General Purposes Committee - Monday 1 December 2025, 7:30pm - Wandsworth Council Webcasting

General Purposes Committee
Monday, 1st December 2025 at 7:30pm 

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Okay, good evening everybody.
My name is Rex Osborne.
I'm Councillor Rex Osborne.
I represent Tooting Broadway Ward on this council and this evening I am chair of General
Purposes Committee.
The clerk will be handling some, first of all the webcast between them, but in addition we have not exactly apologies, but one of the members of the committee will be attending virtually.
And that will be handled from this end of the table.
So welcome to the meeting everybody. I'm not going to get everybody to go round
and introduce themselves. I'm going to ask you if you speak then please say who
you are and which ward you represent and so on. And I'm going to run through the
agenda from that point on. So my first item on the agenda tonight is the

1 Minutes - 14th May 2025

minutes of the meeting on the 14th of May. Is everyone happy with those
minutes? Can I sign them as a correct record? Very good. That's done. Are there

2 Declarations of Interests

any declarations of interests this evening? Anyone with a pecuniary
interest or anything of the kind? No, there doesn't seem to be. So in that case
I can go straight to the agenda item that we have this evening, which is a

3 Change to Polling Place and Election Update (Paper No. 25-393)

change to polling place and election update. It's paper number 25 -393
for anyone who's going through the pack, the agenda pack, and it's pages 3 to 12
that. Can I ask, is there anybody with a point of view on, no first beg your
pardon, I'd like to ask Mr. Smith at the end of the table to introduce the paper
for us please. Thank you chair. So first of all can I just say I'm really sorry
for keeping you all from your advent calendars this evening. So as you will
No, this committee is responsible for the designation of polling stations.
So this is substantively why this paper is with you.
And I thought it would be prudent to give you an update on where we are in terms of
implementing the recommendations from last year's report into the Putney Cat, which are
in the paper you've got.
So the polling station change has been forced upon us.
The longstanding Southfields Academy have rented out the space that we've traditionally
used.
We have tried to negotiate to be able to use that space for the one day, but we have not
been able to do that.
And we have sought alternatives in the surrounding area, as you can see in the paper.
And having not got anywhere with those, we are proposing that we use the very well -known
in the local area, St. Barnabas Church, which is used already as a polling station for one
the polling districts and is conveniently located for the electors in SFC, which were
previously at the Southfields Academy.
As it states, it's essentially within the same walking distance they have to cross Merton
Road, but there is a zebra crossing exactly at the point where they would normally turn
into the Aspire -Stokes -Southfields Academy area.
So that's been agreed.
I've assessed the building.
It's perfectly suitable.
It's got enough space for us and yeah, so I'm just asking you to approve that recommendation really
Okay, thank you any comments anybody on the paper all right, I'll take councillor Graham first
So yes, I mean we have a few questions to follow up on the the recommendations on the review
But just on the change to the polling place
Although it is not ideal, obviously, to have to do this, we recognise the arguments about
practicalities involved and also that for a decent number of people in that polling
district, they would actually be closer than it was before.
So we are happy to support that change, noting that efforts have been made to find alternatives,
but they unfortunately are not available.
Did I see an indication from Councillor Henderson?
I may have misread the gesture.
No, okay, forgive me, sorry.
Okay, Councillor Hedges.
Thank you, Chair.
Councillor Hedges, Conservative Councillor in Ballem.
Quick question, thank you very much for your report.
Just a quick question about the more, the broader aspect to it.
So more broadly, does the Council have a strategy beyond 2026 to ensure that these polling places
remain accessible, thinking about mobility, are they safe and fairly distributed across
all the wards?
Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor.
Yes, so this committee approved last year a four -year term.
We are statutorily required to do a review of all polling stations and that's really is to focus on the most convenient
location for venues
including absolutely accessibility
Across the whole borough what we have done is practise here since I've been here is every year
We'll do review after an election anyway, even if we're not statutorily required so after
The elections next May and I would expect to bring something here if there is anything that's left out that
where we can improve, and obviously this particular one will be kept under review.
So that all venues, all polling district lines are constantly kept under review by me and
my team, and then we would bring them to this committee to have a look to see what changes
we might want to propose.
