series of focus groups with residents and that was to align with the proposed consumer standards at the time so the consumer standards,
I've the there, there's been a whole consultation, progress and process and they are coming out with new standards, but they've advised providers that they aren't going to change fundamentally from what they consulted on, and therefore housing providers should already have been thinking about those changes which we did with our service standards and our annual report to residents which goes in home life and newsletter will also from this year we set out by the new standards because currently it reflects the old consumer standards.
so also in the role of the regulator is a named health and safety lead, and we since September last year have got a new Fire Safety Lead in post and they will be coming to Borough residents Forum, the next Borough residents Forum which is in June to introduce himself to residents but they're also it's called Jonathan Lynch he's also proactively getting in touch with residents now in in the high rise blocks and doing a lot of work to to meet the aims of the fire fire and building safety legislation that's coming through.
so I also wanted to talk about ours, so we've got a set of before chocolate hours long, I've got a set of tenant satisfaction measures, so they are partly what they say on the tin, their satisfaction measures and their questions that you have to ask residents most of those we asked either or the identical question or something slightly different in the past so we've since tweaked our
satisfaction surveys that go out to residents and they now reflect the new tenant satisfaction measures, and we all will have to report those from April 24 to the to the government and then from autumn 24, those will be published, so all it will allow us to then benchmark against other London authorities authorities, similar sized was housing associations, et cetera.
and within those tenants, satisfaction measures, there are a few that are around health and safety show things like gas safety checks completed which we already report on in our quarterly indicators. So the next thing I wanted to met mentioned, then was Arab law, so obviously, after the tragic death of our best shack, there's been an amendment to the act which has been referred to as Arab law outlaw and that obliged landlords to investigate and fixed reported hazards in the home within a specified timeframe or rehoused tenants where the these cannot be made. And this is all in relation to damp and mould. So as a result of that we set up a team and in-house damp and mould team of
to officers, and now we're proposing, within this, to meet the aims of the the new regime. We are moving from two officers in house to six, so that is going to be covered within existing resources because the the money that we're currently spending to use our contracted repair repair contractors when we'd allow be doing that resource in house and we within that they'll go and wash off the mould, and then we've got officers will go out and then make an assessment of or if any, other remedial works need doing in the property. So what I would say in conclusion to to to the new regulatory regime is
you know, no, no authorities or housing associations disagree with what set out. It's all stuff that it, we should all be aspiring to do, but obviously it's it's difficult. And on consultations we've responded where it's difficult to address some of these things without new burdens funding, so we do need, when we do really need new funding from government to be able to do some of these because we are currently having to just absorb that into the to the existing HRA, so just open to any questions really
thank you, Ms Wolman, or any questions Councillor Swe,
thank you, Chairman of him, in paragraph 23, you set out some of the new.
requirements that there would be around timetables for addressing hazards, I just wonder if there's any idea at the moment, even just an estimate of whether the Council currently meets these timetables or whether there'll be an additional burden.
sorry.
yeah, I mean we the main hazard, obviously that's reported within social housing at the moment is is mould, we've set up this small removal team they get out to properties as quickly as possible to remove it, but one of the issues we have is that they,
there are lots of requests that come in to that teams, they can't always get out as quick as we would like, sometimes it can take some 20 days, that's about the average over the last quarter, to get in and remove the mould and move the hazard from the property.
and that's really why we're looking to expand the team so that we can make sure we remove it more quickly, I mean other hazards they're reported to us are usually particularly if there's a obviously a threat to health and safety, they're usually sorted out by our Air repairs contractors within 24 hours a few days particular if they relate to things like electrical faults, et cetera.
so I'm pretty confident we we do deal with these hazards in a timely manner, but in relation to mould removal, I think we can improve that, and that's really the purpose of this element of this paper is to explain how we can do that and and why we're increasing the the size of that modern mobile tin.
okay, Councillor Davis.
yes, thank you them, is yeah, it's good to say that Wandsworth is slightly ahead of the game here and I wanted whether, even during the waiting period, whether it would be possible, I don't know few lone people dehumidifiers to so soppy is slightly alleviate the probably more but this topic gets even worse.
we tend to provide dehumidifiers where there's been a leak into a property and there's a drying out period, and we can in how we enhance that dry out priority. I get the properties dry out more quickly by providing a dehumidifier. They tend to be the situations where we provide one if it's a case of condensation related mould. What we want to do, and we do though, is to go into someone's property, remove the mould as quickly as possible, because that's obviously the hazard, but then we'll talk to the resident and the mould removal officers are trained to do this. They'll talk to the resident. Provide advice on how they can help prevent more conversation room related mould from forming
but there's also then a follow up from the estate manager in the Area Team, where they will visit the property within usually 14 days from when the moulds have been removed to talk to that resident again about those issues and then they will look at what we can do within that property to to help situation and sometimes that can be checking that the heating systems working properly and arranging repairs of that sometimes it will be to do with the ventilation of the property so it might be repairing extractor fan or it might be.
in some more extreme cases, installing a positive input ventilation system so that you're really doing everything we can as a as a housing provider to make sure that the money doesn't come back and obviously the residents we hope will follow our advice to to help with that so dehumidifiers I think that the answer to an extent in certain circumstances but we wouldn't provide them as a matter of course to deal with compensation would let him know.
thank you, Councillor Convener, thank you, Chair, to two points really.
is there anything in the in in the new?
legislation about measuring the Council's effectiveness in tackling anti-social behaviour complaints.
and the second question release in paragraph 29, you refer to mode officers, getting this job title is going to be an attractive job offer, well will people be queuing up to become mould officers, is there not a better way of describing that job?
I did pick that up as well, I think, elsewhere in the report they are deemed to be at mould removal officers, so I think there's a slight change of which is which is an improvement on that, but yeah I mean they need to give that some thought.
but if I could just come back on that bud, I mean I think that's a fair point, we we do, we did find it relatively easy to recruit to the two fixed term posts back in March last year, but yeah, we can take that away and have a think about changing that.
yeah, so on anti-social behaviour, one of the tenant satisfaction measures relates to a sb cases relative to the size of the landlord, and we also ask questions around satisfaction on that, so it is covered.
