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Licensing Sub-Committee
Thursday, 23rd July 2026 at 7:00pm

 
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Okay, chair, we're now live. So whenever you're ready to begin, please.
Okay. Welcome to this meeting of the licencing subcommittee, which has been held as a remote
meeting. This meeting is also being webcast. So please bear with us if there are any technical
issues. I can also confirm that Councillor Botting is attending the meeting instead of
Councillor Mitten, who was originally named on the agenda. Councillor Botting is a member
of the licencing committee and is therefore eligible to attend as a decision maker,
and she has received all the relevant paperwork in advance of the meeting.
My name is Councillor Fisher and it is proposed that I chair this meeting. It's disagreed.
I will now invite the other attendees to introduce themselves in the following order.
Councillors, officers, applicants, representations. Councillor Apps.
Hello, my name is Councillor Sara Apps. I'm a Councillor for Shaftesbury in Queenstown
Ward, which is in Battersea, and I'm a Labour Councillor. Nice to meet you all.
Councillor Botten. Hello, I am Councillor Kirsten Botten. I am
a Councillor in Trinity Ward in Tooting and I'm a Conservative Councillor.
The officers. Guy Bishop, the Legal Advisor to the Licencing
Subcommittee. Julie Hopkins, Licencing Officer.
And the applicants, shall we start with the applicants for the Regime Pizzeria application?
Yeah, my name is Anita Recaldo, I'm the DPS and I'm a health co -licence holder for Regime Pizzeria.
Sorry, I'm not sure that's just me but Miss Ricciardo, your audio is not,
We're not picking up that well.
Straping to hear you.
Me?
Yeah.
Oh, sorry.
My name is, is that better?
Not really.
Okay, easy.
In the meantime, do you want me to start?
Yes, please. Thank you.
Hello, good evening.
My name is Malu Castell.
I'm director of Regina Pizzeria.
Hello, my name is Vincenzo Argano.
I'm the operation manager of Regina Pizzeria.
Can you hear me better now?
Yeah, okay, sorry.
My name is Annella Recaldo and I'm the DPS and alcohol licence
holder for Regina Pizzeria.
Good evening.
I'm Nicolas and I'm the owner of Messenin.
and the licence holder and the manager.
Okay, and Dr. Langer.
You may call me Lenny.
I am the resident in 20 Enterprise V
and I am representing the residents,
which is approximately, I believe 74 flats.
Thank you, Ms. Patel.
Yes, I'm Ria.
I'm a resident close to the mezzanine and I'm objecting to the licencing hours.
Thank you.
I think that's everyone. Are there any apologies for absence
or declarations of interest for any items on the agenda?
Thank you. So before we proceed to the first application, I would like to advise those
attending for the mezzanine agenda item that they should have their cameras and microphones
switched off and muted whilst we consider the regime pizzeria application.
Sorry, what do I do? Do I switch off the camera?
Yes, please, and your microphone.
But do I keep the… do I stay in the meeting?
Yeah, yeah. Once we've had this agenda item, we will then proceed to the second application
at which point you can turn your cameras and microphones on and those attending the Regime
Pizzeria agenda item will leave the meeting room. So we'll now consider the first application
on the agenda for a new premises licence in respect to the premises known as Regime Pizzeria,
20 Enterprise Way London SW11 8SA and I now invite the licencing officer Ms. Hopkins to
introduce the application. Thank you Councillor. Sicily Brothers Limited have applied for a
new premises licence at Regine Pizzeria at 20 Enterprise Way London SW18 1SA for the
sale of alcohol for consumption on and off the premises and the provision of regulated
entertainment live in recorded music. Appendix C of the committee report provides the full
timings of the activities being applied for. The application was advertised as required under the
legislation with site notices at the premises and with a newspaper advert. This resulted in the
receipt of 10 representations from other persons objecting and one in support. The applicant
responded to the representations received by agreeing to amend the application and withdrew
outdoor events and all live and recorded music in the outside area. Following this
amendment, six objectors withdrew their representations, leaving the remaining
four. It's these objections representations that are the only
matter for consideration tonight. Appendix A to the committee report lays
out the conditions arising from the applicant's operating schedule, including
those agreed with the Metropolitan Police and the Council's Noise and
Nuisance team, which will become conditions of the licence if it is
granted. Appendix B to the report outlines conditions requested by one of the objectors.
And Appendix C to the report lays out the proposed hours for this licence.
Councillors, the options that are open to you tonight when deciding this new application
include A, granting the application as requested for, or B, modifying the conditions of the
licence to alter or omit conditions or add new, or reject the whole or part of the application.
Councillors, I've laid out the brief facts of the application, but I'll be happy to answer
any questions you may have.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Does the subcommittee have any questions for the licencing officer?
I tried to put up her hand, but I don't know if it worked.
So yeah, I'm reading through, I think it was one of the supplementaries actually, and someone
brought up the issue of outdoor smoking at the venue and I have some sympathy for their concerns
about that and I wanted to ask the licencing officer if there was any possibility of like
further restricting that if that's within our powers or not? It was, I mean smoking's not
licenseable, but it would come under public nuisance and if the applicant was
minded to add a condition for a designated smoking area, I don't know,
they haven't offered any, but I can see, but you'd have to ask that of the
applicant I'm afraid. Yeah, I mean you want to let the applicant give their
explanation of what they're doing, they know that's an issue I think, so perhaps
that's the way to proceed.
Can I reply for that? Sorry, when you're asked to speak by the
chair, you can address that as part of your representation.
If we first go through questions from the subcommittee and then we can turn to the clarifications.
Are there any other questions for the licencing officer on the subcommittee?
