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Licensing Sub-Committee
Thursday, 6th August 2026 at 7:00pm

 
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Fantastic. Okay, well, welcome to this meeting of the Licencing Subcommittee, which is being
held as a remote meeting. It is being webcast, so please bear with us if there are any technical
issues. My name is Councillor Mitten, I'm chairing this meeting, and I will now invite everybody to
introduce themselves if we start with councillors, then officers, applicants and then representations.
So Councillor Boswell, did you want to go first?
Thank you very much, Chair. I'm Councillor Sheila Boswell and I represent Tooting Beck
Ward.
Hello, my name is Councillor Jonathan Ilef. I represent Ballam Ward and I'm a member on
this committee.
If we hand over to officers.
Aye Bishop, legal advisor to the licencing subcommittee.
After you Deborah.
Sorry, apologies. My name's Deborah Braga, I'm the licencing manager for the RSP covering all three boroughs.
Michael Flowers, Democratic Service Officer and Clerk for this meeting.
Julie Hopkins, licencing officer.
Fantastic. If we hand over to applicants, if you'd like to introduce yourself.
Thank you, I'm Sarah Louise Taylor, I'm the solicitor on behalf of the applicant and I'm joined by my client who you can see at the bottom of the screen,
and Mr Gomez's wife Tanya Kirsting, so they're the operators of the premises. Thank you.
Fantastic. And representations.
Who would you like to start then?
Councillor Cooper, you go first.
Okay, so my name is Councillor Leoni Cooper. I'm actually one of the
three councillors who represent Fersdown. I submitted a representation which was on behalf
of a number of local people who had approached me about the licencing application. I can also see
some local people on the call who live very near the premises. I think Patricia Sharp has written
to the committee to say that specifically that she would like me to represent her viewpoint,
as well as generally speaking on behalf of residents who live close to the brewery. Thank you.
I've got, um, Faith is it? Sorry, I'm just seeing your name just as Faith over there.
Would you like to introduce yourself?
Hi, is my volume on?
Yes, I can hear you.
So my name is Faith Woodruff and I'm representing my husband's centre representation, Mark Homer, we're local residents.
Fantastic. Thank you. And then we've got Debbie as well.
Hi, yes, I'm Debbie Morey and I live next door to Patsy and next door but one to Faith. So I'm a local resident and I've put in a representation.
Fantastic. I think that's everybody. So if we get moving on to items one and two on the agenda, which are apologies for absence or declarations of interest for any of the items on the agenda.
Anybody have any apologies they wanted to raise or declare any interest?
No, okay thank you. In that case we'll move to agenda item four where we'll now consider
the application for new premises licence in respect to the premises known as Brewery,
97 Moyes Road, London, SW 16 6 S J and I now invite the licencing officer to introduce the application.
Thank you, Chair. Brewery Limited have applied for a new premises licence at 97 Moiser Road,
London SW 16 6 SJ, for the sale of alcohol for consumption on and off the premises. Appendix
C of the report provides the full timings for the activities being applied for. The
application was advertised as required under the legislation with site notices at the premises
and with a newspaper advert. This resulted in the receipt of 19 valid representations from other
persons objecting and three in support. Appendix A to the report lays out the conditions arising
from the applicant's operating schedule, including those agreed with the Metropolitan Police,
the Council's Noise and Nuisance and Trading Standards team, which will become conditions
of the licence if it is granted. Appendix B to the report outlines conditions from relevant
representations. An Appendix C to the report lays out the proposed hours for the application.
Councillors, the options that are open to you tonight when deciding this new application include
granting the application as requested or modifying the conditions of the licence,
alter or omit conditions or add new or reject the whole or part of the application.
Councillors, I've laid out the brief facts of the application but I'll be happy to answer
any questions you may have. Thank you.
Fantastic. Did anybody have any questions for the licencing officer?
I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question because I haven't
been on this committee before but it's probably getting into more of the detail
and some of the suggestions for mitigating the problems of noise and everything is that there will be staff at the premises to control numbers of people outside, the back, the front, and I just was wondering how that's going to be controlled, but I understand if this isn't the right place to ask that.
No, so we'll move on next to the applicant will have some time to speak and then we as committee members will have the opportunity to ask some clarification questions on that.
Did anybody have any other questions for the licencing officer?
If not, then I will invite our applicant to speak.
I know we have,
normally we give five minutes per speakers,
both for the applicant and also those making representations,
but it has to be at equal sum of time.
I know we have three people speaking on representations,
so five minutes each.
So I'll give the applicant up to 15 minutes,
just so that is fair to address the committee. So over to you. Thank you very much chair, I
probably won't need the full 15 minutes but you give us time for questions if necessary. Thank you chair.
So you've heard from Julie Hopkins the sort of terms of the application, what's been
applied for, the hours etc. I thought it would be useful to start just by giving some background
information about one the operators but two how this application has come about because it's quite
unusual to get a scenario where you've got an operator that's already operated and then applies
for a licence after the fact. Just to give some reassurance to the committee at the outset it's
not that they've been operating illegally for any period of time they've been in this particular
premises since February and operating since then but what's happened is they've operated
in conjunction with another premises which is a coffee shop known as Hazel's and it's effectively
been a shared licence. Now over time since February to the current time that the application
was made, it's become very clear that that was not feasible on a long term basis for
lots of reasons. Hazel's do their own events, they do music events as well and that's not
part of the business model of brewery either. So just for sort of cleanliness, for ease
of use, for transparency on conditions and just to make sure if there were any enforcement
it's clear who's doing what. It became quite apparent quite quickly that it was prudent for
the operators to apply for it for their own new premises licence which is why you've got this
application before you today committee members. So in terms of the operators you've got two very
experienced operators here they operate three premises in total including the one that we
were applying for this licence for and the other two premises are located in in Beckenham now the
that we're applying for today at Moyes Road is effectively a tap room and then premises in
Beckinham are a similar setup but at one of those premises they also brew their own beer.
So you've got experienced operators, they're used to operating licenced premises.
Across those three licenced premises there have not been any substantiated noise complaints
and no complaints directly from neighbours about how they've operated and I wanted to put a little
bit of distance chair at the outset between the operation of hazels and the current operators.
because I think it's clear from the representations that there are some concerns.
It's right that we address them, we're not here today to dismiss them by any means,
and I'll come to the correspondence that we've put together and we've sent between the residents,
which I hope will give some reassurance on that.
But in terms of hazels, it's right to talk about what they do.
They are a separate sort of coffee shop outfit, but what they do do occasionally is they will have late at night events that involve music
and involve customers being there later and ultimately over time it's become apparent that at some point that has caused a disturbance to local residents unfortunately.