Councillor Mrs. Graham,
thank you Chair.
following on from what Councillor Sweet was mentioning paragraph 23.
I'm reading these additional obligations will then automatically become implied term of the existing tenancy.
agreements, meaning that the landlord will be liable to breach of tenancy so ha ha, how are you looking for Harry Centre to manage that but would have to have legal advice, and would it be in a tenancy agreement going forward?
I think the the reason we've put that in now is to say that normally, if we might changes to the tenancy agreements, we've got to consult with all secure periodic tenants, which is quite a lengthy process, but this is saying it's an implied term in the in the tenancy agreement, so it would all already be covered in sort of the general obligations around the councils doing repairs and the implied term would be the name. The implication would be would have to be within it within those timeframes. I think it would be obviously we'd be aiming to do it within those timescales, but I think it would just have to see what comes out of that.
Councillor Pope, I'm just going back to the able, damp and mould, basically, I think, if be, the issue is more structural and we've got these kind of really short deadline time frames to deal with something that is more structural, what actually happens with the residents what's the plan then?
I believe each property will one look at on a case by case basis.
the vast majority of cases of mould in a property you can resolve in the way I've described by removing that mould.
and then increasing the ventilation or adjusting the heating within the property and, obviously, providing advice to the residents.
in more extreme examples, it doesn't tend to be the issue with the block itself, sometimes it's something like overcrowding.
and then there may also be, you know, people in the property who have medical issues which mean that you know they are more impacted by by mould, for example, that kind of hazard in the home and, in the most extreme cases, we might leave someone to to an alternative property but that doesn't tend to be an issue with the block itself and you know all the blocks that we have or are well maintained and there are things we can do to alleviate issues of damp and mould within those properties.
the the, we think it's more complicated when, for example, it's an issue of water ingress and then the one that's the cause or
contributing to the mould issue, but then again, that's a case of either repairing a leak in a property above or repairing or a leak from a roof, so there's there's ways that we, we will deal with it, and obviously we'll deal with it as quickly as we can.
Councillor Macleod,
thi thank you know, God, yeah. I agree with the officers that that these regulations are welcome. I think that, as as Councillors, I'm sure, as officers as well, the idea of a ground-floor or in a situation like islanders is the sort of thing that keeps us up at night. Size is really important. I do worry, though, that it feels like there, maybe you can be clear, it feels like another thing that's been put on us from above that we're not then being given the money to actually deal with. Do we ha what's it looking like in terms of funding to actually do you know to our power standards that we're doing this stuff properly
while it's looking like with.
a combination of all the things you've got to pay for at the moment, so we have to pay per unit for the Housing Ombudsman, for the social housing regulator, we have to pay with the be yes', that's the building safety regulator, so we have to pay you to present them with building safety cases and then any further work they do on those costs. So we were looking at probably quarter of a million pounds for all those things and at the moment we've had new burdens funding of a few thousand to carry out the satisfaction survey which we we did anyway, so we already had some money set aside for that, but it does mean that there's this issue
the there's a huge outgoing there to pay to pay for all this regulation for Zika across a range of regulators, and we are currently in all the consultations we do, we say about, we know, we were in favour of these things, but you need new burdens funding to cover it so we're always making that point but yeah there hasn't been much
Geoff, thank thank you, but I and I imagine, though we're not unique, there must be, I imagine, all councillors councils or find themselves in a similar situation yeah, it's it's a shame it feels like we're doing really well and it's being been stretched from England, Finland and Fine which is worrying.
and just what I would say sorry for that, that is.
we're always lobbying through London Councils and also art, which is the association for retained council housing, which we, we, the Cabinet Member chairs, and that that's a national group,
square.
thank you Chairman, of course this is very much welcomed, I think, on both sides in in indeed I'm trying to look at the how it's going to be managed, for instance as Southern Area Team you will have the
manager and the deputy, then you have the four or five people underneath who manage the estate officers, sorry, could I ask that people bring their mikes closer to the?
Estate officers, and then the estate officer manages the estate.
and then it will knock on the door, we've got mould, and then they will then report to the mode officer, look, they've got mould and then then then the mould officer will go and have a look at that property.
and find it's medical this that and the other who actually is going to do the quality assurance and who I know you're going to have an administrator, but where would the administrators sit and how would you be able to do K P eyes so that you're actually on on on the on the bottom on the whatever?
so that the process we set up that when we say something Motorola team, we set up a dedicated e-mail address for that team and send it out.
yes and send it out to residents and said If you have mould in your property, please e-mail this address, there's also a dedicated phone number for the modern mobile team, so a large number of requests go direct to that team so that they can then attend as soon as possible to remove the mould. Obviously, residents do still speak to their estate manager and two other officers within the area teams about mould in their property and in those situations again they would pass it direct to the mode of modern rival team to try to go out as soon as possible and remove that bold.
once that mould has been removed and they take on it before and after photographs that automatically generates an inspection request for the estate manager to go out, who's had lots of training on dealing with damp and mould issues, they will then inspect and give that advice that I referred to earlier to the resident on what they can do to help it Ferrante returning but also look at what measures need to be put in place to assist the restaurant when that's repairs to the heating or increasing the ventilation to the property and we can run reports on the number of mould and rubel removal requests that have come in and the response time for those.
and also we can look at what repairs what inspections were undertaken subsequently, and what repairs were re subsequently, and that's really probably up to me to oversee, but also the managers within each of the Area, Housing teams to try to look at, so there's a there's a thorough post inspection regime that kind of backs that are,
but how ultimately does the quality assurance in our ward at what will be in in in place, so they don't get complaints at the end of the day?
do that so that I think the ultimate quality insurance is is the new. Tony Michael, please, or Councillor. The gross errors or the ultimate quality insurance, is him as a mixture of Tom and my section, really so, the policy team does some of that quality assurance already on some of the key performance indicators, so we'll look at the data analyse it, make sure we think it's accurate and will have an idea of the kind of numbers we're expecting. So when you're running a report, you know that you'll get in the right sort of numbers out, so we'll be part of that quality assurance together to make sure there's some. There's some oversight of those figures because you might you what you want to be. The most important thing is going out and doing the work, but also you've got to have the data chap behind that to show what you're doing and how you'll meet annual target times, so we'll work together to make sure we've got that
Councillor Downes.