I suppose I'm not.
Could I ask one more question?
Yes, please.
Thanks.
So there's obviously the issue that came up in a lot of the objections was around the
idea of nurseries and so forth being closed, but I wasn't aware of any restrictions on
licenced facilities near those kinds of community facilities,
but could the licenced officer tell us if there are?
No, there aren't.
My only question for the officer is whether the pavement area
outside the restaurant is a private, is it privately
controlled as part of the development or is that public?
I don't know, you'd have to ask the applicant that I'm afraid, I don't know.
Are there any other questions or clarification on anything that has been stated? As a reminder,
both the applicant and representations will have a chance to address the subcommittee.
So this should only be where you would like something like clarification or something
stated by the speaker. Lily?
I would like to add to Sarah that my understanding is that Wandsworth Council, when they are
giving out those licences, you basically, one of your concerns is public safety nuances
and basically to prevent the harm of children.
and the problem is, which I provided, there is a play area, an open play area, so when
the pedestrian side ending, we have a little bit of green area and there is four designated
sign that this is a play area which is often used by locals and children.
So even if you had a side designated area, because we are at the conjunction of River
Thames and the river Wando that is going to go through because we often get very windy because
of that conjunction. And just to further add every single development in the riverside border,
we have a ban so basically the residents itself are not allowed to smoke on their own balcony and
we have open balconies and since this resume is the ground floor and right up basically there are
10 floors, 10 open balconies on one side and 10 on the other side.
So that is severely impacting multiple residents and I think it was raised that because we are a shared ownership development,
we have multiple families with small children under, I believe, one year, around six months, little babies.
So if this possibly would be considered, because I understand the council itself doesn't put different kind of, you know, like shops next to nurseries which are... yep.
Sorry, Mr Bishop, sorry, did you...
I'm sorry?
You are muted.
Sorry, apologies. Lily's straying into her rep at this stage, so you need to, it's questions,
I have to say normally it's questions from the committee for the licencing officer,
but nevertheless I suggest that we want to get on with the applicant presenting so he can explain
these sort of issues to you before you hear from the people making representations.
Thank you, Ms. Fisher.
No, thank you.
Thank you.
I'm now up and by the applicants to address the subcommittee and you have five minutes to speak after which questions may be asked to you.
Mr. Ocala, do you want to start?
Yeah, sure.
Well, would you like to start, Mihon?
The representation at the left.
We can even start with a smoking point.
We understand and we agreed on that.
In fact, we have put on no smoking sites all across our areas outside when we are our table,
which they are designed by fixed bed flowers.
And my understanding and our understanding is that that is part of our property.
In fact, when we asked, we've been told that we don't need to ask for a licencing for a table and chair licence.
to having an outside area because that is part of our property according to the management
and leaseholder. So this is the that was one. To welcome Lily and all the other ones about smoking
we put a sign out there is no smoking all the outdoor area to protect and to prevent children
from harm as well as and also they're balcony on top. We understand we got a representation we act
on it. We also acted and asked Julie when we had it all to revise our outdoors music entertainment.
We take that off our licence so all our music is recorded music and solo indoors.
Then there was another representation about off -selling and selling of alcohol because you
got children on site and they could be in harm for children. We are a family -run business. We are all
family. We go to them on our own and we are for family. We are in the pizzeria, we are not a pub.
We will not allow anyone to consume any alcoholic drink or beverage if it is not part of a meal
or part of a, it comes with any type of food. Our licence, sorry, our point is because we are
a family we will never let anyone either get drunk, bear in mind it's low, but we, as I said,
once the kitchen closes, even the bar closes down with it.
We are not aiming to become a pub
and we will not allow anyone drinking after hours
or after the kitchen is closed
because we want to avoid all of that.
Someone else also asked again,
object to the power of selling alcohol off premises.
Next to us, there is a Sainsbury's
And there's also a, there are two pubs
and there's a off -licence.
There's near shop next, but they do sell alcohol
off -licence or for the premises.
So I don't see why that could be a stop on our condition.
We do take it away, we do deliveries.
We, our one of our aims is to serve as all the residents
as best that we can do.
for us, pizza and a bottle of beer to take out, they can have that. We don't see why not, because they can go to sales via from there.
There was one of the representations was also pointed out and where we are located, we are
at the end of the cul -de -sac and we've been told that we got drivers then they stopped
on a double yellow blocking the bussing, constructing the busses for the 485.
That is, we have instructed all our deliveries to come only twice a week and we agreed with
the management to reserve a bay, bay 28 or 29, on 12 hours and they do come down with
the trolleys and delivery down because that's their parking bay, that's their parking space.
Whether we have been witnessed of deliveries literally obstructing throughout any hours
all across the Deboian and blocking even the 405, which was an us.
Nuisance and timings. Our licence, we agreed, we applied for 22 .30 or for half past 10 at night,
but our opening time and working time are way less than that. We closed every night at 10 o 'clock and we closed at 9 .30 on a Sunday.
And that would be the latest that we can do. Some of them are also subjected on our New Year's Eve hourly time,
which in New Zealand in celebration, if we need to start a sport then we will be closing
at our normal time. We are happy to comply with any suggestion or representation and
can come with it. As long as there is a base of it, there is a foundation for it.
Something else, something else, something else.
Sorry.
Which other one?
We've been told then we are, because we are opposite a nursery or two nurseries in the area,
people have concerns then us selling alcohol could disturb their kids or the safety of the children.
At the moment our opening time is at four o 'clock in the evening till ten o 'clock and we are open all year on Saturday and Sunday from 12 o 'clock till nine on Sunday.