I'm joined by Kadu and Tanya, I'd introduce them at the outset. If there's any questions about the particular specifics of the Hazels operation versus ours, they'll be happy to answer any questions.
But essentially what we're looking for here, Chair, is a taproom, operators that brew their own beer and want to sell it.
It's quite a low -key operation, it's not sort of a high -energy nightclub vertical drinking live music establishment.
The plan is that it will be a tap room, it's exactly as it looks on the plans.
They do have an outside area both at the front and the back which I know has caused some concerns
and we've put some quite robust conditions together to ensure that they're managed as well.
So again if there are any questions about how they'll be managed,
I know Councillor Boswell's got a question about staff etc and we're happy to answer those too.
The maximum capacity, just to start with the external areas, they can accommodate both front
and back up to 80 people but we've agreed as you'll see within the conditions much less than
that and the reality is even though it could accommodate only at one time it's very unlikely
that it would do at any particular time. So again hopefully that gives you some reassurance that the
are reasonable, they're willing to work with the authorities.
EH had suggested that we agree a reduced figure
and that was agreed as well.
So this is not an application that is seeking hours
to the early hours of the morning.
It's not a nightclub operation.
It's very much a tap room.
There'll be a couple of Sonoff speakers again,
just to give some reassurance that it's not going to turn
into a nightclub type venue.
Quite low key, chilled, family friendly
is what the operators are aiming for.
In terms of the operation in this particular place, it's quite unusual that we can have, unless we do temporary event notices, a few months of operation before we come to you with a new licence application.
What I will say is, although there's concerns that have been raised within the representations and we'll address them, and rightly so,
we've not had any approach directly from residents to say that this has been a problem or indeed from environmental health to highlight that there have been issues so far.
What I suspect and what the operators suspect from looking at the representations is that where music is referenced and there's loud noise that perhaps that's been part of the events which have been conducted by Hazel so far,
which again is not within the business plan or the business model of the operators that you've got before you today.
Just turning to environmental health and also the police as well, you'll see that there's quite a robust set of conditions in the applicant's operating schedule.
So some discussions took place quite early on, both with the police and with the environmental health team.
And the operators straight away agreed a set of conditions.
What we've done, Chair, again to try and give some reassurance to the residents is,
I've sent quite a detailed email to all of the residents for which I've got email addresses for,
just to say to them, hello, I'm acting for the operators, here at the operators, here's what they plan to do.
Here are a set of conditions, firstly that we offered as part of the operating schedule for the application.
Secondly, that we've agreed with environmental health as well because the majority of the concerns that are raised within the representations relate to noise.
And then over and above that chair, I'm sure you've seen the correspondence on this, but we've also offered an additional condition that will have a direct telephone number
that's available to all residents and local businesses so that if this licence is granted and they are trading under that licence,
not only if they've got a full suite of conditions that hopefully will mitigate the noise,
but if there were to be any issue at any point, they've got a direct contact number directly to the operators of the premises as well.
Just turning back to a couple of legal pieces, unfortunately, that I have to put before you.
In terms of the guidance to the Licencing Act 2003, that gives us some guidance on what we should look for in terms of both evidence but also what we would expect to see from the responsible...
We don't have the responsible authorities sitting in the room today opposing the application.
I would hope that that would give the committee members some reassurance that the responsible
authorities who are our experts that we would look to, to tell us if this would be a problem,
are confident that the conditions that we've agreed are sufficient and that they don't
need to maintain their representations. We've also got to look at paragraph 1 .17, so conditions
should be tailored and it's essential to avoid the imposition of disproportionate and overly burdensome conditions on premises where there is no need.
And ultimately we've got to look at the evidence. So I'll address the representations in a moment and the conditions that we've put forward
but ultimately we've got to look at the fact that we don't have any substantiated complaints that have come to us via the council's Environmental Health team.
that would suggest that what we've done so far has been sufficient,
but over and above that you've now got a safeguard of a more robust set of operating schedule conditions
that the operators will operate to along with the safeguard of a direct telephone number,
so that if there are any problems they can be addressed almost immediately,
and there's always that dialogue and that direct point of contact between the residents and the operators.
Just in terms of the wider community, I'll ask Tanya and Kadu to give some more information about this, but it's very much a community premises, so they've had various community events thus far, and that is the plan to continue with those.
Kadu and Tanya, that's probably quite a good time for you to just very briefly explain what sort of community events you've held.
Yes, so we have been involved quite a lot in the community and we were part of several events.
There was, for example, the Pride event which took place in Nimrod Road and was along the whole stretch of the road.
And we had a store there and sold our beer and participated in the events of the day.
We took part in the First Down Fund Day and raised, I think, quite a bit of money for the community there.
We have organised tasting events with the First Down Project, which is just around the corner of our bar.
We took part in the Tooting Farmers Market, which was just a few weeks ago, which was a great event.
And we actively try to participate in anything that goes on in the area.
We donate raffle prices for local schools.
We collaborate with other local businesses.
We collaborate, for example, with Naked Loaf, who is a pizza place
just down the road from us.
We sell their pizza, so they benefit from us being there.
And we collaborate with other local businesses.
We work together with a lady who has set up a business
and used our spaces for an event she had
for young mothers just to meet.
And in addition to that, we have regular events
that just relate to the community there
and just offers up a space for people to meet,
which is quiz nights, or we do sit and paint events.
we do tasting events, and that is how we think we embed ourselves quite well in the area
and work with the local community in addition to employing mainly local people.
So all our employees live just around the corner of the bar, which is really nice,
and we feel part of this community and are really happy to be in this area.
This is the model that we take from how we operate here in Bäckenen.
So despite we produce our beers and want to sell it,
actually in order to do that we have to have something different than another pub or another venue.
So we're trying to understand what communities want,
what they want to use our spaces and then they can use the views of that.
So, and then, and also even the type of clientele we have,
it's just more like families and young professionals.
So basically they just pretty much,
they want to have another option of,
instead of going to a pub,
that you can just have sports on the screen
or just like loud music.
Now they come and just want to have something
that is more kind of more low key
and just like they feel more comfortable.
So that's why like we attract those
especially families because they feel comfortable bringing the whole family and then again parents
they can have some drinks and the kids they can have a pizza from naked loaf or yard sale
and and also some beverage like you know some softer drinks and juice so I think that's the
way we kind of we put ourselves in a different kind of uh area than uh just the average of uh
establishment. And so yeah, it's just I think to be honest, we understand. And that's why we kind of,
you know, we are here to collaborate with the local residents in order to kind of, you know, find out a way
that we can just pretty much live in peace, I would say.