some residents I speak to see that you know the damp and mould it it recurs, and obviously I always say we just reported this team, there's a great system in place.
and you know, I think privately, but they're talked about previously and maybe COVID when Les things happened, you know it's so I'm wondering what could be done to.
you know improve the app or increase the uptake rate, make people safe right, realise that we are serious about her, but you know also, it's worth it, so when he talks about before and after photos, he now wonders whether to have that or to have some sites resident satisfaction piece in the magazine or,
I don't know what you think yeah, I mean a lot of the work we've done over the past year has been about promoting that new service and also making sure that residents report mould to us as soon as possible because the earlier we hear about it, the quicker we can go out there, it then doesn't really become much of a house or a health hazard for them because we're removing it as quick as possible and we're then doing that follow up to stop it from coming back, so hopefully the cases you're referring to where it keeps coming back into people's homes
we're helping prevent that from happening, and you know there's always going to be the odd occasion where, particularly in houses that are overcrowded, where you know it does come back, but the important thing in those situations is that they have faith in reporting to us immediately rather than to disrepair, solicitor, for example, and we then get out and we sort out for them and again that's that's worked well with the remote and Rubial officers that we have in place, you know it's there's been a service that's really been well received by residents. I know the Cabinet Member for Housing has promoted the service for for and or on social media video and that that's helped but,
you know by expanding the service, we're what we're gonna make them attend quicker, and I think that will increase residents' faith in us and our ability to deal with that problem.
thank you off, they are no other questions, can we receive this papers for information?
thank you.

8 Update on Green Agenda (Paper No. 24-08)

but moving on to Item number 8, which is the update on the green agenda paper 24 0 8, and that's Ms Wilman again please.
hi, so I was only going to give a short introduction to this paper, because this is really updating on the work that we're doing it really around retrofitting our existing stock, so obviously.
Jo Richardson gave a bit of an update around passive house on new builds, so this is more about what we're doing or where we've got existing stock, so it also covers things like funding. So first of all I wanted to cover just to give you an idea of the stock profile. SoF figure 1 is a graph and then there's a table underneath that, so just after paragraph 6, there's a graph showing our APC ratings across our, so this is across our tenanted stock, so we've got we've got a system called parity which, where you can enter the IPC ratings, you've got, and also various bits of information about your stock, so where it's got the right information, it can clone PCs across to start to give you an idea of your average ipc's across the board. We don't have them for leasehold properties because it's not a requirement for us to have those from leasehold properties, but obviously where we've got leaseholders in the block, and we've got enough tenanted information will will climb that to give the idea of an average GPC for the block, but really an ipc's for an individual property. So you can see from that graph. They're actually wearing quite a good position where the bulk of our properties are in the C and D bracket. There aren't that many in F and G and just table 1,
a bit complicated, but it just shows you, we've also done a lot of work around our data, so it's not that we've suddenly got a thousand extra properties, it's that we've got the data in for those extra properties and you can see with those numbers really that has improved the B and C categories and is still very low numbers in F and G.
so then I'll go on to government funding streams, so unfortunately we were unsuccessful with the last round of social housing decarbonisation fund and some of that is in relation to our stock profile, so both the fact that we've got quite high ABCs across the stock and also a high percentage of leaseholders, so there's quite a lot of there's quite strict criteria around funding bids and that's got to be that you've only got quite a low percentage of leaseholders that you've got.
PPCs generally of F and G, and where you have got decencies, it's only. It can only be a fairly small percentage and also within those beds. You've got to complete any works within a two year window which, unless you've got those works programmed in a 2 year window, is very tight to do so. Those those funding streams are often quite difficult for us to bid for and we did make a bid for doing works to ad hoc properties, so the void properties as and when they came up, and we weren't successful with that, but we are still pursuing that work because we'd already bid in the capital programme for that money.
we are also looking at ECO funding, which is energy company obligation, and members might remember that under ECO 3 we were successful in doing cavity wall insulation in those blocks that had been missed in in the previous roundabout about, I think about 10 years ago now, so ECO for again is a bit more restrictive, but we're working with Ovo energy around ECO and where we've got a provision, a provisional number of properties, around 100 properties where we've identified that they are potentially suitable for upgrades under that funding that number may change depending on you know, consultation with residents and who wants we're doing and going and looking doing more intensive looks at those properties, but that's where we were up to with that I won't say too much about the capital programme because there's also a report on Major the major works restructure, which lie which leads into some of this green work about building extra capacity for that work.
we've got some new technologies that we're trialling, we've got an air source heat pump coming at Homeleigh Court so that's a sheltered scheme, so it's 100% tenanted, so that's made it easier for new to do works, that's an improvement, so that's happening we've also got alternative heating technology, so that's infrared technology that we've put in a pilot of a couple of properties in a block that's electric heating only, and the idea of that is,
it, it almost goes on like a sort of plaster on the ceiling or on the walls, and then it heats the objects and the person in the room rather than just teaching the room, and it's a more efficient way of heating and but at the moment we've got monitors in a property that we're doing and we're waiting for a winter season before we can see what the results of that are and and then what our next steps would be in relation to that.