Nursery is closed by then. The timing of nursery they are closed so we don't see what that would affect us trading at the same time.
Smoking, we're happy to address that. As I said, we blocked that off. Someone also said
and there could be others or smelling came out from restaurants. We have had all our
certification for our extraction installed. We had in talk to the guidance told our extraction
and the company did that to instal new philtres to avoid any kind of smell that comes out
and to feel that they're there and make sure that it is actually compliant because all our equipment is compliant as per law.
We have certificates to prove to do that.
Thank you. I think that's five minutes. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Does the subcommittee have any questions for the applicant?
Cancer botting?
Yeah, I think residents will be reassured to hear that you're addressing the smoking
issue. What I'd like to ask is how would you enforce that if someone starts smoking, not
realising that there are, you said, signs up saying no smoking?
And also on each table. We will go down and we tell them, sorry, there is no smoking area.
if their basis we will invite them to leave. Okay, okay thank you. Absolutely.
Thank you, you said that you sell takeaway delivery as well as eating premises.
Will you be selling alcohol without pizza as a takeaway? No. Okay that's useful to know.
and how do your hours compare to the local things, Bruce? I'm sorry, it's not one that's local for me.
This stage is open from 7 in the morning till 11pm, where we are open from 4 in the afternoon till 10 o 'clock.
OK, thank you very much.
I also had a query, it's more for my interest, but I noticed that you'd said you were keen to get the licence by, I think it was on the 8th of June.
And I wondered when you submitted it, because I couldn't find it in the form.
I don't think it says what date you submitted it.
It's only because I'm wondering how long it takes for the…
17th of May, or 16th of May.
And the end of the consultation was the 17th of June.
But then we have received all representation on 16, between the 15th and 17th of June.
Yeah. No, no, it's just I'm interested in how long licences take to come through the system.
so it's just thank you very much for answering my questions. Thank you for asking. Mr Bishop.
Sorry to interject again, so just to help on the second point first, we have a 28 -day
consultation followed by 20 days in which to actually set up the meeting, so that's the
hours of other premises nearby are not for your consideration making your decision. You're
making the decision on the merits of the application before you promoting licence objectives when
reaching that decision. So you have to, you cannot consider what other hours there may
be for other premises nearby, just so you're aware.
Councillor Adams.
I just, could I just say something about that? The reason why I asked is because part of
um the licence holders um defence was that why would people come to them for alcohol if it was
being sold in the local shop so I just wanted to cheque if the local shop would be open in order for
them not to come because I agree you'd be much more likely to go to Sainsbury's to buy a bottle
of wine if the Sainsbury's is open. So for later yeah I just thought to make it plain just so that
that's not a consideration for anybody uh obviously you have a different reason for asking that
Councillor Apps and obviously I understand that, but I thought I'd make the point just
so everybody knows.
Thank you.
I had a question about what can the business meaningfully do in relation to delivery drivers
waiting outside the premises.
I note that under condition 11 of the application, it states that delivery drivers and drivers
will be interrupted not to cause noise nuisance.
How is that communicated?
Is that through the app?
So do you just -
Through the app.
We do, deliveries can only via the app.
So our third parties such as Deliverooz or Justit.
We agreed on when we registered on Deliverooz and so on.
We were one of ours in our contact
and part of our agreement with them was
all the liver drivers must park when there's another area east and they need to walk down to us
which is they need to walk down 10, 15 metres to coming down to get into the venue.
They will not be able to park outside because the double yellow and is in on a curve
toward any nuisance and of suction.
And now, Davinci, what's the balance between takeaway sales and…?
It's minimum.
For now, it's minimum.
The deliveries, if we do one or two orders a day, that is max.
We make way more money, more sales on people coming in and dining or takeaway than delivery.
Okay, thank you.
And just so I'm clear, the course on the conditional 11.
It stated that no more than six customers will be permitted to use the designated smoking
area.
And follow up some following the conversation.
Today is your proposal that no one will be smoking at all.
Yes.
You have signs discouraging the premises?
We have.
There are windows on each odd second window coming down from the outside and the outdoors.
How much space is there for outside diners?
That is six tables out.
So it's based for 1 .8 from the window coming out to two and a half metres long,
which is the length of the premises. Our bill, sorry, our premises.
But in terms of total number of diners, how many spaces are there outside?
Six times four, 24. Top 24.
D
questions of clarification. I will now invite those making representations, Dr. Lili Languio
to address the subcommittee. You have five minutes to speak after which questions may
be asked of you.
I think it was well understood on my end that Regimez is going to have put up the signs
and they will not allow smoking outside and if it is being noticed, they are going to
address it with the customers and if they don't wish to stop smoking, they need to
leave the premises.
So I understood that one.
Thank you.
Okay.
Does the, it just cheques everything Dr. de Leuen
Daniel.
Yeah, I don't have anything else, but I believe when it comes down to the alcohol
consumption, maybe to clarify that.
So my understanding is within insider premises that is going to be allowed during the operational
hours, but not outside.
Am I correct?
Is that the final agreement on that with the alcohol consumption?
I don't understand the question.
So we are talking about alcohol drinking, drinking of alcohol?
Yes.
Which is alcohol consumption.
So is my understanding right that the alcohol consumption inside is going to be allowed
and outside is not going to be allowed,
or that is incorrect.
It's going to be inside and outside.
That is the resume restaurant proposal.
How can we be allowed to open it out inside
in the outdoor cities, if that's what you're asking?
I am asking you to clarify this.
It is both inside, outside?
Outside, yes.
Yeah, because that, you know, we have had, obviously we were not here before, but we
have had issues with the younger generation.