Yeah, brilliant. Thank you, Caddo. As well, Cher, it might be useful for me to just set out sort of this,
the scale of what it is that you're considering this evening. So we've got a maximum capacity inside of a
approximately 30 people. In respect of the outside areas, as I'd stated at the start of the meeting, it could accommodate up to 280, but what we've agreed with
environmental health is condition 27, which is on page 9 of the agenda pack. So the number of customers permitted to use the external seating area at the rear of the
premises shall not exceed 36 persons at any one time. Also on that note as well, and I think it's fair to say the theme throughout the representation seems to be the
about the majority of the concern anyways is noise from people outside.
Again, with the EHO we've agreed two conditions.
So the first one is number 26,
number of customers permitted to use the external seating area at the front of the premises
shall not exceed 24 at any one time and should only be permitted between 12 midday and 9pm Monday to Sunday,
including public and bank holidays.
and then likewise I'd already read out the capacity for the rear area but again we've got a condition
agreed with the EHO that the times that customers are allowed to use that area should only be between
12 midday and 10 pm and ultimately the latest the premises is asking to close on weekends is 11 30.
So again this is not a high velocity volume drinking nightclub type premises where where
intention is to have loud live music or live recorded music and have people dancing around.
It's very much, as you've heard, part of the community and what the operators are seeking is
to maintain being part of that community and to apply for something that ultimately is a family
business. The plan is for this to be passed down throughout generations, etc. And ultimately not
to not get on with the neighbours. It wouldn't be in the operator's interest to do that. And at the
of the day chair if you decide to grant this licence ultimately anybody on this call or
anybody outside of this call has got the power of review. If you do decide to grant it with whatever
conditions you decide to grant and it operates for a period of time and there's a problem,
one we'd ask that we're contacted via that phone number so that we can investigate it and do
something about it but ultimately there's always the power for somebody to call that licence in for
a review before the committee. Now ultimately we don't want that, we don't want the risk of it and
don't want the relationship with the neighbours to sour to the point where that becomes necessary.
But again, it's a reassurance for the residents and also for committee members as well that this
is not an infinite grant that's open to abuse in the future with no consequences. There is always
the power to call it back in again. Just to finish off on a few other bits, we were not in the
position at the start of the year where we could consider economic impact, but it's no secret. This
a business ultimately, but it's a business that wants to operate in a responsible manner and to
get on with the neighbours, but ultimately it is a business. Paragraph 1 .18 of the guidance to the
Licencing Act 2003 states now that when making licencing decisions, all licencing authorities
should consider the need to promote growth and deliver economic benefits. So ultimately,
if done right, this is a benefit to everybody in the area, it's got the potential to benefit
everyone and ultimately we have to also consider economic growth but we've all got a duty to
balance that with the concerns that have been raised by the residents. What I would say chair
is if you look at those conditions that are contained within the agenda pack, I think they
start at page eight, you'll see for a venue that's got a capacity of roughly 30 indoors
and up to 36 and 24 in its respective external areas it's quite a robust set of conditions
that have been agreed.
And then one final thing before I finish off, Chair, if I may,
I was instructed on this just as we got the notification of hearing through,
I wasn't involved in any of the negotiations.
And I'll say at the outset, I'm ultimately in your hands with this,
but I did note one of the conditions that have been agreed with the police,
it's Condition 50, which is on page 11 of the Agenda Pack,
and it's about concurrent use of premises licences,
and it references the licence with hazels.
I do think it's going to be quite difficult for us to operate with a condition that is contingent on licenced activities going on at other premises
and it's quite unusual to see that kind of condition, Chair.
Again, I appreciate it's been agreed and I'm in your hands and ultimately the police are not here.
What I would ask you to do, because as Julie said at the outset, it's open to you to determine what conditions are placed onto the licence
if you decide to grant it and what form they take.
I'd perhaps ask you to consider one, not including that condition, but two, if you feel that you have to,
if you might consider amending it so that it's very definite and clear that it's when events are going on at Hazel's and vice versa,
or ultimately anything where there might be events that undermine the licencing objectives,
because at the end of the day, if Hazel's decide to have events every night of the week,
that's going to place us in some difficulty over something that we don't have too much control over,
but I'll leave that with you for now.
So that's it from me really, Chair. Thank you.
Fantastic. Thank you very much.
So I'll now open it up to members of the subcommittee to ask questions of the applicant.
Just for those who are making representations, we'll ask the questions here, then we'll move over to individuals making representations.
And then the committee will have the opportunity to ask clarification questions there.
So, Councillor Boswell, did you want to go first,
because you had your question already,
so happy to let you have the first one.
Thank you, Chair.
Yes, I'm Councillor Boswell on this licencing committee.
Yes, I wanted to ask about how the licensees
will be controlling the numbers of people.
We've heard and we've read about the fact it's going to be restricted to 24 people in the front and 38 people in the external area.
And there is capacity for 30 people inside.
So at 9 o 'clock will people then have to leave the premises because there isn't room inside and they can no longer continue to be drinking after 9pm.
I've just got question marks about how practically this is going to work and how it will be managed and will you have security staff there?
That's my question.
Thank you, Councillor Boswell. Chair, are you happy for me to begin to answer that?
Yeah, happy to.
Thanks, Councillor Boswell. Just turning to the conditions, on page nine of the Agenda Pack,
we've got condition five which has got the heading management supervision.
So there are three conditions there.
The premises shall operate with a clear management oversight at all times.
Number 23, regular cheques shall be undertaken of both internal and external areas
to ensure the safe and responsible operation of the premises.
And then number 24, during busy periods,
the manager shall be available and shall be responsible for monitoring external areas
and responding promptly to any concerns.
and then under condition six we've got the outdoor area conditions that I've referred to earlier.
So hopefully that gives you some reassurance in terms of what we've got to do practically and
legally to manage it. Kadi and Tanya do you want to put any more detail to that about how practically
it will be managed to give some reassurance to the committee? Sure, even though we operate
currently it's basically at nine o 'clock we close the premises about the outside space in front
and and we always have space inside because most of the people especially in a warm day like this
they tend to stay they tend to stay outside but also the type of nature of business and also the
type of clientele we have they tend to have one or two drinks and off they go they don't just
they don't want to stay for a long night out,
or because in the end of the day,
you're talking about families and young professionals,
and they want to wake up for the next day.
So we basically, yeah, that's how we operate currently.
And then basically when they come inside,
they can use the back garden as well.
But as I said, our type of operation,
and by nine or nine thirty the thing starts slowing down anyway and then you end up having
and also the type of kind of progression of our business is by nine nine thirty you have more
like a couples or kind of adults so it's more like an adult oriented so that they're going to
stay kind of a little bit longer but it's still like just for one or more drinks and and and off
go but the way you operate is our manager is responsible to we have evidence and also we have
CCTV footage or images how we operate by nine other chairs or even the tables we fold we put
against our our our our building and then you only bring inside the end of the day
but yeah but that's how we kind of be currently operating and now we're managing we are doing
a very good job so far. Thank you very much.