Okay.
Any other remarks, anybody?
No?
Could I move to a conclusion on the paper in that case?
On that aspect, on the first.
I think perhaps we ought to take it in two parts.
You can, yeah, yeah, of course, of course.
But someone has to suggest it first.
We're very happy to approve a recommendation one, and if you want to take the vote on that now, that's fine.
But we wish to discuss the aspects in two.
The note?
Yes, the note on the recommendation.
Okay, so you want me to take them one at a time, yeah?
That's the proposal.
I see no problem with that.
I can take a vote now on approving the polling station, which is what we're asked to do.
All those in favour of approving the polling station arrangement.
All those against.
Any abstentions?
Clear majority in favour of the approval.
So, if I then move on to a discussion about item two, which you seem to want, Councillor
Graham, is that right?
Go on then, tell us.
We won't take up too much time, don't worry.
And we're quite certain that, well, we're quite certain that given the sensitivity around
these issues that there will be every effort made to ensure that they're not repeated and
we're confident that they won't be.
I think in particular it's helpful to have the as a matter of policy going
forward that the totals will be provided at declaration and that in particular
the verification totals will be provided at that stage in the count to those that
are there as a matter of course which I think would have also been a safeguard
to prevent what happened happening at the last general election count. I just
There's one aspect that isn't covered here, which is whether a paper exercise will be
conducted in addition to the spreadsheets or we are still going to be entirely reliant
on the spreadsheets.
Because it's possible, I recognise it for the purposes of checking actually and also
for the purposes of presenting and displaying and printing off results and putting it on
the website and the rest of it, it's essential to have those spreadsheets filled in.
But it is also possible to do the process manually, which then acts as a cheque to the
one and to the other.
And so will there be a manual process conducted as a backup to the spreadsheet in essence?
Okay.
Thank you, Councillor.
Well, essentially, in the process at the local elections, which is entirely different, as
you all appreciate, from the parliamentary, because there are up to, for three member
awards three votes that can be cast.
So it's not a simple question of adding up all the ballot papers and knowing that everything's been counted.
You have to have a process whereby you account for all the votes and not everybody uses all their votes.
So the system that we used in 2022, which I believe other candidates and
agents are really happy with, is very transparent.
So the reality is that actually the local government council is kind of hybrid.
So it is very paper -based.
You and all observers that are there, it's manual, it's done, it's all in paper, but
yes, that information then is placed into a spreadsheet because it needs to be aggregated
up.
It wouldn't really be possible to have that running alongside as a purely manual system.
But the spreadsheets themselves will be, you know, transparent.
The manual aspect is completely transparent.
So there are kind of cheques. It's not us running off and doing something in the background.
It's all completely open for everybody to scrutinise as the process goes on throughout the night.
Do you want to come back on that very briefly because I've got Councillor Lawless coming in.
Okay, so thank you for that and actually I have to say the system that you introduced
in 2022 for split votes and dealing with those was by far the best system I've ever seen
anywhere and an enormous improvement on the old way of doing things.
And it was very transparent and very clear, and it dramatically reduced the possibility
for error.
And you're quite right that that is an effective manual process, and you get a manual total
anyhow you want.
And I'm not arguing against using the spreadsheets to collate everything else, but that is an
example of where doing it manually gives you some assurance that what's in the spreadsheets
is right.
And I think that's what we're driving at.
There was one other aspect that was picked up in the report,
but originally isn't here, which was sort of the, in effect,
was a criticism of the previous chief executive
for a slightly hands -off approach
to his responsibilities.
Obviously, we now have a new acting chief executive.
So I just wanted to cheque that.
I mean, I suspect given what I know of him,
he would be more hands -on anyway.
But I wanted to cheque that he was aware of those findings and was suitably engaged in
the planning for the election process.
Thank you.
Yes, absolutely.
And we have an election programme board in place now, which has met already about four times,
which I have to say is a record for this stage in the process.
So and not surprising given what happened.
But yeah, I mean, Mr. Travers is very engaged and you know is absolutely aware and as you will all know has lots of experience in this
field as well both good and bad and so
You know, we are we are absolutely between all of the senior people involved in ensuring that this goes incredibly well
Are already meeting and absolutely alert to all the issues
Councillor Lawless
Thank you very much.