Some of them were residents, some of them were not.
And there were serious altercation in relation to that.
Maybe some alcohol were involved and sometimes not.
So that's where, you know, our concern is coming from.
but I understand the alcohol consumption comes with,
you know, pizza and not separately.
So you are not going to provide any pub services
the two comes together.
That is correct.
We will not be serving any pub serving.
Sorry.
If we could just save questions for,
till Lydia is finished.
Yeah, that's it.
I have finished that said.
Thank you.
Does the subcommittee have any questions in relation to representation?
No further questions. No further questions. Thank you.
Councillor Apps, do you have any questions?
No, Lily, it sounds like it's been reassured on some points. Do you have any remaining concerns?
No, so our residents, what I would like to say, we welcome a new little shop restaurant
in our area.
We just want to make sure that that is not going to disrupt the residential nature of
the area because we are very silent compared to other communities.
We actually know each other not just in my building, the rest of the buildings.
We know we have two other shops.
They are not pit areas.
We never had any issues, nuances with them.
There are no issues with alcohol either.
So we just would like to basically make sure our area remains the same and basically Reginee
is just going to add up and elevate it and not to cause nuances or issues because we
are the residents who are directly impacted by it.
but there are a lot of residents to welcome
that we have a pizza place, they can just walk down,
get a pizza on Friday or so today.
So there are around 1000 residents in the area,
so we are more than capable servicing.
Basically the restaurant is just the restaurant needs
to work with especially 20 enterprise way
because we are the residents above us
to come to terms that they can operate
and also we can actually enjoy the operation
and they can also have the return, the profit, what they want.
And yes, some residents express some concern in relation to alcohol consumption, but I
do understand we need to let them operate.
So if they are happy to agree with us and it seems like they do, there is no smoking
cigarettes.
I think you know with the alcohol uh you know I think hopefully we can strike the balance
that uh you know we agree they can you know serve the alcohol very very responsibly and then you
know the nuances is going to be you know as less as possible for the for the residents
and then I think you know we can make this relationship work very well in the long term.
It really sends the ball. Thanks so much. That was really helpful.
Thank you. Could I just clarify, Lily, with smoking and alcohol, is this just a concern about what may happen or are there existing issues with cigarette smoke wafting into balconies from this premises? I appreciate it's only recently opened. Or is it more of a concern about what may happen?
I think because the residents of the, I'm not sure if the RIA is one of the residents who were on the first, second and third floor.
I know they reported it but they know it's unavoidable, you know the noise, they were not loud.
That's like normal, you know, conversation when you go to the Pits area, you are outside, you have a kid, that's normal conversation.
and obviously we have open balconies so you can hear that but that's something we cannot avoid.
You know with the alcohol consumption people tend to be a lot louder that's also quite normal and
I think the concern is coming from that lot of like babies and new families and kids here who
might need to sleep you know in the afternoon or earlier that night and no right now we had
was so quite normal and I sorted that the restaurant needed to drill and I think we
reported that after 11 until 1 .30 am and that kept up the residents but I think they did
acknowledge that they did apologise to the residents so this kind of you know because
that caused already discomfort with the residents you know they are a little bit you know hesitant
or not that trustworthy or like trustee in that instance, if you know what I mean.
That if we agree, okay, fine, let people have alcohol, but make sure they didn't
responsibly, they are not going to cause any nuance or any problems. To be honest,
that's where it's coming from because if you breach the trust one time, people are going to
be less like trustee according to a new coming restaurant. So I think that's where it is coming
from at the moment. Thank you. Are there any other questions or clarification on anything
that's been stated? I can see no requests for questions or clarification. Thank you.
That now concludes this part of the meeting. The decision reasons and any legal guidance
given during the subcommittee's discussion that has informed that decision will be confirmed
in writing, together with information about any rights of appeal within five working days.
We will now be considering agenda item four, the application relating to the mezzanine.
Thank you to those that attended for the first application. You may now leave the meeting.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you very much. Have a good night.
We will now consider the application for a variation to the premises licence in respect
to the premises known as the mezzanine unit 420 Totterdam Street, London SW 1780 A. And
I now invite the licencing officer to introduce the application.
Thank you, Councillor. Joy Boy Consuelants Limited have applied for a variation to their
premises licence at Mezzanine Unit 420, Totterdown Street, SW 1780A. They're applying to extend
the hours for the sale of alcohol and to extend the hours for the provision of regulated entertainment,
live and recorded music within the premises by one hour on Fridays and Saturdays only.
Appendix B of the report provides the current timings of the activities being applied for
and also the proposed hours.
The application was advertised as required under the legislation,
with site notices, the premises and a newspaper advert.
This resulted in the receipt of three representations from other persons
objecting to the variation.
These representations are the only ones for matter for consideration tonight.
Appendix A to the report lays out the conditions arising from the applicant's operating schedule,
including those agreed with the Metropolitan Police, that's Condition 10,
and the Council's Noise and Nuisance Team, conditions 19 to 30,
which will become additional conditions of the variation if it is granted.
Appendix B to the report lays out the proposed hours for this licence.
Councillors, the options that are open to you tonight when deciding this variation include
granting the application as requested, or modifying the conditions of the licence to alter or omit conditions or add new,
or reject the whole or part of the application.
Councillors, I've laid out the brief facts of this application
and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you.
Thank you. Does the subcommittee have any questions for the licencing officer?
Could you just clarify the proposed hours again for me?
It's on the committee report on the bottom.
them. They're asking for 11 till 2 on Fridays and 11 to 2 on Saturdays.
Okay, thank you. It's in the committee report.