Were there any, Councillor Iliffe, over to you. Hello, thank you very much to the representation
but also to the applicants for speaking very well on this. I do want to ask a kind of follow -up to
Councillor Boswell's very good question. There was some indication from the representations that
may have been kind of breaches of clients in the gardens and the outdoor areas beyond
the present opening hours and I just wanted to cheque, you know, is there substance to this?
How does this happen? Why does it happen? Or does it not happen? And yeah, thank you.
I think Councillor Eilert and if I speak out of turn on this I'll ask Kaddou and Tanya to correct
me. I suspect what's happened is that this is one of the incidents where there's been an event at
Hazel's and which again is the reason why it's been necessary to apply for this so that we can
stop exactly this. Kado and Tanya, do you want to add some more detail to that? Because I know we'd
spoken about it and there'd been various events at Hazel's and we'd suspected that was the case,
but do you want to just confirm to members? Yeah, they do have those events where live music is
happening and of course there is quite a lot of noise created through live music, which is not
something that we do, but we do actively monitor
our outside area and do make sure that people move inside
at the time that they need to move inside.
Yeah, also in our outdoor space, we have two steps.
One that is actually further down and another
as a higher level, which is closer to our building
and also next to our courtroom.
So which basically what we tend to do,
Like despite if you have customers on the lower parts,
we ask them to come to the closer to the building
or if there is space inside, they come inside.
But yeah, I think that's how the way
we kind of will control it.
Again, if anyone will come to our bar
and just be much directly to us and also our manager,
we just pretty much,
we just will take a completely different approach.
But even like, uh, again, uh, something that was mentioned before that we have
the two bars here in Beckinac, all our community also, they have 100 % they can
approach the manager on duty, and then we just pretty much, uh, try to sort of,
if there is any problem, we're trying to sort it out as soon as possible.
And, uh, so yeah, so I think we, as, uh, which is part of our conditions that
we're going to have a direct line.
If there is any problem, please send a message to our manager.
and we do and act as quick as possible.
Sometimes it's just like the matter of talking
to the customers to be more respectful for the neighbours
or if there is any kind of a peak of noise,
how we can control it.
That's kind of the only way we can operate
and make the things to work.
Yeah, thank you, Kade.
Can I say, if I may as well,
just again, to give more reassurance,
Page 8 of the Agenda Pack, part of the CCTV conditions that have been agreed with the police include that we'll have a CCTV system and it's to cover all entry and exit points, the bar area and all external seating areas as well.
So again, that will give everybody some reassurance and also some ability to investigate that if we did ever get an allegation in the future,
we'd be able to refer to that footage and we'd be able to see exactly what was going on and where and whose customers were wearing what was going on.
So again, hopefully that gives you some reassurance that if it is a concern, it can be investigated thoroughly and CCTV will cover that area too.
Thank you. Can I, if I may, chair, jump straight in with a follow up, would that be okay?
Yeah, thank you very much. So really interesting. So essentially, the strong position is that
there's essentially conflation going on on a number of issues with the kind of
hazels next door. And this kind of follows on to my next question, which is, it was really
understanding a little bit more about the live music. There again seems to be some discrepancies
in what's reported and what's kind of advertised for.
Clearly live music is not on the agenda
for this establishment, that's very clear.
But what about recorded music as well?
I know that you mentioned,
your representation mentioned live Sonos speakers,
but in the book, I believe it says note recorded music.
And I'd just like to clarify that.
And indeed, whether that's internal, external, et cetera.
If you could speak to that, I'd be grateful.
Yeah, I can answer that, Councillor Islay, thank you for that. So the reference to no music is exactly that.
So the Sonos speakers will be there purely to give sort of ambient music, background level music, which is not a licenceable activity.
So the plan is to have those speakers there just to give the premises a little bit of atmosphere,
but at no point will it be anything more than just ambient music, just to make sure it doesn't feel like you're sitting in a dentist waiting room
whilst you're having your beer, it's just to give a bit of atmosphere to it as well.
But there's no plan, it's not part of the business plan to have sort of DJ level music
or recorded music that becomes a licenced blacktivity or live music that becomes a licenced blacktivity either.
And also, I would like to add that all our speakers, they have volume control and limit.
So with that company that we operate in our all of the venues as well,
like we tend to kind of, the maximum volume is half of the potential of those speakers,
because basically if you put the volume higher, people have to speak louder and that's where you
have more noise. But if you control the speakers, for me, like if the music disappears, it's fine,
I think to be honest, allow people to talk, but they don't have to raise their voice.
And that's something that we kind of, you know, with the way we operate, we're trying to kind of
because also inside the space can become super noisy if you have the volume going up up up and
that's what we don't want. We want to still feel comfortable and if they want to have this type of
experience they go to a different kind of venue. Thank you. I did have a question which is about
staff training, which is on page eight. So point 12 says all staff involved in the sales
supply of alcohol shall receive training before undertaking such duties. And then point 13
is explaining what that training would cover. It'd be good just to clarify, are all staff
that are on site the ones who will be selling or supplying alcohol, or are there staff members
on site that wouldn't be doing that but would be doing other things and then my lead on question
to that would be for those that say aren't selling alcohol do they also undertake the same level of
training particularly around things like age verification? It'd be good just to get some
clarification on that. How do you do you want to speak to sort of numbers of staff and what
people's role are because that might give a clear picture for members.
Yes, yes the full training is mainly for our managers. Basically they take responsibility
for each shift so they have to kind of be aware of the legality and also the responsibility. Of
course the licence, the permits will be under my name and then I hand over the responsibility to
look after the place. They do the full training and then the rest of the staff they are kind of
They have to answer to the, to the Tepro manager, but also they do like a,
basically a simplified version of the course, which is something more like
an online course, but everybody is aware of the challenge 25, for example, that is
something that is very important in all our, in all our bars, but the main
responsibility fits with the Tepro manager who is running the shift.
And there is always at all times a Tepro manager there.
plus we have posters in a venue showing that we kind of we actively cheque and make sure that
everybody kind of is legally and is legally able to drink or to order drinks but yeah.
Chair might it be useful if I ask Kadeo just to clarify I think the question that you're asking
is are there staff that will work at the premises within the premises that won't sell alcohol and
will they get that training? So Cady, will there be other members, will there be any members of
staff on duty that are working at the premises but won't be responsible for selling alcohol
at any point or will it just be purely by staff and managers? The team is really relatively small,
I mean we have a team of three people, absolute maximum four people and it depends if it's a busy
evening, the manager might pick a person and say, okay, you are
responsible to just walk the floor, make sure everything is clean and tidy.