we're also, I think I keep saying we're doing it because we are always doing it, but we're recruiting and trying to recruit a second energy management officer, and that will just give us a bit more capacity to look at new technologies also think maybe a bit differently about how we engage with residents and sometimes how we engage with leaseholders, because obviously, where you're talking about green initiatives and improvements, they're not something that you can recharge in the lease, and they're also not something that you can insist on completing the work. So I think we need a bit of capacity to work with residents, about how we can maybe collectively bid for money and how we can persuade people or work with people to say whether we think that different technologies have benefit. But we've not started that work yeah, but that's what I envisage. A new role would would be able to provide some capacity on, and also I think it's important not to forget some of the work that we're doing that isn't on our buildings, but it's on the communal, grassed areas on our estates, so so things like
no murmur and habitat for wildlife because I think that's an issue, that's an important part, a lot of it's about retrofit, but also you've got to think about you, you communal, grassed areas, and what you can do there so yeah, so just for any questions really I ended up did I did talk for quite a long time sorry,
thank you, Ms woman, Councillor Kelly, and obviously a lot of the problems that you've alluded to, particularly with funding and leaseholders and leasehold penetration in Wandsworth, a sort of common to many borrowers. Are there any other sort of solutions elsewhere in the country or the other councils are using or looking at that, we might be able to learn from one and kind of him improve our best practice or we'll take ideas in terms of how to fund so these schemes. I think the problem is, it's not common to other boroughs, it's we've got a particular problem with a high number of leaseholders, but Councillor
just to say, we did discuss with Westminster because Westminster have got a similar stock profile and really we base that social housing decarbonisation fund on what they're done, where they'd looked at doing odd properties here and there, so not to say we'll do a block, but when a property becomes vacant we'll do those works and that's
that's what we based that bid on, but I think because they'd done it in an earlier round on the round that we were looking at, they were looking at wholesale major works, which we weren't really in a position to do, but we are, you know, go into things like the housing conference and London Councils we sit on retrofit task groups, so we're always sharing information about different things, but you know we have got quite a unique stock profile
can I just add that the last week the to the Executive was contacted by a specialist consultant who wanted to know why we hadn't been able to utilise the funding, as some other authorities had so the senior officer here, Sharon Leckey spent quite a long time explaining for probably the 10th time the unique nature of our stock in terms of high-rise,
in terms of the highest number of leaseholders in London and second or third highest in the country.
just to explain that none of the funding streams have worked for us and we keep labouring that point.
the issue is, I suppose, the only way they will work for us as if, if the government prepared to fund leaseholders contributions, and that would be a significant amount of money and at the moment that hasn't been something that they have agreed to do, but we are pushing this every time because we've got great ambition and it's hugely frustrated by the difficulties in accessing funding to do some other stuff that we know we need to do in fabric first, because if we can get the buildings sorted out, everything else follows on in terms of your types of energy that you can move to, so it's a really massive point
I think that there hasn't been any sort of work done, or there is no possibility of credible ways profit sharing in the future, so obviously when ink, when there's a reduction in costs in the future, potentially rather than passing on those to leaseholders, actually they go to the person who has funded the the changes in the first place I don't know if that's possible under the leases though.
it's a nice idea, I, I think the way that local authority leases are structured is that there is no sinking fund, there's no kind of repatriation of funds, you charge the leaseholder at the time of the work or thereafter and if you'd pick the tower block and we've got more tower blocks than anybody else pretty much certainly in London and in almost all parts of the country other than Birmingham and Glasgow. If you if you've got a tower block, the only thing you can do to make it genuinely thermally efficient is you have to cover in some indicates a warp that isn't obviously flammable, so you cover in some of the keeps you warm. That kind of planning system now is working out somewhere between 60 to 80,000 pounds per unit. Half of our units are leasehold, so in a single tower block it's a multimillion pound deficit that we can't plug, and the idea of charging leaseholders for that would would simply not be realistic or reasonable and we haven't got anywhere else to go for the money, so we're stuck, but we keep pointing out that we're stuck, and maybe Sharon Lickey at some point will come back with good news. I don't know but I hope so
previous McGowan Gillian Sharon.
I just wanted to add, that's not quite the same, but we are looking at at technologies around PV panels where you can you can put those on Annex B. You use it to generate electricity for the communal parts of the block, the light and the lifts, but anything that's leftover can then go to residents and we're at very early stages that that is a very expensive technology at the moment, but in theory that would that would go into some of those areas, and I think when I've got that new post in there's something we're gonna have to consider because we have got knocked the High Rise are very complicated, but we've got a lot of medium buys, high percentages of leaseholders, and I think it's you know, we're going to have to eventually trial something and say how how can we, how can we do this for leaseholders and what you want to pick, as it is a block where you've got people who are quite positive about it and then you can work together.
Councillor Mr. Byrne.
I have one and a supplementary a long time ago.
we were looking at refuse and boilers and utilising the refuse within a council estate to generate electricity, and it was in Putney, and at that that's my first.
and I think Mr. Bradley wants to speak well, although I think Mr. Stewart, and I probably are the only two might might remember, a thing which I think was called pyrolysis there are a few councillors may remember, which was we were reliably informed, a proven technology that was used on submarines to dispose of waste and generate energy.
but it never really proved to be adaptable in terms of the pilots that we ran in the tower blocks, that we that we kind of trialled it, there were a kind of a range of issues, I think are well cat litter, what happens if yeah, if you put the wrong stuff down it, could it be flammable so so it was looked at.
and it was kind of trial, but it never really got out of the starting blocks, sadly, so it hasn't come back against him, I suspect it probably wasn't the right form of of technology for our housing estates, as I said in a supplementary, is the fact that when you read with the electricity and the heat warming the person I mean that's a bit worrying really,
because?
I don't know how you can judge that.
I do I don't think it warms them so much that they require suncream in house, but I'll let them in respond.
I did look this up and it's it's passing by radiation, so it's why the son son operates doesn't heat up the air that it passes through it, heats up the individual is completely safe, is no different from a coal fire.
so really, if anybody had a medical condition or radiation because of whatever?
anyway, I take your answer.
term heat other objects in the room as well, so that improves the damp and mould situation because the ceiling in the floor is being.
heated.
yeah, so I think it will be interesting when we've done a whole winter season, where we can look at the information because we've got sensors in those properties to look at all these areas and then we'll be better informed about how, how and where we might use that technology in the future.
but a very exciting technology from if we can get it out to as much as well.
property is possible, OK any more questions, please.
o s Councillor Dozier.
this is the thinking it would be yeah be really great to hear back about that and then also the possibility of using that in other council buildings such as the Town Hall, rural schools.
we have questions, sorry, I think that was a yeah yeah.