Thanks huge thanks to you and the team for everything you guys do at elections.
I've been a counting agent, a candidate and an agent for political party as well.
And I know election nights and the run -up are very, very stressful.
So please pass on our thanks.
With the extra cheques that have been put in place and the process on the night or at the
count, do we expect the declarations to take a little bit longer?
Do we know maybe how much longer?
And has there been a discussion about whether or not the count should be overnight or the
following day. Thanks, Councillor. So to answer the second part of the question,
yes, I understand those discussions have taken place and the count will be overnight, as
is usual here and in many places. In terms – sorry, Councillor, what was the first
part of your... Yeah, so, well, I mean, potentially, but I have to say, I think, what would, because
of the way that the local count is different to the parliamentary, what I would say in
future parliamentary declarations may be a little later, but the local ones, a lot
of the safeguards and cheques are already in place because it's a much more detailed and
complex count anyway. So I think if we are to verbally declare, if you like, the verification
as we go through the night, then yes, I think there will be a delay. It will be a bit longer,
a bit later than it was in 2022. But if people are happy with the verification statements
just being handed out as they are ready, because obviously there's 22, so that's a lot of information
not a paper, then you know with two of the key agents then I think that we shouldn't
drift much beyond what we did last time. Which hopefully will be acceptable to everybody
because you know we don't need to be there any longer than necessary.
Councillor Corner. Thank you chair, Councillor Matt Corner at
Nine Elms Ward. I've just got a question around paragraph six on page nine. It says that figures
will be shared with candidates and agents at various stages.
When we previously discussed the report, I think there was a discussion around them not
just being given the verification totals but also being allowed to inspect.
Thanks, Cas.
I have to say I don't recall any discussion around inspecting spreadsheets.
But what we have agreed is also in that paragraph is that we will for the first time here give running box totals.
So we won't have to wait until the entire ward has been verified.
We will actually give you the verified totals as we go, which should hopefully add us a cheque for that.
Councillor Grinston, please.
Just sort of following on with Councillor Laudens's question, my impression is, or my suspicion is, that actually this could be an awful lot more complex as an election this time,
because of the sheer number of candidates that I think are going to be coming forward, and that presumably that's likely to lead to a lot more split ballot papers.
Just some assurance that your team are ready for that.
I absolutely think we should count on the night.
I think it's a great occasion.
It's very exciting and I think it would be a great shame to lose that.
But I think it is quite possible this could be the most complex count you've ever had to deal with.
And I'm assuming your team are up and ready for that.
Thanks, Councillor.
Yes, short answer, yes.
I think you're right, I think we have been looking at that ourselves, that there's a
good chance that we may have more parties standing, that we may have more split votes,
and we are absolutely designing our processes and the next several months around that possibility.
Councillor Graham.
Yes, I mean, I second Councillor Grimson's views on counting overnight.
having experienced recently verifying on the night,
having to go away and then come back for a count,
it's just painful for everybody concerned
and it's much better to do it and get it over with,
but do it accurately, which I think this is
what is intended to do.
Just on Councillor Kaulner's point
about examining spreadsheets,
I think the point is if we are given,
if the agents and the candidates are given
the information and data as it emerges on the tables,
we can effectively put it into our own spreadsheet
and then we don't need to see what you've got
because we've already got the elements
and we can see that it's correct.
I think the problem is where there are elements
of the data that we can't see
and then if we're having to put blind faith
in your spreadsheets being correct,
obviously that's more troubling.
And I think hopefully with what you said,
that won't be the case and actually
we don't need to cheque your spreadsheets
because we can sort of cheque them ourselves.
Yes, I agree and I think that's what the system
Certainly in May 26 will do I think you will you will be able to count alongside us and
And get all the information that we're able to give you as we go and we'll all end up in the same place probably I
Have council a Henderson next
Thank You chair
Graham Henderson from
Hampton
in appendix to
Richmond wasn't one of the councils that we compared to.
Given there's a shared staffing arrangements,
Corrales, I presume their arrangements are broadly
similar to ours in terms of staffing per ward.