The noise is all under control.
If we see there is a group sitting outside, we might position even a staff
member out outside to make sure that everything is at all times, always under
control.
So different people might have a different function during an evening, but in terms
of training and awareness of things like Challenge 25.
Everybody is aware of this because everybody theoretically could be involved
in the sale of alcohol.
And also we think we tend to hire people with experience that they have different
experience in bigger venues or like we've like, for most of our staff, they come
from live show concert venues, like some people they used to work in Brixton and other areas,
so kind of they have like a lot of experience. They basically come with the training already.
Yeah they come with the training and also you know they find it very easy working for us
comparing to where they used to work before, like because yeah the nature of the business but you
of the pace and also the type of atmosphere we have in the place as well.
Okay, thank you. Does that answer your question?
It does. I suppose I just had one lead -on question from there. You mentioned that there are people
who you hire who have experience of other premises. Do they also still undergo the same
training? So essentially is the training mandatory for everybody who... Yeah, training would always be
providers. Yeah, yes. So training is provided, but yeah, I think, but it's, yeah, there is, we, we tend to kind of, uh, the managers, they go like, we be pretty much, uh, in more like in depth type of training because we're trying to kind of make sure that also even around the type of, uh, product we sell, which is craft beer, we did, they even had a model type of trainings, double kind of products and, and all the things. But yeah.
Okay thank you. Were there any other questions from the committee that they'd like to ask?
Councillor O 'Liff, yes? I do have one, it's somewhat more niche as a question but it did come up in the
representations and I just, almost a clarity question I suppose. There was the case of
the New Year's Eve and day request, which I may be misunderstanding, but I wanted to understand it
fully. What is meant exactly by, it's a curious phrase, the end of authorised hours on New Year's
Eve to start authorised hours on the following day? To me, that sounds like you would be,
you know, serving essentially through the night and potentially even through the morning according
to that hours list. And I may have got it wrong, but I just like clarity on that. Thank you.
I can answer that, Councillor Eyelidh, thank you.
I don't want to say there's anything standard as part of licence applications,
but across the board that is a pretty standard New Year's Eve permission,
which is on lots of licences, and certainly the advice when applying for a new licence is that
if you want additional hours on New Year's Eve for any purpose that you apply with exactly that wording,
so it's quite common to see that up and down the country,
It just gives operators some flexibility, technically speaking, it can mean that they can trade throughout the night for licenced activities and through to the following day.
It's also something that featured on pre -reform licences, so under the old Act that was quite common on there.
But again, we're in your hands if you feel it's not appropriate to go all the way through, you might see fit to give us some additional hours on New Year's Eve,
perhaps not all the way through, but it's pretty standard to apply for hours that start effectively
on New Year's Eve and go all the way through to the start of permitted hours on New Year's Day
as well. Maybe just to add to this, so we have been doing this now for several years and we have
not had any New Year's Eve party where we celebrated through the night. Yeah, we tend to
close on the 31st around nine or less drinks at nine by ten everybody's up
because they pretend to take away and celebrate elsewhere what we are not because also we wanted
our stuff also they kind of enjoy with their family and friends like in the same way with
Christmas you know by nine less drinks at ten everybody close and then everybody goes home
and have you know family time so to be honest this was a little bit of a yeah it's just a
done that that's it in there but wasn't put in there on purpose because we want to have a party
the whole night that is not at all and also just pointed out we didn't show the world cup
at 4 in the morning and we yeah and the thing to be honest even the we don't show sports because
i think we think that is a big impact for our for our neighbours and i think we think that you know
us come over to our place have a drink before buy a takeaway to Marchra home. Just as well
councillors to to give some reassurance it's it's again it's pretty standard it's a nice to have but
if when you're considering the application you you feel it's not appropriate for whatever reason
and you might consider lesser hours you might consider no additional hours on New Year's Eve
what I would say to you is that if if that does cause you some concern worst case scenario we can
always do a temporary event notice if they decide that they wanted to have a New Year's Eve party.
So that's another option as well.
Yeah, I do think that's helpful for us to know all of the above information, because I know that that has been a specific concern.
And there is. Yeah. OK. I mean, most things obviously come to a close around two o 'clock at the latest in practise, even if not in law, as you say.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Final ask for any questions to the applicant from the subcommittee. If not, I will now
invite the representations. You have just chived 17 minutes just to make it make it
fair I'm keeping keeping it to the clock. So happy for you to use the 17 minutes equally
if you if you so wish. So who would like to speak first?
Shall I kick off? Absolutely, over to you, Councillor Cooper.
Okay, thanks very much, Chair. Can I just say that the implementation of the brewery on Moyza Road is very popular with people locally,
and I want to get that straight out there right now. I was actually there for the Pride event with friends at the front of the premises.
I've drunk in brewery now a few times inside and I've been into the garden and I think it's a great addition.
The premises was originally conjoined with Hazel's and it has been let on multiple occasions to lots of different organisations who've never managed to make both halves work.
and then the people who did Hazel's introduced belgiardino, which means
beautiful garden in Italian, and they created the garden at the back and they
tried to run it as a bar but it wasn't very successful. So it's fantastic to see
brewery coming in and now making a go of it. So just to answer the point that
Sarah Taylor was making about this weird situation, that's why because the
people who ran Hazel's also ran belgiardino and they applied for a
Now, when they went through that licence application, all some of these same issues all came up about worries about noise.
We've just been describing what a family friendly area is, that the bar is actually aimed to meet the sort of clientele who live locally.
And there's a lot of families with small children. In fact, I was there earlier on today and there were people with their small children in the garden having a lovely time.
and doing exactly what Cuddi was describing.
However, people were worried about noise.
And so it was originally decided not to give it
through the night for New Year's night,
because that was applied for then,
and not to allow any drinking outside in external areas
after nine o 'clock.
And the reason for that was because people
were very concerned about the noise issues.
And whilst in general, I wouldn't say that if you were
you, because I live locally, if I walk past the, there's an alleyway that runs around
the back of the garden that comes out onto Nimrod Road and then if I walk past the premises
and go to the shops and then come back again, you can hear noise coming out. It's not from
Hazel's, it's not music from Hazel's, it's the sound of voices coming from the garden
and in particular one of the events that's just been held at the end of July with a quiz
night, which obviously the questions are amplified, and people in their houses at the top of Nimrod
Road, which is where Debbie and Faith and Patsy Sharp live, could have joined in the quiz from
sitting in their sitting room. So I want it to be a successful bar because I think it's really
adding something to the area, but we do need to balance that with a definite noise nuisance
that is now emanating mainly from the rear garden.