I just want to say for that purpose there's, sorry chair, there's a very helpful breakdown
of the application at the very end of the report part of the report.
Just helpful to understand the different things that they're applying for.
Cass wraps. I just want to say, is it not right, Miss Hopkins, that there's also a request
that over the Christmas period or at other sort of bank holiday periods that there's
additional opening 11 to 2 30 is that correct that's correct
is it um this question for later on but how many other late night venues are
there within the immediate proximity of the venue
i couldn't give you a total but there's there's a lot in the market
there are a lot.
Okay.
Are there any other questions or clarification on anything that has been stated?
As a reminder, both the applicant and representations will have a chance to address this subcommittee
and this should only be where you would like clarification on something stated by the speaker.
I can see no requests for questions or clarification. I will now invite the applicant to address
the subcommittee and you have five minutes to speak after which questions may be asked
to you. Mr Scaravato.
You made it again?
Yeah, Nicolo.
Scaravato, it was correct.
So you have five minutes to speak.
Oh, sorry.
So yeah, I've been speaking with the police and with the Environmental Health Noise Team.
At first my licence was asking to be open until 2 .30 and then all my staff be out by 3 am.
So the police got in touch with me and the department of health noise.
So we agreed to make it a little bit shorter, so rather than 2 .30 to make the music stop at 2 .00.
So at the moment my licence make me run music till 1 .30.
So it would be a simple extra hour.
The extra hour is very important for us just because it will help us to be appealing and
to invite the right DJ and promoter.
And the reason because I think it's very important is because what Maison is trying to do is
bring back decency into the industry.
I do agree 10 -2 -3 and there might be a problem with the alcohol consumption, people being
naughty on the street.
I don't think that just shutting down venues is the answer.
What I think we should do is promoting venues, actually promoting culture, which is to me
British culture is strongly linked to music events.
If you actually look at the history of our venue, we strictly always stick with drum
and bass, techno and house events, just because it's what we're trying to promote.
I also understood some local people down the street like Mr. Patel.
She shared issues with the noise, which I'm terribly sorry.
But I think that sometimes it gets a bit confusing because what the market did was redo the all -outside
area which encouraged people to stay outside.
A lot of these customers, most of them actually not mine because what I did in collaboration
with the market, at 10 p .m., I shut down my daughter goes to the residential area and
there is another doctor goes to the residential area, shut down a midnight.
I have no power over that because it's the main corridor on the other side of the market.
What I did is we put a sign outside that says just leave the residential area, just be quiet.
But also what we do, once a mid -time we shut the door, we let everybody out to the main
street, not on the residential.
And this is why I think it's important that my licence now is 130.
If I lose my licence from 1 .30 to 2 .00 or 2 .30, it won't really affect the area where Mr. Patel lives.
Because people will never go out from there because there is already a door. People will always go to the ice street.
In regards to sound, I've been very, very careful, Mr. Patel, since about a year and a half ago when I heard the first complaint.
So I have a sound decibel reader, but sometimes I myself go on the ice street around midnight
to cheque the sound and make sure it's within the decibel acceptance.
And which it is.
Now I hear it and people might have mentioned, I know about the subwoofer, the actual sound,
the echo outside, even if the decibel is low, you can still hear it.
So what I'm doing now in collaboration, not collaboration, but in agreement to the environmental of health,
I'm covering the whole backside, the one that is going towards your area,
with a wood panel, and then I'm going to cover it with a sound absorbing sponge, the one used for registration studio.
So those sponge, they are made to stop,
so it's a bit odd, but essentially the sound has frequency.
So high pitch has high frequency,
and then you have medium frequency and low frequency.
So the low frequency are the ones that really penetrate
and probably you might be hearing in your bedroom at night,
not the high frequency.
So these sponge are specifically for those.
Again, first of all, I acknowledge there is an issue with sound and the overall area and
I want to be part of the solution, not the problem.
So I am doing that to add extra sound proving.
Half an hour, it means the world for me because I'm losing a lot of parties because they say,
you're betting close 130, it's difficult to sell tickets, it's difficult to promote it.
Yeah, I mean, Mr Patel, I know I received two objections. One was from Mr Patel, which
is serious and the one I consider. I don't know if you really want to
make comment on the other objection I received from Alison.
But the five minutes is now up. Happy to ask that as a follow up question.
Would you like to comment on that representation?
Me?
Yeah.
What representation?
The representation you just referred to.
No, because I know there were two objections.
One was from Mr Patel and the second one was from Allison, who is a trader in the market.
And their accusations were extremely grave and extremely terrible accusations, which
I provide plenty of evidence to go against them. So Mr. Ali is going to accuse my venue to bring
drugs into the market. She said the promoter and the DJ asked her to sell drugs for them.
And then also she said that my customer, and she talked specifically about an event that happened,
my customers spread drinks on her shop and pee on her shop.
Now
Mr. Allison, she's a lovely woman, but she's quite old.
It's very difficult for me to picture
somebody asking her to become a drug dealer. On top of that, she closed her shop at 5 p .m.
In that specific case the event started at 10 p .m.
So there is a five hour window where she wasn't there.
So I don't know how anyone of my customers
could have approached her.
On top of that, I have a CCTV report from Baron,
the manager of the market, who has looked at the camera
and the CCTV shows clearly that the event was well managed
at full security, all are reduced with a body cam.
And then the camera shows that the day after the event,
She came to her shop, she checked the outside shop, it was clean.
Then she went around the market, she grabbed the pint,
and then she threw the pints on her shop.
And then she took a picture, and she said that my customer did that.
And this is on camera, I mean, it's evidence that she fabricated all of them.