But I certainly do agree that the count this time
could certainly be rather more complex.
I suppose I'm really asking for assurance that there will be sufficient staff to effectively
staff to elections.
So it's only being sort of grateful for that.
In terms of inspecting the spreadsheets, I just wondered if you have any ideas off the
headers do at what point of a likely to be shown to candidates and agents.
I mean, clearly it would be disruptive to the count if any candidate could just simply
come up and ask to see the spreadsheet at any particular point.
Thanks.
Thanks, Councillor.
On the first point, we didn't go to Richmond as part of the benchmarking because in some ways it felt they were too close.
Because we know what they're doing, so it would have felt like a bit of a cheat.
And Richmond are actually adopting our count process for 2026 themselves.
So they're going to be remembering what we do.
So their staffing levels, how they actually manage that process will be the same as us.
And hopefully you can see from the benchmark that we did that we are very much aligned
with most of the other boroughs in London as well.
So the amount of resource we put in these things is up there with very best practise.
So hopefully that's kind of okay.
In terms of the spreadsheets, are you asking about seeing the spreadsheets as they are
being dealt with on the night?
or are you seeing them in advance to be assured that they're correct?
In terms of seeing the spreadsheets, at what point would you envisage showing candidates
the spreadsheets?
Well, ordinarily we wouldn't.
So I'm not sure that has been envisaged.
So if that's something that there's a clamour for people to actually see or desire to see
the spreadsheets, and that's something I'll need to take back to the returning officer.
We'd have to think about how that would play in, but I think, coming back to Councillor
Grant's point, that normally the parties will have their own spreadsheets, and as long as
we're giving you the data so you can populate yours as we're populating ours, we ought to
end up in the same place.
And obviously, if one set of spreadsheets seems very different, then we'd obviously
then have to go and look at that on the night and then we would probably be in
a position to sort of share a bit more closely.
Can I just add on that matter of how much we are in step with those other
mentioned boroughs and their election officers. Mr. Smith is too modest to say
but I'm not. Mr. Smith trained most of the election officers in the other
There will be a consensus on how that team operates across London.
I have got Councillor Hedges next.
Mr Smith, I was going to ask you about training.
You say the team is responsible for data entry on the night, will be fully trained up.
Can I ask how many people will that be on the night?
And is it literally just an Excel, advanced Excel course working well under pressure,
attention to detail training? Just keen to understand a bit more about that. Thank you.
Thank you, Councillor. Yes, essentially it is, because it is Excel -based.
But it will obviously be locked down and it's going to be checked by the, you know, Section 151 Officer and her team.
So there will be lots of people checking it.
But the team that will be doing the data entry,
we will have, as we did last time,
we have 11 people doing that,
and they're all doing it in twos,
and they were broken down into the three ways
in which our count separates.
They will all have a senior officer
overseeing all of that as well.
So, and the way that the system's built is,
if it's wrong, it's flagged up straightaway,
because everything has to be right,
because we know what we're expecting
at each part of the process in terms of,
we know we've got 20 ballot papers,
and we know therefore they must equal a certain number because of how we organise it.
So yeah, there will be lots of people trained in advance with people supervising on the
night, but essentially yes, it's just showing them where and how to input data into a spreadsheet.
Councillor Lawless.
Thank you.
Just to clear up the questions about spreadsheets and tables and what we get on the night, I
I think from memory, the discussion that we had previously was that if any people or counsellors
or agents want to come and cheque the spreadsheets in advance, in the weeks, months before, they're
happy to.
I think that's what you offered.
But on the night, obviously, I imagine it'd be chaos to have 100 candidates coming up
and asking you to see formulas and stuff.
But what will be passed on the night would be more like a printed out table showing ballot
the box numbers and totals, is that right?
Yes, certainly for the verification, yes.
And we are happy to share and show the process
for the spreadsheets so you can understand
how they work in advance if anyone wanted to.
We wouldn't have them, the problem,
and it's in here somewhere, is what we can't do
is actually build them properly
until after the closing nominations,
because it's all driven by where candidates
appear on the ballot paper, so we need to make sure
that we're copying into the right place.