A lot of people were worried about the front.
I haven't heard anybody saying anything about the front.
So actually, I think extending hours from drinking up at 9pm to drinking up at 9 .30pm at the front,
or possibly even 10pm, would work.
Moisar Road has very wide pavements and a very wide road and sound dissipates.
At the back, the garden is small.
It is a beautiful garden, it's lovely.
It's got seating in the bottom area with 24 seats
and then in the raised area that Cuddi was just describing
that's under a corrugated plastic area and sort of adjoins the bar.
There's seating for another 18 people.
I think there needs to be further noise mitigation.
Next door at Hazel's their fence goes up a lot higher
and what someone has done at the back of Brewery, it was probably done by Belge -Ardino,
is they've put a trellis up which doesn't really stop sound at all and then they've attached plastic leaves to it.
I actually think the fencing needs to go to the same height as hazels to create an actual physical barrier
to stop the noise emanating out of there and it's such a small space it seems to concentrate the sound of voices
and if the bar is successful and people are using the garden as well as the indoor area,
then obviously there will be the sound of 20 to 30 voices and with the best will in the world,
even with ambient low music, if you've got that number of people that is going to sound very noisy
to people who are living just in their house very very close and there are also flats upstairs.
So I think also, and this would also potentially allow you to use the garden more extensively,
having some of those, I don't know whether you want to call them parasols or umbrellas,
but very large, that actually cover over the parts of the garden. They'd probably make it
more usable in the winter months. Some people attach those heaters to them, which I deplore
because of climate change, but you know, I think you need some physical barriers to stop the noise
from the rear garden otherwise I would suggest that you need to stick with the earlier emptying
of the garden and I think you know it would have to stay at nine o 'clock. I think with some further
sound mitigation you could potentially on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday go to 9 30 and then you
maybe go a bit later on Friday and Saturday, but I do think you do need to put in more sound
mitigation. It's not from hazels, it is from the fact that you're being successful and people are
just having a great time in the garden. It's a lovely space but we need to stop the noise from
annoying the neighbours and if I can hear it just from walking past and think oh that's quite loud,
for the people who are living in those properties very, very close.
And they were there first. You know, you've got the, you can't say, well, they moved there
and they should have realised there was going to be a noisy car because they moved there first.
And we also have older residents. Fersdown is very much a place where people come and settle, if you like.
And so we've got families with children bringing up lots of children, loads of schools, very good schools, primary and secondary.
and then we've also got people who've lived in Fursdown for a long time, so older residents don't want the sound to go on for very late at night either.
So I think if the committee can think about mitigation of the sound and also perhaps some nights of the week going a bit later,
but not going too late in the back garden all the time, maybe a bit later at the front, I think could be tolerated.
No one's come back to me, the people who were worried before, about noise at the front at all.
That's not been an ongoing issue. I hope that's helpful and I'll be quiet because I'm sure Debbie and Faith want to add to what I've just said. Thank you.
Thank you, Leonie. Faith, do you want to... I can't see Faith on the...
Is Faith there?
Yes, hello, I'm here.
Oh, there we go. Yeah.
Yeah, do you want me to go first or do you want to go first?
I'll go next I think.
So I've written down what I'm going to say because I'm not as confident speaking to an audience as you guys even though...
Anyway, so first of all, I'll just make a few points in response to Leonie, I think, and thank you Leonie for making those points.
I agree that the noise nuisance is mainly in the rear garden.
I agree that the fence or noise buffering is a very good idea.
And I also agree that the noise inside the property does echo down the gardens.
I disagree that longer drinking at the front is a good idea because I think that that road
is not suitable for outdoor drinking.
I think there's still residents opposite and as you said in flats above who will be disturbed.
and I think the noise does actually carry over
from the front of the property,
especially if the front door and the back door
are both open, that noise carries down the gardens
and disturbs us.
I'm now just gonna read out the points that I made
in representation of my household.
So first of all, thank you to everyone
for the representations, explanations
and assurances so far.
I think we can all,
It's evident to all of us that the business model of brewery is an excellent business
model. It's superb. And I welcome them to the area in so many ways and express many
of the ideas that Leonia has just said. I am a customer, I'm a local resident. And on
the one hand, we very much support the business. So however, our main argument is that this
the residential area. And so whilst economic growth is the main concern of the committee,
our position as residents is as residents who did not choose to live near a bath. So that's
our position. We've lived here for 21 years. We have raised a family of two, and we've both
worked in ones with schools. So we're ones with residents. We're strongly opposed to the extension
of opening hours and on Moyza Road. We're already disturbed by noise up to 10 o 'clock
and on occasion past 10 o 'clock and we think that extending the licencing and the opening
hours will only necessarily extend that disturbance. The nature of the noise disturbance for us is that
it's in our garden and also in our house. Our bathroom window faces onto the property, we have
direct line of sight into the, into the bar and garden.
And with windows open, the noise travels in at the back of our house.
And disturbs us in the house.
We find that the noise is unpredictable, sporadic, and it's every day, every
evening, and it puts us on alert.
It has an impact on our nervous system and our sleep patterns.
We can't enjoy the cool of the garden on the hot evenings.
We have had to close windows due to the noise, meaning that we can't cool the house down
adequately to go to bed at a suitable time, delaying our sleep. We are for working adults
and disturbance every night until 10pm and 9pm on Sundays is already putting us under
strain. So we would request that we do not want that disturbance to go past 10 o 'clock
and nine o 'clock on a Sunday.
We don't want the hours to be extended.
There is also a slippery slope argument to be made,
which is that if we allow an extension now,
this could lead to more requests.
I think the horse has bolted
in terms of allowing a licence in this area.
When we moved here, there was no licencing in this area.
I think it was a Quaker area
or something I was once told.
There was a covenant for 100 years, apparently. No drink, yeah.
You know, that was one of the attractions for us. Moving here, as Leonia said, we didn't choose to move here, we didn't choose to live near a bar.
And, you know, frankly, I hear the assurances of the present owners and they are superb.
I understand that. However, we cannot guarantee how any future owners will behave. If this
licence is allowed now, then, you know, we've opened floodgates for further requests. I
think there's an argument that says there will be longer to impact on the area. I think
that the area will change from being a residential area, it'll become a hospitality hub potentially,
possibly, and you know people don't buy houses or buy homes, sorry, and set up home with a family
in hospitality hubs. People buy rentals or you know houses could become divided into flats and
you know, this area will change. That would affect how obviously our house price or it would affect
our life choices. So I think it's going to have potentially a slippery slope impact on us,
on the area. So in summary, we do oppose the extension of the licencing and the opening hours
in brewery, even though we are very, very welcoming and supportive of this really,
really superb business. We didn't choose to live near a bar. We are concerned about the
impact on our wellbeing moving forward. That's it. Thank you very much.