There are several traders I spoke with that decided to support me,
and there are statements where they say,
is fabricated, there is not any connexion with masonine and drugs and I always pay a
lot in security. In fact, a normal bar restaurants in the market pay about £40 of security every
week. I pay £540 per week in security. It's almost as much as my rent and I do it because
I know it's very important and valuable. Last thing I would like to add, what was it? She
um sorry oh yeah um another another um over the other storey to me she says a fire hazard
because we closed the back door we close the back door because there is the initial noise
is the is the door that goes to the residential so the sound doesn't go to the residential area
but it's not forever lock there is security with the key we all have the key if we are in there is
fight, it takes one second to go and open the key. Also, why so easy for them to open the key?
Because I pay for security, Mr. Chairman. And one of the security is standing there.
One of the security stands in front of the big door that is closed down. The big door that goes
to the resident chair. And we do that because I generally, I mean, I work there most of the day,
most concern on my health, everything is
covered. That's why we shut the door, because there is danger, because we don't
want to give noise. Is it fire hazard? No, because everybody has the key, every
security has the key for their door. It takes one second to put the door and let
everyone down. On top of that, they don't even know, but on my side, because there
are two exits, on my exit, there is a small door that actually goes to the
gym is locked but there is also a key for that door that will allow you to get out as well so we
even have two exits that we can use during a file now they may argue yeah but what security is not
there security is there because i pay them to be there i pay one security at the door of my venue
to cheque id to everybody i pay one security to be there in that corridor that goes to the
residential area, I pay one security to be at the very front door, the one that goes
to the high street to cheque for what? To cheque the bags, to cheque for weapons, to stop people
with tracksuit and things like that.
I just see, thank you. Do the subcommittee have any questions for the applicants? Councillor
and this goes to the very heart of the questions that are often posed to licencing committees,
which is how do we balance, you know, supporting a night time economy, supporting a cultural
economy with the needs of residents. So this is absolutely at the heart of it. I was interested
in some of your proactive steps to kind of try and mitigate any impact on the local community
as a venue, do you yourself, you know, as the person ultimately responsible, do you look at exit times, like when people, when it's closing time, do you sometimes go out and monitor what the situation is and try and get a sense of how well managed the exit is, and how that process of people exiting the venue goes, and if it's smooth, because obviously people are going to drink a fair amount, and they probably are noisier than they would be at other times.
So have you sort of gone out yourself to see how that period operates?
And do you look at how you can alleviate any impact on the local community?
Absolutely. So when it comes to getting out from the mazinine to the high street,
there is literally for security almost in every corner, so security just point them out. Once they
to the high street we simply tell them don't stand in the front, go to the station if you
need to leave which is the same Broadway station, the underground and order line.
When it comes to the residential area where Miss Patel lives, I can't really do much because
my party normally starts around the 9, 10 and midnight the door is already shut so no one
is ever going out from the area. But I know there are people there, Ms Patel, I know there are
people, but then most of them are people that buy the can of drinks from the flash and they sit
there and they drink. Sometimes they even play the speakers because when I leave at 2am after my
shift, I walk there to get my line back and I can hear them, I can see them. I know there are people
standing there making groups, drinking, smoking, but they're not my customers, I can guarantee you
those are the same junkie, they always been there and since they redo their outside every
day they even make it nicer for them to hang out there. But it's just a group of junk, it has
nothing to do with my customer because again we push them on the ice -flakes immediately.
Thank you. Can I answer the bottom?
My question has been answered. Thank you.
Okay. So you just had your hand up. That's why I went to you.
And I have a question. Just to clarify, in the objection from
the other trader, there's a reference to 200 people
converging on a Friday night, but I know your licence has a
It's just capacity of 100 and there's no proposal to change that. Is that correct?
Yeah, can I speak?
And have there been any issues with overcrowding or
interventions from the police on that at all?
I'm glad you mentioned facts speak louder than anything else. No, never. Never had a
fact because there is a zero tolerance policy. You might have one, you might
found one complaining about my security being too tough on people but we need to use
an iron fist to maintain the venue safety. You can even cheque out a Google review and
see how girls have commented and say it's a safe venue because we also have an
in Africa policy. If a guy is looking at a girl, he doesn't even need to touch. She's
uncomfortable. We kick him out straight away. Referring to the question about the police,
we never had fight, overcrowded 200 people. It was all fabricated. The reason why this
trader went nuts, got very upset, especially them, is because the business for certain
traders being very slow down.
Oh yeah, this promoter, they are doing amazingly in TikTok.
They do a video and they do 200 ,000 views.
Okay, they say it's 200 people party, but they weren't 200 people, it's just marketing
because what they did, they did a pre -party in the castle and then they said, they're
going to be 200 people in my venue.
There is no way that I have 200 people in my venue, can possibly feed them.
And probably the mason will collapse.
Plus, my security is not a joke security.
The security does VIP and very important people.
He's a person that travels to Russia and to America for jobs.
If I tell the staff or let them in, the staff will never let them in.
This security is not really controlled by me.
I have a contract with them when I ask him to keep the venue safe.
And they do, they know how many people there are.
We have the counting part, we count how many people there are.
Once we reach capacities, one in, one out, they said 200 people because the party of
the castle was getting big and they just wanted to create some hype.
But it was all fabricated and the CCTV proved it.
On top of that, maybe let's say there were 150 people coming from the castle.
Yeah, 100 people were amazing and the other 50 people weren't allowed in.
So they were just spreading them in the market.
And this is also why the market manager support me so well, because we're creating business,
we're just creating something valuable for people.
You know, we're doing an amazing gouge event, a techno event, we're giving space to young
DJ.