So it wouldn't be weeks and months in advance,
but they're only designed after the 9th of April
when the closing nominations takes place.
But you're right, yeah.
I mean, it would be a bit too chaotic to do
anyone who wanted to come up and start looking on the line.
I'm not sure that would be sensible and necessary.
Councillor Graham.
I just wanted to concur again with that.
I think it's entirely unnecessary
and it would cause chaos to have people
trying to get the other side of the tables
and into the middle trying to inspect computers and all
the rest of it.
As long as the individual bits of data
are released as they're available,
we can do on our side exactly what you're doing on your side.
There is no need for us to see the spreadsheet.
If we come to a different title, we can flag that,
and you can cheque whether there's an issue.
So I'm entirely relaxed about that.
There was one other question I wanted to ask, though,
which was my reaction to this happening in the first place
was not to think it was a reflection, a poor reflection on the Council so much as to think
that if it could happen here, it could happen anywhere, because I know how conscientious
and thorough the process has been, and since you've arrived at the way that you've made
those processes operate.
And so therefore, my concern was that not only do we implement these lessons here, but
we make sure that the Electoral Commission is ensuring that the same lessons are passed
on to others. So I just wondered if the Electoral Commission has taken up some of these points
to ensure that other councils around the country are taking similar steps to avoid a similar
problem recurring in the future.
Actually can I answer that? Because after the Maugham report, I wrote to the Electoral
Commission with a copy of the report suggesting that several of the items in the report should
be adopted nationally or inviting the Electoral Commission to see if they could adopt them
nationally.
They sent me back a very polite letter.
They didn't commit themselves one way or the other, but they welcomed the correspondence
from us.
That sounds very much like the Electoral Commission and I think, and this is not a criticism of
you because you did exactly the right thing, but I think perhaps we should have another
go to remind them of the fact that there are these things and perhaps to update them on
how we've taken our process because this will happen somewhere else if we don't, if the
electoral commission doesn't take it seriously.
If the committee wants me to, I'm happy to write to the electoral commission again.
Yeah, all right, I'll do that.
Councillor Grimston.
Sorry, I should have said Councillor Grimston, West Hill Ward.
There's a slight paradox, I think, about this that we saw at the general election, that
it was only because the number of votes didn't matter that this skipped through.
If it had been a close result, it would have been noticed and picked up.
The fact that it was a very – on that occasion was a very heavy result, meant that it wasn't
seen through.
So in a sense, it could only happen if it didn't matter that it happened.
Of course it matters that we get things accurate for things, but in terms of the overall result,
I wonder what the single thing you're most afraid might happen on the night that could
actually have a serious response beyond the embarrassment of getting things wrong?
Having lots of very popular independent candidates is such as our biggest problem because you
can't use block votes.
So, I mean, but joking aside, actually, that thing will be the biggest challenge because
it will have a massive effect on time, will be if there are lots of parties that aren't
putting down a full slate and if there are lots of split votes, which will be in the
gift of the electorate.
Other than that, no.
I mean, there isn't anything in the Senate because we are well prepared.
We've got I've got great team. We've supported by lots of good people very comfortable
We'll be able to do our job as well as we always have done except for that one
setback last year
Counsellor apps
Counsellor apps shafts were in Queenstown Ward
This conversation is reminding me a bit of after a car hit me more actually a driver hit me from behind when I was on
My bike I became very nervous at junctions, but not very nervous anywhere else on the road
which I probably should have been.
And we're very focused at the moment on the count,
but there are obviously other aspects of the polling day that can go wrong.
And I suppose I'm looking for assurance that you've looked at the other aspects as well,
things like making sure that all the voters are properly registered,
making sure that we're making sure as many people as possible are registered,
making sure that postal votes are processed,
making sure that there aren't any mix -ups with the registration on the day at polling stations, which has happened before.
So I guess I'm asking, are your processes as thorough for other aspects as they are on the polling night itself?
Absolutely, thanks, Councillor.
I mean, the rest of my team and my work has not been distracted by this.
This has been, obviously, unfortunate, but yeah, I mean, obviously,
our focus on the count is to reassure all of you that the count will go really well,
but everything else will go very well as well as it always has done, and we are working
really hard to make – we actually published the register today.