Thanks. May I go?
Absolutely.
I know the time is ticking. I agree totally with everything that Faith has said, because I'm
the same position, my house backs on. And the noise is in, it's not recorded music,
it's not live music, it's voices. And it's like having a party every night, a next door
party every single night of the week. It's not fair to blame Hazel's. Hazel's is only
open on Thursday nights. Many a time I've gone there to see that the bar is open, Hazel's is
closed. Many a time I've checked and that's the case. And in fact you haven't, you've got nearly
100 people in that premises in brewery. It's not just 80. There are 30 people inside and the
all skewed as 24 at the front. That's 90 people, in fact, if it's at full capacity. So that's
near 100 people. And to have most of the people at the back of the premises just makes the
whole thing worse. And yes, I'm reassured that we've got a direct telephone number,
but I totally oppose the extension and the extended hours.
And I think personally, I should think it should be nine o 'clock and no more.
Maybe Friday and Saturday night maybe to ten o 'clock or eleven, but certainly not eleven thirty.
It's far too noisy.
Friday and Saturday nights is fine.
I mean, I'm a client of the brewery, I've been in there and it's great.
But, and I think, I really think that the noise mitigation that Leonie put up should be seriously considered by the owners.
And I think that will help a great deal because that, the noise of voices and screaming at times as well, real screaming and laughing and, you know,
and we're out in the garden and closing the door is a necessity. I've lived here 43 years and I
didn't move into a bar area, but there were not even any cafes and I welcome such businesses on
Moisar Road. They're needed for young families, but to have noise like that funnelled into your
garden and through your house, as Faith says, it's very, very disruptive. That's all I've
got to say. Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, there is about a minute left, so just want to make sure you have the call
at the time.
Sorry, simply that, thank you, simply that the opening hours that are being proposed,
I believe are from 10am to 10 .30pm.
And I just think that's simply too long to ask us to
experience that level of sporadic,
you know, unpredictable noise disturbance.
I think having the outside seating open until 10 .30.
36 people is not a good idea.
I think the outside seating area at the moment
is supposed to close at nine.
And I think it's closed.
It doesn't close until 10 quite often.
Later.
And when people leave at 10pm from that outside seating area, you know, people leaving
generates a bit of noise and I don't want, I mean, that noise at 10pm is
difficult and that noise after 10pm would be more difficult.
Well it is, it goes on after 10pm.
It goes on after 10pm.
That is tied, so I'm now going to turn to the subcommittee for any questions that you may have for representation.
Councillor Boswell, Councillor Ilyff.
Do you have any?
So I will ask, I mean, this is jumping in with quite a specific question, but it speaks
to one element of what we have to consider here today.
I do want to say thank you to all three of you speaking and, you know, very eloquent
and heartfelt, which is noted.
I can see the impact on your lives.
I suppose one of the things that was talked about earlier is the importance of the economic
impact of this business in the local community, but also the economic impact of poor sleep
is the kind of flip side of that, you know, people struggling to go and go to work and I suppose
I just wanted to come back to Faith if she's able to speak or willing or perhaps one of the others
if they want to, to just talk a little bit more about the impact on sleep from noise.
Really just what I described. So especially in the hot weather, not being able to open
the windows in the evening to cool the house adequately, which delays are going to bed.
Also I could add that my son sleeps at the back of the house. My husband and I sleep
at the front of the house. And in the hot weather, if I have the front windows open,
I think we can hear people leaving. We can hear people in the road, and they congregate
in the road as they're leaving. Not often, but if there'd been a big party, I know there
was a 50th birthday party a while ago, I know some of the people there, and as they were
leaving, so that kind of noise would go, I imagine.
And also should mention that the waste collection happens, it was 5 .15am this week, I think
it's on Tuesday, when the bins from the back alley were collected. And I know I've read
it on one of the papers here that it was going to be guaranteed from 7 .30am to within reasonable
times, but it happened at 5 .15 this week, and that disturbed us. So, you know, we've
got the combined effect of the hot weather and the noise from the bar. But, you know,
so it's impacting on our sleep, and it's impacting, as I said, on our nervous systems and sense of that
kind of constant being on alert that a noise is going to happen and you're going to hear it.
every day. It's okay when the normal noise that you get from people having a party and
so on occasionally, children playing, etc., people being in their gardens, this is every
day, every evening. It's a lot.
Yeah, I can agree with Faith that it is every night. We sleep at the front of the house,
We have our windows open and we can hear people leaving down the end of Nimrod Road.
We're only four or five houses back.
And our lodger, he always keeps his windows closed now because he sleeps at the back.
It's just if we go in the garden on cool evenings, it does...
I agree with Faith, it happens every night. It's like a party every night of the week.
And it goes on until ten, sometimes eleven. It's not hazels.
So I think, Councillor Eyliff, having the success of the bar, but it can't be at the expense of people not being able to sleep in the neighbouring houses,
which is why I talked about the mitigation. And obviously if the bar is staying open till
half past eleven at night and there's thirty people and just having thirty people is quite
a large number of people, even if all they're doing is talking over ambient music, and then
you're also woken up at five thirty in the morning with the bins being collected, then as you can see
it's starting to really be quite disruptive for people's sleep. And I think that this is why
there were the 19 representations that objected. Because obviously there's those of us who are on
the call right now, on the video call of the meeting, but there were a lot more. Obviously
also because people like the new bar, there were some people who went out of their way to say,
yeah, it's great, but obviously not as many. So I think 19 objections shows the impact. And I think
what we're asking you to do is to consider how best to balance making the bar a success, but
without it having this impact on local families who are living so close to it, so that the economic
impact on them is very negative, which is perhaps difficult. But that's what I was saying about the
and also not going to 10 .30 or 11 .30 every night of the week, which I think would be too much for local people, really too much. Thank you, Jack.
Hopefully that has answered your question, John. Councillor Ilyff. Councillor Boswell.
Thank you very much. Thank you everybody who's made representations and I'm listening very carefully to what you're saying.
And have a huge amount of empathy for the disturbance that you're obviously suffering and it struck me very much that often people move to an area like this and then they complain, but you're not in that category.
I think one of you said that there are actually no cafes even when you first moved there.
That's right.
So it does put a very strong case.
However, we have policy considerations when we're making our decision.
And there are four and they are very, very clear and we have to make our decision to these policy considerations.
Now, they are the prevention of crime and disorder, public safety, the prevention of public nuisance, and the protection of children from harm.
Is there anything more under any of those headings that you would like to add?