9 Major Works Staffing (Paper No. 24-09)

OK because we received that as information yeah, OK so moving onto the major work staffing item number 9, which is I'll thank you, Ms Warren, which is paid for 24 0 9.
and that looks remarkably like Ms Leckie.
good evening, everyone, yes, I'm sure Nicky, I'm the head of technical services and sustainability.
this report sets out the additional staffing requirements needed within the section to improve the services delivered to by the major works support services and leasehold and procurement teams, and that, through the enhancement to the staffing structure.
these additional posts will assist the Department in achieving the Wandsworth environmental and sustainability strategy targets, the energy efficiency measures to the Council's housing stock are included in the capital works programme, which is funded through the HRA.
the amount allocated to capital works in 23 24 was 35 million pounds but, as will be seen in the paper I am coming to this a meeting later, this year's bid is for 45 million pounds now the reason for this is that the stock condition survey has indicated that we need to make greater level of investment into the housing stock and in addition, as as K Willem Mann has just said to you, the government funding for retrofit measures is not really applicable to to our stock and the nature of the type of them.
IPC, levels that we have.
if you look at paragraph 8, there's information regarding the specific type of retrofit work, we expect to carry out with this additional HRA funding, paragraph 9 sets out the current staffing structure within the major works section, this team managers all of the major works to the residential stock apart from the mechanical and electrical, so it doesn't do like the lifts or rewires anything like that.
paragraph 10 identifies a subsection within the major works team which, with the minor works team and they deal with all the acquired it's two officers, they deal with all the acquired properties, which is 866 properties.
they draw the external decorations and window renewals, now we're only having two members of staff in that team, the current programme of works is that they will only be done approximately every 30 years, which is more than double what happens with the properties on our estates.
paragraph 11 details the consultation T consultation team and they deal with all of the statutory leasehold consultation, which we have to do prior to commencing any major works to give an indication of the level of their workload, this year Babes issued over 7,000 notices of intention and 1,700 section 20 notices.
all of those have to be individually calculated and they then have to deal with all of the resulting queries that come from the service of those.
obviously, the increased workload is is going to require increased resources, so in paragraphs 13 to 17.
there's a breakdown of the stuff that we need and how they're going to be deployed.
in the minor works team that I mentioned just before, we're going to create two new posts, and with those they're not only going to be dealing with the worse the acquired properties.
but we're also going to be asking them to deal with the retrofit works to the void properties, so those are the works again, which Kate mentioned earlier, where we have a void property with an APC, so I just wanna that's an energy performance certificate APC, of below C. We will be carrying out retrofit works in there to bring the IPC levels up and then we can also trial measures that we can then perhaps extend across the rest of the housing stock so things like that NextGen wonderful electric wallpaper heating and that that we were just talking about.
then we are going to have one, we hope, to have one additional project controller and one additional consultation officer, they'll be working on the increased number of schemes that we hope to be carrying out now that we would have extra staff, and also we are going to need some additional admin support which paragraph 15 relates to that we currently have one admin officer in the team providing support to the entire major works team out with the new legislation about having to have all of our information accessible and available.
we, the it just, can't be done with one person, so what we're proposing to do is bring in another admin officer and redesignate one of the existing post as a senior how we've managed so far that we've been just employing temps on on a regular basis, so it it's just regularising that position.
and then for paragraph 16 that relates to an increase in hours for the principal programme officer, she is currently part time and we're just going to convert the post to a full-time post, because she's actually doing additional overtime hours as I'm working full-time anyway, so it just recognises that position as well.
and then paragraphs 17 refers to an amalgamation of two posts we had previously the business services, business transformation and support services manager, who left last year, and that post has been carried out by the head of programming, leasehold and procurement, so we're intending to amalgamate those two posts into one.
the financial implications are set out in paragraph 18, the exert additional resources will cost an extra 290,000 pounds per year, of which 113,000 pounds should be recovered by retort recharges to leaseholders on the major works that were carrying out, these additional costs are reflected in the paper coming later, 24 12 elsewhere in the agenda, so does anybody have questions for me, thank you, Ms Leckie, anyone with questions,
Councillor given due.
thank you Chair, I missed lucky.
it was slightly confused by this paper really because I read essentially as a major works.
enhancement of major works team paper, and yet the first sentence in the summary box says it's all about achieving our West targets, in essence, West is a relatively minor point of our major work programme.
and I just couldn't work out what was the balance between our most major works and how much of it was West related major works.
I believe the sense that we are going to do it this way, the west is always going to be a problem in a sense West is supposed to be woven so seamlessly into our work that it shouldn't necessarily need to be spelled out separately, that's all.
no, possibly or possibly it's not clear, so sorry if it isn't, it's it's like a combination, so the major works, when we all of our the West targets our green agenda, the energy efficiency stuff, that is all part of our major works, so because we don't get that additional funding, everything has to be done as part of the capital programme, so we have to increase the major works we are doing anyway and the west of it. It feeds into that. So by doing you know, by putting on a new roof by putting in new windows, we will be working towards the west targets, so we'll be decarbonising. It should be reducing the heat demand, but we will also be doing more major works, because our stock is getting older and it needs more done too. It should be pursued in essence,
in the Building Regulations, changed building control, regulations changed and the specification on the density are on the thickness of the roof had to change, then every time we did a new roof we would have to have a ticket roof, and we wouldn't want to have a separate line in the bud major works budget saying it's all to do with the building regs 48,
budget, I mean, in a sense, these things are part of our maintenance of our stock, time has changed, requirements, change things, move on, they don't have to be spelt out as or just because it's because I think there is a in the sense of presentation risk.
it's all to do with golf counsels 0 target, I'm going to have to pay more well, no 0 target shouldn't become a more payment, it just gives you a better service end of.
yeah, I mean, I think you're right in the in the broad text that we that we kind of mainstream the carbon reduction works, I also think it is such a significant issue, though, both nationally and locally, that every council will want to be able to demonstrate that they are doing it and I think the point here is we are having to do more of it and that's what the extra staffing resources for really
get the point if there was a money, a fine or a money stream that we were tapping into, but that's not what's happening here.
and if we are going to measure each work separately as to to achieve our West target, which is just not happening Aire Valley, because our west strategy is going to be measured entirely elsewhere and comprehensively across the whole Council, it's just just there was a minor point really frankly,
I think I think it needs to be noted, though, that yeah, a huge percentage of the Council's carbon emissions, does come from residential buildings, and so it, as I said it, they they are they fit together, they it's possible that when you said about you know if regulations change we have to put on a new roof they're not retrospective so yeah the government may change the building regulations and say you now have to have much thicker, but we would only have to change that insulation when we got to the stage where we were putting a new roof on anyway.