It's in good shape.
We are – we know we've got communication plans in place.
We are doing lots of work around making sure everybody who wants to vote can, that they
can vote by the most convenient way that they wish to, whether that be in a polling station.
We have lots of stuff around accessibility.
If you look on our website, there's lots of new stuff on there around promoting poster
for those for whom that most convenient.
So yeah, we haven't taken our eye off any other balls whatsoever.
Oh, Councillor Ireland.
Yes, Angela Ireland, West Hill Ward.
I know what you've said about you won't have a chance to finalise the spreadsheets until
all the candidates are declared, but it would be reassuring that simple things like making
sure the cells can only accept whole numbers and that the columns crosscast
the row and there's like a checksum so that the totals equal the number of bits
of paper that came out that sort of stuff be good to have that sort of
assurance I'm sorry I hope you don't think that's insulting no no it's
totally understandable given what happened last year but yeah I mean
rest assured absolutely those things are built into this bit into this
particular spreadsheet and and they will be checked by lots of other people
outside of my office, there'll be several eyes on it.
All the people that have all the skills around how to lock down and ensure bells and whistles
and colours and all these things that can act as additional cheques will be implemented for
these.
Okay, we've had a good round of discussion.
Can I just cheque that because Councillor Jeffries is in the remote station that he's not waving
at me and asking to come in?
No, okay.
Or Councillor Paul, I missed you or anything?
Okay.
In that case, I will move to a vote on the recommendations of the second part, item two,
noting the update that's in appendix one.
Can I see all those in favour of noting appendix one?
All those against?
Any abstentions?
Overwhelmingly carried.
Thank you very much, everybody.
Thank you for everything this evening.
You've got a point of order.
Yes, and it's a minor point but obviously, I mean, this discussion has now actually
gone on for a while but it would have been perfectly possible given the fact
that general purposes now is not having extensive agenda items if it has them
at all to revert to our previous practise of holding it off to the finance committee
which would therefore for at least most of the people in the room,
favours having to come out on two separate nights in the same week.
I'm just wondering, and it's not a criticism because I realise why it was set up
and so it's not criticising this time.
I'm just saying if there's an awareness that say a small, relatively small matter
is to come to general purposes in the future,
could we look to schedule that general purposes committee
to follow a finance committee if that is practicable at the time?
I'm not quite sure what the ins and outs of it are.
I mean, I've got nothing against considering it, but at the moment this is what we've
got.
Are you bursting to come in on this point of order?
It's obviously, apart from Malcolm, only three of us are on the finance committee.
Okay, hang on a second.
Hang on a second.
Councillor Ireland?
Apart from Malcolm not being on the Finance Committee, only Sara and I are on the Finance Committee.
Denise, Sean and Graham aren't.
Okay, I mean, one of the effects would be, would discount some of the people who are currently on this committee
because they're not on Finance Committee.
But, okay, but thank you for your point all the same, Councillor Graham.
There's no reason why it shouldn't be at least considered.
And we'll, yes.
Okay, Councillor Grimston.
If you were to consider it, consider putting general purposes before finance.
Because the problem is that we are sitting around for a CNA DA on the assumption that one day the other committee will finish.
But it does mean a vast amount.
I mean, I'd prefer it stay as it is.
But if it is going to change, don't leave us hanging around to another point.
Okay, I don't want to cut anybody off, but this point is getting a bit, it's quite arcane.
I was just going to say that I think Councillor Grimson's suggestion is perfectly reasonable.
I also note that in the past, not under this administration but the previous administration,
the General Purposes Committee was actually held at about 5 or 6pm on the night of the
full Council, with the full Council following on.
So it could be earlier and we would be happy to comment on that.
It's just much easier for us if it's a relatively short agenda.
And I appreciate that it was moved to separate night because there were lots of constitutional
changes that were expected to be coming through.
But we're not currently in that position.
So just for the convenience of members and officers, I think if we could find an accommodation,
that would be good.
Can we – in that case, we've had –
All, all, all.
Thank you very much everybody.
That was a very enjoyable and interesting meeting.
Meeting closed.