I think we're all addressing the prevention of public nuisance around noise. I don't think
anybody is suggesting that the bar is a danger to children or reducing crime and disorder
and whatever the other one is that I can never remember. I know that there are only the four
areas. Public safety.
Public safety. Nobody is saying that any of those are an issue. The issue that people
are concerned about is the prevention of public nuisance, specifically noise nuisance. Certainly
that's what people have said to me. Faith or Debbie might want to add something more, but that
is very specifically the area that people are concerned about. I would say that, yeah.
Public nuisance. Can I add one thing? I think the very fact that we're having to think about
that all of those things points to a slippery slope argument.
This area, the residential area, we haven't had to consider those things.
And by, you know, the horses bolted by the fact that the property was given a licence.
In our view, that's something we would, with hindsight, have, you know, wanted to offer
opposition to. But certainly, the very fact that we're having this conversation
It adds to that, a slippery slope argument.
Thank you.
We haven't had to worry about crime and that kind of thing in this area.
Drink -related, late -night, licencing -related crime.
And now we do.
We may do.
Now we're having a conversation about it, we're not saying that there is.
I go back to the point that it's a very, very well run business and I appreciate that.
Thank you.
May I just add, if that's okay, that the noise prevention measures, I'd be really grateful if they could be taken, that Leonie said.
I mean, the big umbrellas and the higher fence, you know, actual sound barriers, they will probably go a long way to address our concerns.
I mean, the fence, they only made excellent points about the fence being low and there being a trellis, and there are no umbrellas at all.
I mean, you know, it's just continuous chatter and it's very loud from, you know, 36 people in that garden.
You know, I think if noise measures could be put in, noise prevention measures can be put in fairly soon,
I think that will go a long way to mitigate things.
That's really helpful. Thank you so much, all of you.
Thank you. If there are no more questions or clarification from the committee, thank
you to those who have made representations. I'll now invite each party to provide any
closing remarks they'd like to submit. You'll have a maximum of two minutes. The representations
will go first followed by the applicant to address the licencing committee. So you have two minutes,
I don't know whether you wanted to organise it so one person speaks or whether you want to
divvy up that two minutes. I'm happy for you to do that. I'm happy for Leonie to speak.
Okay, Councillor Cooper, I think that's agreement for you to speak.
Well thank you. Yeah so just speaking on behalf of local residents, I think in some what we're
saying is the brewery coming along and coming in and taking the licence originally granted
to Belge -Ardino will completely understand why they now want a separate licence. I think
Sarah set that out very carefully for us at the beginning. But the issue is, is in the
granting of the new licence, we would ask that the committee consider the issues that
considered when Belge -Ardino was originally granted the licence with only up until 9pm
in the outside areas and that if you are going to think about extending that beyond 9pm that there
is a noise nuisance impact on particularly the close neighbours and that it would be great if
the brewer was able to offer to mitigate that with the one -off cost in terms of putting the fence hire
and actually I think it would make the area outside even more usable and economically viable for them to have some of those umbrellas which I think would really muffle the sound.
I would also argue that Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday evenings perhaps should have an earlier closing time for the outside areas to be retained,
certainly at the rear, and that you should only be thinking, if you are thinking, of extending on a Thursday perhaps a bit later, and then Friday and Saturday perhaps a bit later still.
And I think nobody has suggested to me that when they objected to the through the night application by Belge -Ardino, nobody sounds keen to have that operating all through the night.
and I think as we've all said probably most places you know don't need anything after 2pm but I mean
you know a temporary events notice could be applied for to extend hours you know for that
specific night so I think it's about balance but agreeing what you can to prevent the noise nuisance
that is impacting on those immediately very close to the brewery you know we want it to succeed but
that noise impact, it is quite difficult for people and it isn't hazels. It is the bar being successful.
So mitigating that, but at the same time, you know, allowing it to continue to operate. Thank you, Chair.
Fantastic. Thank you. And now hand over to the applicant. You all have two minutes to address the subcommittee.
Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to those who have made representations as well,
and particularly Councillor Cooper,
I thought you were very fair and balanced.
I think, Chair, it's probably fair to say
that although we're at odds on some issues,
I think they're smaller and the gap is not too big.
I think everybody agrees,
it sounds like certainly on the call,
everybody agrees it's a good concept,
it's a good operator, it's a responsible operator,
and we want to make sure that it's economically viable
for the bar to operate.
That does make me slightly nervous
in terms of a reduction of hours based on what we've applied for because ultimately
a bar won't be profitable unless it can trade. But the representations that we've heard are
absolutely right, that's got to be balanced with the rights of residents and the promotion of the
licencing objectives. I would hope first and foremost that you're given some reassurance
by the absence of EHO and the police that the conditions are able to do that so far. But also
Chair I'm mindful of time, I think what I want to say is that the operators are open to the
that have been suggested by Councillor Cooper and by the other representatives, in that they would be open to putting physical measures into the garden,
which then by virtue of that, if they are effective, would in theory address the issue of concerns over extended hours.
So it may be that we've got one solution that could address everything and it seems like that's the right thing to do.
What I'd invite you to do, Chair, and again I'm completely in your hands, is rather than putting specific conditions onto the licence about fencing and
parasols and things like that which they're open to looking at and to implementing. I'd suggest
that we have a noise management plan and that a condition is that we have a noise management plan
because that way it's a condition that we have to have a plan and it's a defence if we don't and
it's a breach of condition if we don't but the actual plan sits separately. It allows us to test
out what works, it allows us to add certain things, it allows us to trade for a period of time and take
them away without having to come back and vary the licence every time and you might want to put
some safeguarding that we discussed that plan with the EHO, we get them to visit and take a look at what we've done.
But ultimately, I would suggest that a noise management plan, along with the conditions we've already offered and the additional condition that we've offered,
to say that residents will have a direct contact number should be the solution and allow the hours and the application to be granted as applied for.
And then just as if I can finish off, Chair, just to say to the residents, I hope you've seen that we're open to communicate.
I've written to you, you've got my contact details and my email address, you've got the email address
and you will have the contact number of the operators talk to us. If there's a problem, let us
know. We're open to discussing it with you and talking about it and ultimately there's no benefit
in the operators not doing that because it puts the licence at risk longer term. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank you again to everybody for making your representations.
That now concludes this part of the meeting.
The decision reasons and any legal guidance
given during the subcommittee's discussion
as informed the decision will be confirmed in writing
together with any information about any rights of appeal.
This will all come through within five working days.
Members of the licencing subcommittee,
democratic services officer and legal advisor
will now join the separate confidential meeting room
to make the decision.
Thank you very much everybody else and hope you have a good rest of the evening.
Thank you.