OK any more questions.
OK, so we've got.
I nb to a vote on the here, so are you happy for both of them, everyone's happy?
it was carried.
thank you so, moving on to Item 10, which is paper 24 10 surprisingly.

10 Joint Fees and Charges Review (Paper No.24-10)

and this is the joint fees and charges review so.
is Mr Davis going to introduce it or are we gonna go straight into it?
we've agreed OK.
yeah

11 Heating and Hot Water Charges (Paper No.24-11)

we check, we changed our mind, okay, so you OK to carry out fine OK, so we're moving on to Item number 11, which is paper about heating and hot water charges, so.
again.
you want to Uruguay.
everyone's OK, sorry, sorry, can I check that there was just one question, which is about how does the energy cap fit into these considerations?
there were 1900 or something isn't it?
I think when we looked at this previously, the cap is so much higher than our our own charges that it did, it wasn't applicable.
maybe you can let me know what the current gap is and have expecting.
I I thought I might be wrong, but we will confirm it that basically the energy cap only are applied to individual customers, it didn't apply on communal systems that which is one of the nuances of of that particular issue, yeah yeah, I would I'll confirm that to you but that's my understanding yeah yeah,
OK, thank you so okay, to carry this for yeah, fine, OK, so item number 12, which is the HR budget, setting.

12 HRA Budget Setting (including Rent Setting) (Paper No.24-12)

Mr Davis, good evening management Davies, on the Finance controller for Housing and Regeneration.
the this report is presented each year as part of the Council's duty to set budgets for its housing stock for the coming year and to ensure that the proposed level of expenditure remains affordable. The report first recommends new capital spend of 126 million as set out in paragraph 8, combined with the existing capital programme approved in November. The total capital investment over this, and the next three years now stands at 715 million paragraphs 30 to 31, covers how these capital expenditure is likely to be funded. The report then goes on to look at planned revenue expenditure as reported previously. There are a number of emerging financial pressures within the HRA, specifically those relating to voids and the cost of returning void properties to use and the general cost pressures across repairs, including fire safety related works for which additional budget has been previously approved
with regards to proposals for income, including that from tenants' rent. The report confirms that, in accordance with the rent standard, the Council is permitted to increase rents by CPI plus 1%, which equates to 7.7% and, in view of the cost pressures the HRA faces and to ensure the long-term viability of the business plan, recommends that rents are increased by 7.7% from April 2024, the report then details from paragraph 98 the various service charges that tenants may be charged. Paragraph 1 0 9 onwards proposes a non dwelling charges such as garages and store shares are also increased by an average of 6.7%, in line with the Council's general charging policy. Finally, the report's inclusion is at a 7.7% rent increased is now necessary and that, based on the estimates for income and the total spend, plans on the Council's housing stock in the HRA is affordable over the short and longer term.
thank you, I'll take any questions, please any questions, Councillor Kelly.
I think overall what really concerns me about this because obviously 7.7% is a huge increase in its coming on the back of last year, 7.8% I think it was, and this will genuinely have a real effect on people's budgets and we've already seen that arrears are or are increasing at it's gonna put huge financial pressure on people and what I don't get any sense of from this paper and I think it's alluded to in paragraph you'll find it now 18 I think it is
maybe not.
but I don't get any sense from this paper that there has been any sort of attempt to look at all of the other myriad elements that go to make up the HRA account all of the different costs, all of the different elements.
or and you've kind of just taken yeah, the maximum the government will allow you to charge and sort of automatically put on to residents, so I'd really like to know some of the detail, and I and I I'm guessing that you wouldn't you know, because that that wouldn't be a thoughtful thing today, so I'd just I guess would ask for some of the detail in terms of maybe savings programmes that have been looked at efficiencies and consideration about. I don't know flexing the way that you're borrowing the money, the debt, to reduce the interest, just anything that could be done to to try and improve the position from 7.7% for some of our most vulnerable residents, and I think it is referred to. I'll find a paragraph where it's referred to it, but you know it's very clear that the content of the it's paragraph 81 actually
the content of the HRA consists of lots of different things and it talks about a sustained reduction income may put the longer-term viability of the HRA at risk, which I understand that the renters it is an important stream, unless compensated through matching efficiency savings, so I guess I'd I'd love to know what what we've done, what we've considered and rejected in terms of efficiency savings in other areas.
some councils are facing this problem at the moment and all of them have put up their rents by 7.7%, but I mean I certainly wouldn't want to do things just because other people are doing the Mino you want to have a thoughtful position you want to really take a step back and think actually do I need to be putting this cost on some of our most vulnerable residents are there other things that we could do are there are other choices that we could make. Politics is all about choices.
a very good point I mean, I think we don't we need, we need to focus on the context of what's happened really, because Wandsworth was a leading light in the move away from the national subsidy system to a self-financing deal.
on the basis that Wandsworth rents were being taken off it in a national subsidy system and passed round to other authorities, we felt we could manage our own housing better by working with the rent that we were due to receive and and investigate in our stock and the model that we'd already had was kind of based on, that government looked at it and they said, Do you know this could work? So I think we were quite instrumentally moving to a self-financing agreement. Now that agreement had a basis of how we would be able to charge rents to enable us just to maintain our stock to current standards. Nothing fancy, nothing flash nothing in excess of what we'd would need in order to buy materials and labour to maintain our housing stock. What happened since that time, so agreements were signed, we took on a huge amount of debt to buy ourselves out of the national subsidy system that we were paying off
and agreements were signed on the basis that we would be able to draw rent at a certain level, we've had four years of rent reduction imposed on us centrally subsequent to that agreement, we've had local agreements to reduce rent below the level that we were entitled to charge and we've had rent caps on a very rough estimate and this is an incredible number and you might challenge me on it but Mr Davis's in the room and he gave it to me.