A lot of these promoters actually even make a little bit money out of it.
And people get excited because there is nothing like that in the area.
It's beautiful.
Thank you Nico.
You're welcome.
Does the subcommittee have any other questions for the applicants?
I can see no questions from the subcommittee.
Are there any other questions or clarification on anything that's been stated?
As a reminder, the representations will have a chance to address the committee
and this should only be where you would like clarification on something that has been stated by the speaker.
The only thing I would like clarification is that you can't state that people outside
of the market aren't attributed to you as I can't state that they are attributed to you.
People can walk around the road and can linger there.
So I only just wanted to make that statement in regard to that.
I can't blame you.
you can't say that they aren't yours.
Thank you.
And now invite those making representations,
Ms. Patel, to address the subcommittee
and you have five minutes to speak
after which questions may be asked of you.
Yep, sure.
I do have a written statement, so apologies.
I realise, Niccolo, a lot of things might be answered,
but I do have a bit of pushback
and apologies I am looking to this side of the screen.
So good evening, I'm Rhea, and thank you for the opportunity to talk today.
Hopefully you've all received my evidence document, and I hope you've been able to view the photos and the footage,
but I would like to use today to kind of address the real world impact that this has had on me, a resident that lives close by.
I do realise this is just a small part of the problem and I appreciate, Nicolo, that you are building a business that means a lot to you.
But unfortunately, my case still stands that if we extend your licencing hours, it's going to be common practise for other bars, clubs within the area to be able to do the same.
and it would just exacerbate an issue that's already existing and that you have already
stated exists because you've seen it. So the reason I'm objecting is simple. From my experience
living nearby, this application doesn't just extend opening hours, it extends the period of
late night disturbance that residents already face. For me the issue isn't what happens inside
of the mezzanine or what Nicolo does, it's the dispersal afterwards and the impact of intoxicated
members of the public lingering outside of the market and lingering outside of the entrance of
the mezzanine, which I appreciate is closed. When people leave they don't go home, they stay outside
talking, smoking, waiting for taxis and are intoxicated so that level of communication
that happens within the group is much louder as they can't tell. At 12, 1 or 2 o 'clock in the
residents. Conversations that don't stand out in the early hours of the evening definitely
stand out in that time, especially when people are expecting to sleep and especially when
the surrounding area is quiet. This isn't a one -off event. It happens often enough that
I have reported these late night noise disturbances and antisocial behaviour to the ones with
council and have done this on several occasions over the last year and I have formally escalated
this to Ward Councillor Anna -Marie Critchard and I have the email thread if that needs to be seen.
I didn't start collecting video evidence because I was expecting to be speaking here, I never
thought I would be here and the reason I have been doing it is because the issues keep happening
and I keep being told and passed around different people, the police, the council, the noise team
and therefore started collecting evidence that spans over 15 months, but this issue has been lasting longer than that.
And I appreciate that might be before mezzanine's time.
Sorry, bear with me.
So my most recent recording was taken on the 11th of July at 2 .32 a .m. and this is less than two weeks ago,
and it proves that this is an ongoing problem.
I've also included a video of a late night altercation that happened outside of the market
last year and I'm not suggesting this was a result of the mezzanine but it just showcases
that this pedestrianised area outside of the market and the mezzanine is a late night noise
buzzle funnel and a hot spot for disturbance and extending these licencing hours will not
improve that situation and will just make the situation last longer into the early hours
of the morning.
I have read supporting statements from the market manager and fellow traders and I'm pleased to hear that the mezzanine is a well -managed business inside the market walls, but again, CCT footage, trader statements only look inwards and don't actually address the evidence that I have that affects residents and is happening outwards.
An exemplary indoor operation cannot change the physical law of outdoor acoustics at 2 .30am,
nor can it grant private security guards the legal right to police a public highway.
I understand that Niccolo has security, but the minute those people leave the premises,
his security have no law on getting them to move.
So it's kind of a grey area of people lingering and nothing really being able to be done about
without getting the police involved. And my argument is that if we need to get police involved,
then this is an issue that's already happening and extending these hours is just going to make
this last longer into the night, last until potentially 3 .30am, not leaving a very long
window for people to sleep because market traders in the morning start unpacking, start offloading
from 7am and I know ones with council particularly want to protect sleep and people being able
to expect a certain level of noise after 11pm to 7am and I think the current licence and
the proposed licence does not help that issue.
Thank you for listening.
Please, I would ask to refuse the application.
Thank you. Does the subcommittee have any questions for Ms Patel?
Councillor Apps?
Yeah, I just wanted to pick up on the issue and I'm sorry to hear that you've had distressing
incidents, Ms Patel. That's bad to hear. And obviously, we want, as you say, we want our
isn't really well. But you said about the, you know, if we give a licence to this, then
it just kind of increases the pressure generally. But as we've been advised by Mr. Bishop, we're
not actually allowed to take into account other licences when we're, we have to take
every case on its merit. So I wondered if you, if there was any reason why you thought
it would sort of build a culture of that. I know there is, well am I not allowed to
reference another licence or another location or can I reference one? I don't really know.
Mr Bishop. Yeah, thank you. Yes, of course you're allowed to reference the premises nearby if you
want to. Obviously the committee is balancing the interests of the parties in reaching their
decision. And obviously, what the committee is also going to be considering is whether
the mezzanine is responsible for the things that you are experiencing, because that has
to focus as part of their decision making. But yes, you're welcome to mention something
else if you need to.