if you projected the impact of that over 30 years, that's taken about just under 1 billion pounds out of the housing revenue account that we should be spending on our properties just to maintain it to existing standards. That is an absolutely incredible loss of resource. If you add into that the increased regulation, the green agenda, fire safety and were when Ms Wilman mentioned earlier, the costs of the ombudsman and the housing regulator is about 250 grand a year just that, just for the privilege of having those people regulate us well, but you didn't mention is we've had to set up a compliance teams, inspection teams, all new burdens, no new funding on top of the loss of a billion pounds. I think in that context it would explain why we have no alternative. We can barely do what we need to do, and if you start accepting that, we don't charge the rents that enabled us to maintain our stock. We will have disrepair. Our stock will fall into misuse our estates will be worse, we won't have the resources to do the basics, and that, I think, is the compelling argument, which is why every social landlord that I'm aware of it's not it's not a question of
well, you know it's nice to have. It is absolutely essential, following the reductions in income, that all local authorities have suffered, that we that we go for this figure and that valleys the context that we mustn't lose sight of. Can I come back I? I completely understand that and the the the history of the position, but ultimately we are where we are, and we are that you know all of that money goes into one pot, it's an HR account, so they're spending decisions, the decision to borrow several hundred million pounds off of money, which we will have to pay interest on every single year, starting, I think, next year and then carrying on it. It's gonna be tens of millions of pounds a year of interest
so or again, it doesn't really change the position of Wu, we are where we are, and we are making decisions about who pays for this and who pays for all these, the these repairs and the changes, and we're making the decision that we're gonna put 7.7% on some of the poorest residents, rather than looking for perhaps some efficiency savings or or and perhaps we're doing both perhaps flicking provisions savings as well, I would hope that we are, but it would be interesting to have in this paper and to have detailed to this committee all of the efforts that we're going to to try and save as much money as possible so that we don't have to charge residents 7.7%
it is good Parliament, you know, you'll recall, we have a budget review process every year when we look at every line of every budget to try and see if it can be squeezed or improved, or we can get more out of it. I mean, I think our approach to the new burdens has been kind of typical to the culture that has evolved, that we are taking small, additional staff groups where we have to and if you compare it to most other large admin borrowers. Our teams around compliance and inspection are tiny in comparison and around fire safety. So I think we're very careful custodians of the housing revenue account. We take it very seriously, but if you think of the seven and a half per cent in the context of money that we don't have, that, we needed that was agreed, that we needed by the government to adjust to maintain our stock. It's a tiny fraction, we will never get close to the money that we have lost, or are we shouldn't lose sight of that the biggest cost to the HRA will always be staff, so what the only way, I can say, substantial amounts will be to take staff out of doing jobs like housing management, where it's arguable, we've just put some resources back in because we needed them, so I think all to find efficiencies with new technology. I know there must be ways of streamlining system streamline and if I can get a I to do state management, I'll tell you what I I will do it because I'm struggling to get humans to do it at the moment to be fair as well. We are, we are looking at,
systems that we, we can try and do that, and the thing is that because we got such a large amount of stock, it's expensive to do that, you know, we used to go, pull it in a H H household.
I think also that 50% of tenants that will not pay the rise because they they receive ha and you say so someone pay that yeah, they have the other 50%, will pay a hell of a lot less than the extortionate prices in the private rented sector at the moment Councillor India, I'm very interested to listen to Councillors Durkan Mr alias.
so the contribution which I'd say Re, if I got a time when I've got a lack of sleep at night and need to do something, I read previous reports and see his contribution. Previous discussions on this item. I suspect the the the the texts would not have been substantially different. The argument has not changed in terms of where we are where we want to be, and why the rent level is what it is. I think he could've said that 10 years ago, five years ago, six years ago, I don't think there's much changing at what is actually in essence, lacking in this paper is exactly what Councillor Kelly has put her or her finger on, which is that, yes, the government has asked us to put it up and yes, they have forced us to do it. And yes, we will have to, because there are new burdens, as well as our hope for improved services, but how we tried other ways of ameliorating that burden, and that's not in this paper, and I think that's all that Councillor Kelly was in effect, asking paragraph 81 very neatly says in a very few lines,
this is how we do it, and if we didn't do it this way we would have to find savings, but it doesn't then go on to say these are the savings we looked at or not looked at or we have a programme of looking at it and don't have to spell out every nuance of it but injustice that there isn't any any any great detail that's my my beef about about the paper, otherwise I think the arguments are frankly familiar.
yeah, I was just going to say that I think that if you look at the investments that we've made, and if you look at the where the money that we're spending, I think it is quite transparent that we're doing it on things that are designed to improve the lives of our tenants and our leaseholders.
the one we can all argue about is the thousand homes programme right, so we can have the argument about the thousand homes programme. Should we not build new council housing and instead use that to be the only council in the country that goes against what the government is suggesting, that we do in order to maintain healthy stock, and that is a difficult moral and political question that we have wrestled as a council and we're making the decision that we think we can defend publicly and we can. We can have that discussion, but I think it's unfair O'Brien and his team to say there are these inefficiencies that he's hiding, that we could get to when actually we've been quite clear that we've invested in estate managers
the elevator himself thousand homes where government, I'm happy to have that discussion, but that is the big spending ticket that we think is an incredibly important area of, and one that you yourselves were going to debt finance to to pay for just a lower number of social homes right, so not to the same extent and just to be crystal clear, I wasn't really having a pop at Mr Ali and his team, I was having a pop at the decision to borrow hundreds of millions of pounds and charge interest to the HRA. Account said that that was really where I was going, but I didn't want to have that sort of media familiar or unfamiliar didn't lie. I'm glad you clarified that eating well in the second half of our staff
okay, Molly?
thank you, can I put a question to Mr Davis on paragraph 88, which we had a different presentation, otherwise I would have seen and picked this one up.
is it right that a five bedroom is playing just getting 1.66% rental increase as against somebody would be in on a bedsit does getting 7.6 5 am I reading that right?
paragraph 88 on page 1 or 7. Thank you for the question. Yes, you are only arrived home due to Wandsworth historic reinserting policies, we have a wider array of rents and then overlay that, with the fact that, as part of the rent standard, there are what they can ask rent caps, so rents can't go up above a certain level. You'll find that the rents in a lot of the larger properties are capped at the higher level. Therefore, they only get marginal increases compared to those at the lower level, and that's evidenced by that table
and I, I think it's worth addressing that, the reason why that is the case is because for many, many years he raised hence above the recommendations, and so we could have that.
I
this is the hardest political decision that we make every year.
Ms Price in do it now, I'm talking to the value officer I was looking at Councillor Carter didn't worry.
yeah yeah.
because at some point they're going to have to come in, but it's because of historic imbalances, but I mean that fundamentally one.
the inflationary pressure because you go, you've got to remember that last year, with the government cap, at 7%, because inflation was much above 6.7 in September we we lost millions over the 10 year business plan. I think it was something Mark, you were saying it was 47 million pounds over 10 years from the cap last year, so we are constantly trying to make up lost resource in an in an environment in which I think it's absolutely right in the papers in this in this document are all about social landlords having to get
they're act together because we know in some places in the country
social landlords.
and we can argue about why, but have not been delivering for their residents and we never want to be in a situation where Wandsworth once it has a historically good record when it comes to ombudsman, claims that it comes molten down, but we want to maintain that standard and the risk is that if we continue to,
you know.
be unrealistic with managing the books, you know we are a Labour administration that wants to be fiscally responsible and make sure that this Council is in a healthy financial position.
coming to the nation saying but, Councillor Kelly, sorry, I'll I'll I'll be quick J just on one other point on arrears. I am genuinely concerned about the arrears position. It doesn't look good, I think this is only going to make it much much worse and you can have as many sort of payment plans and things as you like in train, but if they can't pay they can't pay, and it's gonna be a problem for us, and I I just I guess I want to get some reassurance for from the the finance team in terms of what what we're doing to sort of try and alleviate it or provision against it, and whether we're sort of prepared for it because I think it's just going to get worse and worse
I mean in terms of the sort of financial aspects of the the business plan.
within the HRA. At the end of each year, we look at the arrears position and calculate a prudent provision against that arrears now, based on the best part of 12 million that was outstanding at the end of 22 23. We have an 8 million pound provision against that now, obviously in arrears have increased throughout the year and we have a significant budget in the HRA to 2 to allow a provision to be set aside within the accounts. Now, notwithstanding that, there is still money owed to the Council and at some point we've got to try and collect it now, yeah we, we've had many times before about all the work, the financial inclusion team do and the tendencies to support, but yeah, the the the Council's policies is around tenancy sustainment. So yeah, I mean all we can do is try to engage with residents trying to enter into payment plans and whilst it will take a long time to collect money because it will be small amounts per week because it has to be affordable for the tenants
the that that's really all we can do at the moment is to just try and collect this money over a or a very stretched period.
thank you very much, can I just say a quick follow-up, can I just confirm that there the policy of tenancy sustainment hasn't changed, has it over many years, it was, it was the same policy that was in place when we were in administration.
proposal. Are we evicting less now than because there was a comment that you made at the B or F, and I didn't say at the time, because it wasn't a or inappropriate forum, but I was slightly concerned that the implication was that somehow now we are being kinder and more generous, and my understanding is that we rarely if ever have evicted people for non-payment of, so I asked this of that. The figure has roughly fallen from about 50 a year to about 10 a year now, so that seems like a change in direction, but I I come
I don't want to I, I can't put it down to the election date, basically, but I think that we are, we're certainly seeing as an institution and as an organisation, the number of people evicted for non-payment historically is is is falling, so that's that's what I meant.
I, I think, also just in a cost of living crisis, it has become a major priority of the Authority to try and identify families who are struggling, so you have the lift platform, which is the low income family tracker which is kind of data-driven and I think we have become better at identifying households who are struggling and and and we have tried to move more proactively to get payment plans in place for them in a way that maybe we weren't as good at previously, but clearly the pressure is on rent arrears increasing at the moment and that is something that everyone is mindful of.
all questions Councillor of India thanks chaps, I'm looking at Mr Davis paragraphs 62 in the table in it.
there is a concern that.
the 28% will not on any form of housing benefit and support are the ones who will bear the burden of the increase and are often within that cohort equal, who are.
just missing all sorts of red lines that might be drawn in terms of triggering support.
what sort of help proactive help is the Department geared to providing them, and the second limb of that that?
of the people in arrears are the majority of people in arrears within that cohort, or are there in the in the cohort who are receipt of part support, not full support.
the only a second questionnaire, Councillor I I can't answer that with any confidence but by my fading would be obviously if they're on full HB they wouldn't fall into arrears so by default it would be those that are either on partial housing benefit or a noticeable benefit whatsoever. I mean you're at 28% of the the the the tenants, the the the rent accounts are not in receipt of housing benefit and for those those families those households, they will be expected to meet the full cost of of the increase.
the rent collection team will use and he's any sort of data or analysis I have on payment profiles to try and identify where people who may have escaped paid in a routine previously the then fall-off that routines, try and contact them, engage with them and just to save I need to be any sort of help with budgeting advice in terms of looking at maximising income and it may be identifying where tenants are or,
are able to claim benefits are not otherwise claiming, but also looking at, and so did the general budgeting looking outgoings as well to say if if, if they can assist with making yeah balance the equation, so to speak, so.
I mean they, the the financial inclusion team, will continue to work and do do that and then agree a payment plan if someone is getting into arrears, but I mean there's no easy answer to the yeah, though those residents will we expected sends a strong word are required to pay the increase because they're not in support of any benefit as it stands.
I may have once I've digested what you've said, I might write back to you for some details, thanks.
so.
or do you want to accept all of these recommendations, no, I I think we're only it, is it all of them that we're voting on, or is it only some of them, it's all of them I to go yeah.
I mean, I think we would ultimately make different decisions, so I think we'll be voting against the paper is the whole are simply saying okay, so if you take the paper in its entirety.
can I have hands for everyone who is in favour?
and those against.

13 Proxy Address - a new service for Housing Services (Paper No.24-13)

OK, that's great, so, moving on to the final paper paper 13, the proxy addresses, and Mr can I just get him, can I just get admitted that we thank Bianca Griffin for coming up with the idea about this and getting it implemented if you ever have people who have policy ideas, they can bring them and they will be enacted if no good so yeah
fantastic OK, well that concludes the business end of which sounds surprised my.
so thank you, thank you very, very much, thank you.