And well, there are other locations that are nearby. So there's a secret bar and I'm not
particularly sure what their licencing hours are, but that is directly located on Totterdown
street and I feel that could contribute to the noise. If this gets past, Secret Bar could instantly
also apply. And I also just want to state I realise that the mezzanine is one in a sea of different
clubs and just my case is that extending these hours is just going to make an existing problem
worse and we haven't fixed this existing problem. It's still an issue and it's spanned 15 months.
Thank you. Councillor Botti.
Hello, you practically answered my last question. You said it's been going on for 15 months.
So is that since the Tata Down Street market has been refurbished, so to speak? Was it going on
before the refurbishment?
So documented evidence that I have spans the 15 months,
but this has been happening particularly since COVID,
since people been wanting to congregate, drink,
but laws didn't really allow them.
Again, sorry to reference another licence,
I don't mean to distract,
but the Secret Bar contributed a lot to that.
And then that brought in a lot of different clubs
coming to the market.
So this has been an ongoing issue since 2020 and noticeably it's been picking up since
then with disturbances happening every week, specifically on the weekends.
And have, do you notice that when the market is closed, when they close in the night, do
noticed that people come around from the front and move into Totterdam?
Well at that time it is very early hours of the morning so I'm not asleep enough.
I'm asleep but I am woken up by it, hence the video footage that shows people lingering outside
that area. But again I can't attribute it to a specific place.
Yeah okay thank you.
That's from Mr Bishop.
Yes, it's just a sort of comment, I suppose, to help Ms Patel. Obviously, if the secret
bar is directly involved, or you see things that come from them that cause you problems,
then you can seek a review of their licence, which would then come to this committee for
it to consider and maybe change the hours or whatever it may be or impose further conditions
or even suspend a licence at the worst case, or even potentially revoke the licence. So,
you can do that sort of thing where you've got direct evidence of problems being caused by
particular premises. You can definitely do that. I just thought I'd remind you, or tell you.
Thank you. Yeah, this is all very new to me. I'm not familiar with these processes at all,
so I appreciate that comment. Again, I don't have evidence. I just know that there's a problem
there and I really I can't specifically attribute it to anything due to the sheer amount that exists
within that very localised region. Is that premises on your side on the side of as opposed to the side
of where the mezzanine is? I think both mezzanine and the secret bar are on the same side or correct
me if I'm wrong. Oh I wouldn't know okay thank you.
My understanding is the door opens from the mezzanine
into Toss Down Street.
The main door to Tea Market.
Then they're both on the same side.
I just have one question,
which was whether this problem is confined only to Friday
and Saturday evenings,
or whether it's a problem seven days a week.
I don't have the days listed in that document, do I?
I would say it's most noticeable on the weekends obviously, but it can happen throughout the week
but I would say refer to my evidence and just look at the days there.
Thank you. I would also just like to note on the violent altercation as well,
which is part of that pedestrianised area.
If I think it's one of the second videos within the document
with a resident arguing
with a member of the public drinking,
this did happen last year during the trial period
of the pedestrianisation.
But again, like another cause for concern of public nuisance
antisocial behaviour, and there's consistent evidence of it.
And again, I'm not opposed to the mezzanine, Niccolo, I'm sorry, this is not personal at
all.
It really is.
Extending this is just going to make it worse.
I feel like I've said that 70 times, but it is.
Thank you.
Are there any other questions from the subcommittee for those making representations?
questions.
No, but can we say thank you for making the time?
Are there any other questions of clarification on anything that's been stated?
And Nicolas, you have your hand up.
Yeah, again, Mr Patel, same wise, I'm very sorry to your experience in that and I don't
want to be part of the problem.
I would like to bring you up to, I only open Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
And Thursday night we never do a club night.
I just open the bar because my chef makes tacos and burrito.
So he needs the bar open, but we don't even play music.
On the market exit, my understanding is actually,
Mezzanine is on the side where La Roy is, it's close to La Roy.
At 10pm we shut down.
It's likely that most of the words coming out come from other traders.
Again, you're right.
I say those people are not from my venue but I cannot be sure because I'm not there all the time.
In the same way you cannot be sure they're actually from my venue.
The last point I want to make is that my venue is actually making people stay inside the market.
People that go to other bars, they grab a drink and go out for a smoke.
And you notice that they all have glasses. I have a white paper cup for my spiritual mix to identify my glasses.
Since a few months ago I had some issues with other traders. I bought a white paper cup to identify them.
Mezzanine, I think it keeps people inside, but again, I understand I can make up your mind.
And again, I'm sorry for, if that's disturbing your sleep. I can only guarantee you that I will do my best when I kick people out.
Try them to leave and go to Broadway station. But another reason, because I don't think they actually are my cousin, because when people leave from my venue, they normally go to Broadway station, that is on the left.
Do you have any questions?
No.
Okay, thank you.
Are there any other questions or clarification on anything that has been stated?
Can I ask Guy a quick question?
Because I feel like you've given me some advice in regard to the secret bar.
Do you have any advice, again, if this is not relevant, sorry, to the pedestrianised area and who I can contact about that?
and if this needs to be taken elsewhere please can I get your contact details or can I talk to someone about that please?
That would be, well is that an area that's licenced?
It's owned by the council.
Okay so you want to talk to...
You want to talk to Councillor Ethan Brooks.
Okay thank you.
There you go.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Thanks a lot for your help.
Thanks a lot for your help.
That concludes this part of the meeting.
The decision reasons that any legal guidance given during the subcommittee's discussion
that has informed that decision will be confirmed in writing, together with information about
any rights of appeal within five working days.
Members of the licencing subcommittee, the Democratic Services Officer and Legal Advisor,
we will now join the separate confidential meeting room to make the decision.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.